My Lyman 49 just arrived


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-Gadsden-
March 12, 2013, 08:17 PM
see you guys in a week or so!

Learning about all this stuff is pretty darn fun :cool:

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boommer
March 13, 2013, 04:21 AM
YES NOW read it 3 times over and then ask ? not being a jerk here but read it and then ask !!

ArchAngelCD
March 13, 2013, 07:19 AM
Don't forget to read the front of the book instead of jumping right to the load data. (but it sounds like you are already doing that)

You bought a good load manual...

red rick
March 13, 2013, 06:47 PM
I got mine 2 weeks ago and have read it twice now while I am waiting on my press. I also read Lyman's Pistol & Revolver 3rd ed. My kit is coming with the Lee book. I might get the Hornady 8th or 9th and Speer #14 while I am still waiting for the press. The backorder date has been changed from 03/08/13 to May.

Reloadron
March 13, 2013, 07:29 PM
Wandering through the new Cabela's grand opening in Ohio I saw a 49th edition hard bound so I tossed it in my basket. The Lyman manuals are a great wealth of information.

Ron

BYJO4
March 13, 2013, 08:27 PM
You got a great loading manual to start with. After reading it several times, you need to get several others for cross references.

thomis
March 14, 2013, 09:33 AM
You bought a good load manual...

Yes, fundamentally one of the best. The fundamentals are everything.

glider1
March 14, 2013, 09:47 AM
My favorite because it has a lot of loads for lead. Sierra is just about all jacketed loads. I picked up the new Lymans at bass pro, 29 bucks. I wish somone had a manual dedicated to lead bullits since 95% of what I load is lead handgun bullits.

powell&hyde
March 14, 2013, 09:54 AM
Get the Lyman Cast Bullet book which is dedicated to cast only. I have #3 and #4 books, great info in them.

glider1
March 14, 2013, 09:57 AM
Thanks , I'll do that.

-Gadsden-
March 14, 2013, 08:40 PM
Book is great so far -- Looking forward to getting a few other manuals to compare/contrast.

When Lyman gives data for a 120gn lead bullet (#356242), does this data correspond for a 124gn bullet that you might buy at an online retailer?

bds
March 15, 2013, 08:58 AM
When Lyman gives data for a 120gn lead bullet, does this data correspond for a 124gn bullet that you might buy at an online retailer?
Yes, but there are reloading variables to take into account (bullet nose shape/ogive, bullet seating depth, OAL used, etc. - more on this below).


I have found most jacketed bullets can vary by 1+ grains and I use load data for 124/125 bullets interchangeably when using OAL longer than published.

I have found most plated bullets can vary by 1-3+ grains and I use load data for 124/125 bullets interchangeably when using OAL longer than published.

I have found many lead bullets can vary by 3-5+ grains and use load data for 120-125 bullets with some consideration. If I was pushing 125 gr bullet at near max load data, I may do my initial work up to .1-.2+ gr below max charge depending on the bullet seating depth.



http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173742&d=1350888604

Here's an example.

When I used 125 gr lead RN bullets with a step like Dardas/ZCast bullets shown on the right in the above picture, W231/HP-38 Hodgdon load data (http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp) for 125 lead CN bullet and 1.125" OAL worked well.
125 gr LCN W231/HP-38 OAL 1.125" Start 3.9 gr (1009 fps) 25,700 CUP - Max 4.4 gr (1086 fps) 31,200 CUP
1999-2005 Winchester load data (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=159609&stc=1&d=1329800605)
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=176515&stc=1&d=1356273892

When I switched to Missouri 125 gr RN, I got leading at 4.2-4.4 gr charges during my powder work up. I initially wondered if the transition from 22-24 BHN to softer 18 BHN made that much difference but found the real cause with the bearing surface and bullet seating depth.

If you look at the comparison picture above, the shiny part of the bullet base represents the bearing surface that rides the rifling (except for the stepped base of two RN bullet on the right). As you can see, Missouri RN bullet has shorter/rounder nose profile (ogive) than Dardas/ZCast RN bullets with longer bearing surface (BTW, Dardas sells both nose profiles). During my barrel drop test, I found I needed to use shorter OAL of 1.080"-1.100" for the Missouri bullet so the bearing surface of the bullet won't hit the start of rifling.

Using shorter OAL with different nose profile (ogive) caused the bullet base to be seated deeper in the case neck which would increase the chamber pressures. Lower 3.8 - 4.0 gr charges indicated by 1999-2005 Winchester load data did not cause leading.

Here's the seating depth calculations I used (OAL - bullet length = bullet seating depth). For calculation purposes, I used 1.125" as OAL for the CN bullet (.620" in length) and 1.080" OAL for the RN bullet (.565" in length) - but always measure the bullet lengths as bullets from different company may vary in OAL (case in point, SWC bullets from MBC and Dardas on the left in above picture).
1.125" - .620" = .505" bullet seat depth for the CN
1.080" - .565" = .515" bullet seat depth for the RN
So based on this example, bullet base got seated .010" deeper with the Missouri RN bullet with 1.080" OAL as compared to CN at 1.125" OAL.


So why use one nose type over another?

Well, longer the bearing surface, more bullet base to ride the rifling to rotate and stabilize the bullet in flight. More specific to lead loads, IME, longer bearing surface helps with sealing the bullet to barrel (obturation) to produce more consistent chamber pressures which translates to more consistent muzzle velocities which produces greater accuracy. Another bonus? I can use less powder charge and still produce accurate loads. :D

So why use stepped RN with shorter bearing surface over shorter/rounder Missouri bullet with longer bearing surface? That would depend on the barrels used. My aftermarket Lone Wolf 40-9 9mm conversion barrels for Glock 22/27 were reamed at the factory and allows for longer OAL for the barrel drop test. The new Lone Wolf conversion barrel I got for the Glock 23 has much quicker start of rifling with almost no leade like my Sig 1911 TacPac barrel.

Consequently, I needed to seat the Missouri 125 gr RN bullet to much shorter OAL to pass the barrel drop test and at the shorter OAL, bullet base would compress the 4.0 gr Promo/Red Dot powder charge I usually use (for 1.080" OAL, 4.0 gr of Promo is the max charge before I start compressing the powder charge - The shorter OAL would even compress the lighter 3.6 gr charge of Promo). Using the stepped RN bullets from Dardas/ZCast with 1.120" OAL passed the barrel drop test and did not compress the 3.6-4.0 gr Promo/Red Dot powder charges.

BTW, The quicker start of rifling/almost no leade Lone Wolf barrel ABSOLUTELY provides faster chamber pressure build up and better obturation as even after several hundred rounds of shooting, the barrel is shiny clean with no smearing even at the chamber end! Life is good. :D

-Gadsden-
March 15, 2013, 10:09 PM
that's an incredibly thorough response -- thank you very much. I'll be bookmarking this so I can come back and reference it repeatedly!

Certaindeaf
March 15, 2013, 10:15 PM
Just wait'll you get a Lyman 55!























































http://www.trackofthewolf.com/imgPart/lyman-55_0.jpg

bds
March 15, 2013, 10:21 PM
When I used 125 gr lead RN bullets with a step like Dardas/ZCast bullets ... wondered if the transition from 22-24 BHN to softer 18 BHN made that much difference
I want to clarify that 22-24 BHN stepped 125 gr RN bullets came locally and not from Dardas/ZCast (Dardas advertises 16 BHN and ZCast 14-16 BHN).

Hondo 60
March 16, 2013, 01:51 AM
-Gadsden-
Welcome to the addict... oh, I mean hobby, ya that's it ... hobby :rolleyes:
You'll LOVE the wealth of knowledge here - and FAST responses!

red rick mentioned Lyman's Pistol & Revolver 3rd ed.

If you have #49, don't bother with the Pistol book.
It's just a duplication.
I wish someone had warned me about it before I wasted my money.
(I bought the Pistol book - it's good, just a duplication)

-Gadsden-
March 17, 2013, 09:52 PM
Ok good call. I'm on a budget :p

just bought the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd Edition from Midway, should be here in a week or two! :)

-Gadsden-
March 24, 2013, 11:33 PM
Got the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd Edition on Friday, and I've read it pretty thoroughly. I plan to get a Lee Challenger Press so it's helpful to have some Lee-specific information. I also prefer the Lee style of writing better.

One thing I did notice is that comparing the Lee with the Lyman, for a given caliber and bullet weight, the powders listed varies.

For instance, in 9mm loading, the Lyman shows essentially the same powders used for jacketed bullets as with lead, while the Lee lists numerous powders that are listed for jacketed but not for lead, and visa versa.

Can this just be chalked up to a. the manual author's preference for a given powder with a given bullet and caliber, b. not enough space, time, resources to try every powder, or maybe a combination of the above? Perhaps there are some branding issues, with certain authors giving preference to this powder over that powder?

KansasSasquatch
March 25, 2013, 01:14 AM
Lee basically compiles everyone else's data for basic bullet styles. Lyman did their own testing and it probably was too much burden to test EVERY bullet/powder combo.

-Gadsden-
March 25, 2013, 08:20 PM
So omission can't necessarily be construed as disapproval? I just find the discrepancy between lead and jacketed interesting. This is fun!

Maj Dad
March 25, 2013, 08:41 PM
Check out Cast Boolits - a plumb veritable lead mine of info for galenaphilics... ;)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

Hondo 60
March 25, 2013, 11:43 PM
^^^^^ huh?^^^^^

From Google: "Your search - define:galenaphilics - did not match any documents."

(also tried Webster's Dictionary & got the following) - The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary.

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