Forgotten revolver tips and tricks.


PDA






Thaddeus Jones
March 15, 2013, 01:15 PM
Having read through another thread on this board, I see that there are some young revolver afficianados present here. In that thread I became aware that certain things I was taught as a young LEO, pertaining to fighting and prevailing with a six shot revolver, are evidently lost to the dustbin of history.

While I regarded these revolver "tips and tricks" as common knowledge by those carrying a revolver, they are evidently no longer taught or are unknown to young revolver users. I will attempt in this thread, to share with those who might be interested, the tips and tricks that I still recall.

I would like to request two things for this thread. One, I am no expert. I'm simply trying to pass on what little I recall (due to the onset of oldtimers) if you are an old revolver mossback like me, please relate to us any training tips or revolver techniques you may still recall or use. Two, if you are one of the many who find it impossible to feel "well armed" without seventeen rounds in your handgun and a belt festooned with spare magazines, please refrain from posting in my thread. This thread is not for rehashing the age old "revolver vs semi auto" or six rounds vs abizzilion rounds arguments. That is currently being done a few doors down. Please hit your back button now or go and start your own thread. Thanks! :)

Well, let us start at the beginning. Loading your revolver. When is your revolver "loaded"? An old range SGT pounded into my head, sometimes literally, that your revolver is loaded when there is one round in it. Think about it.

He would march back and forth behind the line, frothing at the mouth, screaming "WHEN IS YOUR GUN LOADED??!! WHEN THERE IS ONE ROUND IN IT!!" This was a reminder that, in extremis, it was well to remember that you could simply drop one round into the cylinder and possibly save your life. You might not always need to try, or more likely under the extreme duress of close combat, fumble trying to load six. We had speedloaders then, but in the not to distant past, at that point in time, dump pouches had been used. In fact some of the older and less dexterous officers still used them at the time. One NYPD officer had been killed while using those dump pouches and trying to reload six rounds in his revolver.

We were also taught to use a 2X2X2 pouch. Much better than a dump pouch. This 2X2X2 pouch held six rounds close together in pairs. You carried it on your belt (it wrapped around) and learned to pull the rounds out in pairs and drop/feed them into the charge holes. With some extensive practice at this it becomes a rather fast way to get back in the fight, in the unlikely event you should ever need to reload during a "gunfight".

A word about "gunfighting" here as I see the term, and opinions of same, cast about rather willy nilly with many opinions presented as facts. The only "fact" I know about "gunfights" is that no two are ever exactly the same.

We were always taught that there were two LIKELY constants in any armed conflict we might engage in as law enforcement officers. One, we would likely be the second person to know we were in a gunfight. Two, we would likely be out of time well before we were out of ammunition. These adages still prove true today as well and may have some value for those armed citizens using a revolver to protect themselves. BUT - one should always train for the worst and hope for the best.

When using a revolver for fighting, be aware that you need not dump unfired rounds in order to reload your sixgun to full capacity. I you fire two or three shots and obtain cover (COVER not concealment, there is a difference! ;)) open your revolvers cylinder and slightly tap up on the ejector rod. Your fired casings will remain up and your remaining unfired cartridges will fall back down into their charge holes. Pick out the emptys and drop in your fresh rounds from your 2X2X2 or loose cartridges carried in a pocket. I always carried two speedloaders, and a 2X2X2 pouch, plus the six I started out with in the gun. 24 rounds. I was proficient and fast with all the reload methods due to endless repititions. Muscle memory is real and you WILL fight like you train.

Well, I'm tired now and hungry so I will stop for now and if there is any interest I will try to return as I'm able and relate what little I still know. :) Best, TJ

If you enjoyed reading about "Forgotten revolver tips and tricks." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Certaindeaf
March 15, 2013, 01:18 PM
Tactical reloads are good. Make sure that under your star, it's bone dry and turn your gat vertical and dump with vigor/gusto. and learn to count

Iggy
March 15, 2013, 02:52 PM
TJ.
Very good post, brings back some old memories.

osteodoc08
March 15, 2013, 02:58 PM
Unfortunately, those tactics you refer to were out of the investigation into the Newhall incident. Several good men died that day. Good advise nonetheless. Also, don't bother picking up empties.

Thaddeus Jones
March 15, 2013, 03:58 PM
Thank you gentlemen. As I don't yet see any objections, I'll drone on for a bit today.

Yes, I recall the Newhall Incident as it was referred to. Very sad day. Prayers sent for the brave officers who lost their lives that day. Better training did come from it

I won't go into speed loading techniques very much here. One reason is that I'm left handed and to watch me speedload befuddled my instructors. ;)

Suffice it to say, there are plenty of videos on the net and many good books/articles instructing on speedloading your revolver. I will say that you cannot practice it enough. Back in the day I practiced it several times a week until it was second nature and I could literally do it in the dark with my eyes closed. And quickly too! Very basic revolver skill to have. Especially if you carry a revolver as your primary self defense piece. We can debate the odds of ever needing to do a speed reload in a fight, BUT - should you have the need, you had better have the skill to do so rapidly and efficiently. Nuff said on that topic.

On the topic of equipment and ammunition I have little to share or opine. I will say that you should inspect your revolver daily, before holstering, for basic things like loose sideplate screws, unscrewed ejector rod, loose thumblatch, dirt/debris/unburned powder under the ejector star AND - if so equipped - the trigger stop. When S&W was selling model 19's and 66's they had a little trigger stop in the slot behind the trigger.

These had a bad habit of working themselves loose and tying up the gun. S&W, to their credit, issued a bulletin advising LE agencies to remove these from the guns. Remove them if yours is so equipped and used for serious purpose. Hold onto the screw though as it is the same as the screw in your sight leaf and makes a handy replacement to have. I will also say that I only use pre lock revolvers for serious purpose. Nuff said on that.

As to ammunition, we used Winchester Silver Tip, Federals Treasury load and a few others I no longer recall back in the day. I advise you to use only factory ammunition is your self defense revolver. Not for the "legal arguments" against handloads, but for reliability and consistancy. Factory ammunition is sealed against moisture.

I know of an officer who was killed in a fight because of old unsealed ammunition. This officer was not much on cleaning his revolver, other than for mandatory inspection. He never changed out his ammunition either. (change it out every quater, its cheap insurance!) Anyways, he evidently used too much oil on his gun and it seeped past into his cartridges primers. His revolver didn't go bang when he needed it to. With tragic results. He was also the second person to know he was in a fight. :(

I use Speer Gold Dot 135 grain 38+P these days in all my revolvers. Snubs and 4 inch service size. I've seen the good results large agencies have had with this load, also known as "The NYPD load". Works for me. Low flash and easy on recoil. VERY accurate out of my revolvers. Use whatever ammunition is most accurate for you and enables you a quick follow up shot. As our instructors stressed to us; "anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice!"

Well, I'm tired of typing again, so I'm going to stop again. I've got an IDPA match and a gunshow this weekend, so I'll stop by again Monday if anyone is still interested by then. :) Best, TJ

Iggy
March 15, 2013, 04:41 PM
Back in those "good old days" I drew and dry fired my duty gun 10 times every day before I went on duty and drew and fired a minimum of 12 rounds on my days off.
Newhall was a wake up call for many of us.

I also practiced reloading with one hand. Stick the gun in your waistband with the cylinder on the outside of your belt and load with one hand.

I spent an afternoon with Bill Jordan. I thought I was pretty fast until then. I did learn some things and got a wee mite faster.

The practice paid off a couple of times. When the stuff hit the fan, instinct took over and I was able to walk away and go home at the end of the shift.

Clippers
March 15, 2013, 05:16 PM
Great information! Keep it coming and I'll soak up as much as I can.

Old Fuff
March 15, 2013, 05:17 PM
When S&W was selling model 19's and 66's they had a little trigger stop in the slot behind the trigger. These had a bad habit of working themselves loose and tying up the gun. S&W, to their credit, issued a bulletin advising LE agencies to remove these from the guns. Remove them if yours is so equipped and used for serious purpose. Hold onto the screw though as it is the same as the screw in your sight leaf and makes a handy replacement to have.

Or simply put the screw back after you remove the stop. The screw itself isn't a problem, and when the sideplate is assembled the screw can't back out. Later if you need it you won't have to remember where you put it.

An alternative is to fit a pin, carefully trimmed to length, inside the rebound slide spring. It can also be set up to block the trigger's travel so that the hammer can't be cocked in the single-action mode. This gives you an effective double-action only trigger pull without making any alterations to the hammer or trigger. Remove the pin (or shorten it) and you have the single-action option back again.

Rexster
March 15, 2013, 07:03 PM
I was attending an excellent two-hour mini-class taught by Michael de Bethancourt at the Snubby Summit in 2005. On the range, during a stage that called for using Speed Strips, as he was talking us through the scenario, in which the attacker was advancing while we were reloading, I was the only one to load two, close the cylinder, and immediately fire those two rounds, while everyone else took much longer to completely reload their cylinders.

To be clear, Michael does, indeed, recommend carrying speedloaders; the object of the above-described exercise was to teach us to engage an opponent, even if one's cylinder is not full. Having used 2x2x2 carriers and Speed Strips for years beforehand, I was already quite familiar with the concept of tactical reloads and partial reloads.

I patrol one of the USA's largest cities, at night, and while I went modern in 1997 by carrying autos on duty, I would not lose any sleep over it, if I had to carry a revolver on the mean streets again. The practicality of an auto is that it is more efficent use of available real estate on the duty belt; my duty belt size setting has not increased since my skinny self graduated from the police academy in March 1984. (I have put on a few pounds above and below the belt line.) When not having to tote handcuffs, Taser, baton, and radio, there is plenty of room on the belt for revolvers and reloads.

Some say that gunfights have become worse, necessitating autos and multiple double-column magazines. While I am not against the concept of having more ammo available, I am just not seeing this. Of course, while wearing a duty sixgun on the hip, I would be wearing a back-up weapon, and in the patrol car, a shotgun, and, usually, another revolver were available. Using revolvers does not mean foregoing ammo availability. Off the clock, these days, I am likely to tote two revolvers, or a revolver and an auto.

rvn67n20
March 15, 2013, 07:16 PM
T. Jones, please do continue. Although of your age cohort, I still have much to learn. Thank you sir!

rvn67n20
March 15, 2013, 07:19 PM
T. Jones, please do continue. Although of your age cohort, I still have much to learn. Thank you sir!

BSA1
March 15, 2013, 08:13 PM
Having read through another thread on this board, I see that there are some young revolver afficianados present here. In that thread I became aware that certain things I was taught as a young LEO, pertaining to fighting and prevailing with a six shot revolver, are evidently lost to the dustbin of history.

Well, let us start at the beginning. Loading your revolver..

.We were also taught to use a 2X2X2 pouch. Much better than a dump pouch. This 2X2X2 pouch held six rounds close together in pairs. You carried it on your belt (it wrapped around) and learned to pull the rounds out in pairs and drop/feed them into the charge holes. With some extensive practice at this it becomes a rather fast way to get back in the fight, in the unlikely event you should ever need to reload during a "gunfight".

Not necessarily true. I carried dump pouches that where steel lined to hold rubber speed strips with six rounds. Lot less fumbling.

Loops can be fast if you bring the empty cylinder of the gun close to the loops at waist level but as you put it required extensive practice to do it fast and fumble free.

Speedloaders are the fastest and most foolproof way to reload the revolver. I carried Safariland which only required a strong push to release rather than turning the knob on HKS.

When using a revolver for fighting, be aware that you need not dump unfired rounds in order to reload your sixgun to full capacity. I you fire two or three shots and obtain cover (COVER not concealment, there is a difference! ) open your revolvers cylinder and slightly tap up on the ejector rod. Your fired casings will remain up and your remaining unfired cartridges will fall back down into their charge holes. Pick out the emptys and drop in your fresh rounds from your 2X2X2 or loose cartridges carried in a pocket. I was proficient and fast with all the reload methods due to endless repititions.

This was outdated from the minute it was introduced. It has been proven over and over that fine motor skills go out the window under extreme stress. As you admit this technique required endless practice.

The Onion Field incident created a lot of controversy about whether to surrender your gun if someone such as your partner is been held hostage. It taught the value of a backup gun.

Newhall taught us to how range practice habits that can get you killed in real life. Dumping empty brass into your hand and putting the brass into your pant pocket so you don’t have to sweep up brass after done qualifying. And not practicing bringing a partially reloaded revolver back into action. It taught us the value of the “New York Reload” i.e. carrying a second handgun (again).

How many remember that the speedloader for a S&W K-Frame duty gun also fit a Colt Detective Special carried for back up?

Poor results in actual shootings showed us the value of using actual duty ammo for qualification.

Well document incidents in the late ‘70’s taught us the danger of using WD-40 in revolvers. I recall three incidents in Illinois where LEO revolvers failed to fire due to combination of cold weather and gummed up actions from WD-40.

We learned the tactical advantage of having your hand on a hammerless J-Frame revolver in your outside coat pocket when making a car stop. Instead of trying to draw your duty gun you simply pulled the trigger on the snubby ruining a perfectly good coat and hopefully the perps day.

We learned the value of the inside thumb break vs. a safety strap that snapped on the outside of the holster for prevention of gun snatchers.

We learned how rubber grips gave the advantage of not slipping in the hand that was wet from rain or blood.

I learned the mere presence of a short double barrel shotgun quieted the rowdiest bar.

I saw first hand how the sound of 12 ga. pump shotgun action being racked could empty a man’s bladder full of beer.

cauldron
March 15, 2013, 09:25 PM
Lets see if I can remember anything...

Unlike an auto, if you have any part of a revolver, you have all of it.

Smiths and Colts turn in opposite directions, and that's important for only loading a couple rounds.

I seem to remember that squib loads are less dangerous because of the gap, and that most of the sound comes out of the gap.

Another neat trick I read about, was that cops were able to open the gun, and lock one cuff through the frame, and the other cuff to a radiator or a water pipe to secure it at home. I don't know if anyone ever did this however.

I do know from teaching people to shoot, that having the off hand thumb over the frame, behind the hammer, is not as big a deal as with an auto.

A cookie sheet, some wax, brass opened up for shotgun primers, and you can shoot in your basement.

I like that one bad load, does not require a 'Tap rack tilt bang' sort of dance. Just another trigger pull.

EDIT: I did know the K-frame detective speed loader thing. but did not remember it! :-)

L-Frame
March 16, 2013, 01:39 AM
I always carry a revolver for CCW (Ruger GP-100 3") and always have Safariland Comp II's in my pocket. I've never carried loose rounds, speed strips or any of the like. For tactical reloads I've always found it much quicker and easier to simply fire 2 or 3, open the cylinder, turn it over, let the unfired rounds fall into your hand, put them in your pocket, smack the cylinder rod and load up with a Comp II. With practice it can be done within seconds. I can't imagine trying to tap the cylinder rod to pull out the spent shells and then load while under any kind of stress. I would have things flying everywhere.

I really like the 2 previous quotes "we would be the 2nd ones to know we were in a gunfight" and "we will run out of time before we run out of ammo". Still very relevant. For the last number of years, I can't remember an officer death by firearm around here that wasn't quick, and up close. Good stuff.

Mat, not doormat
March 16, 2013, 02:57 AM
Lots of info here already, so I'll just add two things.

It is much easier to make a double action revolver behave itself if you keep the trigger under control while releasing it, as well as while pulling it. Just jumping off the trigger will usually lose your sight alignment for you.

Check for high primers. A revolver's gotta revolve. A high primer will bind the cylinder up in a hurry. This is not good.

1911 Magazines make dandy speed loaders for .45 ACP Blackhawk convertibles.

Learn to count.

ArchAngelCD
March 16, 2013, 03:21 AM
Great thread, thank you T.J.

I carry a S&W M640 in .357 Magnum and a S&W M442 in .38 Special. The M640 is loaded with 145gr Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo and the M442 is loaded with Speer 135gr .38 Special +P ammo. Speedloaders are loaded with .38 Special +P ammo as are the Speed Strips because that ammo will fit in both revolvers. I store additional .357 Magnum ammo in the car.

I'm a revolver guy for sure and I choose to carry them because I shoot them well. I trust those handguns and IMO that's important. I don't always carry 2 J frames and when it's a single it's the M442 or at times an old beat up Detective Special. (it's extremely accurate and I like the 6th round) Yep, I'm a revolver guy and I got it bad!

pezo
March 16, 2013, 08:23 PM
Fairly young revolver shooter and carrier here (37) discovered them when in my mid twenties. I don't own a semi auto handgun ( I like a lot of semi auto long guns though milsurp kind). I grew up on auto loaders oddly. I carry an Lcr or sp101 and keep a 3" gp100 at the night stand ( a 6" variant is also frequently used with the heavy loads) I practice loading via hks speed loaders and speed strips like its second nature. Faster when I don't think about it just dump and reload. If you practice I don't see a problem. When you don't practice any platform will be rough when the " " hits the fan. Thank you all for you tips.

westy39
March 16, 2013, 11:20 PM
I joined the PD in 85 and the range officer ( LT. C) was a gruff old boy that hated anything that wasn't a S&W. He kept pounding into us front sight, trigger pull, and reload while watching the target. He would get so pissed if you looked down at your holster when you holstered your gun. The other things he would yell at us for was if someone tried to dump their brass in a pile or worse yet in their hand. (we had to pick up our brass after every course of fire) To this day after almost 30 years later I still dump my brass all over hell and creation, then go back later and pick it up.

gamestalker
March 17, 2013, 03:29 AM
Good post!

I've been carrying wheel guns since I first started carrying many years ago. I will always carry a revolver as my first choice side arm. I am proficient with them, I practice with them, I reload for them, I don't have to fumble with a safety, I don't have to be concerned about unintentionally dropping the magazine out of it, and I know it is never going to fail to feed, or suddenly jam up when I need it the most, just to name a few of the issues I have with AL's.


I honestly can't count the number of people I've personally seen experience feeding problems with their AL's. Most of the time it is either the ammunition they are using, or the manner in which they are holding the weapon. I like the fact that no matter how I'm holding it, or what brand of ammunition I'm using (I reload), my revolver is going to fire.

I have a number of AL's, they just don't get to go as many places with me, unless I'm carrying them as a conceal back up.

GS

Iggy
March 17, 2013, 11:44 AM
That old boy harping on "front sight, FRONT SIGHT!!" had it close to right. When the stuff hits the fan, you may not have time to aim. If you see that front sight between you, you're about out of time.

The most impressive thing I ever saw was Bill Jordan positioning his hand palm down with a quarter on on the back of his hand above his holstered gun. He would then draw his gun and fire, and the quarter would fall in the empty holster.

Then to prove he could shoot, he would put a poker chip on the back of his hand, extend it out in front of him. He would jerk his hand out from under the chip, draw his gun and fire from the hip and hit the chip before it hit the floor.

This is a guy who had to file down the side of the trigger guard of his Model 19 to enable him to git his gorilla size hand on the gun and his finger in the trigger guard.

I did some of that hip shooting stuff, but I never came anywhere near Ol Bill's skills or speed.

dscampbell
March 17, 2013, 11:49 AM
I joined the PD in 85 and the range officer ( LT. C) was a gruff old boy that hated anything that wasn't a S&W. He kept pounding into us front sight, trigger pull, and reload while watching the target. He would get so pissed if you looked down at your holster when you holstered your gun. The other things he would yell at us for was if someone tried to dump their brass in a pile or worse yet in their hand. (we had to pick up our brass after every course of fire) To this day after almost 30 years later I still dump my brass all over hell and creation, then go back later and pick it up.

Yes, I was taught that as well back in 1973. And I still dump my brass. :)


Scott Campbell
Remember wheel guns are real guns too
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Thaddeus Jones
March 18, 2013, 10:53 AM
Iggy I am green with envy at your meeting Bill Jordan! One of the premier revolver shooters, lawmen and creator of the model 19. I'd have loved to meet him and shake his hand. I still have my copy of "No second place winner." It should be required reading at every police academy, IMO.

I'm grateful that many of you who carried revolvers for serious have been kind enough to share your experiences and pass on some revolver "tips and tricks" for the younger, or less experienced, revolver carriers here. Much appreciated.

I don't think we can avoid having a heavy LE perspective to this thread, as LE was really the only place that taught using revolvers to fight and prevail. But I would like to try and pass on some more handling/shooting tips picked up over the years, for those who are not LE but depend on a revolver to insure their safety. I do sure hope one of you starts a thread on your experiences over the years carrying a sixgun and a star. I'd love to read it! And I bet I'm not the only one! :)

As far as LE firearms training goes, it has generally varied from agency to agency, state to state and on a whole, especially during the revolver years, was and IMO to a large degree still is - woefully inadequate.

When I last qualified, 70% was a passing agency score with the agency I qualify with. I have seen a young officer struggling to make a 70. It is still done on a square range at varying distances with no movement other than going prone on the day qual.

Some agencies have better training available. The US Marshal Service use to hold firearms training at various places around the country and opened it to almost anyone interested in attending. There would always be at least one VERY experienced instructor there who had been there done that too.

I understand that there are several rather expensive public shooting schools now that may teach revolver courses. Although a kind fellow in another thread on this board, informed me that nobody teaches the revolver fundementals of trigger control while shooting a revolver.

So, if y'all ain't bored to tears yet, lets talk about trigger control and a few tricks and tips that may have assisted us over the years. It takes a bit of practice to learn a double action trigger pull. IMO, it is well worth learning and if you can master shooting a revolver in double action you can shoot pretty much any type action well.

One fundamental is a smooth steady ROLL of the trigger. Not so much PULL as it is SQUEEZE. So, we use to practice it, alot. One way we did was to put a piece of dark electric tape up on the wall to serve as the "target".

Now, y'all are all grown up folks who are here because you have an interest and are fond of firearms. So to satisfy folks who have legal concerns or are easily distracted by things I will say; CHECK YOUR REVOLVER AND CONFIRM IT IS UNLOADED BEFORE TRYING ANYTHING YOU MAY HEAR SOMEONE TELL YOU OR THAT YOU READ ON THE INTERNET!! IN FACT, CHECK IT THREE TIMES!! There, got that out of the way. Now, hopefully, nobody will be telling their half deaf, fully angry wife, that Thaddeus Jones told me to kill the TV. :uhoh:

Now, with your "target" placed on the wall, get your snap caps out and a couple of speedloaders and prepare to set a spell. Or you could stand and do it. Suit yourself. Bring a .25 cent US Quarter too. I'm fixin to tell you why. ;)

So, now we are ready to practice rolling the trigger without disturbing our sight picture. We might as well practice as much as we can when we have the time to do so, so we will also practice reloading using speedloaders while we are at it. Two birds, one stone and all that.

Take your speedloader and practice loading your revolver using your INERT SNAP CAPS. Now make your sight picture and using the part of your trigger finger just past the last crease, but just right before the pad in the center, smoothly roll the trigger back in one fluid motion till your revolver clicks indicating it would have fired. Did your sights move? Did you wiggle the barrel a little left or right off the piece of tape on the wall? Thats probably because you might have too much finger on the trigger and you need more practice. See where this is going? Practice alot.

Now, after you are doing a three second reload and your sights are just about steady as a rock while you are rolling that trigger back ;) lay the quater across your barrel. Right in front of where the barrel meets the frame. Now show us that smooth rolling trigger squeeze again. So smooth and slick that that quarter didn't even move. Not even when the hammer fell. yours fell off the barrel? Well thats why you have to keep practicing. Till that quarter don't move.

OK I'm tired of typing and hungry again so I'll let folks who can help you revolver carriers with the trigger basics add some good info. See y'all later! TJ

MrBorland
March 18, 2013, 10:54 AM
Good thread. Thanks, folks.

Here are a few "tips and tricks" I can offer than seem useful, whether one's interest is SD or competition:

1. Become proficient with that DA trigger. DA is faster, and can be very accurate to boot. And in a high stress situation, cocking a revolver's hammer out of habit is bad ju ju.

2. Learn to count to 6. Time spent "clicking" is valuable time that's better spent shooting, or reloading.

3. Multi-task when reloading. Time spent reloading is valuable time that's better spent shooting (or re-evaulating), so reload fast. Practice is key, but beyond that, learn to put both hands to work so they're doing 2 tasks simultaneously, not sequentially. Grab a speedloader with one hand while ejecting with the other. Close the cylinder as the gun's being raised, not before.

Baldman
March 18, 2013, 11:41 AM
Good Stuff, new to handgunds as I inherited a colt cobra and will start to train with it in the next few weeks. Any tip is greatly appreciated and welcome.

BSA1
March 18, 2013, 12:10 PM
2. Learn to count to 6. Time spent "clicking" is valuable time that's better spent shooting, or reloading.

Real street experience has shown and still does that when under stress shooters do not count the number of shots they fire. In fact they consistently either under estimate the rounds they fired or only stop pulling the trigger when the gun no longer goes bang.

Another big benefit of not counting your rounds when on the range is the surprise click on the empty chamber will tell you how well you are practicing the basics and doing bad things like anticipating the shot.

Thaddeus Jones
March 18, 2013, 12:20 PM
Congrats on your Colt Cobra Baldman!! :) I carried my 1st generation Cobra as my BUG/off duty for many years. Fine sixgun. I wish Colt would make another run of it.

My family was all police. Father, Uncles, Great Uncles. All Colt men too, except for my Grandfather. He was a S&W man. He put a 5 inch M&P 38 in my hands and taught me to shoot when I was 7 YOA. He had old 5 gallon pickle buckets full of lead round nose.

We would go out to the potato farm fields and shoot all morning...........sometimes all day, till I "got it right!".

My family was quite perturbed when I bought a S&W model 19 for my first duty revolver. I got the Cobra to placate them. ;)

Mat, not doormat
March 18, 2013, 12:21 PM
I don't know much about "real street experience," but I do know a bit about competition. It takes several months of practicing and match experience before most newbs start counting shots. It's an essential match skill, and one that can be learned.

I just don't know whether it can be learned by the average defensive shooter who shoots a box a month.

BRE346
March 18, 2013, 12:49 PM
WOW! There's more smarts here than I've seen in a long time.

Thank you, Officer Jones and all you other LEOs.

Thaddeus Jones
March 18, 2013, 01:47 PM
Mat, not doormat - Competition, excellent point to bring up!

Unlike many who decry that competition is somehow negative or teaches you "habits that will get you killed", I feel competing with your revolver is excellent practice!

While competition is a sport, or game if you will, and is not "training" in the sense that you are not recieving instruction in the use of your firearm to fight and prevail, from a qualified instructor - competition IS good gun handling practice!

Where else, other than in competitions like IDPA, will you practice reloading your revolver all afternoon? And under "pressure" as well, from the clock and your peers. Where else can you "compare notes" with like minded folks on what equipment works - or doesn't work? You may discover during a match that you are having difficulty with your chosen handgun - either with firing it quickly and accurately - or perhaps getting a good grip and fast draw due to the grips you have chosen.

Much better to discover these things about your revolver AND your skill set under the pressure of a clock rather than the terror of live fire from a determined miscreant.

And despite the underlying serious nature of our revolver conversation, let us not lose sight of the most important factor we experience while practicing and shooting our revolvers in competition, it is FUN!! :)

Speaking of revolver grips - or stocks as some prefer to call them, I prefer rubber grips for revolvers used for serious purpose. In fact, my competition revolvers also wear rubber grips. As was previously mentioned by a contributor in this thread, rubber still affords you a grip with wet, sweaty, or bloody hands. Very important.

I remember the armorers getting revolvers ready for issue. They removed them from their packages, took off the wooden factory grips and discarded them in the dustbin. Replaced them with Pacmayrs. I've always used Pachmayrs although I like Hogues as well and there is nothing wrong with Uncle Mikes grips either, if you can find a set.

Wooden grips are for your BBQ gun or your "lookin at" revolver, IMO of course. Some of those pistoleros older than I will disagree and perhaps wooden grips worked well for them. Try both and decide for yourself.

In fact, that topic should be included here in this revolver thread as well. Read all you can. Research using the internet. Talk to fellow shooters at the practice range or the monthly competitions. Try out what you learn that interests you. BUT!! YOU DETERMINE WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU! You decide. Not some instructor or author or TV hero. You. Because ultimately the only person we have to please is ourselves.

Do not be disuaded from a technique, or piece of equipment, because some anonymous person on the internet tells you its junk, or you are foolish for using it, or doing something in a particular fashion. You do what works for you. Regardless of what others tell you.

Allright then. Enough from me today. Lets hear from someone else who has information that will help you handle and shoot your revolver quickly and accurately. :) TJ

MrBorland
March 18, 2013, 02:22 PM
Lets hear from someone else who has information that will help you handle and shoot your revolver quickly and accurately.

A smooth DA trigger pull can be more difficult to maintain when things speed up, since there's a tendency to milk the grip or yank the trigger, even if you've got terrific control when going slower. So here's a tip: Dry fire to a metronome (link below). With something setting a tempo, it's easier to develop a smooth and even DA pull. Slowing increase the tempo while watching the front sight. It's a good time to experiment with your grip as well.

You can also use a metronome to work on smooth and even transitions: set up 2 - 3 targets, and practice dry firing 2 rounds per target with no extra "beat" between targets - IOW, keep your splits and transitions the same.

A metronome is also very useful for working on your reloads.

http://www.metronomeonline.com/


Read all you can. Research using the internet. Talk to fellow shooters at the practice range or the monthly competitions. Try out what you learn that interests you. BUT!! YOU DETERMINE WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU! You decide. Not some instructor or author or TV hero. You. Because ultimately the only person we have to please is ourselves.

Do not be disuaded from a technique, or piece of equipment, because some anonymous person on the internet tells you its junk, or you are foolish for using it, or doing something in a particular fashion. You do what works for you. Regardless of what others tell you.

A good point. Too often, it seems, questions about some aspect of shooting a revolver are met with, say, a Miculek video, as though it's definitive, and nothing more needs to be discussed. Not taking anything away from JM's skill, but his is one way, but not the only. Be a student of the revolver by reading and experimenting as much as you can.


lay the quater across your barrel. Right in front of where the barrel meets the frame. Now show us that smooth rolling trigger squeeze again. So smooth and slick that that quarter didn't even move. Not even when the hammer fell.

TJ - If you haven't seen it yet, you may enjoy my version ;):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmy5mkjpUNI

Thaddeus Jones
March 18, 2013, 02:46 PM
Excellent MrBorland!! :) I quite enjoyed that. Well done sir!

I encourage our revolver afficianado readers of this thread not to despair and fear they cannot duplicate MrBorlands magnificent demonstration of EXCELLENT trigger control.

I'm aware MrBorland is very skilled with a revolver and an accomplished competitor as well. I'd venture a guess that MrBorland devotes time to practice. I'll bet he competes often and works to maintain those impressive skills.

I challenge those who choose a revolver as a carry gun, to practice and work to match his excellent revolver skill! :) TJ

Vica
March 18, 2013, 04:36 PM
Such good stuff. I'm enjoying this class. Keep it up guys. Thank you

fbks ak
March 18, 2013, 05:13 PM
What a great thread guys Thank u so much for all the info.
Really learned a lot about my gp100. Would love to see another
thread for single actions. I know most don't like single actions
for Cd but they feel better in my hand and I shoot them better.
Tom

showmebob
March 18, 2013, 07:21 PM
Some great reading on this thread!
One thing that I do (being a tight wad) is to tape a $5 laser pointer under (or on the side) the barrel of revolvers for dry fire practice. Pick a spot on the wall and dry fire without moving the red dot. Really shows up trigger control and grip issues. Cheaper than laser grips and fast on and off.
I agree with the post to pick what works for you. I'm a lefty, right eyed and practice loading and shooting both left or right.
Keep the great post coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Iggy
March 18, 2013, 09:04 PM
Deleted.Deemed to be ancient, obsolete, and irrelevant.:cool:

MartinS
March 19, 2013, 11:27 AM
Good idea showme, going for tape now.

Certaindeaf
March 19, 2013, 12:04 PM
Don't ever shoot single action with a double action gun.. even for that squirrel way up in that tree (but learn to shoot first, lolz). PPC shooters shoot only DA and keep all their shots within a coffee saucer or smaller out to fifty yards.
There's nothing better, more accurate, fast or deadly than a good revolver.

Thaddeus Jones
March 19, 2013, 12:59 PM
Certaindeaf makes an excellent point. As my instructors from my Grandfather forward drilled into me; "The proper way to fire a double action revolver is in double action. Don't be cocking that hammer boy!"

So, I have spent my decades of revolver shooting.....shooting double action. In fact, one of my favorite, and perhaps one of my most accurate revolvers is a double action only S&W model 64-3. It was a Brinks turn in that J&G had for sale. Based on the NY-1 variant 64.

It has a superb trigger. Smmoth as glass with a crisp release. IMO accuracy starts with a good trigger. You can have a Performance center revolver with a match grade, air guaged barrel and if the trigger is lousy you will not hit squat. A good revolver should have a great trigger. This trade in 64 has a BETTER trigger than my S&W Performance center revolvers. I sh...spit you not!

One can be amazingly fast and accurate when they master double action shooting with a revolver. You don't have to fork over a fortune either to get the equipment to learn how. I saw five DAO model 64's on the auction boards this AM. All of them were between $220 and $269. Get one of those, a case of ammunition........well......that might be problamatic these days.....but, you get the idea. A nice DAO revolver with a great trigger and a case of ammo will give you a good start on your skill set.

While examining my old Colt Cobra last night I recalled another "trick" we use to do. Only police use holsters - according to bad guys anyway. ;) So the plain clothes guys use to take the 1/4 inch rubber bands from the office and wrap them around the grips of their Cobras, DS, Agents and Chief Specials. This way you could stick it in your waisband and the rubber bands would keep it there. I'd forgotten that trick till I saw the rubber bands still on my Cobra.

Heres another trick too, that I mentioned in another thread, but see I've left out of this thread. The old tale that a bad guy will grab your revolvers cylinder and keep you from shooting him. Well, in 25 years of close quarter contact with felons I never saw this even attemted by any mope. I think I saw it on T.V., maybe. Anyways, should some miscreant grab your revolvers cylinder - and you are carrying a S&W - simply twist your revolver clockwise by the grip while squeezing the trigger. It will go boom. Try it. WITH SNAPCAPS ONLY PLEASE!! :uhoh:

If you are carrying a Colt revolver simply twist it counter-clockwise while squeezing the trigger. Same results. Snub revolvers are harder for a miscreant to get hold of vice larger guns. Makes it tougher to disarm you.

My personal policy always was that some mope may get my gun - BUT - he would get it bullets first! Surrender is not in my vocabulary. Id advise everyone who contemplates carrying a revolver to train for the worst and hope for the best. Always be prepared to fight for your life, because someday you may have to. Our close combat instructor use to say; "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog!" Mindset matters as much.......if not more.....than skill with a firearm. Although it would be optimal to possess both simultaneously. ;)

Oh, speaking of close combat with a revolver, in a grappling fight try to push and block with your off hand. With your revolver in your strong hand, go for contact shots. Lower abdomen, pelvic girdle hits will often drop your attacker to the ground enabling you to put distance between you and them or to seek cover, whichever is more approprite at the time. Contact shots to the head work welll too. Just be aware of where your off hand is in relation to your revolvers muzzle. Feet as well for that matter. Sucks to shoot yourself. :(

Lets talk about nice revolvers for a moment. A nice revolver for defensive use will have an excellent trigger and should be accurate. Almost every snub Combat Magnum, model 15, Colt DS, Cobra, Agent I've ever shot sufficed as a carry revolver.

In the J-frames I've ever only owned two. A Chiefs Special and a 640-1. I prefer the 640-1 in a J-frame. It is heavy enough to practice with regularly, something I have not experienced with other small and light weight revolvers. But once again, GO WITH WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!

The last revolver I qualified with and carried on or off duty was a 3 inch 13-3, rendered DAO by my talented gunsmith, with a spurless hammer. It was one slick little carry gun. I have always preferred 3 inch K-frames as "for serious" guns. They simply point naturally and are......."lively" handling guns. The full length ejector rods aid in the positive ejection of empty casings as well.

On that topic, make sure you get in the habit of giving that ejector rod a VERY HEALTHY SLAP! Tilt the revolver up as much as possible while doing so. Nothing messes up your day like having to pick out empty's whilst trying to reload.

Whew! I haven't typed this much in decades. Alright, time for lunch. :) One of you lads take it from here! Best TJ

Certaindeaf
March 19, 2013, 01:17 PM
Ha, great words. I really miss my Model-13 with a 3". Had my armorer hack the spur and disable the full-cock notch too.. smoothed it up too. Long live the K's! Speaking of smoothing, only smooth, don't lighten springs. ever. If the thing won't light CCI's DA (the DA hammer strike is less than the SA strike/hit), something is wrong with it so get it fixed.

PaisteMage
March 19, 2013, 03:03 PM
This is a great thread.
I wanted to do more drills at home with snaps or dummy rounds.
The quarter on the barrell, wow , that is something I could do.

To me, carrying any weapon, it is vital every shot counts. Being a multi-instrumentalist, and a drummer, I know about muscle memory.

All great things I can learn from this thread alone. Things I will pass down to my kids.

Certaindeaf
March 19, 2013, 03:12 PM
Some guys would load/have wadcutters or semi-wadcutters in the cylinder for the greater glee/glory and then some more roundy types after that, just for the speedier re-load. I never had a problem either way but it's true that the more blunt it is, the more finesse might be required to stick it/them. Then you could chamfer the charging holes but only slightly. but you knew that

MrBorland
March 19, 2013, 03:33 PM
make sure you get in the habit of giving that ejector rod a VERY HEALTHY SLAP! Tilt the revolver up as much as possible while doing so. Nothing messes up your day like having to pick out empty's whilst trying to reload.


I eject with my thumb, but regardless, it's good advice to eject with authority and get the muzzle nearly vertical. When practicing your reloads, then, I recommend pre-filling the cylinder with spent cases for each run, otherwise, you run the risk of developing a wimpy ejection stroke, which can certainly bite you when you need it least.

TJ - Did you mention grip yet? About it, I'll only say "get it high". Looking from the side, you shouldn't see exposed backstrap. Looking from the top, the web of my hand meets the very top of the backstrap. It's common to see people grip a revolver too low, which leads to problems with trigger finger placement, as well as excessive muzzle rise during recoil.


Multi-task your reload, eject with authority, and get the muzzle near vertical:
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/becke016/GunsTargets/686reload2012Nats.jpg


A high grip aids good trigger control:
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/becke016/GunsTargets/CoinCropped.jpg


A high grip offers much better recoil management too:
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/becke016/GunsTargets/IDPAindoorNats2012-1.jpg

Chris-bob
March 20, 2013, 02:26 AM
This thread rocks. Thanks.

willypete
March 20, 2013, 04:45 AM
This thread rocks. Thanks.

Agreed, this is an excellent thread. Thank you to all who have contributed your experience. I prefer revolvers to semi-autos and I'm learning a lot!

Thaddeus Jones
March 20, 2013, 10:23 AM
MrBorland I had not really gone into grip. I thank you for your excellent coverage of that very important factor in accurate revolver shooting! :)

Folks, you should also practice getting a good grip from your holster during your draw, as well as when you are on the square range and getting ready to fire. MrBorlands second, or middle photo illustrates how you should grip a revolver. As we cannot see the left side of his hand/revolver in the pic, I'd wager that his thumb is curled downward. Aiding in control and minimizing lateral motion. Please correct me if I'm mistaken MrBorland! ;)

Practice hitting the "sweet spot" at the top of the grips/grip frame with the flesh between your thumb and trigger finger as you practice your drawstroke. This is another area that competition helps you refine.

I had not really intended to cover the fundamentals of revolver shooting here. I do thank MrBorland and all those who have touched on them. I had mearly wanted to pass on some the things that we as revolver shooters had learned back when revolver usage for serious purpose was more prevalent.

But perhaps a quick review of fundamentals is useful here. Stance - Grip - draw - push out/bring up/point - sight picture - trigger control - bullseye.

You must practice bringing all these elements together - in unison - to be successful with a revolver. Now, again, I'm no expert. I'm just an old revolver guy who, through a combination of training/instinct/experience/tactics/a little bit of skill and alot of luck managed to survive on the streets to reach retirement.

I would encourage anyone interested in being accomplished with a revolver to read some of the following works. "No second place winner" by Bill Jordan. This book has more of an LE revolver useage theme, but is still relevant and very useful.

"Tales of the stakeout squad" and "Guns bullets and gunfights" by the late great Jim Cirrillo NYPD. What this fine man forgot about fighting with a revolver, most of us will never even know. Very interesting reading and an excellent training aid, IMO. These also contain the best explanation/instruction on point shooting that I've ever read.

"Fast & fancy revolver shooting" by Ed McGivern. This man could make a revolver sit up and sing. Amazing shooting by a fine marksman. Hard to read due to his writing style and a bit slow.....boring, in places, but it made me a better marksman.

There are other fine works on using/learning revolvers in print out there as well. I hope some of the participants in this thread will list their choices. I can't recall all of the really good ones. Simply the ones I refer back to most often. Oh, Grant Cunningham recently did the Gun Digest publication - "Book of the revolver". Excellent book for the beginner as well as the seasoned revolver shooter.

Do also read the internet writings of the late great Mr Stephen Camp. I learned much from Mr Camp. He was a fine teacher and revolver expert, as well as a great gentleman. He is missed.

Everyone who elects to carry a handgun for serious purpose should seek out some training. In person training with a qualified instructor. I won't comment on the various.....and expensive.....schools out there. Research them and decide whether you wish to spend your hard earned money with them. Do a cost/benefit analysis.

There are less expensive and equally valuable ways to obtain training. Start at your local indoor range. Check the bulletin board there and make inquiry with the range master. Odds are they know a silver haired "revolver guy" willing to give you some instruction.

Ask around at the local matches or competitions. Odds are there is a fine gentleman like our own MrBorland, who is willing to share his experience and skills with you. However, please do keep in mind their time is valuable!! ;) :D There is no free lunch in this endevour!!

I thank all our members who contributed to this thread. I hope the aspiring revolver shooters as well as the old hands learned a bit that might assist them in the future. I know I did, and rediscovered some things as well.

Please continue adding information as you recall it. I know I will be out shooting/practicing with my model 66 and think; "Hey! This is something those kids on the internet board might be interested in!" ;) If/when that occurs I'll be sure and post again here! :) Best, TJ

MrBorland
March 20, 2013, 12:50 PM
I had not really intended to cover the fundamentals of revolver shooting here. I do thank MrBorland and all those who have touched on them. I had mearly wanted to pass on some the things that we as revolver shooters had learned back when revolver usage for serious purpose was more prevalent.

TJ - I'd like to thank you for your kind words, and for an excellent thread containing some excellent advice from a wheelgunner with some "in the trenches" experience. Revolvercraft demands strong fundamentals, so some review is always a good idea. They might also help one implement some of the fine points you and others offered.

As to revolver writers and famous lawmen you mentioned, I agree and can only add one other name - Jelly Bryce (http://www.gutterfighting.org/jellybryce.html). Well worth a quick read.

You also bring up another terrific point - revolver shooters are generally very friendly and very willing to help if they can, so don't feel shy about asking or even trying a local match with your revolver. If the latter, ask to squad up with another revolver shooter, and I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help.

I started competing with a revolver because it's what I had at the time. But, to my great fortune, the revolver community in my area is strong and has been very helpful, so I learned a lot and progressed quickly. I try to emulate their example whenever possible. If you're in the Raleigh/Durham, NC area and are interested in shooting a match with your revolver, feel free to PM me.

As we cannot see the left side of his hand/revolver in the pic, I'd wager that his thumb is curled downward. Aiding in control and minimizing lateral motion. Please correct me if I'm mistaken MrBorland!

Well...:o...eh...:o...I personally use a thumbs-forward (and "thumbs-off the gun") grip, like one would use on a semi-auto, but that can be a hot topic, and one best left for another thread. ;)

Good shooting, all!

MrB

spm
March 20, 2013, 08:53 PM
Best revolver post I have ever read on any forum. Thank you Mr. Jones, Sir!

Vica
March 21, 2013, 02:35 PM
I agree with spm, great post. I just finished lunch with my wife in our home above our our office here in Sarasota, Florida and I said that I wanted to sit down for a few minutes with my Ipad and see if there was anything new from Thaddeus Jones. She said, "who???". Uh, never mind.
I'm a pretty inexperienced range shooter and even more inexperienced with CCing my sp101/ 2.25. So I (many of us) ate up this thread that TJ and MrB spent time sharing. I'm sorry it is over. Many thanks,

Certaindeaf
March 21, 2013, 02:50 PM
.I'm sorry it is over..
It's never over! lolz. Though I've been trying to rack my remaining braincell to help contribute, I'm sure the collective will come up with something further though.
Speaking of over, what I said is true, especially for half n00bs.. practice until it is over.. ie you are dead.. and grip that thing like you mean it.

Jim K
March 21, 2013, 03:28 PM
I am going against the grain (!) on wood grips. I have been shooting double action so long I think Adam was my first student (something about fast shots at a snake), but I did not have a modern DAO revolver. So when I got my 642 with the rubber factory grips, I went out to try it and my hand got so beat up and sore I couldn't hit anything.

So I rummaged around and found a set of the old wood stocks that let my middle finger fit right up against the frame like I was used to. Sure enough, no sore hand, and I was back to normal accuracy (under 2" at 7 yards). So for me at least, all that business about super grips made of goose down or horse... or whatever doesn't cut it. I think the folks who designed those grips really did know what they were doing.

Jim

murf
March 21, 2013, 05:45 PM
if you want a lot more very good info on revolver shooting, do a forum search on "mrborland".

i have never seen any bad info from his posts.

murf

Vica
March 21, 2013, 07:37 PM
Thanks for the search tip

MartinS
March 22, 2013, 11:08 AM
Thumb forward, out of contact with the gun or thumb down, curled and part of the grip on the weapon. Seems like the former is better for shooting, the latter better for holding on to the gun in a scuffle. Which would be the default? Thumb down in a death grip I think.

BSA1
March 22, 2013, 12:41 PM
This is a great topic. It is bringing back lots of memories.

Another tip I just remembered is we would place a small piece of rubber tubing over the hammer. This would keep the sharp checkering from wearing against our clothes causing them to fray (especially nice for plain clothes sport jackets) while still giving a non-slip cocking surface.

We would usually get a piece of tubing from the hospital E.R. while flirting with the nurses.

sgt127
March 22, 2013, 10:57 PM
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j277/sgt127/photo-4_zps11a9c720.jpg

For any new kids that want to know about about the things we are talking about, I'll try and provide pictures.


An old Don Hume 2X2X2 dump pouch
an HKS speedloader
and a Speed Strip

And, I didn't have to dig any of this stuff out of a bin. They all go along with either the 3" 65 I carry most days off duty or, the Smith 642 I've carried in my pants pocket of my uniform for most of the last 20 years or so,

fragout
March 23, 2013, 08:57 PM
Just wanna say thanks to all that shared thier knowledge here.

Please keep it up.


11B

Tortuga12
March 23, 2013, 10:44 PM
Can we get this "sticky"-ed? Would sure like to see this discussion continue to grow! Maybe with enough help I'll be able to shoot my k-frames worth a darn!:banghead:

tubeshooter
March 23, 2013, 11:39 PM
This has been a great and informative thread!


Thanks to all - and I hope it continues.

MrBorland
March 24, 2013, 09:16 AM
I love that 2X2X2 dump pouch. Gonna have to get one.


Here's a tip & trick: Keep a skinny pen handy.

A case that ends up under the ejector star is a hassle. And one that manages to fully re-insert itself into the charge hole can really ruin your day. Plucking it out with your fingers will take a minimum of 30 seconds to a minute. So, keep a skinny pen handy. Use it to simply push the case out from the front of of the cylinder. It's also handy for ejecting .45acp rounds that were shot without a moonclip.

Before sticking the pen in your pocket, though, make sure it's skinny enough to fit inside a case.

tomrkba
March 24, 2013, 03:43 PM
Now, y'all are all grown up folks who are here because you have an interest and are fond of firearms. So to satisfy folks who have legal concerns or are easily distracted by things I will say; CHECK YOUR REVOLVER AND CONFIRM IT IS UNLOADED BEFORE TRYING ANYTHING YOU MAY HEAR SOMEONE TELL YOU OR THAT YOU READ ON THE INTERNET!! IN FACT, CHECK IT THREE TIMES!! There, got that out of the way. Now, hopefully, nobody will be telling their half deaf, fully angry wife, that Thaddeus Jones told me to kill the TV.

I always use AZOOM Snap-Caps for safety. This forces me to open the action, swap out the ammo, stow it in the gun safe, and double check I'm using Snap-Caps. The revolver can handle the hammer landing on an empty chamber, but the wall cannot handle a bullet.

Derry 1946
March 24, 2013, 04:15 PM
Second the motion on a sticky. For a fast reload, consider the half or full moon clip. The plastic ones work great and are very inexpensive. A 1917 .45 is an intimidating beast muzzle-on.

Thaddeus Jones
March 25, 2013, 03:25 PM
Well I'm surprised, and glad, that this thread is still going. Good on y'all!

Did we cover placing your thumb behind the hammer on reholstering? Its a good habit to get into. While the only guns I've ever seen go bang while reholstering were NOT REVOLVERS, its still good to get in the habit of placing your thumb on the at rest hammer spur, as you reholster, so as to be able to detect any hammer movement early on - BEFORE something bad happens.

I was out and about the last few days and was able to peruse quite a few gunshops. Lots of revolver deals and steals out there right now. I picked up a cosmetically challenged but mechanically magnificent 4 inch 15-4 for $250 OTD.

I looked at another 3 inch 10-8 but it was more of a custom hybrid revolver. Aftermarket barrel and unknown trigger job and aftermarket parts. I passed.

Also had the opportunity to shoot a little bit and help two young ladies learn how to run their J-frames and work a speed loader.

That experience led me to my current thought. "Doing more with less". What with the ammunition shortages and price gouging going on, its hard to come up with 150 rounds for a range session these days. Let alone the $200 for 150 rounds that these damn scalpers want for it!

Well, another beautiful thing about a revolver is you can still train without shooting live rounds. Just break out the snap caps and speedloaders and get to work. Draw, dry fire, and practice a fast reload. Then repeat! :)

IMO you will get much more out of your next range session, where you can concentrate on fast accurate fire using 50 rounds, when you have your revolver operating basics already down pat. Thats what I've been doing.

How bout y'all? ;)

sgt127
March 25, 2013, 07:42 PM
When times get tight, the old Smith Model 18 and .22 Diamondback get to see a little more daylight. I always thought the Model 18 and a 15 (or 19)were the perfect set of guns.

I have shot thousands of rounds through those two guns. Hope to shoot thousands more, and, the guns will last forever shooting that round.

Once you load a revolver, close the cylinder and, point it in a safe direction. Pull the hammer back just a little bit to drop the cylinder stop and spin the cylinder. (DON'T touch the trigger). You can assure yourself that there are no high primers on any of your rounds.

The trick of reaming out the flash holes on .38 cases, priming them and then pushing them through parrifan bars, cookie cutter style, for indoor practice rounds? I shot an awful lot of those in my garage. I always used regular primers. The only reason you reamed them out a little is so the primers don't back out and tie up the gun.

shootr
March 25, 2013, 09:04 PM
Thanks to all for the great tips!

JERRY
March 25, 2013, 09:20 PM
good speedloaders will make a world of difference when under stress.

i recommend safariland comp I, II, or III depending on your revolver.

Mat, not doormat
March 26, 2013, 12:43 PM
The advice to dry fire is excellent. In a lot of ways, dry fire can be better practice than live. Some of the ways in which this is true are obvious, like the fact that it's cheaper and more available, since you don't need to buy expensive ammunition, or make special trips to expensive ranges to do it.

Other ways are less obvious, however. First, defensive shooting, (which is, by and large, the subject of this thread) requires many more skills than simple marksmanship. Drawing, smooth operation of a DA trigger, target transitions, and movement are all important considerations for a self defense shooter which are easier to practice dry and at home than they are at the usual square range.

Even more than that, however, since dry fire doesn't bring with it the sound and fury of live, it won't add to, and may even decrease a tendency to anticipate a shot or flinch.

I've long thought, (and my competition experience reinforces this) that the best, fastest, and soundest way toward improvement is good instruction, followed by lots of dry fire, and a little bit of live. Good instruction, to learn what and how to practice. Lots of dry fire to really train those skills into the subconscious mind, (often called muscle memory.) And live fire to keep a check that the dry fire isn't drifting toward shortcuts that make dryfiring better/faster, but undercut live fire performance, like weak grips, and the like.
If the skills thus developed can be tested and refined under the stresses of competition, one may have achieved the perfect regimen.

Certaindeaf
March 26, 2013, 02:48 PM
Very true, Mat. Further, big brains have found out that simple mental visualization, after of course mastering fundamentals, is tremendously valuable in high end competition.. ie Olympic level whatever.

FERLACH
March 26, 2013, 07:35 PM
A lot of good ideas on here.

tomrkba
March 26, 2013, 09:05 PM
Reading list:

The Gun Digest Guide to the Revolver by Grant Cunningham
No Second Place Winner by Bill Jordan
Guns, Bullets and Gunfights by Jim Cirillo

wiringlunatic
April 3, 2013, 11:42 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't grow up shooting much and love my revolver (a now somewhat beat from carrying Taurus 82) It shoots way better than I do, but with some of these tips, I may start to catch up. :D I'm always very hesitant to dry fire -- is it absolutely impossible to harm a gun doing it? (excluding .22's of course) I know dry firing is good practice, and the semi guys do it all the time, but I still hate to. Gotta get snap caps I guess and gotta get a speed loader. Currently I only have the 6 in the gun with me. I'll vote for the sticky -- whoever decides that, PLEASE do it -- someone's life may depend on it. Until they sticky it, I guess we just need to keep bumping it! :evil:

Ok TJ, MrBorland, etc, we're waiting for more tips!

Mat, not doormat
April 4, 2013, 12:41 AM
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't grow up shooting much and love my revolver (a now somewhat beat from carrying Taurus 82) It shoots way better than I do, but with some of these tips, I may start to catch up. :D I'm always very hesitant to dry fire -- is it absolutely impossible to harm a gun doing it? (excluding .22's of course) I know dry firing is good practice, and the semi guys do it all the time, but I still hate to. Gotta get snap caps I guess and gotta get a speed loader. Currently I only have the 6 in the gun with me. I'll vote for the sticky -- whoever decides that, PLEASE do it -- someone's life may depend on it. Until they sticky it, I guess we just need to keep bumping it! :evil:

Ok TJ, MrBorland, etc, we're waiting for more tips!
There are no absolutes, but no modern, quality centerfire should be hurt by it. And in the highly unlikely event that one is, how much is a firing pin? $20? Compared to the potential cost of not acquiring all the skill you can muster?

Old Fuff
April 4, 2013, 10:37 AM
A broken firing pin or mashed firing pin spring could cost one plenty if it happened at the wrong time. The risk can be substantially reduced if one uses a set of quality snap caps - available from www.brownells.com as well as others.

Dry firing is good for both the shooter and the revolver if this simple precaution is taken.

Thaddeus Jones
April 4, 2013, 10:38 AM
I think we mentioned getting the maximum benefit from every round fired, when practicing. Especially these days when ammunition, if you can find it, is double the price it was just six months ago. So, I've been doing drills with the last twelve rounds in my 50 round boxes.

I use a B27 standard target and two 5x7 index cards for this drill. Take the two index cards and tape one vertically on the head of the silouette. Take the other and tape it horizontally in the center chest of the target. Now, move the target out to the one yard line.

Most indoor ranges prohibit working from a holster. Thats all well and good. If you can work outside drawing from a holster for this drill, thats probably more realistic practice, but indoors you can simply lay your revolver on the stall table in front of you. No matter, as the point of the drill is practicing "flash sight picture" and trigger control, giving you fast accurate hits. Any hit not on the index card is a miss. Your round broke the edge of the index card? Yes, sorry, you missed! ;)

We will be firing "fast pairs" for this drill. The difference between fast pairs and "double taps" as I was taught, is that we will be taking the time, however short that is (and the shorter the better!) to form a flash sight picture and control our trigger during our two double action shots.

We are working "hot" loaded with live ammo so all safety rules will apply. Whether you are working from the holster or the table at the range, we are enforcing the "four rules"!!

Now, load your revolver and lay it on the table in front of you facing down range. Check your stance. You are practicing to fight, so stand as you would when preparing to fight. Relax your shoulders and arms and BREATH! Steadily and normally. Look at the index card you intend to shoot first, it matters not which one you choose. Look on the card for where you intend the first shot to strike, now see the second point of impact. ENVISION both hits on the card. If you believe it will happen and train to make it happen it WILL HAPPEN!

Pick up your revolver quickly and safely, adjusting to your proper grip as you bring the sights up and align them with you intended point of aim. We are using a FLASH SIGHT PICTURE which means that you will be putting your front sight on your point of aim and aligning your rear sight as you start your trigger press. Altogether, at the same time, and as quickly as you can safely do so.

So, pick up - adjust grip on the way up - support hand coming together as front sight is approaching point of aim - trigger starting to roll back - front sight is just about at point of aim - rear sight is almost aligned - trigger approaching the break - TLAR (that looks about right!) BANG!! - reposition the sights coming out of recoil - front sight coming down to point of aim trigger half way back rolling not slapping aligning revolvers rear sight TLAR!! BANG!!

There!! You have 2 hits on the center of the 5x7 index card approximately 5mm apart in under two seconds!! WELL DONE!! :) What? :o You only had one hit at 1 o'clock and the second shot was off the card? :( No matter. Those index cards aren't shooting back and its the first time you have done this. At least you are out here trying to improve your skills. You are making the effort to learn! you should be proud of yourself for doing this. I'm proud of you for doing it! :) The drill may appear simple but it is not easy.

Eventually, with time and practice you will be able to get two fast hits, millimeteres apart, at distances out to 15 yards and maybe beyond that. It all depends on you. You are the final arbiter of whether you are accomplished, skilled and well armed with your revolver. Not anyone else.

I wish you good, safe, fast and accurate shooting! :) Best, TJ

MrBorland
April 4, 2013, 11:23 AM
I know dry firing is good practice, and the semi guys do it all the time, but I still hate to. Gotta get snap caps I guess and gotta get a speed loader.

There are no absolutes, but no modern, quality centerfire should be hurt by it. And in the highly unlikely event that one is, how much is a firing pin? $20? Compared to the potential cost of not acquiring all the skill you can muster?

Well, there's dry fire, and there's dry fire. I can't say for certain that all guns are immune to damage from the latter, and, depending on the gun, fixing a firing pin can cost considerably more than an Andy Jackson. When in doubt, use snap caps. That said, I've got several tens of thousands of dry fire trigger pulls on a couple of my revolvers without snap caps, and all is well to date.

The benefits of "dry fire" go way beyond trigger control, BTW: Dry fire is an excellent way to improve your gun handling skills, for example. A quick & smooth draw from concealment, a good index (i.e. natural point of aim), efficient reloads, movement from one position to another, and transitioning from one target to another are all things that can be work on via dry fire drills without even having to pull the trigger. There are plenty of these types of drills available on-line. Check out Ben Stoeger's 15-minute plan (http://benstoeger.myonlineplace.org/joomla/?option=com_content&view=category&id=46&Itemid=64), or Matt Burkett's nifty online drills (http://www.predatortactical.com/cart.php?m=knowledgebase_detail&id=5). You really don't need a par timer or special targets, btw. Just you, your gun, a speedloader, dummy rounds, and a holster.

Dry fire is effective as a trigger control and gun handling exercise, but to really get the most out of dry fire, you must also use dry fire as a vision exercise. To shoot well, you need to see what you need to see. It's this ability to see what needs to be seen that makes a good shooter a good shooter. I go back to my coin drill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmy5mkjpUNI) - nice trigger control, but zero visual input, so had I actually been shooting, the target would've likely told a sad tale.

Seeing what needs to be seen is a skill that's deceptively tough to do, though, so it needs to be worked on just like any other skill; done correctly, dry fire is where this skill is strengthened. Conversely, dry fire without regard to visual cues can reinforce shooting without critical visual cues, which is a euphemism for bad shooting.

Good shooting, all!

Certaindeaf
April 4, 2013, 01:00 PM
Very good words. Dry firing is very valuable. I've never had a problem with any centerfire DA revolver breaking parts by dry firing.. and I dry fired a few a bunch. There's always a risk though.
I did break one Hi-Power firing pin retaining plate after I don't know how many dry-fires and 50,000 rounds. The plate cost like a dollar and was/is simple to slip in.. all good.
As others said, learn to call your shots, no matter how fast or slow and you know if you hit the target, ammo or no. Make sure to hit it though.

murf
April 4, 2013, 01:22 PM
another benefit of dry-fire is safety. coopers four rules apply here and should be practiced religiously, especially rule number one. THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED ALL THE TIME.

check the weapon first, every time you handle it, and make sure it is unloaded. pop the cylinder out on a da revolver, open the loading gate and spin the cylinder on an sa, lock the slide back and remove the magazine on an automatic, open the breach on a single shot. get in the habit and you won't have to think about it. get in the habit and you will always know you have a loaded or unloaded weapon. may save your tv from an nd, or may save your life knowing your weapon is fully loaded.

oh, that rule about the gun always being loaded is for the shooters benefit. the gun doesn't care if it is loaded, or not. treat it as if loaded and you will not point it at the wrong thing and you will keep your finger off the trigger. and you will always check and make sure it is unloaded before you dry-fire.

murf

sgt127
April 4, 2013, 11:03 PM
I can shoot a revolver very fast. I can hose rounds out of a 1911 a little bit faster. But, if I'm trying for AIMED shots, they are about the same.

The trick is as soon as the gun fires, and, you are recovering from the recoil and realigning the sights, you are already loading up the trigger so that as soon as the sights settle in again, the draw stroke completes and, the gun fires the next round.

That dwell time, while the front sight is off the target anyway, is not wasted. With practice, its very simple to get the timing down. Just like a good draw stroke, theres no wasted time or energy. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

wiringlunatic
April 6, 2013, 12:20 AM
I have used spent shells as snap caps before, especially on a rimfire I was working on. Is that a safer alternative to true dryfiring? I realize that checking whether it is loaded or not becomes more complicated when the "snap caps" look the same as real shells, but other than that is it ok? If so, I can get started on these practice drills right away. Besides, snap caps may be sold out just 'cause they LOOK like bullets :neener:

Also, are the spent shells ok for the rimfires or will it still damage them after a few shots when the shell gets mashed?

One other question for you wheelgunner experts: my wife has an H&R topbreak in .32 S&W with a 1 1/4" barrel, a nearly microscopic grip, and a very hard DAO trigger. Is it possible to shoot this straight, or will the hard trigger forever condemn it to belly gun status?

Old Fuff
April 6, 2013, 12:43 AM
With both center and rim fire, fired cases don't work for long. The better snap caps (available at www.brownels.com) have red colored heads for easy identification, and a spring supported plunger in place of a primer. They are moderately expensive, but worth it in the long run. You still might break or batter a firing pin, but it isn't likely.

I suspect that from your description you have a later model I-J revolver with a coil mainspring. If you remove the stocks you should notice that the spring is held at the bottom by a plate held at the front and back. They're 3 slots so that the plate can be moved up and down, increasing or decreasing the mainspring tension. Other then that you can't do much. Tinkering with the spring will reduce reliability.

wiringlunatic
April 6, 2013, 01:11 AM
If by I-J you mean Iver Johnson, I don't think so. I've been told it's a 1914-1915 "bicycle" variant H&R vest pocket revolver. whether it has a coil mainspring or not I can't say -- I've never had the grips off. I guess my real question is -- is it possible to get accuracy with practice with a very stiff trigger or not? I'm sure the trigger could be made some better (adjusting/cutting the mainspring, smoothing the sear, etc) but I'd rather not put much time or money into a gun that isn't worth very much and risk damaging whatever antique value it has. Is there anyone out there who can achieve reasonable accuracy with a very short barrelled DAO with a very stiff trigger?

wiringlunatic
April 9, 2013, 11:24 PM
Hello? Does anyone have an answer for me? There's some real revolver experts on here and I was hoping someone could tell me if accuracy is possible with this gun. Will training and practice overcome the gun's deficits?

tomrkba
April 10, 2013, 09:24 AM
You are going to have to shoot and dry fire that gun extensively. I do not know if your gun is robust enough to withstand thousands of rounds and dry fires. Besides, something will eventually break and you may not be able to find parts. I think it would be better to shoot it occasionally and use an S&W Model 442 or 642. If you insist upon using it, then acquire a full set of springs and small parts before starting. But, it would be much better to buy a gun from Ruger or S&W.

Google for videos:

The Bump Drill
The Wall Drill

chriske
April 10, 2013, 09:34 AM
"Reasonable accuracy", "very short barrel" & "very stiff trigger" are somewhat subjective of course, but while I don't consider myself by any means a great shot, I usually can manage 3 inch 5-shot groups with my S&W 640 (2" barrel, DAO) at 15 meters.
Admittedly, the trigger pull, albeit "coil spring activated" is pretty nice.

MrBorland
April 10, 2013, 10:06 AM
I wrote out a reply earlier this morning - just before my computer crashed. :fire:

Anyhow, I can't speak specifically to your H&R, but snub-nosed revolvers aren't generally inherently inaccurate; they're just harder to shoot well, so training and practice will likely help a lot. A good action job by a good gunsmith can make quite a difference, too, as would grip mods. At this point, though, it might be worth considering something else entirely.

As others note, though, "accuracy" is subjective. A snub-nosed revolver was designed for up-close work, so if you're able to consistently put your rounds into the CoM at 5-10 yards, you and your H&R are accurate enough, IMO.

Thaddeus Jones
April 10, 2013, 11:31 AM
Shooting snub revolvers accurately is simple. It just isn't easy. ;)

tomrkba
April 10, 2013, 11:52 AM
Shooting snub revolvers accurately is simple. It just isn't easy.

It requires lots and lots of proper practice, both live and dry fire. A tuned trigger really helps.

Ohio Deputy
April 10, 2013, 01:09 PM
There is something very comforting about having a magnum revolver in your holster and it seems to be very uncomfortable to those who are on the other side of the fence.

chrisb507
April 10, 2013, 08:15 PM
Besides, snap caps may be sold out just 'cause they LOOK like bullets...

For rimfire dry fire, most places aren't sold out of #4 drywall anchors, which work quite well for .22 lr. I'm not 100% sure how they'd work in an auto, but can vouch for them in a revolver...

sgt127
April 10, 2013, 10:06 PM
Hello? Does anyone have an answer for me? There's some real revolver experts on here and I was hoping someone could tell me if accuracy is possible with this gun. Will training and practice overcome the gun's deficits?

Froma realistic standpoint, no. The gun you described was designed and marketed as a close up, personal defense gun a long time ago. It has an exceptionally short sight radius and, by your own description, a horrible trigger. It will do what it was made to do at a price point that made it available to almost anyone who needed a pocket gun.

My Jetta TDI does a dandy job of getting me from point A to point B everyday. It has an engine and four wheels. However, I have no desire to run it up against a Formula 1 car, that also has an engine and four wheels, at the track. Different tools, different jobs. Enjoy it for what it is, theres alot of history in the old break tops.

wiringlunatic
April 11, 2013, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Just to clarify, I have no intention of this being my primary carry gun, that duty goes to my Taurus .38 which can and always will shoot better than me. I was just curious, as a gun that hits nothing is not much fun, but a gun that can hit consistently if and only if the shooter is good enough is a fun challenge. I'd have trouble finding enough ammo for it to practice much as it is only made in limited runs and even finding cases to reload may be tough. Like I said, mainly a theoretical question, though it could have application to a future carry gun. For the record, it is a 1 1/4" barrel and about 20lb (maybe more) trigger pull. Fun toy, but needs to have that become its full-time job description, (my wife carries it now) Keep the tips coming guys. Hope I didn't distract from the main topic too much!

orionengnr
April 11, 2013, 09:33 PM
Very entertaining and informative thread.

First handgun I ever fired was my dad's 1911, back when I was a little shaver. First handgun I ever bought was a 1911.

I always thought revolvers looked like the cap guns I played with as a kid.

Finally bought one about age 22--it was a POS Rossi, and it turned me off revolvers for another 25+ years. I finally bought an old S&W M66 about 9 years ago, and since then I have owned probably 25 S&W revolvers (mostly one or two at a time). Still have the M66, though, and a couple N-frames.

There is something very elemental and satisfying about a good revolver--much like a radial aircraft engine. :)

This thread is making me want to dig out the M66 and take it to the range. For some reason I am also considering buying a j-frame again after several years' absence. :)

Great job, gentlemen.

tomrkba
April 11, 2013, 09:46 PM
Other ways are less obvious, however. First, defensive shooting, (which is, by and large, the subject of this thread) requires many more skills than simple marksmanship.

I find this so hard to convey to so many people. They simply do not believe it. Even worse, there are those who spurn training because they believe they may disagree with the instructor on some tactical point. It really is amazing.

One tip that may be helpful:

Grant Cunningham in The Gun Digest Book of the Revolver spends quite a bit of time going over trigger control. Try sliding your finger across the face of the trigger as you pull back. I found also that a slight tightening of the fingers as you pull back. I simultaneously tighten the inside of my thumb against the frame. I am careful not to disturb the sights and cause the round to strike off target.

Baldman
April 12, 2013, 10:09 AM
Hey Guys, likely a stupid question but I've seen the posts relating to dry firing using snap caps. I have never used them but like then idea of a little more pratice time without the expense or travel to the range.

I have a Colt Cobra and have never dry fired it out of concern for the firing pin, if I use snap caps will it reduce the risk of damage to it or is dry firing just a no no for this model?

Thanks

kBob
April 12, 2013, 11:09 AM
Just a quick note or two.

First great to see this thread and thanks to all you current and former LEOs for your service and sharing tips.

I saw a comment on practicing with wax loads. THe poster meantioned cases modified for shotgun primers......Geroge Nonte recommended using whatever pistol primer you had on hand and simply opening up the flash hole on a set of cases then marking said cases for use only with the wax bullets. I did as Nonte suggested and drill out to the size flash hole he recommended ( don't remember at the moment, sorry) and notched the rim of some .38 SPL cases and used this to practice presentation with a single shot or multiples. Keep in mind that shooting wax especially in multiple shots is not like shooting lead bullets in that there is no recoil to speak of.

At one point when I had room mates that were interested in revolvers for home defense I pre pared a multi layered old blanket and card board affair as a back stop and they fired wax bullets in their bedrooms at a card board tombstone from their defensive positions while trying to operate a phone or flash light. This allowed them to do the full drill from alert to arm to query and light and begin 911 call (phone unplugged but in hand) to assess threat and Identify target and firing.

Later it was pointed out to me that the lead in the primers might be an issue if done much, but I figured a few popped primers (like five or so) once I a while was no more threat than the ancient paint in that place.

I also preferred handloaded dummy rounds for practice on reloads with or without strips or speed loaders. This because the weights were right and they handled differently than snap caps I tried.

Speaking of obsolete out dated and not all that smart to begin with.....I used to keep five round in a 35 mm film canister in my glove box for a cheap reload. I found that while ejecting with the fram I the left hand and handling the canister with the right that one could count on three to four rounds dropping into the charge holes if one alighned the canister with the cylinder while the barrel was up and rotated the gun muzzle away from you while twisting the canister slightly. As has been pointed out some rounds in the cylinder beat no rounds in the cylinder when you need them right now and it took no longer than loading single rounds from my old plastic ammo wallet.

Say no one has meantioned those old things...ammo wallets. I used a six round for concealed carry in the way back and an eighteen round for tossing in the glove box for plinking or whatever. WIth the eighteen I had various loads available from my carry rounds of the time to Speer shot capsule type shot loads, some barely clear the barrel wadcutters, and a pair of wax loads and at one point some of what were supposed to be flares. ( never tried them until years later and then out over the Gulf where no trace was seen)

Having muddied the waters I now make my exit.

-kBob

Old Fuff
April 12, 2013, 11:32 AM
I have a Colt Cobra and have never dry fired it out of concern for the firing pin, if I use snap caps will it reduce the risk of damage to it or is dry firing just a no no for this model?

Snap caps will work fine in your Colt Cobra and any other Colt center-fire/hand ejector revolver, and dry firing will tend to burnish contact points within the lockwork and make the action smoother.

What breaks firing pins is when there is nothing in the chamber to absorb the hammer's blow and the firing pin takes the impact. Colt used to carefully fit the firing pin so that the hammer face would hit the frame and the firing pin wouldn't. But as time went by and labor costs increased this kind of hand fitting went by the boards except on more expensive target guns, and later still (sometimes) on the Python.

JFrame
April 12, 2013, 11:47 AM
Possibly the best THR thread EVER... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_doubleup.gif

Along with all the invaluable tips, insights, and recommendations, I very much appreciate the friendly tone.

I agree with others that this thread should be a "Sticky."


.

Baldman
April 12, 2013, 12:48 PM
Thanks Old Fuff, looks like I'll be getting snap caps this weekend.

Corpral_Agarn
April 12, 2013, 01:19 PM
Just wanted to thank all the knowledgeable contributors to this thread! THANK YOU!

And, believe it or not some of the mentioned Double Action Trigger Drills have been helping me with my Sig autoloaders! :cool:

repawn
April 12, 2013, 02:05 PM
Thank you all for this excellent thread. I have recently purchased a revolver and have started to train with it. I would like to hear more about proper grip - I hold high with a thumb down grip and have been trying different things with my off hand. I still often get a slight twitch to the right - not all the time but too often for me. For dry fire I marked up some cases - loaded a 168 rn and used a leather punch to make "primers" - that seems to work well.

Thaddeus Jones
April 12, 2013, 03:40 PM
Over the years I've noticed that those who shoot revolvers well, shoot all types of handguns well.

Mastering a revolvers DA trigger pull will help you control.............just about anything else. :)

YJake
May 1, 2013, 12:17 AM
Over the years I've noticed that those who shoot revolvers well, shoot all types of handguns well.

Mastering a revolvers DA trigger pull will help you control.............just about anything else. :)

Amen...

-Jake

91/30
May 4, 2013, 05:17 PM
As a young revolver guy I was very pleased to find this thread. I'm saving my pennies for either a model 1917( either colt or smith) or a model 19, and either a detectives special or cobra. Thank you for passing on the knowledge, it's greatly appreciated.

easy8
May 5, 2013, 01:16 PM
Wow, great tips. I carry a snub everyday. At the range I only reload from strips its amazing how fast you get when you practice. I leave the middle blank so i have two rounds a blank space than two rounds easy to drop two in like this very fast.

kBob
May 5, 2013, 05:40 PM
For a bit I carried a six shot strip with a five shot revolver loaded 2 space 3. This allows easy two load easy two of three and maybe the fifth if it did not get knocked off.

Anyone tried those rubber speed loaders Dillon has in his catalog that hold cartridges arranged like an HKS type but is pulled off to the side? Of course I have no catalog on the desk at the moment to find the name of the blamed things........

I had some issues with the Taurus 85 while working as a range master. SOme of the early guns had such close cylinder gaps that only a little shooting could bind them up. It made me pay a lot more attention to keeping the front of the cylinder and the face of the forcing cone not just clean , but carbon free after seeing a few of those stop and wedge themselves shut to the point a rubber mallet was needed to open them. I took to using a "carbon Free cloth" (not sure the EPA allows those any more) or even a mild abrasive to the affectied parts

Of course all the auto shooters on hand for those were all over the whole revolver more reliable argument as obviously one COULD NOT just pull the trigger and keep going. Oddly in the midst of that time I had a shooter come up with a Browning P35 High Power that was well and truly jammed shut on a commercial reload that also required a rubber mallet to open and that shut some folks up.

Of and on the 1917 issue I would really love a Colt, but in my experience the S&W actually is a better all around gun. I like modern full moon clips of steel better than the old half moons and the newer plastic full moons so I am half old fashion. Quit loading Auto Rim as cases got hard to find.......

-kBob

91/30
May 5, 2013, 06:11 PM
kBob, thanks for the input on the 1917s though the price isn't very different I am looking for the better reviled. Is there anyone who has vast carry experience with both smith and colt 1917s who could have some input?

kBob
May 6, 2013, 10:36 AM
During the months and few hundred rounds I owned a Colt 1917, I just found it more unwieldy or "clunky than the S&W. I had heard much of the supposed super DOuble Action trigger pull, but honestly it was dreadfully long and not at all like say a Python, Diamondback, or even a Mark whatever.

When all wsa said and done that S&W was still an N frame and fit right in with the Model 27, 28, 29s I was also shooting at the time and that may be part of my bias against the Colt.

To me the Colt just seemed.....well big bulky and late 1800's and the S&W seemed more modern and sleek.

I sold my Colt to a Buddy that was a Marine Officer and he wore it in a shoulder holster while on a Med tour serving as Beach Officer in Spain, Greece, and Italy. The fact that he wore than and a S&W 1917 on his right hip and a big honking Randel Number 2 with Polished bone grip and gold colored fittings on his left caused him to receive all sorts of attention.

He shot qualifying scores with both, something he had trouble doing with the 1911A1 dispite my best efforts. I think his Navy Flier Dad implanted a fear of the 1911A1 in him at an early age as his Dad carried a Victory Model S&W in the pacific and when he needed a pistol later in life.

When he married and started to thin the herd, the Colt left and the S&W stayed for the rest of his 27 years service. I might consider that if I was in an either or situation or wanted one or t'other for a defensive handgun.

BTW I still have a S&W 1917. For what ever reason in North and Central Florida it seems at shows that the Colts cost more for less quality that is condition.

-kBob

Thaddeus Jones
May 6, 2013, 01:11 PM
I'm quite surprised and very happy to see this thread continuing! Well done gentlemen! Please keep passing on the fine information for the younger six gunners here!

I was given a book a few weeks back. The authors name escapes me, as my oldtimers is acting up today, but the title is "The modern day gunslinger."

It is of course slanted primarily to the employment of semi auto pistols but it is chock full of fine information on gunhandling and shooting techniques/training/drills. I've not yet finished it, but I hope to in the very near future.

It brought back many things I'd forgotten over the years and quite a few new ideas, to me anyway. I highly recommend it.

I will be taking the 4 inch 66-4 to the range this weekend to employ some of the suggested drills in the book. I will post back on how it goes.........IF I remember to do so....... ;) :D

Carry on gents! :)

If you enjoyed reading about "Forgotten revolver tips and tricks." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!