What do the LEO members of THR think of the potential AWB?


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BigBore44
March 13, 2013, 10:35 PM
Been hearing/reading a fair amount of talk about LEO's and their potential support for the proposed AWB (military style weapons and mag restrictions mainly). I would just like to hear from LEO members on here and what their opinions are about the proposed ban.

I'm doing this for my own study. Basically I'm looking for; you support/don't support the ban, and why you do/don't. Doesn't have to be a complex answer either way. But the more you want to say, the more info I will have.

Thanks in advance.....

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pat701
March 13, 2013, 10:45 PM
Retired Chicago Police here. 90% of CPD is Not in favor of a AWB!! 90% of CPD is in favor for carried concealed. Don't believe all read read about the CPD being anti-gun;)

HorseSoldier
March 13, 2013, 10:51 PM
The support they claim from the LE community for an AWB tends to come from chiefs and other heads of agencies who are at-will political appointees by anti-gun politicians.

I don't see any personal evidence for support among the rank and file (or command staff), but then again I live in Alaska. I don't know how opinions might trend in a place like, say, NYC, where gun culture has been marginalized and restricted so long that a lot of NYPD officers probably had zero gun background before hiring on with that agency, etc.

On the other hand, I have met several officers from a couple different Massachussetts jurisdictions that fall in the general Boston metropolitan area, I guess (as far as I understand MA geography at that level) and none of them were fans of gun control or their state/local gun laws.

Sarge1982
March 13, 2013, 10:54 PM
As a 35-year cop in Texas, I am opposed to efforts to enact the AWB, to limit magazine size, and to create any type of national firearms registry that would result from the Senate's plan for universal background checks.

Liberals would be happy if everyone was forced to relinquish their firearms but that really would only impact the law-abiding citizens. Criminals don't buy their guns where they have to have a background check. They steal them or buy them from someone who steals them.

And crooks don't buy high-dollar, high-quality weapons; they may steal them but they don't buy them. I pay for high quality weapons because I want to own and collect them and pass them on to my sons and grandchildren.

Liberals are not interested in facts. They are only interested in furthering their anti-gun agenda which is to limit the freedom of good, upstanding citizens who have no intention of every using a gun for a criminal reason.

More effort needs to be put into addressing the problem of people with mental illness gaining access to firearms. That is where I believe most of the effort needs to be made (along with enforcing the laws that are currently enacted). The people involved in most, if not all, of the horrendous acts of gun violence are people that were (are) mentally disturbed and should not have been allowed to have access to firearms.

The cops I work with are opposed to AWB because it is not about assault weapons or high capacity magazines; it is about restricting freedom.

I am grateful to live in Texas where common sense is still found in abundance.

Billy Shears
March 13, 2013, 10:58 PM
I think it's offensive. I've been a police officer for 12 years, and a detective for 9. Most of the officers I know well also oppose it. Then again, most of the officers I am friendly enough with to hang around with outside of work are "gun people" themselves. Lots of cops aren't. Among those, support for the AWB is more common. I know one, cop, who was in my academy class, washed out because he couldn't shoot well enough, went to the sheriff's department for a few years, and practiced a lot on his own, then came back and passed through the academy two years later. He's one of those cops who just barely manages to qualify every year. He's not a gun guy at all. He's also one of those who will say "I just don't see why anyone needs a 30 round clip" (yes, he'll use the word clip). I've argued with him about it. But he's hardheaded.

My sense of it is that most cops are against the AWB. But a fair number have no strong opinion, and some even support it. Those in the latter two categories tend to be cops who aren't gun enthusiasts. No cop that I know personally and who is a gun enthusiast supports it.

So much for the rank and file. As for the brass... Well, I've no doubt our old chief (now thankfully gone) would have supported it. He was a northern liberal, and supported many politically liberal positions. He was also a creature of the city council. The sheriff is not in favor of new gun control laws, but the sheriff is an elected official, not an appointee.

PRM
March 13, 2013, 11:36 PM
I've been an LEO since 1977. I am a Life Member of the NRA and strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

I am totally against gun control, it is our right, and is one of the things that makes us uniquely American.

I am fortunate to live and work in a conservative, pro-gun, pro-Bible, red state - so yes I am one of the "clingers" according to the POTUS... Our state currently has several bills up that oppose any federal laws relating to gun control. They even have one that would authorize the arrest of any federal officer trying to enforce such, and another directing the Attorney General to prosecute. Now, will federal law trump state law,.... :-( Bottom line, the message is strong and has been sent.

I can say, and most of the officers that I work with feel the same way, we will not disarm American citizens in violation of the US Constitution.

avs11054
March 13, 2013, 11:37 PM
100% against any legislation. I've never made one arrest for a gun related crime in which the person obtained the gun legally. Bad guys don't follow laws, and I think that most cops know that. Like another post said, I think that most rank and file cops are against an AWB. The chiefs who come out and say they are for it are politically motivated. I think the police departments that supplied Di-Fi with the guns for her little stunt are a disgrace to police officers. Police departments are supposed to enforce laws and not get involved in politics.

I will say that I am stunned by the cops who stand behind Obama and others at their rallies. These cops must live under rocks and never do any type of "real" police work. If they did, they would know that these laws will not make a difference in crime.

Oh, BTW, I had a co-worker killed by an AR-15 and responded to assist another agency in which an officer was killed by an AR-15. I am offended when these politicians say that they are passing these bills to try to protect police officers. I wish they would support more funding for police departments to provide more officers with increased fire power.

Lincoln4
March 13, 2013, 11:46 PM
Twenty years LEO, currently detective sergeant. Hell no! Most of my co-workers are of the same opinion. Gun control doesn't work. Its the political appointee chiefs that voice support for suppressing our rights.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Billy Shears
March 13, 2013, 11:52 PM
I think the police departments that supplied Di-Fi with the guns for her little stunt are a disgrace to police officers. Police departments are supposed to enforce laws and not get involved in politics.
I think those officers are a disgrace too, but what can you expect? Police departments, like all other organization, get bad apples too. Moreover, the brass tend to be more and more political the higher up the promotion ladder they go. By the time they get to be assistant chiefs and chiefs, they are dealing with city councils all the time and are neck deep in politics. By this time they are also usually years removed from the street, and so have faded memories of the realities there.

And let's not forget one last thing -- and I say this with a heavy heart, for I am a cop and wish it weren't true -- but there are some people who are drawn to our profession because they like having authority over other people. Is it any surprise that some of those types of officers would support gun control laws, being as those are one more way of controlling people.

Destructo6
March 14, 2013, 12:10 AM
Very much against it.

Very much for ccw, permitted and constitutional. I dig the AZ way.

Most of our guys have one or more black rifles and wuould be just as effected off duty as anybody else (work guns are for work and nothing else).

avs11054
March 14, 2013, 12:19 AM
It makes no difference what they think, what matters is what they do! I could care less what they think, in the end, almost every last one of them will storm your home for thwe guys/gals that sign their paychecks, don't you for one moment believe otherwise.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/01/25/increasing-number-of-sheriffs-reject-obama-assault-weapons-ban-16705

Maybe you should read this before making a statement like that. Also, cops have this thing called discretion...which means they can choose whether or not they take law enforcement action depending on the situation. In addition to this, I can't speak for other departments, but my department has specifically told officers that we are certified by the state, and we are unable to enforce federal laws, so unless the state changed its laws, we could not arrest people based on what a federal law says (this order was not associated with any gun legislation in mind).

simonstough
March 14, 2013, 12:55 AM
my wife's father, godfather and uncle were all on the same PD here for a time, her dad retired, so did her godfather but her uncle is now our chief of police so i have a rather decent relationship with MOST of my local LEOS. every officer i know is very against any form of additional gun control, our county sheriff on the other hand...well i'll be polite and say i dont have a high opinion of him or the majority of his staff, but i can say that some of them are opposed and some are all for it.

coyotehitman
March 14, 2013, 01:03 AM
Every time I see a price gouger in the classifieds...every time I read a cop bashing thread...every time a company lists that it is not willing to sell to an individual LEO....I support a ban just a little more. Fact is, if there is a ban the civies are screwed and the supply for LEO's just went back to normal. We are either in this together or I look out for #1.

Hypnogator
March 14, 2013, 01:07 AM
Retired Army CID Special Agent. The AWB is a direct violation of the 2nd Amendment, since the M-16 / M-4 is the modern equivalent of the 18th Century musket.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Oh, and yeah, the 1934 National Firearms Act and the Hughes Amendment are also both Unconstitutional, for the same reason. :what::eek::uhoh:

jerkface11
March 14, 2013, 01:12 AM
Price gouging? You mean charging the current market price? As for cop bashing what are you taking about? And why should a gun maker sell something to the cops that they can't sell to the rest of us? You said we are either in this together or you are in it for yourself. Sounds more like you want different rules for you than for the rest of us.

Ehtereon11B
March 14, 2013, 01:17 AM
Criminals will still get firearms no matter how many times the politicians change the definition of "assault weapon." They are merely making a mountain out of an ant hill by going after such a small section of violent crime committed with firearms. Anti-AWB.

krupparms
March 14, 2013, 01:55 AM
I was a LEO & have been a victim of the P.D.! Even though I have seen misconduct by L.E. I must say that I have to disagree with the idea that all police are bad. Yes there are bad apples out there & the police should do more to get rid of bad police! But to say they are all bad is not true! The 29 palms paper didn't show what you say eather! It showed that about 3/4s were against gun confiscated! Also that paper was given to active duty military! Not police if I remember right.

krupparms
March 14, 2013, 02:36 AM
You have no idea what the facts are! If you did, you would not have post what you did! If you knew what was fact, you would realize that you just stuck a size 16 boot in your mouth! Sorry but someone had to say it! If you only knew! :scrutiny:

Certaindeaf
March 14, 2013, 02:40 AM
In the final analysis, it's probably every man for himself. Good luck to us all.

BigBore44
March 14, 2013, 02:44 AM
Ok guys I want to get back on topic here. I want to hear from LEO's. Retired or active. I don't want opinions from someone who isn't in LE. Not in this thread anyways. This is research. I mean to offend no one and start no arguments. If this goes off topic the mods will close it. I don't want that yet. I'm asking nicely. Please, only LEO's.

postalnut25
March 14, 2013, 02:57 AM
Current LE. The rank and file seems to be either against the AWB, or apethetic about it. There are other things going on in life besides bad gun legislation. Some of the normal joes have interests outside of guns.

As far as support goes, I only see it from the higher ups that are in the appointed positions. There are maybe two supporters I know of on the line level. Those two are the ones that also have come out and said that being in the military isn't a worthwhile thing. Those two don't understand service to the country or their community, either. They are rabble-rousers at work that constantly kiss a** and piss people off on calls. Maybe my department can get rid of them, and the line staff can be 100% against the AWB.

Old Dog
March 14, 2013, 03:12 AM
Studies exist? Seriously? That "study" was a questionnaire devised by a junior officer, doing research for a master's thesis, given out to 300 (not that many completed it) junior Marines -- in 1994. At least do a tad bit more research on the internet before you refer to that tripe -- see if you can find even one more "study" that exists to prove your contention. Incidentally, if you find the real numbers for that particular questionnaire -- NOTHING was demonstrated conclusively. Do you need directions?

At any rate, to get back to the original question. Most of my guys are all gun guys, most of the female officers are not. Sad truth. But -- I've heard zero comments in favor of an AWB -- most of the internet commandos need to realize that cops see this sort of legislation for what it is: empty words that won't keep anyone, anywhere, any safer.

I reject the AWB, categorically.

BigBore44
March 14, 2013, 03:31 AM
Thanks to all LEO's who have responded so far. Please keep this going. I want as many responses as I can get. Several hundred would be really nice. Hopefully we have that many members in LE on THR.

VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
March 14, 2013, 04:13 AM
xxx

Alaska444
March 14, 2013, 04:54 AM
Ok guys I want to get back on topic here. I want to hear from LEO's. Retired or active. I don't want opinions from someone who isn't in LE. Not in this thread anyways. This is research. I mean to offend no one and start no arguments. If this goes off topic the mods will close it. I don't want that yet. I'm asking nicely. Please, only LEO's.
With all due respect, Research? On a public gun forum???

Sorry, but EVERYONE on THR has a right to post their opinions on any open thread. There are much better avenues to do research than a public forum.

Despite the dozens of county sheriffs against federal gun laws, there will be far too many who will comply with gun confiscation orders in my opinion. How many will actually risk their own careers and family to disobey direct orders in the military or the police force?

KS283
March 14, 2013, 05:01 AM
Almost 20 year veteran LEO. Survivor of multiple armed engagements.


LONG story short, I am against any further ban. I could be cliche and point out the definition or "criminal." I could argue all night about our rights, and by the way, every OTHER citizen's rights, afforded us by the second Amendment. But I won't.
Background checks? Ok. Depending on implementation.
Annual qualifications if teachers want to carry? YES!
I had to qualify tonight. I LOVE shooting someone else's ammo.
National database? NO WAY!
More funding for more LEO's on the street? THAT would be nice.
But I don't see the upside to an "AWB." I'm willing to listen to the arguments, but I haven't heard any valid point yet? I hear a lot of very touching, sad stories. I hear a lot of misguided, though well intentioned, ideas that just won't work in the real world.

Bigbore, if I've missed any points you wanted comments on, feel free to ask.

hoji
March 14, 2013, 06:12 AM
New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina. Even if there are a large number of LEO against confiscation, they will stand by and let those who are not go door to door and disarm Americans.

Rock185
March 14, 2013, 06:33 AM
I retired from full time LE in 2010 and have been a reserve ofc. since. I started LE in '73 and spent 2/3 of my career with a large dept, the last 1/3 with a much smaller one. I am against a new AWB. I don't think the majority of LE are in favor of an AWB, but many, especially the younger guys, don't seem much interested in anything gun-related, beyond the required dept. training and qualification shoots. I hear much more conversation about sports and/or video games. I can recall only a couple of times over the years hearing officers vocalize their support for more gun control. I remember one of my fellow officers, almost 40 years ago, saying that guns should be banned. That way, cops wouldn't need to carry guns. I guess I could understand his point of view, as he was very athletic, bigger, stronger and faster than most anyone he was ever likely to confront, and could physically prevail, with no worry about a suspect being armed,etc. He only lasted a couple of years in LE, but I have little doubt that he would probably feel the same way today. Along about '93, when Arizona was considering legislation allowing CCW, a detective in the bureau I worked was running around trying to rally support for opposing legal CCW. I don't recall any of our fellow detectives voicing any support for this guy's position, but I suspect that now-retired detective would be all for new restrictive gun control laws at the Federal, State or Local level . That being said, IMHO, most LE do not actively support new restrictions...

hoji, unfortunately, I believe you are correct. When it comes down to the cuttin', they will do more than stand by. If ordered to confiscate or whatever, I believe most LE and military would comply. This due to the fact we're talking careers, income/taking care of one's family, retirement pensions,etc,etc...

Alaska444
March 14, 2013, 07:17 AM
I retired from full time LE in 2010 and have been a reserve ofc. since. I started LE in '73 and spent 2/3 of my career with a large dept, the last 1/3 with a much smaller one. I am against a new AWB. I don't think the majority of LE are in favor of an AWB, but many, especially the younger guys, don't seem much interested in anything gun-related, beyond the required dept. training and qualification shoots. I hear much more conversation about sports and/or video games. I can recall only a couple of times over the years hearing officers vocalize their support for more gun control. I remember one of my fellow officers, almost 40 years ago, saying that guns should be banned. That way, cops wouldn't need to carry guns. I guess I could understand his point of view, as he was very athletic, bigger, stronger and faster than most anyone he was ever likely to confront, and could physically prevail, with no worry about a suspect being armed,etc. He only lasted a couple of years in LE, but I have little doubt that he would probably feel the same way today. Along about '93, when Arizona was considering legislation allowing CCW, a detective in the bureau I worked was running around trying to rally support for opposing legal CCW. I don't recall any of our fellow detectives voicing any support for this guy's position, but I suspect that now-retired detective would be all for new restrictive gun control laws at the Federal, State or Local level . That being said, IMHO, most LE do not actively support new restrictions...

hoji, unfortunately, I believe you are correct. When it comes down to the cuttin', they will do more than stand by. If ordered to confiscate or whatever, I believe most LE and military would comply. This due to the fact we're talking careers, income/taking care of one's family, retirement pensions,etc,etc...
Asking LEO what they feel about an AWB is like asking doctors what they feel about ObamaCare. The majority of doctors including yours truly vehemently opposed ObamaCare. It passed anyway and is now the law of the land as they say.

Our current political characters in office care little about "representing" the public any longer and will do what they wish to do. The reports out today in some news outlets is that the house WILL pass UBC in some fashion. If true, the AWB issue pales in comparison to UBC which by virtue of simple logic WILL evolve into a national gun registry. Confiscation WILL eventually follow should UBC become the law of the land.

Both sides say it's tough to compromise on the issue of records. Coburn and the NRA argue that requiring private sellers to keep a record of each background check and gun sale would start down a slippery slope to a national gun registry. Gun control advocates, on the other hand, say enforcing any background check law would be all but impossible if records aren’t kept, and thus would have little impact on the criminals the bill is designed to target.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/12/17286635-sources-nra-wont-oppose-background-check-deal-if-democrats-cede-tough-records-fight?lite

I have many friends who are LEO, but as mentioned above, when push comes to shove, most LEO will do what they did in Katrina. In fact, the police chief in our town here in northern Idaho is allegedly pro gun control. If that is the situation in northern Idaho, what about the rest of the nation?

Creature
March 14, 2013, 08:19 AM
You didn't seriously expect a single LEO to be in favor of the AWB here on a gun forum, did you?

Grassman
March 14, 2013, 09:35 AM
New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina. Even if there are a large number of LEO against confiscation, they will stand by and let those who are not go door to door and disarm Americans.
Yes! This is what I wanna see, Pro 2A cops standing up for the rights of Americans and stopping COPS who are engaging in confiscation. I wanna see cops stand up to other cops, and their superiors and say this is wrong and do not participate.

BigBore44
March 14, 2013, 09:50 AM
Creature,
Actually there are many gun owners who support some form of gun control. I want to know LEO members stance on it. If they support mag restrictions, fine. Banning of assault rifles, fine. I just want their take on why they do or don't support something like that. Some replies have been fairly middle of the road.

ATBackPackin
March 14, 2013, 09:52 AM
I am not currently nor have I ever been in LE. I do believe and appreciate that the majority of LEO's do not condone more gun control regulations.

With that being said, I do not see how it really matters when their bosses do and are touting them out on stages to state how vehemently they are for more gun control regulations. The sheriffs have taken their stance, but I haven't heard, other than here, about the PD's that are against gun control. I have heard from dozens of people who specifically say that they are for more gun control because LE is for it. They tell me that if they are for it then is must be what is best.

I think that if the majority of LE are against gun control then they need to make their voices heard. Publicly. Otherwise not only does it not help our cause, but it truly hurts it. People who are ignorant about gun tend to believe what the police tell them about them and right now they are saying they want more gun control. Stand up and make your voices heard.

Thank you all for your service.

Shawn

waterhouse
March 14, 2013, 11:01 AM
I'm against it. I think most responses you'll see on a gun forum are against it. Most cops I know are against it. We've discussed it and all of the guys on my shift are against it.

A few cops I know are in favor of the AWB. The ones in favor of it are not gun people and generally the only gun they own is their duty pistol. They seem to get most of their gun education from the media, and I've heard them talk about things like "cop killer bullets" and "full auto assault weapons." In any case, at least where I work they are very much the minority.

Creature
March 14, 2013, 11:06 AM
Creature,
Actually there are many gun owners who support some form of gun control.

That may be...but you certainly wont find many here on THR. And you wont find many anti-gun LEOs here on the THR either. Basing the responses you get from this thread, your quasi-research will very likely be skewed and very likely not representative of the vast majority of LEO's opinions, despite what many LEO who respond here will claim.

gym
March 14, 2013, 11:48 AM
I keep saying don't listen to what these "surveys" say, put out by the anti gun crowd. Cops are just like the rest of us, most understand that it's not legal gun owners who cause these crimes, "other than the nut occasional cases". It's very easy to print anything in a magazine or newspaper.That dosen't mean it's true. I have read about cases in the paper that were completely wrong, but that's what the public gets, a filtered, edited excuse for the truth.
Even when I had business articles written "years ago" about my business, from a PR guy who I paid", he would constantlly exagerate things to where he put me in some sticky situations, saying we did things that we haden't. I had to fire him, people would come in and ask me how I was in Europe yesterday, when they saw me in NY?, But it's in the Post, or the Times, so it has to be true.

Jeff White
March 14, 2013, 01:16 PM
There is no support for any firearms restrictions by any deputy or corrections officer on the sheriffs dept I work for.

The Illinois Sheriffs Association has come out against any new gun control laws.

jerkface11
March 14, 2013, 01:18 PM
The question shouldn't be do LEO's support new gun control laws. It should be will they enforce them.

krupparms
March 14, 2013, 01:49 PM
I believe you asked the wrong question! And I believe you asked it in the wrong place! Their are alot who cannot or will not answer it because they are not allowed to! I would suggest asking it else where. This will not get the information you want!

henschman
March 14, 2013, 03:53 PM
The question shouldn't be do LEO's support new gun control laws. It should be will they enforce them.

This.

If your state passed something like New York's recent law, or the one that the Governor is getting ready to sign in Colorado, how many of you would refuse to enforce it?

I believe that anyone who is willing to enforce such laws is a clear and present danger to the liberty of us all, and that of future generations. These laws are precisely the type of tyranny that the Second Amendment exists to protect us from. If political means fail, we have no other remedy than that which the Second Amendment protects. It is not a pleasant option, but it must be done.

Alaska444
March 14, 2013, 04:03 PM
Wonderful, how your mind works....Just who is it that gives orders, and just who is it that recieves them? The whole idea of "rank" is predicated upon the concept of senior v junior.
Uhhhmmm, Duhuhhhhhh, isn't the military all about rank structure or was there some other reason I had to salute my "superior" officers???

Sorry, but your point my friend. And by the way, I was promoted to the rank of Major before leaving service as well. Yes, junior and senior officers are a fact of the US military. Once again, what is your point????

Shadow 7D
March 14, 2013, 04:18 PM
Alaska none
Trolling is being done right now by both the RABID anit, and pro sides, there are individuals who are so worked up, they see US as people standing around mumbling.

What they fail to get, is that jumping up and down right now waving guns and ranting about gun control at the top of our lungs, will do little except alienate potential allies and POLARIZE those who are undecided.

Yeah, you can get a few more, but you will scare the sheeple and disgust the Fudd's
As for the rest, Oath Keepers have a point, and very good one, and work by PEER education, which in this case is probably the best way we can tackle it.

Thompson9494
March 14, 2013, 06:00 PM
As the title says, I'm not a Police Officer or anything, not yet at least. But, I do come from a cop family and several of my teachers are former/reserve duty LEOs, former/current military, etc. All of them except two are complete gun 'nuts' (I mean that in a very sincere way seeing as I'm one too :neener:). All of them said they would refuse to carry out any law or directive pertaining to the confiscation of firearms and the two that aren't just don't like guns, they're long retired (like 30+ years retired) and respect the individual right to own a gun, I've never asked their opinion on 'Assault Weapons' because I don't care, they're my family.

LEOs and military may have to 'follow' orders but they are not computers or robots, they can think for themselves and decide whether or not they want to execute those orders. Some may carry out such an order, I suspect many would simply stand down and some may even completely 'switch' sides. I cannot say for sure for those that are not my family members, but I can bet money and feel pretty safe they wouldn't.

Hope this helps.

coloradokevin
March 14, 2013, 06:17 PM
I think my thousands of posts online, hundreds of letters to lawmakers, and years worth of continuous lobbying efforts for 2nd Amendment rights answers that question from my perspective. But, for whatever it's worth to reiterate this point: I'm strongly against these worthless regulations, which will only victimize the law-abiding.

Most of my colleagues agree with my view.

ol' scratch
March 14, 2013, 06:32 PM
Retired Chicago Police here. 90% of CPD is Not in favor of a AWB!! 90% of CPD is in favor for carried concealed. Don't believe all read read about the CPD being anti-gun;)
I got into a conversation with a Chicago Police Officer at 7/11 once. He was the first police officer I had seen since I was a kid with a revolver strapped to his hip. He was a gun nut, hated the laws in Chitown and wanted to find out about the CMP and how to get a Garand. He was a really nice guy.

Loc n Load
March 14, 2013, 11:52 PM
34 years on the job....have been on site during two complete meltdowns in LA in 92 ( Rodney King) and then Miami in August (Hurricane Andrew) of same year. Citizens who were armed protected their property and were able to defend themselves, unarmed couldn't. I am a lifetime NRA member, GOA member and SAF member, have been a 2A activist since the late 60's.....still am. Opposed the 94AWB, oppose any further laws on guns, mag's or the so called "universal background" checks. What the law makers really need to focus on is:
A. Mandatory prosecution ( not discretionary by a prosecutor) of criminals using guns committing violent crimes. FederaL prosecution has declined last several years ( guess why).
B. No plea bargaining for gun violations - this is the first thing that they plea bargain away due to existing mandatory sentencing guidelines ( federal).
C. Restructure our very badly broken mental health system, that has made involuntary commitment virtually impossible.....our society is rapidly turning into a "open air insane asylum....all of this due to special interest groups....and court actions.
Most officers I know are in favor of responsible citizens owning firearms, a lot of these "brass hats" you see lined up on TV are politically appointed police chiefs who are going to say whatever their boss wants them to say ( and their boss is usually the mayor)....have seen this performed over and over for decades. There is an increasing number of Sheriff's standing up and saying "no" and I haven't seen that before.

scaatylobo
March 15, 2013, 11:42 AM
I am in touch with approx a thousand LEO's and they all oppose this b.s.

I am retired LEO, and even the retirees that dont carry are opposed.

LiquidTension
March 15, 2013, 01:33 PM
I think that if the majority of LE are against gun control then they need to make their voices heard. Publicly. Otherwise not only does it not help our cause, but it truly hurts it. People who are ignorant about gun tend to believe what the police tell them about them and right now they are saying they want more gun control. Stand up and make your voices heard.

Easier said than done. Most departments prohibit officers from engaging in political activities while in uniform. What good does it do for me to stand up and oppose the AWB as an LEO if I am then fired and no longer an LEO? I can oppose it all day long as an individual but bringing my department into the discussion is out of the question. For example, I recently took a local radio host out to the range to edumacate him on the topic of guns. I refused to tell him what department I worked for so there was no chance he'd slip up and mention it on the radio, thereby bringing the wrath of the higher-ups down on me (again) for putting the department in the media without it being tightly controlled by the media relations guy.

Chiefs (political appointees and therefore politicians themselves) have the authority to speak for their department. Rank and file LEOs do not. That keeps a lot of us from being able to "stand up and make our voices heard."

For the record, I find the entire concept that disarming law abiding citizens somehow has an effect on criminal behavior to be ridiculous.

Loc n Load
March 15, 2013, 07:43 PM
Post 48 is correct...My agency prohibits any interviews or contact with the press when in uniform or in any activity that is controversial or could have a negative reflection on the agency....we have several written policy statements regarding this and you will be disciplined or terminated if you do not heed them. Any information being sourced to the press must come from our Public Information Officer......I have seen officer's disregard this policy in years past and they were punished. So those of us in the trenches cannot "speak out" in any way that refers to our job or agency...unless we want to lose our jobs, careers and not be able to support ourselves and families.

c1ogden
March 16, 2013, 10:34 PM
I'm totally against ANY gun laws other than those that prohibit possession by those convicted of serious VIOLENT crimes and those who are mentally unstable.

coloradokevin
March 17, 2013, 02:03 PM
Posts 48 and 49 hit it for my agency as well. We are absolutely prohibited from discussing this issue, for or against, when in uniform, or as "representatives of the department".

So, as you may notice, while I'll reveal my law enforcement status online, I don't speak directly of my agency. Many folks I know on THR already know where I work, but it isn't something I broadcast on here, for fear of running afoul of my agencies rules on this subject.

As has already been said, I don't accomplish anything for anyone (including myself) if I go and make a political statement in violation of this policy, and find myself fired for doing so. Regardless, as an individual who is also a police officer, I think I've made my views clear.

Also, for those of you who are soliciting a bunch of officers to publicly pledge to not enforce laws, you're probably asking a lot, for the same reasons I posted above. All I'm going to say is that we each swore an oath to defend the constitution of the United States when we took these jobs. Officers generally have enforcement discretion as well. I know some guys who never write traffic tickets, and others who never really look for dope. Everyone has their "specialty". But, asking officers to publicly pledge to not enforce a law isn't something that you can really expect will result in an overwhelming response.

Kevin Rohrer
March 17, 2013, 02:39 PM
Been hearing/reading a fair amount of talk about LEO's and their potential support for the proposed AWB.

Politically appointed police chiefs are the soul occupants in this category. Most popularly elected county Sheriffs and the vast majority of LEOs (including me) are against the AWB or any other gun control. We understand that a public that is armed, is a public that experiences little crime.

An armed society is a polite society--Robert Heinlein via The Guru

LeonCarr
March 17, 2013, 03:16 PM
When I became a LEO I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution Of The United States (ALL OF IT) and the laws of The State Of Texas.

In 18 years of Law Enforcement I have yet to recover/take into evidence a firearm used the commission of an offense that was legally obtained.

Also, law abiding citizens should be armed because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

mister_murphy
March 17, 2013, 04:14 PM
Myself and many others are against it here. The sspba that most officers in this area are a member of, even put out a statement against the AWB.

I agree as well that post 48 and 49 brought out a good point, that the majority of the officers can not speak out for/against anything in uniform.

ahpd1992
March 18, 2013, 10:25 AM
LEO for 21+ years, never have been, never will be for gun control. It doesn't work, and I am not comfortable with only the police and military being armed. I'm against the AWB, was against the Brady Bill, will be against anything proposed.

As far as not enforcing laws, you guys are barking up the wrong tree. LEO's don't legislate, we enforce. We have discretion in many cases, but many times we do not. I have been talked to by "Oath Keepers" about not enforcing laws deemed "unconstitutional" (which is for the Supreme Court to decide the last time I checked), it ain't gonna happen.

Cops vote too, that is generally where we do our talking. Unfortunately lately one side of the political spectrum (that generally sides with gun rights) has decided we no longer deserve our pensions, insurance and salaries. This has pushed many who were in the middle squarely over to the other side. Labor issues overriding gun rights issues. I will not change the subject, just letting you all know the state of things in my part of the world

In summary, I'm against it. Most of my coworkers are too, but there always has been and always will be the nanny types in my profession who don't think anyone should have guns

BigBore44
March 19, 2013, 02:53 AM
Guys (and Gals), I just want to make something clear about my initial question. I in no way want you to mention what department you work for. If you want to say the state, that's fine. It's up to you. I don't want anyone getting in trouble over this thread topic. And I appreciate the input so far.

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