Unnecessary product for an unnecessary need?


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BBQJOE
March 13, 2013, 03:34 PM
I went to a local gun store yesterday just to see what was up with primers.
All they had was large and small magnum pistol.

Now really, how much more primer is needed to set a magnum load of powder to roasting?
I'm also willing to bet that a magnum pistol primer isn't going to increase pressure by much.
Most of my loads esp in .44 are pretty much cowboy's. I generally load 6.1 unique, or 231.

After thinking about this some, I probably should have snagged them.

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GCBurner
March 13, 2013, 03:46 PM
I think the difference is mostly a thicker primer cup, to handle higher pressure loads. I don't load anything that REQUIRES magnum primers, but I've used them in a pinch with no problems.

jerkface11
March 13, 2013, 03:48 PM
If you're trying to light a max load of H110 you'll need that magnum primer.

kingmt
March 13, 2013, 03:52 PM
I try not to use them because they cost more. No other reason not to.

rsrocket1
March 13, 2013, 04:16 PM
CCI SPM's cost exactly the same as the SPP's and perform just fine (I don't load at max). If there are no SPP's and no SRP's available, I don't hesitate buying SPM's.

I've not seen any place where magnum primers cost more than regular primers.

jerkface11
March 13, 2013, 04:21 PM
If you do use magnum primers instead of standard make sure you work up your load again.

kingmt
March 13, 2013, 04:21 PM
The Tulammo at Powder Valley.

45lcshooter
March 13, 2013, 04:25 PM
Magnums are for heavier loads. More powder to burn in a smaller space, needs more fire, to burn and create pressure so push the bullet.

Less oxygen in the case needs hotter spark to completely burn the powder.

USSR
March 13, 2013, 04:48 PM
Now really, how much more primer is needed to set a magnum load of powder to roasting?

It's not whether the load is magnum load, or even if the cartridge designation has the word "Magnum" tacked onto the end of it, magnum primers are for specific, hard to ignite powders (usually ball powders).

Don

BBQJOE
March 13, 2013, 05:02 PM
It's not whether the load is magnum load, or even if the cartridge designation has the word "Magnum" tacked onto the end of it, magnum primers are for specific, hard to ignite powders (usually ball powders).

Thanks Don, that makes more sense than anything.

ReloaderFred
March 13, 2013, 05:17 PM
A high speed photograph of a magnum vs. a standard primer explosion shows the magnum primer with a longer, hotter flame. As USSR noted, they are mainly for igniting hard to light powders, and there is a difference between the two. They are also sometimes required for reliable ignition in extremely cold conditions.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Cosmoline
March 13, 2013, 05:39 PM
I use them for 2F in cartridges. That extra flame helps get the powder going.

Lost Sheep
March 13, 2013, 09:44 PM
Magnums are for heavier loads. More powder to burn in a smaller space, needs more fire, to burn and create pressure so push the bullet.

Less oxygen in the case needs hotter spark to completely burn the powder.
I always thought (most of) the oxygen was provided by the nitrates in the powder itself.

Lost Sheep

USSR
March 13, 2013, 09:51 PM
I always thought (most of) the oxygen was provided by the nitrates in the powder itself.

Yes, the oxygen is in the powder and is not dependent upon oxygen being in the case.

Don

Ditchtiger
March 13, 2013, 09:55 PM
I always thought (most of) the oxygen was provided by the nitrates in the powder itself.

Lost Sheep
Yep.

Ditchtiger
March 13, 2013, 10:00 PM
I have started using LPM's in my .308's with a light charge and lead bullets
so as to save the LRP's for full power loads.
Has worked fine.

BruceB
March 14, 2013, 06:03 AM
In the market conditions we face today, ANY primer is a valuable commodity, It's well-worth making the effort to make whatever load modifications that may be necessary. Magnum primers will work fine in almost any conceivable application....a PRIMER is a PRIMER!!!

I am truly puzzled by people who refuse to pay an extra ten or even twenty bucks for a thousand primers, as compared to "what I paid last year". This amounts to one or two PENNIES per loaded round! Really.... are you going to stop loading and
shooting because of such a miniscule amount of money???

"Well... I have no primers, and I can't shoot any of my $X,000 gun collection, but I SHOWED THEM RIP-OFF JASPERS, BY GUM! AIN'T NOBODY GONNA GET *ME* FOR $50 PRIMERS!!!"

SO, instead of facing the facts of the situation, you'd rather abandon the hobby by refusing to pay those extra pennies per primer? The sense of perspective seems lacking.

There's an old saying about cutting off one's nose because you don't like the way your face looks.....seems to fit rather well, when one is actually LOOKING at primers on a shelf....and then walks away empty-handed.

glider1
March 14, 2013, 06:43 AM
There are places that are selling primers for the same price they were charging a year ago. I see know reason to let the gougers get to me. If the price had gone up everywhere then ya do what ya gotta do but that isn't the case. Seems like things are starting to ease up alittle.

jmorris
March 14, 2013, 08:58 AM
Winchester must think like you, they used to make two different pistol primers, standard and magnum. Now they just make one for standard or magnum. I still have 5k of the old white box magnum primers, some day I may check the difference between the two over a chronograph using the same load.

SlamFire1
March 14, 2013, 09:47 AM
I have had troubles igniting ball powders in cold weather. For where I live, it is considered cold when the temp's are in the 40's.

For a handgun I was shooting AA#9 with WSP primers in a 357. The pistol had a very old and used mainspring. I got squibs, hangfires. While it was primarily a mainspring issue, because it went away with a new mainspring, this made a big impression on me.

I also had severe hangfires with a 35 Whelen in cold weather with AA2520, a ball powder, and mild hangfires with slower burning stick powders . I replaced the mainspring and sized the rounds to minimum chamber length, and went to fast to medium stick powders. Hangfires went away.

I had lots of misfires in my Kimber M82 Government 22 LR target rimfire rifle in December smallbore matches. And so have a number of other shooters. I went and bought new mainsprings, distributed them to other shooters, and our cold weather misfires have gone away.

Pictures on the disassembly of a Kimber M82 bolt: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=491828

So I learned a couple of lessons, ignition in cold weather is a severe test of the energy delivery of an ignition system . Marginal ignition systems will misfire given weak mainsprings and weak firing pin strikes. The powder technology also makes a difference. I have no doubt that magnum primers are a good idea if you plan to hunt in extreme cold, or just cold, and are using ball powders.

BruceB
March 14, 2013, 10:19 AM
Slamfire, amigo.....

No offense intended, but Mama mia, you have NO IDEA what the term "cold weather" means.

I lived for over fifty years in Canada, and 34 years of that total were spent in the Northwest Territories, i,e,: the Arctic. The lake in front of my house froze in September and wasn't ice-free again until June. We hunted, fished, skied etc down to about MINUS 35 degrees....that is sixty-odd degrees below freezing. At forty below zero and colder, we considered the risks to be not worthwhile for non-essential activities.

My point is this: ALL my ammunition was handloaded, and even my semi-auto rifles (FAL, Garand, M-14, AR180 etc etc) gave perfectly reliable performance with ball powders and regular primers. I used a lot of 748 and Ball-C 2, and had no difficulties. Primers were CCI200 (and sometimes 250s) and all the ammo was reliable (.223s used standard CCI small rifle primers.)

I once cold-soaked an AR180 (.223) and its fully-loaded 40-round magazine for six hours at -40* F. I chambered the first round, and proceeded to fire all 40 with no glitches. That magazine had been loaded for six months, with just this sort of test in mind. I was pleased!

jmorris
March 14, 2013, 10:56 AM
I almost exclusively use ball powders in my progressive reloading and also haven't had cold weather problems. Then again the 20's are about as cold as it ever gets around here.

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