Colorado: Ballot Initiative Proposed To Repeal The Idiotic Magazine Ban


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Justin
March 13, 2013, 01:04 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/rss/ci_22776136

Colorado ballot proposal aimed at undoing ammunition magazine limits
POSTED: 03/12/2013 06:51:17 PM MDT
UPDATED: 03/12/2013 09:38:35 PM MDTBy Lynn Bartels and Kurtis Lee
The Denver Post

Two Littleton men have filed a proposed ballot measure that seeks to undo proposed legislation that would limit ammunition magazines of more than 15 rounds.

The measure was filed Tuesday, one day after the Democratic-controlled Senate passed a bill limiting magazine rounds.

Tim LeVier and J.T. Davis want voters to decide the issue in the 2014 election. Neither could be reached for comment.



Read more: Colorado ballot proposal aimed at undoing ammunition magazine limits - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/rss/ci_22776136#ixzz2NOR5x117
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When Democrats hand you lemons, freeze those things and turn 'em into a weapon.

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nwilliams
March 13, 2013, 01:36 AM
Good! Let the people decide!

I'm honestly not sure if it would be repealed if it went up for a vote. Apparently enough people in Colorado decided to elect these anti-gun politicians into office to make decisions on behalf of the people, that says a lot. Colorado has one of the highest rankings in the western half of the country by the Brady bunch, I have a feeling their ranking is going to go up significantly thanks to these new gun control laws being put into effect.

Let's hope if a vote is put forawrd that the people of Colorado can join together and fight these ridiculous new laws and show the nation that it's still a State where the RKBA still means something to the people that live there!

Jake L
March 13, 2013, 01:51 AM
Somewhere I saw some recent polling showing that over 65% of Coloradans were opposed to the magazine restrictions... Lets see if I can pull it out of Google...

Nope. I found a Huffpo article citing a local news poll in which 85% of coloradans favored increased gun control, and 61% favored banning semi automatics, and 61% favored banning "magazine clips" over 10 rounds. I think that poll was not even close to unbiased... But it does show that among those favoring increased gun control, only 3/4 want mag restrictions. So my best guess is that they could win a popular vote to remove mag restrictions.

Bobson
March 13, 2013, 02:13 AM
I'm a bit confused by the whole issue. I drove through CO today (I-25 N from NM up to WY), and saw more Pro-Republican, Anti-Dem, and "Don't tread on me" banners on property and CO vehicles than I've seen in over two years of living in AZ.

Praying for CO and the good people who live there.

Zak Smith
March 13, 2013, 02:15 AM
The anti-gun agenda has awakened a sleeping giant.

bds
March 13, 2013, 02:23 AM
The anti-gun agenda has awakened a sleeping giant.
Yes!

HOOfan_1
March 13, 2013, 02:34 AM
I'm a bit confused by the whole issue. I drove through CO today (I-25 N from NM up to WY), and saw more Pro-Republican, Anti-Dem, and "Don't tread on me" banners on property and CO vehicles than I've seen in over two years of living in AZ.

Praying for CO and the good people who live there.

I guess it depends on through what parts you were driving.

If you look at the map posted in this thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=707788&highlight=colorado showing the voting trend in the last election...red dominates the map pretty much except for the North East and Pacific coast of California. Heck, look at Virginia...all but far Northern Virginia, some of tidewater and the Charlottesville area are red...yet with the tiny tiny bit of blue...Obama still carried the state.

If you drive through most of Virginia, you will see plenty of NRA stickers and don't tread on me stickers...heck I even saw an ARFCOM sticker on a truck just the other day. You get into deep inner city Richmond, Tidewater and Northern Virginia though and you are getting into gun grabber territory.

Dr.Rob
March 13, 2013, 04:00 AM
They picked a fight, cheated to win and we are going to sock them while they are gloating.

HorseSoldier
March 13, 2013, 04:36 AM
That's priceless -- put a gun control referendum on the ballot during midterms. That'll fuel pro-2A voter turnout in a way that even trying to vote the bastards out won't. It goes without saying that it is in the interest of pro-2A Americans everywhere to see the Colorado Democratic Party become a definitional example of pyrrhic victory in passing this current legislation.

HOWARD J
March 13, 2013, 05:57 AM
This country has gone Obama
He will continue his crusade to strip all gun from honest Americans.
It is just a matter of time until he finds his next excuse to start the handgun grab.
Be prepared for a long fight---it will get worse.

BigBore44
March 13, 2013, 06:15 AM
And instilled in it a will to fight.... I hope. Maybe this has given the people who stayed at home on Election Day a good enough reason to get off their butts and vote next time.

locnload
March 13, 2013, 07:13 AM
While I personally welcome such a ballot initiative, I'm affraid that most of the population just doesn't get it. I have talked to a number of people during this ordeal, and even many who are pro freedom, just not much into guns, are totally unaware of what is being done here.They know nothing about the situation with Magpul and the loss of jobs. If they own a six shot 357 Magnum revolver they don't get the whole fuss about 17 rnd mags vs 15 rnd mags. People that work for the Division of Wildlife have no clue about the very real possibility of a massive boyecot by out of state hunters, a very large part of DOW's funding. And if this ballot initiative goes down in flames, Katie bar the door because the libs will come after gun rights with renewed energy. As the saying goes, "beware of what you wish for, you may get it". We would need a real strong plan to educate the general public enough to pass this, and don't count on the media that John Q. public watches or reads to help inform them. :banghead:

AlexanderA
March 13, 2013, 07:39 AM
If you drive through most of Virginia, you will see plenty of NRA stickers and don't tread on me stickers... You get into deep inner city Richmond, Tidewater and Northern Virginia though and you are getting into gun grabber territory.

This is a pattern that's repeated throughout most of the country. Unfortunately, "trees don't vote." Antigun sentiment is concentrated in urban/suburban areas, but that's where the people are. The pro-gun side needs to make guns more relevant (in a good way) to those urban dwellers.

Queen_of_Thunder
March 13, 2013, 08:06 AM
Magpul and other gun type businesses need to pack up and leave CO. This is the only response that has a chance to stop this Bull. Colorado may be lost but the rest can be saved if such action is taken.

akv3g4n
March 13, 2013, 08:06 AM
Good luck guys. I'm pulling for you. It's just wrong that it has to come to a vote on whether or not to let the citizens of Colorado exercise a right explicitly stated in the Bill of Rights.

rtroha
March 13, 2013, 08:49 AM
I wonder how much in campaign funds are needed to get a state-wide initiative passed and to counter the negative publicity that the Main Stream Media will generate? If Bloomberg decides to dump a few million into the anti campaign, it could be rather costly.

I hope they have considered the financial aspects of this initiative.

Outlaw Man
March 13, 2013, 08:57 AM
That's priceless -- put a gun control referendum on the ballot during midterms. That'll fuel pro-2A voter turnout in a way that even trying to vote the bastards out won't.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Good luck, guys. I'm glad to see you're not wasting any time.

CoRoMo
March 13, 2013, 11:01 AM
It will ONLY work in a midterm election; lower turnout except for those here who've been angered over the behavior of our legislature. I think we have one shot and one shot only. It could bring out the numbers we need to have the entire election go our way, just like the marijuana ballot measure brought out the numbers needed for this mess to begin.

I would crawl out of my skin upon hearing that the majority of Coloradoans who went to the voting booth, voted 'NO' on a pro-gun ballot initiative to undo what happened over the past week. It would kill all hope I have for this state and ultimately the nation.

I hope it is worded efficiently and effectively, and I hope all the millions of dollars that Bloomberg spends for TV and radio ads against it fall on deaf ears.

Queen_of_Thunder
March 13, 2013, 11:05 AM
2014 is too long to wait to take advantage of those upset with these recent actions. Simply,people forget.

rondog
March 13, 2013, 11:07 AM
Let THE PEOPLE vote on gun control issues?!?! Say it ain't so! I can tell you how I'd bet on that outcome, and I can also tell you I'd bet that it wouldn't make any difference to the Commies running the show.

michaelbsc
March 13, 2013, 11:28 AM
We would need a real strong plan to educate the general public enough to pass this, and don't count on the media that John Q. public watches or reads to help inform them.

This has been the weakness of our strategy for two decades. If not longer.

longknife12
March 13, 2013, 11:33 AM
OK, whacha want me to do to help?
Dan

zxcvbob
March 13, 2013, 11:43 AM
The anti-gun agenda has awakened a sleeping giant...

And filled him with a terrible resolve? Let's hope so.

MachIVshooter
March 13, 2013, 11:47 AM
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the democrats are going to find out they overreached on this.

I have been encouraged by the number of comments in social media I've seen the last couple weeks to the tune of "I voted for Hick, thought he would be good for the state. Won't make that mistake again".

Bloomberg and other elitist East coast liberals being associated with this will actually work in our favor; with the exception of the true progressives, the people of Colorado on both sides do not like the idea of outsiders influencing the state, especially not billionaires with agendas.

We play that angle, and the job killing aspect. We make it less about guns and more about Colorado being run by Coloradoans, and keeping fellow Coloradoans employed. This state actually faired pretty well through the recession, but the democrats are doing everything they can to sink the local economy to the national average. They control both houses and the governorship, so we can very easily pin 100% of the blame for everything bad that happens on them.

Zak Smith
March 13, 2013, 12:19 PM
Businesses may leave in order to continue business operations, but it is wrong for us to abandon our state to Bloomberg, Biden, an the other scumbags who pushed this legislation. It's too awesome of a state to leave to the socialists.

We need to keep this "anger" and tap into it for a long-term effort. Every ballot we need something on it that's "for us". Their game is they only need it to pass once, we need to play that same game.

mrvco
March 13, 2013, 12:59 PM
I assume that this will not be the only 2A related ballot initiative.

What is the process for reconciling multiple initiatives?... especially if you have a specific initiative like this one and a broader initiative like the one suggested to not allow the state to be more 2A restrictive than the Feds.

SaxonPig
March 13, 2013, 06:06 PM
The ballot initiative is really the only way the people can have their say. I wish all states (and the U.S. as a whole) allowed for initiatives.

Good luck.

BearGriz
March 13, 2013, 06:39 PM
+1 on this being great for getting 2nd amendment voters to turn out.

Even polls and articles that show 2nd amendment supporters to be in the minority (depending on the demographic/state, political climate when the question was asked, and definitely depending on the way the question was asked!), these same studies also show that we are formidable in other ways.

We are likely to be single-issue voters who have the memories of elephants. Overall those who support gun rights feel much more strongly about gun rights than those who support gun restrictions feel about gun restrictions. Elections are often about turnout, and depending on your location, you could win an election with 30% of the population supporting your initiative, but with all of that 30% turning out.

Grassman
March 13, 2013, 07:40 PM
Contact the Colorado governor.

http://www.colorado.gov/govhdir/requests/opinion-leg.html

MErl
March 13, 2013, 07:48 PM
contacting Hick has always been useless. These will be law, time to start the next steps. He'll probably wait for the one that went to committee and sign them all at once though.

Is there more detail on how this ballot will work? how signatures will be collected? I'll be happy to help collect them.

Coltdriver
March 13, 2013, 09:15 PM
Zak has it right.

There is a lot of energy out there right now. Two recall petitions have been initiated. I am pitching in to go get signatures in Colorado Springs.

The other recall petition is in Durango.

It is also relatively easy to get proposed changes to our constitution on the ballot.

We will see what happens.

mrvco
March 13, 2013, 09:58 PM
contacting Hick has always been useless. These will be law, time to start the next steps. He'll probably wait for the one that went to committee and sign them all at once though.

Is there more detail on how this ballot will work? how signatures will be collected? I'll be happy to help collect them.
I got a note back from one of his staffers saying that the governor doesn't write the legislation, he just signs it. And if I have a problem with the legislation that I should contact the bill's sponsors :banghead:

ThorinNNY
March 13, 2013, 10:13 PM
Hope you folks in Colorado can defeat those magazine restrictions. We`re trying hard to repeal, not amend the NY (un) SAFE act here in NY.

bds
March 14, 2013, 01:23 AM
Be prepared for a long fight
Fight?

This is WAR!

MachIVshooter
March 14, 2013, 03:22 AM
I'm sure my perception is a bit biased, given my circles and location, but even considering that, I would say that Coloradoans are just plain pissed. I have never seen this much energy, this much fury over legislative activity.

I think in a couple years, a decent number of democrats will be able to tell you what it feels like to stick your head in the hornet's nest.

Justin
March 14, 2013, 09:16 AM
Here's a link to a copy of the proposed ballot initiative:

http://putittothepeople.blogspot.com/


MAR
13
No Ammo Restrictions

Proposed Constitutional Amendment for the State of Colorado
To Establish a Right of the People to Purchase and Possess
High Capacity Ammunition Storage and Feeding Devices
To be Numbered as Article II, Section 32


Be it Enacted by the people of the state of Colorado:


Preamble


WHEREAS, the people of the state of Colorado previously held the right to purchase and possess ammunition storage and feeding devices without limitation or restriction with regards to size and capacity; and


WHEREAS, a “grandfather clause” in the state of Colorado legislation HB1224 exempts existing owners of high capacity ammunition storage and feeding devices to continuously possess these devices after the July 1, 2013 effective date; and


WHEREAS, state of Colorado legislation HB1224 is effectively unenforceable due to inconsistent national laws and lack of control features in the manufacture of such devices in other jurisdictions; now therefore


In the constitution of the state of Colorado, Article II, add section (32) as follows:


Section 32. Gun Magazines – no limitation or restriction

No law, except by a vote of the people, shall restrict or limit the right of the people to purchase and/or possess ammunition storage and feeding devices of any size or capacity.


from and after the date of the official declaration of the vote by proclamation of the governor, but not later than thirty days after the votes have been canvassed by the secretary of state.


Note that this wouldn't necessarily repeal the law, but it would require any magazine capacity limitations to be put to a public vote.

It's not as hard line as I would like, but at this point I'm all for anything that will take the teeth out of 1224.

almostfree
March 14, 2013, 10:12 AM
I wonder why they didn't just word it to preclude any magazine restrictions at all. Will it really garner that much more popular support by leaving it open to future magazine restriction ballot initiatives?

John3921
March 14, 2013, 10:23 AM
Couple random thoughts - I think it's good that the mfg's in the area have let their views be known - OTOH - it could backfire. If everyone pulls out then whats left are anti's. State is gone for good.

I wonder if those of us in other areas can help out shooters in the afflicted zones. I'm thinking of magazine swaps or something. Lets say I have a couple 15 round mags for my handgun - and someone in CO has a couple similar condition 18's they need to get rid of to be compliant. Instead of glutting the market on fleabay and possibly taking a bath on the sale - maybe we could set up a swap site? I'll trade you straight across my 2 15's for your 2 18's, for example.

CoRoMo
March 14, 2013, 02:46 PM
I wish the wording was simpler, I wish it directly nullified 1224, and I wish it didn't leave the door open for ballot initiatives to amend out state constitution with gun control.

I expect there will be some gun owners, however few, that would vote 'NO' to that initiative for whatever reasons.

Zak Smith
March 14, 2013, 03:53 PM
That initiative seems like it addresses the future.. we could have an additional one to change the status quo

Kiln
March 14, 2013, 04:12 PM
The problem is that in lots of deep blue states and large cities, people generally favor gun control.

Why? Because they're constantly told by politicians and news outlets that gun control is making them safer.

Gun buybacks are getting guns off the streets, magazine capacities are limiting the damage of drive by shootings, assault weapons bans are helping take dangerous weapons out of the hands of gangs. Those are all the sort of things you'll hear from news agencies in California and New York.

jrdolall
March 14, 2013, 04:47 PM
There are a HUGE number of people who are pro-gun but really don't see a "need" for assault rifles and 30 round magazines. It has become a necessity for one-on-one training to let people know what is going on because they only know what they see on TV. I have been successful in changing the minds of at least 5 people who believed this way but i failed with one who just could see no real "need" for a 100 round drum.

We are all guilty of thinking that because a person owns a gun they believe we should have the right to own whatever we want. I guess we could wait until they hear the truth from MSNBC or CNN.

MRH
March 14, 2013, 06:11 PM
My personal opinion is that a ballot measure would spell doom for firearms and hunting in Colorado. The majority of voters are in the Denver Metro area. They are anti-gun and anti-hunting. Take for example their vote to dictate to the Division of Wildlife (now Parks and Wildlife) on how to manage hunting of Lions and Bears in the state. The result has been a decimation of the deer population. I fear that all our gun rights will disappear if put to their vote.

I would really prefer to have more conservative people in our legislature. The way to do that is recall the anti-gun rascals now in position, and elect the ones who will protect our rights.

Mike

ASCTLC
March 14, 2013, 06:23 PM
You know, there's a butt load of anger over the mag limit bill but HB1229 has the roots to confiscation! Guys, I don't like that limit on mag capacity either but while they dangle that off to the side we have mandatory documentation being shoved down our throats with the universal registration bill. Your purchases are being recorded for the govt to use against you. Who the hell cares if it's not the Fed govt that is keeping those records?? The states are doing it for them and now CO is going to ensure no gun gets by being documented.

I'll practice harder to mitigate the mag capacity ban but there isn't squat I can do to overcome the registration documentation about to be captured.

I'm frustrated at the concerted focus on the lesser of the evils being shoved upon us...

Andy

MErl
March 14, 2013, 08:05 PM
we're pissed at 1229 too but don't know that the final form will be. That one also has much wider support, even among gun owners.

Arbo
March 14, 2013, 08:08 PM
You know, there's a butt load of anger over the mag limit bill but HB1229 has the roots to confiscation! Guys, I don't like that limit on mag capacity either but while they dangle that off to the side we have mandatory documentation being shoved down our throats with the universal registration bill. Your purchases are being recorded for the govt to use against you. Who the hell cares if it's not the Fed govt that is keeping those records?? The states are doing it for them and now CO is going to ensure no gun gets by being documented.

I'll practice harder to mitigate the mag capacity ban but there isn't squat I can do to overcome the registration documentation about to be captured.

I'm frustrated at the concerted focus on the lesser of the evils being shoved upon us...

Andy
They don't really know who has what now... so as people who own guns continue to sell and trade amongst others they have been shooting with for years, the government isn't going to have a clue.

1229, for the most part is totally unenforceable.

MRH
March 14, 2013, 11:57 PM
The proposed CO initiative does not address transfer of magazines. HB 1224 would still prohibit the transfer of a magazine you possessed. You could own it, but it dies with you.

I suggested an amendment for HB 1224 to have a phrase allowing transfer of magazines (either by sale to someone, or as a bona fide gift to go along with guns transferred to relatives). That did not get anywhere.


Mike

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