Illinois firearms transport?


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wlemay
March 14, 2013, 12:40 AM
As far as I can tell, in IL all you have to do to legally transport a firearm is have a valid FOID AND have the firearm unloaded AND have it in a "case".

I understand that the location of ammo whether in a magazine or loose rounds is NOT regulated as long as the ammo is not physically loaded in the firearm.

One thing that I am unsure of is whether the location of the encased firearm is regulated... as far as I can tell it is not. I have heard of people carrying special "fanny packs" with an unloaded pistol & magazine inside to get around the conceal carry ban. I have also heard that the center console is also now legally considered a "case".

But is the location of the encased firearm in the vehicle regulated? Can you have a firearm in the passenger compartment or even on your lap as long as it is fully encase & unloaded? I would be inclined to think this is not regulated seeing as I could not find any mention of it in the state laws or on state police website, but I want to know for sure if any of you know of any such regulations or cases regarding this matter.

I am interested to know because I live on the edge of East St.Louis & have to drive through some rougher parts of it (yea I know all of ESL is rough...) to get to work & I would feel a hell of a lot more comfortable if I had a firearm that I could get to if need be. I have had some terrifying experiences in this area and try to avoid the bad areas, but that isn't always an option.

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SundownRider
March 14, 2013, 12:55 AM
You can have it in the glove box or center console as long as it is unloaded, but the loaded magazine can be nearby.
Same with a pack of some sort. The versipak series from Maxpedition are great for this.
Make sure you have copies of the laws regarding this type of carry, as luck would have it the one cop that pulls you over may not be fully aware of the law in a situation such as this.
It's the best we can do until the farking idiots in Springfield figure out how to bring concealed carry to us. (Of course, we're the farking idiots who keep electing them)

wlemay
March 14, 2013, 01:01 AM
You can have it in the glove box or center console as long as it is unloaded, but the loaded magazine can be nearby.

As I recall the law states that ammo can be kept in the case with the firearm, and the ISP website says ammo location whether in a mag or not is not regulated. Where did you see that ammo cannot be nearby? I am not being critical of you I just want to know.

Also I am not interested in using a glovebox or console, I was asking specifically about the location of a firearm in a traditional zip-up case with ammo in the case of course.

*edit* I thought you said "cannot be nearby", just re-read it and saw you said "can".

joatman66
March 14, 2013, 01:36 AM
This might help some...

http://heartlandtrainingteam.sharepoint.com/Documents/Fanny%20Pack%20Carry%20Info.pdf

AlbertH
March 14, 2013, 07:47 AM
http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/transgun0-000.pdf

Neo-Luddite
March 14, 2013, 01:47 PM
Unloaded, cased, mag aywhere but the magwell. No brainer. That said, in Chi, I'd recomend throwing it in the trunk to comply with their local law ~ but even an AR is A-Ok even there. We'll get there soon....

wlemay
March 14, 2013, 03:10 PM
My only concern was the physical location of the encased firearm. Apparently location is irrelevant as long as the firearm IS unloaded and IN a case.

Just to be safe I got a copy of both ISP firearm transport brochure and a full copy of UUW laws in my firearm case with relevant info highlighted.

sonick808
March 14, 2013, 07:54 PM
When I lived in IL I used to get pulled over all the time with a pistol in teh car (bleach blonde hair, c5 corvette, 35 with the physical appearance of a 15 year old, driving back and forth to Rockford to see G/F from Bloomington), so i became quite aware of what the police mind and didn't mind in IL.

I had best results when the firearm was out of reach, regardless of it's condition as long as a round wasn't chambered and no magazine was in the gun. I used to break the gun down into parts and keep the frame in the spare tire cpt,. slide and barrel in the glove. The troopers seemed more annoyed by having ANY part, even a cartridge, in reaching distance.

Factory case, unloaded and no magazine in the grip. If you place the magazine with the gun, don't have any rounds in it.

Oh and don't forget that wonderfully unconstitutional FOID card!

ETA: in order of laxness: State Trooper most lax, County Sheriff, 50K+ population town local PD, small town PD
ETA2: regarding zipper cases, I've heard horror stories in IL of gun hating cops arresting people because a couple teeth on the zipper weren't meshed. Stick with solid hasps of some sort to avoid arbitrary definitions of CLOSED.

*I show people in AZ my old FOID card and they marvel at it's awfulness. A true heirloom of a suppressive time.

NavyLCDR
March 14, 2013, 10:23 PM
If you place the magazine with the gun, don't have any rounds in it.

Why not? Do we live our lives by what a police officer might like or dislike, or according to what the law is? I suppose that is a choice each person must make for themselves. I don't pay much mind to what legal behavior a police officer might disapprove of.

Trent
March 14, 2013, 10:34 PM
Why not? Do we live our lives by what a police officer might like or dislike, or according to what the law is? I suppose that is a choice each person must make for themselves. I don't pay much mind to what legal behavior a police officer might disapprove of.

Huge +1

I live my life the way *I* choose. :)

Trent
March 14, 2013, 10:35 PM
A note on firearms transport:

A case is not required if you remove the bolt. :)

http://i.imgur.com/H9tT8XNl.jpg

This holds true for handguns too. Knock the slide off and you need no case.

(Just posting up in case someone gets to the border and forgets they have a "rack gun" in the truck window)

NavyLCDR
March 15, 2013, 12:05 AM
A note on firearms transport:

A case is not required if you remove the bolt. :)

This holds true for handguns too. Knock the slide off and you need no case.

(Just posting up in case someone gets to the border and forgets they have a "rack gun" in the truck window)

And another note: it is not required to remove the bolt or slide if the gun is unloaded and inaccessible.

Nor is an FOID even required if the gun is either broken down in a non-functioning state or unloaded and inaccessible. So, simple answer, just lock the unloaded gun, magazine (loaded with ammo or not, just not inserted in the gun), and ammo in a case or exterior compartment of the vehicle and you are good to go, even without an FOID. Never consent to any search and keep your mouth shut about the gun unless directly asked by an officer if you are transporting firearms.

AlbertH
March 15, 2013, 07:44 AM
Why not? Do we live our lives by what a police officer might like or dislike, or according to what the law is? I suppose that is a choice each person must make for themselves. I don't pay much mind to what legal behavior a police officer might disapprove of.
Everyone here seems to be seeking a criminal case that will eventually make it to the U S Supreme Court. We meed to find someone who could do us all a favor and head to Illinois, pull some crazy stunt, end up in court on a weapons charge, and then fight that 2A case all the way to the U S Supreme Court.

Nothing will ever change until the U S Supreme Court writes an opinion on a 2A case.

Talk is free, actions can have consequences, cost lots of money, and even possibly end a person up in jail. 2A is just part of the United States Constitution for without the rest of it there is no United States of America, just a well armed lawless land

Trent
March 15, 2013, 09:24 AM
You volunteering Albert?

Also; it's against THR rules to incite or encourage someone to violate the law; particularly with gun laws.

Neo-Luddite
March 15, 2013, 11:02 AM
pull some crazy stunt

Um....no.

NavyLCDR
March 15, 2013, 12:04 PM
Everyone here seems to be seeking a criminal case that will eventually make it to the U S Supreme Court. We meed to find someone who could do us all a favor and head to Illinois, pull some crazy stunt, end up in court on a weapons charge, and then fight that 2A case all the way to the U S Supreme Court.

Nothing will ever change until the U S Supreme Court writes an opinion on a 2A case.

Talk is free, actions can have consequences, cost lots of money, and even possibly end a person up in jail. 2A is just part of the United States Constitution for without the rest of it there is no United States of America, just a well armed lawless land

Seriously? Pull some crazy stunt? You mean a crazy stunt like complying with the law and nothing more? The law says the gun has to be unloaded and inaccessible. That's it. Then somehow that morphs into disassemble the gun, lock the frame in the trunk and the slide in the glovebox, lock the ammo up separately, and make sure and unload all magazines and keep them away from the gun and the ammo...all just to make some cop happy that might stop me for a burned out tailight.

All I am saying is if the law allows me to lock the unloaded gun in a case, with the fully magazine and ammo in the case as well, that is what I am going to do, because that is what is most legally convenient for me to do.... I don't particularly care if it is what is most convenient for the cop or not. And, no, Officer, I will not unlock the case for you to look inside.

AlbertH
March 15, 2013, 01:23 PM
You volunteering Albert?

Also; it's against THR rules to incite or encourage someone to violate the law; particularly with gun laws.

I am a RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER and a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN so I obey the laws and have no interest in violating a law just to start a 2A legal challenge.

I am amazed that it hasn't happened somewhere yet though, considering all the posts I read on many different sites that openly talk of breaking laws that the author feels are unjust or possibly unconstitutional.

Why hasn't the Motor City Madman taken up the challenge, It isn't like he doesn't have the money, and he isn't afraid of saying that the Second Amendment is his right to carry concealed wherever he pleases.

talk is free, actions have consequences, cost cash, and can land you in jail.

Some feel that the Second Amendment is the United States Constitution. but without the articles of incorporation and the other amendments, there is NO UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, just a well armed lawless land

Jeff White
March 15, 2013, 01:40 PM
Nor is an FOID even required if the gun is either broken down in a non-functioning state or unloaded and inaccessible.

If you are not an Illinois resident a FOID is not required and there is no way for you to even get one.

However if you are an Illinois resident and don't have a FOID it doesn't matter that the firearm is broken down. Here are the exemptions in the FOID Act:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1657&ChapterID=39
(430 ILCS 65/2) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-2)
Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions.
(a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm,
stun gun, or taser within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
(2) No person may acquire or possess firearm
ammunition within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
(b) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to:
(1) United States Marshals, while engaged in the
operation of their official duties;
(2) Members of the Armed Forces of the United States
or the National Guard, while engaged in the operation of their official duties;
(3) Federal officials required to carry firearms,
while engaged in the operation of their official duties;
(4) Members of bona fide veterans organizations which
receive firearms directly from the armed forces of the United States, while using the firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition;
(5) Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with
valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(6) Those hunters exempt from obtaining a hunting
license who are required to submit their Firearm Owner's Identification Card when hunting on Department of Natural Resources owned or managed sites;
(7) Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range
recognized by the Department of State Police; however, these persons must at all other times and in all other places have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(8) Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or
display recognized by the Department of State Police; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and
enclosed in a case;
(10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or
registered to possess a firearm in their resident state;
(11) Unemancipated minors while in the custody and
immediate control of their parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor if the parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor has a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;
(12) Color guards of bona fide veterans organizations
or members of bona fide American Legion bands while using firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition;
(13) Nonresident hunters whose state of residence
does not require them to be licensed or registered to possess a firearm and only during hunting season, with valid hunting licenses, while accompanied by, and using a firearm owned by, a person who possesses a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and while in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled, but in no instance upon sites owned or managed by the Department of Natural Resources;
(14) Resident hunters who are properly authorized to
hunt and, while accompanied by a person who possesses a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card, hunt in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled;
(15) A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a
Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization; and
(16) Competitive shooting athletes whose competition
firearms are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee, the International Paralympic Committee, the International Shooting Sport Federation, or USA Shooting in connection with such athletes' training for and participation in shooting competitions at the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games and sanctioned test events leading up to the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games.
(c) The provisions of this Section regarding the acquisition and possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to law enforcement officials of this or any other jurisdiction, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.
(d) Any person who becomes a resident of this State, who is not otherwise prohibited from obtaining, possessing, or using a firearm or firearm ammunition, shall not be required to have a Firearm Owner's Identification Card to possess firearms or firearms ammunition until 60 calendar days after he or she obtains an Illinois driver's license or Illinois Identification Card.
(Source: P.A. 96-7, eff. 4-3-09; 97-1131, eff. 1-1-13.)

As you can plainly see there is no exemption for possessing a weapon that is unloaded and inaccessible or disassembled if you are an Illinois resident. You might be able to argue that you were not in possession of it if was inaccessible and you could prove you had no knowledge of it being there.

Years ago the states attorney dropped a felon in possession of a firearm charge on a 1%er biker I arrested because the biker's brother who wasn't a felon was going to testify that he put the gun in the car and the biker had no knowledge of it. Of course unless you have a person with a FOID willing to step up and say they put the gun in the car without your knowledge, that defense might not work.

The easiest way to stay out of trouble is to unload it and put it in a case. Pretty simple really.....

NavyLCDR
March 15, 2013, 01:50 PM
If you are not an Illinois resident a FOID is not required and there is no way for you to even get one.

However if you are an Illinois resident and don't have a FOID it doesn't matter that the firearm is broken down.

As you can plainly see there is no exemption for possessing a weapon that is unloaded and inaccessible or disassembled if you are an Illinois resident. You might be able to argue that you were not in possession of it if was inaccessible and you could prove you had no knowledge of it being there.

My lack of geography knowledge bit me. I saw St. Louis in the OP and thought Missouri.

Jeff White
March 15, 2013, 02:05 PM
East St Louis is on the Illinois side of the Mississippi. It's probably the most failed city in the country. Detroit would be considered a model of municipal government compared to East St Louis. The OP is right, it's a very bad place. Just doesn't make the news like the violence in cities that still have some business and decent neighborhoods in them.

sonick808
March 15, 2013, 03:14 PM
Why not? Do we live our lives by what a police officer might like or dislike, or according to what the law is? I suppose that is a choice each person must make for themselves. I don't pay much mind to what legal behavior a police officer might disapprove of.

because it's Illinois... have you had the pleasure of experiencing their interpretations of IL law first hand yet ?

Trent
March 15, 2013, 03:28 PM
I am a RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER and a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN so I obey the laws and have no interest in violating a law just to start a 2A legal challenge.

I am amazed that it hasn't happened somewhere yet though, considering all the posts I read on many different sites that openly talk of breaking laws that the author feels are unjust or possibly unconstitutional.

talk is free, actions have consequences, cost cash, and can land you in jail.


Let's see, just a few that matter.

Shepard v. Madigan - Right-To-Carry - NRA, ISRA

ISRA v. Illinois State Police - FOID Privacy - ISRA

Moore v. Madigan - Right-To-Carry - SAF, IllinoisCarry.com

State v. Aguilar - Right-To-Carry

Ezell v. Chicago - Chicago Ranges / Firearm Training - SAF, ISRA

Heller v. DC - Court of Appeals Ruling


Some feel that the Second Amendment is the United States Constitution. but without the articles of incorporation and the other amendments, there is NO UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, just a well armed lawless land


Why do you feel compelled to keep posting this same thing over and over again?


Why hasn't the Motor City Madman taken up the challenge, It isn't like he doesn't have the money, and he isn't afraid of saying that the Second Amendment is his right to carry concealed wherever he pleases.


He's not an Illinois resident, so it's of no concern to me.

By the way, he's actually a great guy once you get to know him.

I *do* know him, by the way.

http://i.imgur.com/re2Hvb0l.jpg

NavyLCDR
March 15, 2013, 04:09 PM
because it's Illinois... have you had the pleasure of experiencing their interpretations of IL law first hand yet ?

So, in other words, I should figure out how the state, county and city law enforcement and court system interpret every law?

AlbertH
March 15, 2013, 04:12 PM
Why do you feel compelled to keep posting this same thing over and over again?




"Tyrant:
1. a sovereign or other ruler who uses power oppressively or unjustly.
Example: http://www.whitehouse.gov/"


And your reasoning is?

Why is it ok for you to continually post the same thing but not others, especially when my posting is the truth for if there were no United States Constitution, there would be no Country.. facts is facts

Trent
March 15, 2013, 04:21 PM
"Tyrant:
1. a sovereign or other ruler who uses power oppressively or unjustly.
Example: http://www.whitehouse.gov/"


And your reasoning is?

Why is it ok for you to continually post the same thing but not others, especially when my posting is the truth for if there were no United States Constitution, there would be no Country.. facts is facts

Go add that to your user profile then (it's called a signature), so it is separated from your message and doesn't show up when people quote you. :)

That'll keep you from having to type it in each time, and it won't appear that it's part of whatever message you are typing each time (a little line separates it so people won't get confused that it's part of your post).

sonick808
March 15, 2013, 04:31 PM
So, in other words, I should figure out how the state, county and city law enforcement and court system interpret every law?

let's simplify: **** can go wrong in Illinois, I've seen it happen after spending 30 years there. Choose your own interpretation/application/etc.

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