Best 1858 clone?


PDA






Blackhawk30
March 14, 2013, 04:08 PM
Best 1858 clone?I've always wanted one and with Obama new bans I want to get one while I can.

If you enjoyed reading about "Best 1858 clone?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
AlexanderA
March 14, 2013, 05:31 PM
Uberti.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
March 14, 2013, 06:44 PM
Pedersoli

raa-7
March 14, 2013, 06:52 PM
I hear you on that,there,s a couple I'm going to get while I/we can.I'd like another 1858 NA,with a long barrel,probably a 12" bbl. I have the 8" barreled Pietta, 1858 New Army I'm damn pleased with.For the longest time,I thought that they wouldnt be all that good but I was wrong.I shoot it alot and have not had any kind of trouble with it and it will hit where ya aim it.Oh,I did drill out the nipples just to clean em up a little,but havent had any misfires that I can even think of.It's the most fun to shoot of my revolvers,but I really like shooting them all.:D

BSA1
March 14, 2013, 08:02 PM
For a long time the stock answer is Uberti is the best made imported revolver. However Pietta has improved the quality of their guns a lot and IMHO for $229.00 represents the best buy.

p.s. I know the 1858 was only made with the 8" barrel but the 5 1/2" keeps pulling at me.

Malachi Leviticus Blue
March 14, 2013, 08:23 PM
Armi San Paolo, no longer produced, but plenty on the used market.

kBob
March 14, 2013, 08:24 PM
Well you might read the 1000+ posts on the THR Remington Club and see what answer you get.

-kBob
THR Remington Club Member #152

Olmontanaboy
March 14, 2013, 08:29 PM
Uberti

Old Dragoon
March 14, 2013, 11:20 PM
If you have smaller hand then I recommend the Armi San Paolo\ Euroarms, it is a opy of the smaller framed Remington - Beals Old Arm, Elliots Transition to NMA, Second model(barest of relief at the breech with some NMA refinements, but still the smaller Remington - Beals Frame.
They are my Pistol of choice. They are no longer made new, but there are several ways to find them. Used Armi San Paolo, Euroarms and the unlikely source, Lyman. The Remy's sold by Lyman were produced by Armi San Paolo. There are a few like new ones out there, even though they were made in the 70's. All will use the Conversion Cylinders (R & D,(Taylors is made by R & D) And Kirst) made for Uberti Remy's.
I wish Pedersoli would resurrect the Armi San Paolo/ Euroarms Remy's. They were unique and sadly just now we are becoming aware of just what they copied.

Hellgate
March 15, 2013, 12:19 AM
The "best" is the one that fits your hand the best. Some people complain that the trigger guard whacks their knuckle when they fire the gun so the smaller ASP/Euroarms might not be the best for beefy hands. Uberti is somewhere in the middle size wise with Pietta being the heftiest. Personally I like the Ubertis for their medium size and consistant quality. I've had one really bad ASPs and 3 bad Piettas. The later Piettas are supposed to be pretty good. I bought a 5 1/2" barrelled Pietta for a friend recently (Uberti made some too) and it had a much nicer balance compared to the full size model. The ASP and the Pietta Remingtons are so different in feel that I compare them to the 1851 Navy Colt vs the 1860 Army Colt in grip size and heft. They are way different. I've owned 3 Piettas (all SS), 7 or 8 ASP/Euroarms (SS&Blued), and 2 Ubertis. Still have the Ubertis & 4 ASPs but no Piettas. My hands are not that beefy and the older Piettas I had were crap. The newer Piettas are supposed to be pretty good now.

Dave Markowitz
March 15, 2013, 10:52 PM
I've owned a few Uberti percussion revolvers (all Colts), a Euroarms 1858, and 3 Pietta 1858s. The Piettas were all purchased from Cabela's within the past 5 or 6 years. They are the equal of any of my Ubertis in fit and finish.

The Euroarms 1858 is not nearly as nicely finished as the Ubertis or the Piettas. OTH, my Euroarms Rogers & Spencer is very well finished, accurate, and has become my favorite percussion revolver.

Blackhawk30
March 16, 2013, 01:18 PM
I looked at one at the local gunshow.it said Cabelas on the box.Nice looking gun,never fired.Brass trigger guard.Sights wern't very visible.

Mike OTDP
March 16, 2013, 10:52 PM
In order:
1. Hege Army Match Maximum (made by Feinwerkbau, actually)
2. Pedersoli
3. Pietta Shooter's Model
4. Pietta
5. Uberti

Dave Markowitz
March 17, 2013, 03:58 PM
I looked at one at the local gunshow.it said Cabelas on the box.Nice looking gun,never fired.Brass trigger guard.Sights wern't very visible.

The 1858s at Cabela's are made by Pietta.

fdf
March 17, 2013, 06:31 PM
1. Pedersoli
2. Cimarron
3. Uberti
4. Pietta, dead last

Slamfire
March 17, 2013, 07:05 PM
Purchased a Pietta M1858. The barrel is so canted that the front sight is almost at 1 OC. The front sight base won't move. Dented it with drifts and it won't move.

Purchased a Uberti M1858, what a nice pistol. Tall front sight was able to file so I got the group centered at 25 yards, was able to drift for windage. Shot well, my impression was that it was as accurate as a modern pistol.

It is my opinion, having talked with Colt at the time, the parts for the Colt Signiture pistols were Uberti with enough polishing, finishing and fitting left to stamp the guns as " American Made".

Hellgate
March 17, 2013, 10:35 PM
Mike ODTP & ftf left out ASM & ASP Remingtons. I've never had an ASM so I can't comment but I'd say the ASPs are about where the SS Piettas are for quality: a pig in a poke. I like the feel and balance of the ASPs but I've had one lemon outr of 7 and for Piettas 3 of 3 for SS Remington NMAs.

zerofournine
March 18, 2013, 07:58 AM
I recently purchased the Cimarron 1858 clone that was specifically engineered for 45 long colt. I think they did a masterful job of building in the extractor and since I didn't need the black powder capability, I think it's a pretty good value since you don't need any extra cylinders. I wan't to get the 38 special version as well.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
March 18, 2013, 02:48 PM
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o127/prizzel/Remimgton45Colt.jpg

robhof
March 18, 2013, 11:00 PM
I would also vote for the ASM, I don't have an 1858, but do have the pocket 31 and several Colt clones from ASM and all were excellent values and shoot straight and handle well.;):cool:

Dellbert
March 19, 2013, 03:42 AM
I have 3Peitta 58s and one Uberti 58 nArmy and I have to say both are very nice but the Uberti is just a better put together gun. Feels good in hand to. I think I want another Uberti 58.:D

damoc
March 20, 2013, 11:36 PM
I have 3Peitta 58s and one Uberti 58 nArmy and I have to say both are very nice but the Uberti is just a better put together gun. Feels good in hand to. I think I want another Uberti 58.:D
well keep me in mind if you need to find a new home for one of those piettas

MCgunner
March 21, 2013, 07:27 PM
I love the 5.5" Pietta, but I'm not going to say it's the "best". It's danged good, all I can tell ya, and I prefer the short barrel for the balance. It's also quite accurate.

oldfogey4ever
February 26, 2016, 12:49 AM
Think the best repro is the Hege-Uberti Custom Match (http://waffen-hege.de/muzzle-loader/3-revolvers-and-holsters/b-closed-frame-revolvers/300-230-remington-1858-lothar-walther-special-cal-44.html).(P.S. - 688.00 euros currently works out to @ $761.10, according to Google's currency translater (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=euro+vs+dollar)).
Comes equipped with custom turbo-beryllium nipples (swirled finished beryllium nipples on cylinder).

They used to carry a accuratized Rogers & Spender (EuroArms was I believe the original manufacturer,) but apparently stopped when EuroArms went out of business.

Branko_D
February 26, 2016, 04:30 AM
In order:
1. Hege Army Match Maximum (made by Feinwerkbau, actually)
2. Pedersoli
3. Pietta Shooter's Model
4. Pietta
5. Uberti

Feinwerkbau is no longer making them or something - there is nothing on the Feinwerkbau webpage and the Army Match Maximum isn't in the Hege shop either.

As of now, the top of the Hege line is a Hege-Uberti Custom Match, which is an Uberti made to Hege specifications, with a few extra finishing touches and with a Lothar-Walther barrel (beryllium nipples and argon hardening of hammer are optional extras). I don't know if it is best, since I did not handle a Pedersoli or Pietta shooter's 1858 (or as they call them here, match), but it is definitely up there.

Driftwood Johnson
February 26, 2016, 09:55 AM
You talking about this one?

Howdy

No, he's talking about this one. What you have pictured is the 1858 Conversion model that comes set up to fire cartridges. These are 1858 Cap & Ball revolvers. The top one is a Stainless Uberti, the bottom one is an old EuroArms/Armi San Paolo that I bought back around 1975. If you look closely, both of these Remmies are wearing cartridge conversion cylinders. The Stainless Uberti came complete with the conversion cylinder when I bought it used some years ago, I bought the conversion cylinder for the older one a few years ago.

One other thing to notice is the front sight on my old EuroArms Remmie is taller than the original sight. Back in the 1970s these guns were imported with much lower front sights. That caused them to shoot pretty high. Before buying the conversion cylinder I had a smith mount a taller front sight from Uberti on the gun. He had to open up the dovetail in order to do so, but the taller sight brought the point of impact down where I wanted it.

Most Remmies today are being imported with a taller front sight pretty much like you see here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/IMG_0560enhanced.jpg



Here is a view of just the old EuroArms with its conversion cylinder. Yes, the frame of the old EuroArms Remmie is slightly smaller than the Uberti, and it weighs a few ounces less. Regarding recoil, that was never a problem with the old EuroArms Remmie while shooting it Cap & Ball. It did become an issue when I started firing full house 45 Colt Black Powder loads with 250 grain bullets. The reason is the grip shape. There is less room between the rear of the trigger guard and the grip than on a Colt or colt clone, so with the stiff recoil from a heavy Black Powder load I was getting my middle finger banged pretty good. The answer for me was to shoot 45 Schofield ammo with only about 28 grains of FFg and a 200 grain bullet. That calmed down recoil enough that I was not getting my finger whacked anymore. But with 30 grains of FFg under a .451 lead ball, recoil was not a problem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/Remmie.jpg



This is a view of the Armi San Paolo marking on the underside of the barrel, underneath the loading lever. It is a DGG in a circle. The company founders were Grassi, Doninelli, and Gazzola, that is what DGG stands for.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/ArmiSanPaolotrademark.jpg



One other thing. This is an R&D cylinder marketed by Taylors. Since it was an old gun, I sent the gun to them to have the cylinder fitted, a service that Taylors performs for free by the way. When I spoke to the gunsmith at Taylors he told me he had fitted a cylinder for a Pietta to the revolver, not an Uberti cylinder. There are slight dimensional differences and that is what he thought fit best.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/RemmieandCylinder.jpg



Personally, I think the workmanship of my old EuroArms Remmie is better than the newer Uberti. I have no experience with a Pietta 1858 Remington, but a few years ago I cheaped out and bought a pair of Pietta 1860 army revolvers. I was disappointed in the workmanship and should have spent the extra money on a pair of Ubertis.

Just my 2 cents.

whughett
February 26, 2016, 11:23 AM
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o127/prizzel/Remimgton45Colt.jpg
Oh my. Instant woody. Gun porn.:o

Crawdad1
February 26, 2016, 07:53 PM
Best 1858 clone?I've always wanted one and with Obama new bans I want to get one while I can.

I would go with either the Uberti or Pietta as you can buy the drop in conversion cylinders for them which makes the revolver extremely useful. I like the Uberti they just seem tighter, better made, but to each is own.


Here is my Uberti 58 Remington (I subsequently sold it) with its forge frame and dovetailed front sight.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199897&d=1403447410






Here it is with its conversion cylinder shooting 200 grain 45 Long Colts at 25 yards, barrel resting on sandbags. This was shot right out of the box I got the revolver that day and went target shooting.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199899&d=1403447477

4v50 Gary
February 26, 2016, 09:45 PM
I like kwhi43@kk.rr.com's loading gate Rem. The Kirst is closer to my budget though.

Indian Outlaw
March 5, 2016, 12:36 PM
The Spanish-made Santa Barbara Remington was the best of the lot back in the day. But, alas, they are no longer made. The old Lyman Ubertis from the early 1970's were arguably the best Remingtons that Uberti ever produced. (Lyman also imported Remingtons from Armi San Paolo.) The current Uberti has a forged frame, which is good, but the fit is not quite to the level of the old Lymans. Nevertheless, Ubertis are still well made and are still a tad better than current-production Piettas. To Pietta's credit, they have improved their guns a lot from the junk they used to make.

Indian Outlaw
March 5, 2016, 12:38 PM
I always liked that antiqued Uberti that you had, Crawdad1.

Crawdad1
March 6, 2016, 09:54 AM
I agree Indian Outlaw those old Lyman Ubertis were excellent Remingtons.

Thank You Sir!!! That was from Taylor's & Company and what a shooter it was!!!!

I just can't see that slender front sight or I would still own it. :o

Indian Outlaw
March 6, 2016, 04:32 PM
I agree Indian Outlaw those old Lyman Ubertis were excellent Remingtons.

Thank You Sir!!! That was from Taylor's & Company and what a shooter it was!!!!

I just can't see that slender front sight or I would still own it. :o
Did you replace the mainspring in that gun with a lighter one, for use with that conversion cylinder? Or did you simply loosen the spring tension screw? Or neither? I am worried about the hammer and/or the cylinder's firing pins being deformed from the hard impact that the stock spring will produce.

Crawdad1
March 6, 2016, 08:11 PM
I received it in the morning and then gutted, cleaned and oiled it then put it back together and went shooting. The action was buttery smooth from the get go and I didn't notice a hard main spring pull on it. I made sure the screw was flush but I just can't recall whether I tensioned it or not. :o

Cooldill
March 6, 2016, 10:50 PM
OP, if you want the best, get a Pedersoli.

You will pay for it though.

One Shot
March 7, 2016, 12:44 AM
Pedersoli

The Pedersoli is made in their custom shop. It has very tight tolerances. It is used at an international level competitors. But you pay extra for this as you would for anything else coming out of a maker's custom shop. I have shot them and they are very accurate.

TruthTellers
March 7, 2016, 01:09 AM
Pietta and Uberti represent the best bang for your buck. Everybody says Pedersoli is the best and they may be, but are unnecessary for the casual shooter/plinker.

The pervasive belief for decades has been that Uberti's quality is better than Pietta, but for people to continue to spew that 1990's view of things just shows how out of touch and how old that thinking is. I have a Pietta; it's great and leaves me with nothing more to be desired.

I have nothing against Uberti, but their prices are higher and while I haven't owned a Uberti, I'm not seeing where the extra $120+ of value is being put in compared to a Pietta especially when the Uberti name doesn't guarantee 100% performance. Back in the day Pietta was apparently well known for low quality and bad fits and finishes, but that train of thought is just so so old it doesn't hold basis anymore. From all I have read from owners of new Pietta's, especially 58's, and from the Pietta I bought last year that runs like a charm for only $220, it's not true.

It's 2016 folks, times have changed.

Cooldill
March 7, 2016, 01:34 AM
The Uberti 1858s have the correct dimensions to the frame and grip. They are also forged guns. The Pietta 1858s, while not bad, have a larger bulkier frame that doesn't balance like an original.

They are cheaper though.

TruthTellers
March 7, 2016, 02:07 AM
The Uberti 1858s have the correct dimensions to the frame and grip. They are also forged guns. The Pietta 1858s, while not bad, have a larger bulkier frame that doesn't balance like an original.

They are cheaper though.
I can understand a person's desire to get the most accurate grip shape or have a slightly smaller size, but I don't think it affects the overall quality of a black powder revolver because they're already big and nobody is concealed carrying them.

A forged frame is always nice, but not necessary.

To each his own.

midland man
March 7, 2016, 03:18 PM
and just like brass revolvers I like them they work fine for me and I don't run hot loads either no need for it!! :) thanks, pietta!

If you enjoyed reading about "Best 1858 clone?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!