No mag policy


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Alexey931
March 14, 2013, 04:49 PM
Hi,

Why, for instance, M16 is carried with the mag detached at all times (unless when it's absolutely impossible)? There must be some rationale behind it. An 'armed' guard with a weapon obviously unloaded looks ridiculous. Curiously, the AK-47 manual requires the magazine to be attached at all times. I also can't tell why.

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mljdeckard
March 14, 2013, 04:54 PM
There's the right way, the wrong way, and the army way. Seek not the wisdom therein, for it existeth not.

The bottom line is, the army doesn't trust you not to blow your toe off. Or rather, they may trust YOU, but they know someone who works with you will blow his toe off. I really think that the army engenders an attitude of complacency, letting people think their guns are always 'unloaded', thereby allowing people to develop sloppy habits and unsafe handling.

esheato
March 14, 2013, 04:59 PM
Prior USAF here. I deployed to Bosnia years ago and we had to carry our rifles everywhere. We were issued 2 mags which were carried in a mag pouch fixed to the buttstock.

Some yahoo lost a round or two during the monthly round counts and after scouring the base for the loose rounds, they changed the policy.

Mags were placed in zip-loc bags, then placed in the mag pouch and tape was placed around the latch, and the tape was signed and dated. Everyone was like, "well, how am I supposed to get into it if I need it?" Of course, I carried a pocketknife....nobody else did.

Don't think too hard on this one...it doesn't make sense.

psyopspec
March 14, 2013, 05:00 PM
Why, for instance, M16 is carried with the mag detached at all times (unless when it's absolutely impossible)? There must be some rationale behind it. An 'armed' guard with a weapon obviously unloaded looks ridiculous. Curiously, the AK-47 manual requires the magazine to be attached at all times. I also can't tell why.


Policies vary. When I've seen troops at airports in the states, magazines were out. In Iraq and Afghanistan, it varies base to base. As deckard pointed out, there are 3 ways to do things...

benEzra
March 14, 2013, 05:04 PM
Curiously, the AK-47 manual requires the magazine to be attached at all times. I also can't tell why.
That's to keep dirt and debris out of the magwell. With any magazine-fed rifle, having the magazine out while in the field compromises reliability.

PabloJ
March 14, 2013, 05:22 PM
Hi,

Why, for instance, M16 is carried with the mag detached at all times (unless when it's absolutely impossible)? There must be some rationale behind it. An 'armed' guard with a weapon obviously unloaded looks ridiculous. Curiously, the AK-47 manual requires the magazine to be attached at all times. I also can't tell why.
When one leads mercenary unit and want's to have restful night he needs trusty guards posted where others think he is and find place to rest nobody is aware of. Shockingly the reasoning for such "gun, ammo, magazine" policies in American military is the same.
Realizing that USA is melting pot of many nationalities and religions will hep you understand this.

Quentin
March 14, 2013, 07:42 PM
Are you talking combat vs. non-combat situations? In Vietnam we certainly had a loaded mag inserted nearly all the time. When out of country, then never any ammo except at the rifle range. I would think it's pretty much the same in today's military.

Alexey931
March 14, 2013, 07:55 PM
There's a subtle difference: the native AK-47 manual requires the mag to be inserted whether it's empty or not.

icebones
March 15, 2013, 10:37 AM
Deckard pretty much nailed it. The military has to idiot proof everything. Then again quite a few people join the military with little or NO firearms experience. And the DOD itself is fairly anti-gun in my opinion, especially with privately owned firearms in base housing. (One of many reasons I lived off base)

Inside the fence you follow the T.O. or regulations or whatever you call your rule book to a T. Outside the fence its a different story. There was quite a few regs and rules I didn't agree with but I followed them anyway. Getting your ass chewed out, reprimanded or an Article 15 by a higher ranking NCO, 1ST SGT or an Officer over a trivial rule you dont agree with isnt worth the headache or hassle.

I remember we could carry our M16A2/M4 with a full magazine locked with the chamber empty and safety on. Or the magazine out, chamber empty and safety on. But we carried our M9 with a round in the chamber and hammer down and holstered. But that was the air force. I cant speak for the army, marine or navy.

Just be glad you aren't south Korean. My time in Kunsan AFB back in 08 we would always see the Korean personnel with their rifles unloaded, magazine out, safety on and a little green foam block stuck into the trigger guard like a pseudo trigger lock. Their standard issue service rifle was a Daewoo K2 I believe. Looks similar to an AR-18 or those Stoner 63's. God forbid those koreans had to shoot someone in a hurry because it wasn't going to happen. Especially scary when you think that the North Korean military is only a few hours drive to the north.

sixgunner455
March 15, 2013, 12:13 PM
In Afghanistan in '02 and '03, I was issued one magazine while on base, and as many as I could carry when off base. The magazine I carried on base was loaded with 30 rounds of ammunition, and carried inserted into the magazine well. Chamber empty, safety on.

Outside the wire, we carried chambers loaded, and had lots of full magazines. And I always finagled a pistol and a couple of magazines for it, too.

Kuwait and Iraq in '03, lots of magazines and ammo all the time, but we had to carry mag out while on bases in Kuwait, mag in for convoying around in the desert. In Iraq, it was locked and loaded 24/7 unless I was cleaning it.

Ehtereon11B
March 15, 2013, 09:21 PM
OEF 2010. The only time I carried an empty weapon while in country was when POTUS landed in Bagram, and I just happened to be there. When I carried my M9 I typically had 3 magazines of 9mm and 2 for the M4: One in, one in back left pocket.

At the Kyrgyzstan transit hub and a stop in Kuwait we were not allowed to carry our weapons let alone loaded. I flew to Kuwait unarmed and stored my weapon in Kyrgyzstan in a locked cage.

Auto426
March 15, 2013, 09:42 PM
As others have said, there is the policy in the military for carrying firearms depends largely upon where the person is stationed, the current threat level at that station, and what role the person is fulfilling. An airbase in Iowa will have a different policy than an forward operating base in Kandahar Province. While the empty chamber and no-mag policies may seem silly to some, it's done to prevent as many ND's as possible. A soldier can't accidentally shoot himself or a bystander if there is no round in the chamber.

Welding Rod
March 15, 2013, 10:04 PM
Poor leadership.

Torian
March 15, 2013, 10:06 PM
It all depends on the threat level in the environment you are operating out of. In Afghanistan, we almost always (few exceptions) carried a mag in our weapons (empty chamber), and locked and loaded just prior to going outside the wire.

The only times we carried our weapons without magazines was when we were at the Super FOBs where there was practically zero risk of attack, and we were only transients there awaiting movement to another location.

Same thing in Iraq...when we were in Kuwait..no mags. When we were in Iraq...mags in weapons.

c1ogden
March 16, 2013, 11:12 PM
Why, for instance, M16 is carried with the mag detached at all times

I don't know when you're referring to maybe its just a lack of training. In the 70s a friend enlisted in the Navy. He reported that his entire firearms training consisted of 10 rounds through a single shot .22 rifle on an indoor range. A year later, onboard a guided missile cruiser, he was assigned his first guard duty. (The missile control room had to be guarded at all times when the ship was in a foreign port.) With most of the crew ashore, he reported for duty and the man he relieved handed him an M-16 and a holstered 1911. When he protested that he didn't know how to load or fire either gun the other man reported that he didn't either but he had been assured that they weren't loaded!

I really hope things have changed!

PabloJ
March 16, 2013, 11:21 PM
Poor leadership.
No. The actual reason is NO trust.

Arp32
March 16, 2013, 11:40 PM
With most of the crew ashore, he reported for duty and the man he relieved handed him an M-16 and a holstered 1911. When he protested that he didn't know how to load or fire either gun the other man reported that he didn't either but he had been assured that they weren't loaded!


Priceless!!!

Welding Rod
March 17, 2013, 12:21 AM
No. The actual reason is NO trust.

Chicken and egg.

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