1st person arrested under New York's new SAFE Act


PDA






usmarine0352_2005
March 15, 2013, 02:26 PM
.

Well, this is how you turn a law-abiding citizen into a criminal.



I wonder if he will go to trial or plead out. If he goes to trial and is convicted I wonder if he'll appeal it and how far it could go. Interesting how they called it 2 semi-automatic rifles, rather than go with the standard 2 "assault rifles".





http://www.pressconnects.com/viewart/20130315/NEWS10/303150007/Western-NY-man-is-1st-arrested-under-NY-s-SAFE-Act




.
Western NY man is 1st arrested under NY's SAFE Act

7:10 AM, Mar 15, 2013


HANOVER, N.Y. — Authorities say a western New York man apparently is the first person to be charged with violating the state’s gun-control law.

Local media outlets report that state Attorney General Eric Schneiderman says 32-year-old Benjamin Wassell of Silver Creek was charged Thursday with felonies related to the sale of illegal weapons.

Schneiderman says he twice sold weapons that are prohibited under the New York Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act, passed by the Legislature in mid-January. Officials say the violations occurred later that month and again in February in the Chautauqua County town of Hanover, 30 miles southwest of Buffalo.

Prosecutors say the sales involved two semi-automatic rifles and more than 300 rounds of ammunition.
.
.

If you enjoyed reading about "1st person arrested under New York's new SAFE Act" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
627PCFan
March 15, 2013, 02:29 PM
"Didnt have his own attorney".

Wonder if that will hose him down the line. Its bad enough not to have one with normal laws that are commonly understood, less let a fresh law with no other cases on the books-

SilentStalker
March 15, 2013, 02:30 PM
I think I would get me a good lawyer, the backing of the NRA, and take this all the way to the USSC.

AlbertH
March 15, 2013, 02:47 PM
I think I would get me a good lawyer, the backing of the NRA, and take this all the way to the USSC.
IF the NRA feels it is a worthwhile case is the big question.

It is going to take the right type of person and a case that they know can make it all the way to the U S Supreme Court before any organization puts up the millions it will take to defend such a case.

What the guy should actually do is plead his case on YOU TUBE or FACEBOOK and ask for donations to help pay for his legal fees. George Zimmerman got what, $60K in donations.

Certaindeaf
March 15, 2013, 03:02 PM
Bloomburg is probably jumping for joy, with his giant sized slurpee.

Grmlin
March 15, 2013, 03:10 PM
and don't forget his Cheez-it's (those are Bloombergs weakness don't ya know!)

Hopefully he gets a good lawyer and some backing.

Certaindeaf
March 15, 2013, 03:14 PM
I got nothing real nice to say so

wvtarheel
March 15, 2013, 03:23 PM
You don't need the NRA. Call Alan Gura, the guy who represented Joseph Heller in Heller v. DC. If he doesn't want to take this one on I bet he knows someone who would.

coloradokevin
March 15, 2013, 03:29 PM
It saddens me to see someone charged with a felony for activities that have been enjoyed legally by many of us, for many decades. As we all know, things may be getting a bit more complicated here in Colorado (for the time being), but as things currently stand it sure isn't a crime to sell someone a "semi-automatic rifle and 300 rounds of ammunition".

The New York lawmakers would probably have a heart attack if they saw the stuff that most of my law-abiding friends have on hand.

I hope this guy can get a good lawyer, and I hope those of you in NY are working to get these ridiculous laws overturned on the basis of Heller, the 2nd Amendment, or whatever else you can use. I've heard rumor that a judge has already asked the legislature to prove the constitutional validity of these laws, so hopefully something will get shot down in the mean time on the basis of an injunction.

Certaindeaf
March 15, 2013, 03:30 PM
Hmm.

usmarine0352_2005
March 15, 2013, 03:58 PM
.

Update: Looks like this guy is an idiot who sold to an undercover cop after the cop told him he was a felon.




http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/15/new-york-state-gun-law-arrested/1990899/





.
Tough new gun law in New York state nets first arrest

Kelly Dudzik and Douglas Stanglin, USA TODAY2:13p.m. EDT March 15, 2013


The new gun control act was passed after the Newtown schools shootings


According to court documents, the sale included an AR-15, nearly 300 rounds of ammo and six magazines and an AR-10 semi-automatic rifle along with 31 rounds of ammo and one magazine.

During the investigation, prosecutors say, the undercover officer told Wassell that he or she was a convicted felon. Under the SAFE Act, it is illegal to sell an AR-10 to a felon.

Prosecutors said they have an audio recording of Wassell allegedly telling the investigator, "this whole felony banned for life thing, it's stupid."

The AR-10 was treated as an assault weapon covered by the new gun law because it allegedly had a specific type of pistol grip.

The Observer newspaper said the alleged sale, which totaled $1,900, took place in two meetings in Hanover, N.Y., one at an Aunt Millie's Restaurant and the second outside a bowling alley.
.
.

Tinker
March 15, 2013, 04:06 PM
The AR-10 was treated as an assault weapon covered by the new gun law because it allegedly had a specific type of pistol grip.

Just lovely.:mad:

KingMedicine
March 15, 2013, 04:09 PM
Okay, as stupid as this is, the guy selling to a guy admitting he's a felon is stupider and only makes us look bad. It's not that hard to sell anything right now while not breaking the rules.

jamesbeat
March 15, 2013, 04:17 PM
Isn't it illegal to knowingly sell any gun to a felon anywhere in the country?
I think the SAFE act part is that the gun he sold was an 'assault weapon'.

sonick808
March 15, 2013, 04:38 PM
I don't have any sympathy for anyone that sells to someone who says they're a felon. A stranger to boot. Seems to me the SAFE act has no relevance here other than some tack-on legal/plea bargain fodder

usmarine0352_2005
March 15, 2013, 05:05 PM
.

Great, this idiot is the perfect example for Cuamo and Bloomberg to use as why they needed to ram this legislation through. Morons like this guy are obviously selling guns as we speak and killing babies right now they'll say.
.

GambJoe
March 15, 2013, 05:06 PM
Was this guy know by LE to sell fire arms to criminal types? Or was it a case of entrapment? Sounds like he has some time coming to him.

tarosean
March 15, 2013, 05:13 PM
The Observer newspaper said the alleged sale, which totaled $1,900, took place in two meetings in Hanover, N.Y., one at an Aunt Millie's Restaurant and the second outside a bowling alley.


Hmmmmmm.. Anyone else find that odd for two AR's, Mags and ammo in today's market? Wonder if they were stolen to begin with?

Arbo
March 15, 2013, 05:16 PM
At first I thought this might be a good starter case, then read the update that he knowingly sold to someone that said they were a felon. Screw him, he deserves all the time he gets.

AlbertH
March 15, 2013, 05:29 PM
Hmmmmmm.. Anyone else find that odd for two AR's, Mags and ammo in today's market? Wonder if they were stolen to begin with?
The price or availability? as far as availability goes, they have been available at all three of the gun shows I have been to since mid January, and it quantity.

HankR
March 15, 2013, 05:35 PM
IF the NRA feels it is a worthwhile case is the big question.

It is going to take the right type of person and a case

In the past it's taken some other parties to initiate the case, the case to look like it's going somewhere, then the NRA jumps on the bandwagon so as to claim credit when fundraising.

gym
March 15, 2013, 08:10 PM
Hit the Smith & Wesson AD, and send another round of emails to the politicians who allowed this to happen. If we stop fighting they win.

9teenEleven
March 15, 2013, 08:15 PM
If the cop isn't a felon, then how is he selling to a felon?

usmarine0352_2005
March 15, 2013, 08:20 PM
.

I guess if he believed be was selling to a felon and he's also violating the new SAFE Act.
.

Fishslayer
March 15, 2013, 08:28 PM
Whoa... $1900 for an AR15 + 6 mags, an AR10 and 300rds of 5.56?

That's a pretty good deal. ;)

WoodchuckAssassin
March 15, 2013, 08:35 PM
Sigh. I grew up in Ellicottville, NY - not far from Hanover.

Guess I'm glad I live in Virginia now.

Coop45
March 15, 2013, 08:38 PM
This all smell weirds to me. An AR-15, AR-10 a bunch of mags and 600 rounds for $1900 and the guy is released on his own recognizance? Was the guy that bad of a business man or is this just an off broadway production presented by New York?

gbran
March 15, 2013, 08:45 PM
Hey, one day you are a law-abiding citizen, the next day you are not.

danez71
March 15, 2013, 08:47 PM
Isn't it illegal to knowingly sell any gun to a felon anywhere in the country?
I think the SAFE act part is that the gun he sold was an 'assault weapon'.

Either way.... by citing the SAFE act, Bloommy can claim that his laws are working.

Sauer Grapes
March 15, 2013, 08:58 PM
Mama always says, stupid is, as stupid does. :rolleyes:

OilyPablo
March 15, 2013, 09:05 PM
I guess if he believed be was selling to a felon and he's also violating the new SAFE Act.

That's what I was thinking........but how is the law actually written?

baz
March 15, 2013, 09:40 PM
Sounds like this guy was set up. Sure, he's stupid is as stupid does, but it is like the cops saw a sucker and he went for the bait. I doubt it rises to the level of entrapment, but it just seems like a bit too staged to me.

coloradokevin
March 16, 2013, 05:53 AM
Funny how the facts have changed since I last looked into this thread. If he sold to someone who claimed to be a felon, then he got what he had coming to him.

Marty183
March 16, 2013, 06:49 AM
Funny how the facts have changed since I last looked into this thread. If he sold to someone who claimed to be a felon, then he got what he had coming to him.

I concur

Sent from my ADR8995 using Tapatalk 2

Carl N. Brown
March 16, 2013, 06:50 AM
This is not really a SAFE act case boys and girls even though an AR-15 and AR-10 were involved.

This is selling to an undercover posing as a felon case, which was illegal under previous federal and state laws.

You don't win civil rights for the law abiding by defending Stagga Lee; you win civil rights for the law abiding by defending Rosa Parks. That's the way the court of public opinion works.

That is why it took two squeaky clean cases, Heller and MacDonald, to get clear cases on 2A. The previous unclear 2A cases, Miller and Emerson, were a moonshiner and a domestic violence defendant repectively.

You can defend 1A rights with Larry Flynt as a defendent. To win 2A rights, you need a defendent who has dirty feet because he can walk on water.

hso
March 16, 2013, 07:45 AM
During the investigation, prosecutors say, the undercover officer told Wassell that he or she was a convicted felon. Under the SAFE Act, it is illegal to sell an AR-10 to a felon.

Prosecutors said they have an audio recording of Wassell allegedly telling the investigator, "this whole felony banned for life thing, it's stupid."

It was a felony to sell any modern firearm to someone you had reason to believe was a felon before the SAFE Act, so claims that his arrest is related to the SAFE Act is pure propaganda from the Antis.

We should be debunking their claims and not trying to defend this guy.

statelineblues
March 16, 2013, 10:04 AM
And of course the anti-gun politicians in NY aren't done yet (from GunAction.com)...




(GunAuction.com) New York lawmaker Linda B. Rosenthal want to prevent kids under 12 from going to gun shows in the state, and shes introduced a bill to accomplish that.



A March 14 tweet from Rosenthal (@LindaBRosenthal) said, I just intro'd bill to prevent kids under 12 from going to gun shows. Kudos to @AGSchneiderman for agreement on Model Gun Show Procedures. Shes a New York State Assemblymember (D/WF, Upper West Side).



So, in the Gun Ban State, it might soon be a crime to show 11-year-olds how firearms can be displayed safely and purchased by law-abiding citizens.



Obviously, what Rosenthal is trying to do is ensure that the tradition of firearms ownership cant be passed on to the next generation, and that the safe and lawful use of firearms becomes a crime one step at a time.

vito
March 16, 2013, 10:36 AM
Many, many years ago, while repainting a room in the house we had just bought, my wife found an old semi auto, I believe it was 32 caliber or the metric equivalent. At the time I did not want to keep it so I went to several gun stores, none of whom were interested in buying it. So I placed an ad in the local paper, and sold it for what I was asking to the first person who called. He paid cash, never gave me his name or any other information, and I never asked. I never even thought that what I was doing might be illegal. It was just a private sale, much like selling an old lawnmower or chest of drawers, etc. Things have sure changed, especially in some parts of the country.

r1derbike
March 16, 2013, 02:12 PM
Selling to a person who admitted he was a felon. I'm at a loss for words here. Flummoxed.

Even though this was a sting, this guy needs to be educated. Perhaps after being convicted of a felony or two, and labeled a prohibited person, with some time possibly attached, he will have learned something.

As much as I abhor NY's new firearms laws, this guy knew selling to an admitted felon was wrong.

TRX
March 16, 2013, 03:37 PM
> Selling to a person who admitted he was a felon.

Selling to a person who CLAIMED he was a felon. Not the same thing.

And, given the buyer's occupation, probably WASN'T a felon.

ACP
March 16, 2013, 04:38 PM
Hah!

As far as I am concerned, anyone who knowingly sells a firearm to a self-confessed convicted felon can do as much time in jail as the state will allow.

See you in 10 years, imbecile!

blue32
March 16, 2013, 04:50 PM
It doesn't matter if the leo isn't a felon. Unless the facts are not straight, the seller was told from the buyer he was a convicted felon. Intent to sell to convicted felon + overt action of completing the sale = guilty. This is no different than doing an undercover drug buy and would be a crime without the SAFE act.

I do not know, but I bet SAFE appropriated some language from previous laws to include selling firearms to people you believed are convicted felons. So yeah, it probably does involve SAFE, however, this doesn't prove anything for SAFE. Unfortunately, those facts will not be distributed to the masses.

HorseSoldier
March 16, 2013, 04:58 PM
It doesn't matter if the leo isn't a felon. Unless the facts are not straight, the seller was told from the buyer he was a convicted felon. Intent to sell to convicted felon + overt action of completing the sale = guilty. This is no different than doing an undercover drug buy and would be a crime without the SAFE act.

+1. I've never heard of it being an affirmative defense in contract murder cases that the undercover "hitman" wasn't actually a killer for hire.

Barring additional issues to this story that are not being reported yet, this guy deserves what he has coming down the judicial pipeline to him. Rallying to the defense of a guy who provides plenty of propaganda boost for Universal Background Checks is a a losing proposition for our side.

Derek Zeanah
March 16, 2013, 05:08 PM
I saw a thread on another forum that went through this same scenario, except he refused the sale, they kept increasing the price, he kept refusing, and they arrested him and released him (and the rifle) after a few hours.

Maybe that was outside Chicago? Regardless, it's interesting that the same sorts of stings are happening now.

Coop45
March 16, 2013, 05:16 PM
The guy has to be working for the anti's. Nobody would be that dumb.

highbrow
March 16, 2013, 05:44 PM
In NY, cops are felons in the making.

Ragnar Danneskjold
March 16, 2013, 05:52 PM
The funny thing is that every single person posting on this forum has probably committed a felony in their lives, but just didn't get caught/prosecuted. Probably not even knowing what they did was illegal or a felony. The amount of laws that carry felon penalties in this country is astronomical. We're all felons.

PabloJ
March 16, 2013, 06:14 PM
Willing to sell firearm to a felon? He needs to be put in jail.

hso
March 16, 2013, 06:37 PM
The funny thing is that every single person posting on this forum has probably committed a felony in their lives, but just didn't get caught/prosecuted.

No, most of us here haven't unwittingly committed a felony.
Misdemeanors, probably, but not felonies.

ACP
March 16, 2013, 09:29 PM
BTW, hso hit the nail on the head -- we should all be calling/writing the newspaper to tell them their lede and headline are wrong -- this guy would have been arrested under OLD NY laws, not just the new ones, so stop trying to sell me month-old bread..

The media are 1000% ignorant on even the most basic firearms facts and background.

r1derbike
March 17, 2013, 12:26 AM
The funny thing is that every single person posting on this forum has probably committed a felony in their lives, but just didn't get caught/prosecuted. Probably not even knowing what they did was illegal or a felony. The amount of laws that carry felon penalties in this country is astronomical. We're all felons.Wait a minute. We're all guilty until proven innocent?

slimjimriggins
March 17, 2013, 01:16 AM
http://www.thecowl.com/commentary/how-people-actually-commit-three-felonies-a-day-1.2813861

Apparently many people unknowingly commit felonies every day.

cambeul41
March 17, 2013, 09:49 PM
Wait a minute. We're all guilty until proven innocent?

Guilt or innocence is a matter of fact, not finding.

Our presmption of innocence until proven guilty is not a matter of being innocent before being "proven" guilty.

murphys_law
March 17, 2013, 10:53 PM
Guy is obviously an idiot. They will be looking for every instance like this they can find to show why these laws are "necessary" or "work." If what the press release said was true I hope he gets his honestly.

bushmaster1313
March 17, 2013, 11:02 PM
Is it illegal to sell a firearm to a person who says they are a felon, and is believed by the seller to be a felon, when the person is not in fact a felon?

Edited

It seems it could be.
A mistake of fact, the intended seller was not a felon, might not be enough to avoid conviction for attempt.

SuperNaut
March 17, 2013, 11:03 PM
http://www.thecowl.com/commentary/how-people-actually-commit-three-felonies-a-day-1.2813861

Apparently many people unknowingly commit felonies every day.
Yup, if you are a file sharer (100+ shares) you are most likely committing a felony.

r1derbike
March 17, 2013, 11:08 PM
Guilt or innocence is a matter of fact, not finding.

Our presmption of innocence until proven guilty is not a matter of being innocent before being "proven" guilty.I see my attempt at humor was missed...:D

It will be interesting to stay on top of this case.

seeker_two
March 17, 2013, 11:23 PM
Question: How do we know that the LEO is telling the truth?....

biohazurd
March 18, 2013, 01:04 AM
Ive always wanted to visit NYC,(basically for all the awesome restaurants, Im a foody and musican as well as a active shooter and hunter.) But thats out of the question. Even before the new "Safe" law was in effect, Ive made the conscience decision to not travel to any state that does not acknowledge my CCP. I refuse to risk my and my families safety as well as add to the tourist revenue of an obviosly anti 2nd amendment state.


Someday i pray that all the states in the union have the gun laws that my native South Dakota has me accustomed to.

barnbwt
March 18, 2013, 01:44 AM
Under the SAFE Act, it is illegal to sell an AR-10 to a felon.
Uh, what? Let's give credit where credit is due, reporters of America :rolleyes:. I'd have written it "Under the SAFE Act, it is legal to sell a K31 to a felon"--that's technically just as truthy ;)

We'd really have a better system if all laws (jay-walking to murder) sunsetted after ten years. The lawmakers would get to feel all important and fuzzy passing the same "critical laws to protect our children" as always, but they'd never pile up into a heap of unenforceable garbage like we have now. It's the perfect solution to keep these dummies entertained while holding their offices (their boredom being the source of most of our creeping incrementalist law problems)

It's still possible this could go to higher court. Selling to a felon is an obvious no-no he could plead out to or be convicted of, but he would still have standing to appeal the additional penalites he sustains by commiting the crime with a specific object. The smartest move (and worst for us) by NY would be to only enforce this law as an add-on to more serious crimes. We never get our white knight Supreme Court plaintiff, and everyone else is still coerced into complying (just to be on the safe side, you know). That's basically how 922r is enforced, and many many people comply with that stupid law (at least, those who are even aware of it :D)

TCB

Elkins45
March 18, 2013, 07:23 AM
and don't forget his Cheez-it's (those are Bloombergs weakness don't ya know!)

Bloomberg's real weakness is his low IQ.

Trent
March 18, 2013, 11:30 AM
During the investigation, prosecutors say, the undercover officer told Wassell that he or she was a convicted felon. Under the SAFE Act, it is illegal to sell an AR-10 to a felon.

SHOULD READ:

Under the 1968 Federal Gun Control Act, it is illegal to sell an AR-10 to a felon.

The law has been on the books already for 45 YEARS.

Trent
March 18, 2013, 11:32 AM
Question: How do we know that the LEO is telling the truth?....

From the USA Today link, it sounded like they recorded the whole thing.

If you enjoyed reading about "1st person arrested under New York's new SAFE Act" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!