Best .357 Magnum Defense Loads?


PDA






LouisianaGunner12
March 15, 2013, 12:49 AM
I've been carrying my 686 4" loaded with .38 Special +P, but I'd like to move up carrying .357 Magnum ammo in it. I practice a lot with .357 anyway, so it would be smarter.

I'd like to carry a load that isn't so hot that follow up shots are difficult, but not the watered down "short barrel" loads either (not any better than .38 +p, IMHO). A 125 grain, 1450 fps load would be preferred, but not the "barn burner" loads. Something with the stopping power that the .357 Mag is known for.

.357 carriers, what ammo do you use? What would be a reasonable load for a 4" 686?

If you enjoyed reading about "Best .357 Magnum Defense Loads?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Texan Scott
March 15, 2013, 01:15 AM
Right now seems a poor time to be choosy. Honestly, if it's a 125gr jhp, it'll do. Get what's on the shelf.

Water-Man
March 15, 2013, 01:38 AM
Winchester Silvertips 145gr. STHP are very good intermediate rounds.

Steve C
March 15, 2013, 02:22 AM
Not sure if you know what you want. The 1,400 to 1,450 fps 125 gr JHP IS the maximum full power load from the big ammo companies and has the reputation as the no. 1 stopping power handgun round from a 4" service revolver. Frankly any .357 mag JHP load is more than adequate for self defense. Personally I use the Remington Golden Sabers which is loaded to a medium velocity of 1,200 + fps that is a lot more potent than any .38 spl load or any other .357 mag 125gr JHP loaded to full power but expect lots of muzzle blast and flash.

ArchAngelCD
March 15, 2013, 02:51 AM
Winchester Silvertips 145gr. STHP are very good intermediate rounds.
I agree, I really like the 145gr Winchester Silvertips too. It's even my favorite load in my M640.

GP100man
March 15, 2013, 04:14 AM
The 38+p loads are a good balance of power,shot recovery ,flash & somewhat easier on the ears . Indoors the noise is precieved to be `bout the same.

I load my SD ammo with a HP 358156 that weighs 152gr. over 4.8 gr CLAYS.
in a 357 case , they chrony at 1100-1150 fps, they do very well in soaking sand.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0371.jpg

Arizonagunrunner
March 15, 2013, 08:15 AM
If you dont want to use the master blaster 125's from Remington or Federal, then I would say use the Remington 158 grn sjhp in the green /yellow box.
This is an awesome round in itself. It is less in recoil and still will get the job done.
Silvertips are a good option also.

ssyoumans
March 15, 2013, 09:46 AM
125's are a hoot to shoot, but do give that Magnum blast. If you are looking to reduce that somewhat, then the advice above on the 140gr bullets is a good choice. I haven't tried the Silver tips yet, but the Hornady 140gr XTP do just over 1300 fps from my 3" SP101, that's over 529 ft-lbs. 6" runs 1425 fps. These are full power loads.

Buffalo bore makes a 'standard load' using a 140gr bullet as well with just a little less blast and velocity. They ran 1200 and 1330 fps from the 3" and 6".

Godsgunman
March 15, 2013, 10:24 AM
I personally like the heavier grain bullets. I'm in the process of developing my own load with 140gr Hornady JHPs. Until then I carry the Remington 158gr SJHPs.

USSR
March 15, 2013, 10:48 AM
Let me tell you my experience with the Winchester 145gr SilverTips, as I used them for deer hunting for a few years. First deer I shot was hit in the spine and went down, which allowed me to walk up and finish it off. With the 2nd deer, I was in my tree stand in the morning when I heard another hunters shot. A deer approached me with a bad hind leg and proceeded to lay down beneath me about 25 feet away. I figured I would put it down for the hunter who had shot it, and shot it in the back angling down into the chest with my 6" M686. At the shot, the deer got up and hobbled off. Couldn't believe it. Anyways, in the afternoon I was hunting nearby with my shotgun when a limping deer comes along. So, I shot it and took it home. Field dressing it showed that it had a mushroomed .357 caliber bullet in the fat and gristle which never penetrated into the chest cavity. I quit hunting with them after that. YMMV, but the lack of penetration with that load turned me off from ever considering using it for serious work. Just MHO.

Don

Water-Man
March 15, 2013, 11:00 AM
I've had the exact opposite experiences hunting hogs with the Silvertips.

sidheshooter
March 15, 2013, 12:32 PM
I'm a silvertip fan, myself. That's what's in my model 13 currently. I am reminded, however, of a quote attributed to Clint Smith roughly along the lines of "if it's hollow on one end and says '.357' on the other, you're probably OK".

Water-Man
March 15, 2013, 01:52 PM
Yes, a good load for a 13.

nathan
March 15, 2013, 02:19 PM
I load mine with Monarch 158 gr SJP bought from Academy. That should be enough to blow through 14 inches of flesh and bones at 7 yds or closer.

Water-Man
March 15, 2013, 02:26 PM
I don't know. They're making animals, two and four legged, tougher these days, aren't they?:rolleyes:

LouisianaGunner12
March 15, 2013, 03:57 PM
Thinking of trying the Speer 125 grain loads. Anyone have experience with those?

Zonamo
March 16, 2013, 01:55 AM
not the watered down "short barrel" loads either...a 125 grain, 1450 fps load would be preferred

You might want to look at Buffalo Bore. Their "watered down short barrel load" shows their 125g JHP at 1,445 fps from a 4" Mountain Gun, just what you asked for.

I prefer their 158 grain load which I can confirm is dead on for velocity when put over the chrono in my own guns, just like everything I have ever bought from them. And it really is low flash, controllable recoil as advertised. The only thing I would caution on is (at least on my last order) they used a semi-jacketed hollow point for the 158 grain instead of the JHP shown in the picture if that is something you would object to.

PabloJ
March 16, 2013, 02:54 AM
I've been carrying my 686 4" loaded with .38 Special +P, but I'd like to move up carrying .357 Magnum ammo in it. I practice a lot with .357 anyway, so it would be smarter.

I'd like to carry a load that isn't so hot that follow up shots are difficult, but not the watered down "short barrel" loads either (not any better than .38 +p, IMHO). A 125 grain, 1450 fps load would be preferred, but not the "barn burner" loads. Something with the stopping power that the .357 Mag is known for.

.357 carriers, what ammo do you use? What would be a reasonable load for a 4" 686?
Actually it would NOT be smarter at all. I use 10x25 and my fav defensive load is Federal 180gr JHPs at about 1100fps which is about equal to .40S&W loadings.

critter
March 16, 2013, 06:45 AM
In a self defense situation, my idea is that I DO NOT want a pass through, but as much 'energy dump' as I can get. Therefore, I'd use light, fast, JHP's made by a good manufacturer. I'd have to think that, absent armor or some such, that you'd get plenty of penetration to be effective-QUICKLY-which is what you want.

I've used them on small vermin and seen what they do.

Sergei Mosin
March 16, 2013, 09:23 AM
I keep my 4-inch GP100 loaded with .357 Golden Sabers.

LouisianaGunner12
March 16, 2013, 11:24 AM
You might want to look at Buffalo Bore. Their "watered down short barrel load" shows their 125g JHP at 1,445 fps from a 4" Mountain Gun, just what you asked for.


I'll order some, if they're in stock. Seems like everyone's out of stock on all calibers these days. Like Texan Scott said, now's not the the time to be choosy but oh well.

Torian
March 16, 2013, 11:37 AM
The 158 bonded gold dots are my choice. Outstanding performer. TNToutdoors did some great ballistic testing on them on youtube.

PlaneJain
March 16, 2013, 11:41 AM
Why would someone use a hollowpoint on a deer anyways? Soft point, I repeat, SOFT POINTs all the way. Save the hollowpoints for bad guys and varmints

easyg
March 16, 2013, 12:08 PM
Here is some data that might help you.
It's the muzzle energy from a 4" barrel:

Rem. Golden Saber 125g = 413 ft.lbs.
Blazer 3542 JHP 158g = 464
Win. PDX1 125g = 487
Fed. Hydra-shok 158g = 494
Sellier & Bellot soft-point 158g = 500
Fed. Hydra-shok 130g = 511
Corbon JHP 140g = 525
Speer Gold Dot 158g = 535
Rem. P&R 158g = 535
Win. Silvertip 145g = 535
Win. Super-X 158g = 535
Corbon JHP 125g = 544
Rem. P&R 125g = 583
Rem. UMC 125g = 583
Win. Super-X 125g = 583
Speer Gold Dot 125g = 584

The data is from the various maker's websites.


And just for a comparison, here are some .38 Special +P muzzle energy numbers, from a 4" barrel:

Speer Gold Dot 125g = 248
Win. Super-X 125g = 248
Win. Silvertip 125g = 248
Fed. Hydra-shok 129g = 258
Win. PDX1 130g = 260
Rem. Golden Saber 125g = 264
Win. Super-X lead semi-wadcutter HP 158g = 278

I hope this helps.

Easy

USSR
March 16, 2013, 12:34 PM
Here is some data that might help you.
It's the muzzle energy from a 4" barrel:

Muzzle energy is merely a calculation involving bullet mass and velocity. Have to laugh when guys say "I want the bullet to not exit so that it expends all the muzzle energy". When dealing with flesh and bone, it's all about penetration and destruction. If a bullet fails to penetrate, it fails, period, and it doesn't matter what the E=1/2mv^2 number is. Just MHO.

Don

easyg
March 16, 2013, 12:54 PM
it's all about penetration and destruction. If a bullet fails to penetrate, it fails, period, and it doesn't matter what the E=1/2mv^2 number is. Just MHO.
Yes, a bullet must penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs and vessels.
But over penetration accomplishes nothing except endangering things beyond the intended target.

If penetration is all that matters then folks would be carrying full metal jacket rounds instead of hollow-point rounds and soft-tip rounds or semi-wadcutter hollow-points.

Take the 9mm Para FMJ rounds for example....
It never had a problem with penetration.
In fact it would often over-penetrate the target and pass clean through, but it was not a greater "man stopper".
But the 9mm performs better as a hollow-point.

The old 158g lead round nose .38 special would penetrate plenty too, but it was notorious for not stopping the bad guys.

Energy is certainly not the only thing that matters, but it definitely matters.
All other things being equal, high energy rounds tend to perform better than low energy rounds when it comes to quickly stopping humans.


Easy

2zulu1
March 16, 2013, 02:38 PM
Yes, a bullet must penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs and vessels.
But over penetration accomplishes nothing except endangering things beyond the intended target.

If penetration is all that matters then folks would be carrying full metal jacket rounds instead of hollow-point rounds and soft-tip rounds or semi-wadcutter hollow-points.

Take the 9mm Para FMJ rounds for example....
It never had a problem with penetration.
In fact it would often over-penetrate the target and pass clean through, but it was not a greater "man stopper".
But the 9mm performs better as a hollow-point.

The old 158g lead round nose .38 special would penetrate plenty too, but it was notorious for not stopping the bad guys.

Energy is certainly not the only thing that matters, but it definitely matters.
All other things being equal, high energy rounds tend to perform better than low energy rounds when it comes to quickly stopping humans.


Easy
KE has little to do with predicting incapacitation times in service calibers. The energy dump myth is just that, a myth.

Through and through shots can cause rapid incapacitation, best exemplified by hardcast WFN bullet designs, plus, one doesn't need to load past 1100fps to do so - 357/180WFN/1100fps. Makes for a great trail carry or for hunting black bears, and it's not high on the KE charts.

2zulu1
March 16, 2013, 03:11 PM
I've been carrying my 686 4" loaded with .38 Special +P, but I'd like to move up carrying .357 Magnum ammo in it. I practice a lot with .357 anyway, so it would be smarter.

I'd like to carry a load that isn't so hot that follow up shots are difficult, but not the watered down "short barrel" loads either (not any better than .38 +p, IMHO). A 125 grain, 1450 fps load would be preferred, but not the "barn burner" loads. Something with the stopping power that the .357 Mag is known for.

.357 carriers, what ammo do you use? What would be a reasonable load for a 4" 686?
Factory 125s/158s will both do the job if the need arises. 158s are in the same sectional density group as the 10mm/200gr. Back in the day nearly all the agencies in the state I worked in, 357s, carried Remington 158gr SJHPs, as did the DEA. Figure the Remington 125gr SJHP through a 4" as a 12" penetrating bullet, factory Speer 158gr Gold Dots 20+".

Given the rural, isolated area that I live in, I load Winchester 158gr JHPs to 1437fps. It's good for about 19.5" of penetration, excellent for any angle of fire on large 4-leg/2-leg vermin. Interestingly enough, increasing the MV of a 158gr Nosler JHP to 1480fps, more energy, the bullet expanded wider than the Winchester 158JHP, therefore decreasing penetration to 15.8".

I tried Hornady factory personal defense 125gr FTX, it's rated at 1500fps, but through an 8" barrel. I found that velocity rating to be very misleading because I was chronographing only 1290fps out of a 4" Dan Wesson. The same Dan Wesson that chronographed 1456fps with Remington's 125gr SJHP. This Remington ammunition is my go to town carry.

golden
March 16, 2013, 03:32 PM
LOUISIANA,

My choice for my .357 magnums are the 110 grain jhp loads. WINCHESTER makes a WHITE BOX version of this load that is pretty mild by .357 standards. My agency used to issue the 110 jhp loads, usually REMINGTON or FEDERAL to officers carrying the S&W model 13.
For officers carrying the RUGER revolvers or the S&W 686, they issued the REMINGTON 125 grain jhp.
It only took one shot to notice the difference on the range, with much more muzzle blast, recoil and a flash that could be seen on a bright summer day when using the 125 grain jhp.
The 125 grain loads had a great reputation in the many gunfights that they were used in. Still, I prefer the less noise, less blast and less recoil of the 110 grain jhp for my own shooting. I found the recoil to about the same or less than the 158 grain +P .38 Special loads.

Jim

fxstchewy
March 16, 2013, 05:00 PM
I think for indoors i would want/like the Buffalo Bore 158 38 +P, shoots like a low end .357 and has low Flash powder.

Water-Man
March 16, 2013, 05:23 PM
I looked up some old records on the Winchester Silvertips.

I read that they penetrated 16.4" in calibrated gel but I don't remember the source. This was out of a S&W 686 4".

Tony_the_tiger
March 16, 2013, 08:20 PM
I use Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast LFN-GC (lead flat-nose with a gas check) for .357 carry.

I made this choice based on three criteria: accuracy, bullet weight, and penetration. Recoil is negligible in a Gp100 and I imagine it wouldn't be an issue in a 686.

http://utahgunexchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/791828-500x375.jpg

Warp
March 16, 2013, 10:55 PM
I don't worry too terribly much about which round I put in my .357. Currently it has Hornady 125gr XTP JHP. I've also carried Buffalo Bore 125gr and 158gr JHP, and Buffalo Bore 125gr Barnes JHP, and Federal C357B, and Remington 125gr SJHP, and various .38spl loads, and and...I wouldn't mind having any of them in it.


Tony_the_tiger: Our ideas of "negligible" are apparently quite different if you consider a Buffalo Bore .357 magnum to have 'negligible' recoil, even in a full size GP100.

Tony_the_tiger
March 17, 2013, 01:20 AM
Haha Warp... I've punished myself by training with a S&W 442 (.38 special) and a S&W 296 (.44 special). Both always leave a lump on my hand, and after prolonged use can cause some bleeding. These days, I've learned to shoot a few cylinders full and leave it at that. Grip positioning and technique can mitigate the risks of shooting with J and L frame revolvers, but it takes some doing.

The Gp100, on the other hand, is wonderful to shoot. However, I perceive 125 grain full-power rounds to have comparable recoil to the 180 grain loads I am using. Both are stout, yet nothing compared to the lightweight guns. Like most things in life, there are trade-offs. The lightweight J frame enhances comfort of carry and ease of concealment. The sacrifice is recoil, sight acquisition, power, and ammo capacity. The Gp100 and 686 are beautiful, highly engineered, and can shoot loads I wouldn't dare to shoot in a lightweight gun. The trade-off is they are a pain in the butt to conceal and are not very comfortable for prolonged carry. Truth be told, I'm on a Remington 870 kick right now for home defense... but I understand its limitations in regards to concealability!

One of the best things about the .357 caliber selections are their versatility. The S&W 686, for example, has several excellent ammunition choices for carry that will match nearly anyone's defense, target, collecting, or hunting needs. Whether it is light and fast, heavy and fast, heavy and slow, hot, cold, warm, or somewhere in between, what matters most is that the shooter has practiced with their ammunition selection to verify accuracy and reliability.

The original poster specifically asked about 125 gold dots, so here is brassfetcher's gelatin video of that round:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7w4M-LNXuQ

On a related note, I must say I agree with Don (USSR), whom posted previously:

When dealing with flesh and bone, it's all about penetration and destruction. If a bullet fails to penetrate, it fails, period, and it doesn't matter what the E=1/2mv^2 number is. Just MHO.

This is my personal sentiment as well. Yet, you'll note the Speer Gold Dot in Brassfetcher's video penetrated through the gelatin block.

Hollowpoints, at times, will not penetrate to the vitals. At other times, they will penetrate completely. The benefits of hollowpoint bullet designs, in my opinion, are outweighed by their unpredictability. #Trooper Mark Coates, RIP.

Firearm safety rule #3 is to know your target and what is behind it. If a hollowpoint fails to expand it will likely behave like a full metal jacket...

Hence the benefit of a hot hardcast wadcutter - it is already expanded to full caliber or near it, it will consistently and reliably penetrate the target, and there are no misconceptions about how the bullet might behave.

For more thoughts on bullet selection, see pages 12-14 of this FBI report.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

RE: Ammunition Selection Criteria

At the end of the day, I've found that I am most comfortable with hardcast lead for the time being. However, I am not advocating this for everyone. I hike very often, and I make my selection based on that and the other environments that I choose to legally carry in. So that is what I have been training with, and Buffalo Bore has been getting the nod. I have also carried gold dots, dpx, xtp, golden sabres... and a variety of brands that have performed very well for me and for others.

I encourage the original poster to try a few different loads and test them for reliability, accuracy, recoil, style, theoretical behavior, manufacturer loyalty, or any other criteria they set, and I am glad they have chosen The High Road as a venue for learning and discussion regarding our shared interests in firearms.

1madss
March 17, 2013, 07:09 PM
Are the low flash powders really lower in flash?

I had picked up a couple of boxes of the BB short barrel 158g jhp(19E) to give them a try to see if there is truly a noticeable difference in flash or not. I bought them to use in a 3" M13 for HD/SD but have not had a chance to try them yet. I thought I would shoot a couple of cylinders loaded alternately with some Magtech 158g that are advertised about the same velocity. Hardly scientific, but with the cost/availability right now it will have to do.

Certaindeaf
March 17, 2013, 07:24 PM
Why would someone use a hollowpoint on a deer anyways? Soft point, I repeat, SOFT POINTs all the way. Save the hollowpoints for bad guys and varmints
I disagree.. common/traditional 158 grain .357 and 240 grain .44 mag soft points are almost too stout to use on deer and way to heavy built for defense. I consider those two to be essentially a solid.

tomrkba
March 17, 2013, 07:27 PM
If you're going to carry 357 Magnum, then I think it's better to go with the hot rounds. You have only six shots, so they may as well "speak with authoritay!"

If you're going to go with a 125 grain bullet at 1200 FPS, you may as well switch to 9x19mm and go with one of the hotter loads. Standard pressure Speer Gold Dot 124 grain JHP chronographed at 1125-1150 FPS from my Glock. Hotter loads are available that can get to 1200+ FPS.

S.B.
March 18, 2013, 01:22 PM
I know my memory has faded and times they are a changin' but, two Detroit LEOs determind long ago that 125 grain Rememington hollow points stop most gun fights faster and with only one shot, faster than any other ammo going.
Steve

easyg
March 18, 2013, 01:25 PM
The energy dump myth is just that, a myth.
Prove it.

A boxer can kill a man with one punch because the boxer transfers (dumps) the energy of his punch in to the body of his opponent.
Energy dump is not a myth.

Tony50ae
March 18, 2013, 02:47 PM
Prove it.

Simple. How many law enforcement cops survived being shot because they had body armor? They absorbed all that energy but in most cases little actual damage was done to their body. Energy dump does not tell the story. That energy must do something useful to work. If I shot you with a 147 fmj 9mm through the heart and the bullet kept going through you, you are most likely gonna die. Now what if that was a 147 hollow point that stopped short of your heart and expended all that energy into you. What good did all that energy dump do?

USSR
March 18, 2013, 02:47 PM
Quote:
The energy dump myth is just that, a myth.

Prove it.

A boxer can kill a man with one punch because the boxer transfers (dumps) the energy of his punch in to the body of his opponent.
Energy dump is not a myth.

It's not any "energy" mathematical calculation that a punch by a boxer may deliver that could concievably kill someone; it's trauma, and only if delivered in the right place. Now, instead of a boxing glove, deliver the same amount of thrust with a sharp, pointed object with the same mass. I'll take the punch any day.

Don

Warp
March 18, 2013, 03:02 PM
USSR hit it: Key word is trauma.

Jaymo
March 18, 2013, 04:50 PM
Trauma that overloads the CNS or destroys the heart and lungs' ability to provide the brain and muscles with oxygenated blood. Profuse bleeding that causes the BP to drop to a point where the body can't function.
These are things that stop an animal, 2 legs, 4 legs, or no legs.

The Buffalo Bore .38 +P lead SWCHP is a very good choice.

LouisianaGunner12
March 18, 2013, 09:18 PM
Doesn't the speed of the bullet help cause more trauma, though?

Jaymo
March 18, 2013, 09:35 PM
Not necessarily. It can, but shot placement and bullet design are more important.
Velocity helps expansion, to a degree, depending on bullet type and construction.

Tony_the_tiger
March 18, 2013, 09:52 PM
Increased bullet mass will increase penetration. Increased velocity will increase penetration but only until the bullet begins to deform, at which point increased velocity decreases penetration.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

In some hollow-point designs, increasing the velocity decreases the penetration. You also have to be careful with highly engineered bullets such as gold dots, which are designed to hold up within certain parameters but, in some calibers, tend to fragment if pushed beyond their limit, very much like lead foster slugs.

In my experience, FMJ full metal jacket ball ammo and round nose ammo performs much differently than LFN lead flat nose or SWC semi wad-cutter ammo. The latter tend to create a larger wound channel and crush through material whereas the former tend to create a smaller wound channel and bounce off things.

Revolver owners are fortunate to have a selection that is independent of feeding/extraction issues common in semi-automatic pistol designs, which gives us more variety in ammo shape.

Warp
March 18, 2013, 09:53 PM
Doesn't the speed of the bullet help cause more trauma, though?

Maybe. Maybe not.


Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is just gravy.

Certaindeaf
March 19, 2013, 12:14 AM
Doesn't the speed of the bullet help cause more trauma, though?
I've seen what I've seen and I think velocity is a prime/disparate contributor..
I think current convention holds that "hydrostatic" shock is essentially true in even marginal calibers.. meaning that even a high speed 9 or so will burst blood vessels in the brain with a center mass hit.

Warp
March 19, 2013, 12:16 AM
I've seen what I've seen and I think velocity is a prime/disparate contributor..
I think current convention holds that "hydrostatic" shock is essentially true in even marginal calibers.. meaning that even a high speed 9 or so will burst blood vessels in the brain with a center mass hit.

That isn't my take on the 'current convention' at all.

Certaindeaf
March 19, 2013, 12:20 AM
That's just fine.

ZVP
March 19, 2013, 02:28 AM
My favorite 125gr JSP Remington load would be my choice as it is normilly readilly available and when shot through my "Pet" 4 5/8" Ruger Vaquero causes low recoil and lots of power! Muzzleblast is middle of the road.
Today I had occasion to shoot a cylinderfull through a Ruger Service revolver and found it to be a painfull experience (Knuckle rappin, uncomfortable on the triggerguard!) The Service model Ruger is much lighter than my Vaquero and the smaller frame puts the recoil where it hurts most!
With a lighter revolver there's not much that can be done when you are in search of real .357 Magnum Punch!
This is why I use the antiquated S/A as my primary carry gun in ,357. Yes I know it's limitations but the basic idea is to hit where you aimed the first round! Multiple attackers and the other 5 follow-up shots are an important consideration and pratice can only cure any questions that may arise beyond that first one...
I try to get in at least one 25 round per week session up with the Vaquero.
ZVP

USSR
March 19, 2013, 07:04 AM
Regarding hydrostatic shock, the Brit's did some research on this many years ago. There conclusion was, it didn't really begin to appear until velocities of 2200 or 2300fps (if I remember correctly) were present. In any case, counting on hydrostatic shock with a handgun is a fools errand. You want a big hole and deep penetration. That's why I moved from the .357 Magnum to the .45 Colt.

Don

LouisianaGunner12
March 19, 2013, 08:37 AM
That's why I moved from the .357 Magnum to the .45 Colt.

What DA revolver do you use in .45 Colt?

USSR
March 19, 2013, 10:35 AM
What DA revolver do you use in .45 Colt?

S&W Model 25-5 with my hand cast bullets as shown below.

Don

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqaA3mjT9Y26Voy4eKpJ7uRdoCw-6WvhAtT3Dao6f1Q9fmpYY2

Kleanbore
March 19, 2013, 12:40 PM
Posted by USSR: Regarding hydrostatic shock, the Brit's did some research on this many years ago. There conclusion was, it didn't really begin to appear until velocities of 2200 or 2300fps (if I remember correctly) were present. In any case, counting on hydrostatic shock with a handgun is a fools errand.You nailed it.

You want a big hole and deep penetration. That's why I moved from the .357 Magnum to the .45 Colt.You want enough penetration, and all other things being equal, a larger wound channel is better than a smaller one.

However, the human body is not a homogeneous structure, and there are a lot of places where one might hit an attacker where a .44 or a .45 would be no more effective than an expanded .32.

Marksmanship proficiency is unlikely to mitigate that risk effectively. The solution is more hits.

As Frank Ettin likes to say, bigger holes are better than smaller holes, and more holes are better than fewer holes.

Certaindeaf
March 19, 2013, 12:55 PM
Regarding hydrostatic shock, the Brit's did some research on this many years ago. There conclusion was, it didn't really begin to appear until velocities of 2200 or 2300fps (if I remember correctly) were present. In any case, counting on hydrostatic shock with a handgun is a fools errand. You want a big hole and deep penetration. That's why I moved from the .357 Magnum to the .45 Colt.

Don
I understand and hear you. Looking at wound tracts is different than looking at vessels/plumbing in the brain. It is my understanding though that trauma to the CNS (brain) can/does result from a CM hit from even "pedestrian" calibers.. ie some 9x19. I'm not really worried about it. just go shoot an unopened tuna can with your .45.. it's a closed system also.. lolz

LouisianaGunner12
March 19, 2013, 01:45 PM
S&W Model 25-5 with my hand cast bullets as shown below.

Don


__________________


Nice! Maybe I should consider getting a Model 25... I imagine recoil and muzzle blast would be pretty tame?

USSR
March 19, 2013, 06:12 PM
Nice! Maybe I should consider getting a Model 25... I imagine recoil and muzzle blast would be pretty tame?

Depends upon how I load it. Plinking loads with 6.0gr of a fast powder; Yes. My deer load propelling those 265gr SWC HP's at about 1100fps; Not so much.:)

Don

If you enjoyed reading about "Best .357 Magnum Defense Loads?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!