Keep it, fix it or sell it?


PDA






BSA1
March 16, 2013, 05:25 PM
I have a Model 10-7 with a 4” tapered barrel. The gun has loose spot in barrel where the barrel screws in to the frame which has previously discussed on this thread;

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=708078

On my first range session the gun shot to left but since I was using the undersize magna service grips and white paint on the front sight I could not rule out shooter error. So yesterday I shot the gun side by side with another Model 10 that has the heavy barrel. I shot both guns from a rest and used the same pair of grips. Conclusion this gun definately shots to the left.

So that leaves me with three choices with what to do with it:

a) Leave it in the condition it is in as it has acceptable combat accuracy.
b) They don’t make them anymore so replace the barrel with a different one.
c) Sell/trade it.

Your vote???

3 yards slighty to the left. Maybe?

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh560/Seldomseen3/Model10-7targets001_zpsaad3daad.jpg

7 yards more to the left.

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh560/Seldomseen3/Model10-7targets002_zps7e78a6a3.jpg

15 yards leaves no doubt.

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh560/Seldomseen3/Model10-7targets004_zps5436ed82.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Keep it, fix it or sell it?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Reloadron
March 16, 2013, 05:38 PM
Buy a 4" barrel and rebarrel the gun. A barrel runs about $50 from Numrich Gun Parts Corporation. (http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/SmithWesson-33495/Revolvers-42026/KFrameRevolvers-38382/10-7-36759.htm?page=4)

That is what I would do anyway.

Ron

Tony_the_tiger
March 16, 2013, 09:47 PM
Send it to S&W for repair.

Old Fuff
March 16, 2013, 10:43 PM
Because the threads on the barrel are very fine, I would worry that the frame as well as the back of the barrel might be expanded, and a new one might not turn up and stay tight. Also S&W may not have any barrels left, or keeping what they have for warrantee repairs. In addition a barrel change requires special blocks to support the frame and barrel, as otherwise the frame can be warped and ruined.

I suggest that you call the company and obtain an opinion on what they will or won't do, and if you are willing to pay the price suggest that if they don't have a barrel you will try to obtain one from an outside source.

Get your ducks in a row as to who can do what - and then decide what direction to go.

Last but not least, if you widen the rear sight notch slightly on the right side the group will move in that direction. That's far less expensive then changing barrels. :cool:

glider1
March 16, 2013, 10:57 PM
I wouldn't want to put alot of money in a model 10. I also wouldn't sell a gun that had a problem without telling a buyer about it. You're kinda between a rock and a hard place. Seems like about the only choice you have is to fix it, I'd call S&W and see if I could send it to them for repair. It might not be as much as you think to fix it and they'll tell you how much before they do it. Worst case is you'll have to much money in the gun and we've all been there.

beag_nut
March 16, 2013, 11:35 PM
Leave it as-is.

BSA1
March 17, 2013, 11:00 AM
I am fairly certain S&W will not replace the barrel on a gun this old. They refused to reblue a Model 10-6 I sent in for repair because the rep. said they would not take a chance damaging the gun by removing the barrel for refinishing it.

Beside as already noted spare barrels are not hard to come by and should not be much of a job for a true gunsmith.

Old Fuff your comment about the frame is my biggest worry since there is no way to know in advance if a replacement barrel will fit.

As for not selling it as it is there is nothing here to suggest that it won't shoot p.o.a. for another shooter. I shoot right handed with my dominant left eye so fixed sight guns are sometimes a challenge.

Certaindeaf
March 17, 2013, 12:04 PM
The "loose" spot is probably not causing it to print left.. it's the sights. It seems reasonably accurate, it just prints left. There's no guarantee whatsoever that a new barrel will be better regulated.. odds are it'll be worse. You could send/bring it to an old time revolver smith and he'll whack the barrel with a hunk of lead to move the poi over to the right if you want.. or file and or build up the front and or file the rear notch a bit. I'd leave it alone and shoot it.. hold off if you've gotta hit a rattler in the eye at 25 yards.

CraigC
March 17, 2013, 01:02 PM
The loose spot is not causing it to print left. I would bench the sixgun and if it doesn't shoot into 2"@25yds with any good load, have the barrel replaced.

Old Fuff
March 17, 2013, 01:20 PM
I am fairly certain S&W will not replace the barrel on a gun this old. They refused to reblue a Model 10-6 I sent in for repair because the rep. said they would not take a chance damaging the gun by removing the barrel for refinishing it.

You are probably right, but it might pay to ask, and your odds are better if you offer to provide the barrel. Keep in mind that they have all of the necessary tooling, jigs, and fixtures that few "true gunsmiths" do.

That said, given the value of the revolver vs. the total cost of changing the barrel, I would sooner open the rear sight notch to the right (which would shift the group in that direction).

It is also possible (and not uncommon) that the barrel hole in the frame is slightly angled, but still within specification. This can be determined by using a special plug gage (available from www.brownells.com) but again it's unlikely you'll find a gunsmith that has one.

All of which brings us by to modifying the rear or front sight to better center the group, or simply leaving things as they are.

rcmodel
March 17, 2013, 01:44 PM
What ammo, bullet weight, etc, were you testing with??

rc

Certaindeaf
March 17, 2013, 04:16 PM
You might even be able to bend the front sight the tiniest bit for some help.. heck, it might already be bent, resulting in your issue.

ohsobad
March 17, 2013, 04:50 PM
my rossi .357 with a 2in barrel does the same thing,shoots left farther and farther at longer distances

Vern Humphrey
March 17, 2013, 05:22 PM
I'd live with it.

If you really want to "fix" it, get a thin sheet of metal and epoxy a bit to the right side of the front sight. This will have the effect of moving the center of the sight right, and will correct for windage.

BSA1
March 17, 2013, 06:00 PM
Certaindeaf, I thought about a whack or two with a lead babbit. I’m just not sure how many gunsmiths still know how to use one.

Rcmodel, My reload is 158 gr. LSWC, probably 4.5 gr. W-231 and WSP.

As for grouping this is a 7 yd. group shot with the control Model 10-6 with same lot of reloads;
http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh560/Seldomseen3/Model10-6targets006_zpsabce0472.jpg

5-SHOTS
March 17, 2013, 06:20 PM
Last but not least, if you widen the rear sight notch slightly on the right side the group will move in that direction. That's far less expensive then changing barrels.

Or let a good gunsmith work on the front sight to adjust POI to POA with your favourite loads. For not too much money I think you can have the fixed front sight removed and replaced for a new one (pinned or drift adjustable). OK, maybe I'm going too forward...

Judging from your pics the 10-7 has the same practical accuracy of the 10-6. One more reason to have the sights adjusted a bit on the 10-7.

BYJO4
March 17, 2013, 06:49 PM
I would not put much money into it. If my gunsmith could adjust point of impact by using a babbit, I would try it as would cost very little. Otherwise, I would sell it and find a replacement that shot the way I wanted it to.

tomrkba
March 17, 2013, 07:03 PM
I'm in the "never-sell-a-gun-in-this-political-climate" bunch. Fix it if you care about it. Does the cost of the gun plus repair cost less than another Model 10?

Certaindeaf
March 17, 2013, 07:11 PM
If it was more than 4" off at 25 yards, it'd bother me, a lot.. unless it grouped like a house afire.. then I'd either fix it or hold off. it's not really a big deal to hold off especially if you are used to it/it's your main/only gun etc

rcmodel
March 17, 2013, 10:01 PM
All you need to do is move the bullseye to the left a little.

See, you can shoot at it there, and hit it here.
Tape a second target under the first one and take pictures of it to post on the net!!
10-X's all day!!!

Or Fuggedaboutit It ,and enjoy using a fixed sight gun the way they need to be sometimes used.

rc

Jim K
March 17, 2013, 10:12 PM
I doubt very much that S&W (or any other company) would agree to install a part they don't provide, even if it was made by them. General policy, pretty much across the board.

Jim

BCRider
March 17, 2013, 11:20 PM
On the short sight baseline length of a 4 inch barrel the amount of bend to the front sight or filing of the rear sight we're talking about to shift the group over is about the thickness of a business card. So Old Fuff's suggestion is certainly a workable one.

The other option would be that the barrel is not quite tightened to the frame fully far enough to situate the front blade exactly at 12 o'clock. Or it may have "shot loose" by a little over the gun's lifetime. At least given that it's either a 10-5 or 10-7 (you've written it as both between the two threads) I'm guessing that it's not a pinned barrel. If this is the case a smith would require less than an hour's worth of shop time to check it and clock the barrel to extactly top dead center.

BSA1
March 18, 2013, 10:25 AM
If it was more than 4" off at 25 yards, it'd bother me, a lot..

It is. I didn’t waste my time to photograph the 25 yard target.

At least given that it's either a 10-5 or 10-7 (you've written it as both between the two threads) I'm guessing that it's not a pinned barrel.

Gun is a Model 10-7 with pinned barrel. Sorry for the confusion.

If this is the case a smith would require less than an hour's worth of shop time to check it and clock the barrel to extactly top dead center.

That is the purpose of the lead babitt. The secret is knowing where to whack. In my young days the department armorer would sight in Model 10’s during qualification on the range with his trusty babitt.

Does the cost of the gun plus repair cost less than another Model 10?

Depends on which repair we are talking about? A whack or two with a lead babitt absolutely less.

Barrel replacement is probably going to be more than buying another Model 10by the time a new barrel, gunsmith fee and shipping is figured in.

Actually spending a little more in repair than the cost of another gun isn’t the issue. The issue is, as Old Fuff pointed out, is if the threads in the frame have been damaged when the barrel bulged. At the very least I bet there is a heck of tight fit between the barrel and frame now.

All you need to do is move the bullseye to the left a little.

Shush! ;-)

BCRider
March 18, 2013, 02:59 PM
If having someone whack the barrel with a big slug of soft metal is accpetable to you then why not do it yourself? I'm seeing that you're not happy with the gun as it is and that it was previously damaged slightly from the bulge. So what really do you have to lose?

A couple of end grain softwood support blocks to support the parts you don't want to bend then a pad of two layers of heavy leather such as an old belt and a dead blow hammer (it's hard to find a big hunk o' babbit or lead these days) are all you need.

The trick to the process is to give it a light to moderate blow that you're pretty sure won't do much and then to try a few shots. If there's a slight change then use a few more blows of the same strength to ease it over a little more. If there's no change then set it up and hit it a little harder the next time. If you should go too far then a light rap or two the other way will bring it back again.

Being a model 10 the trick would seem to be to keep the bending out beyond the front ejector rod spring button. On the other hand if the barrel bulged unevenly and the crane doesn't sit smoothly in the frame any longer some careful and judicious bending between the frame and spring button lug might be a good idea.

I know that many will be sitting their with ashen faces at my suggestion. But if it's "broken" as far as you are concerned then what is the worst that will happen? If you foul it up it'll go to a smith to be re-barreled. Which is what some are suggesting anyway. So thumping it around a little on your own isn't going to cost you any more for money wise than it would if you don't have a go at it. A least that's how it looks from where I'm sitting.

Jaymo
March 18, 2013, 06:36 PM
Since you're cross-dominant, have you tried shooting it with your weak hand?
Every shooter should learn to shoot weak handed. You never know when you'll need to.
I think I'd get it adjusted.

BSA1
March 18, 2013, 08:03 PM
BCRider.

I am reminded on a story about a electrician that answered a service call by a homeowner because the power was out in his home. The electrician went down in the basement and had the power back on in 10 minutes.

When the electrician handed the homeowner a billfor $75.00 the grateful homeowner asked the electrican what he did to fix the power outage. The electrician replied he just replaced a fuse. The homeowner became angry stating the bill was outrageous and demanded a itemized list of parts and labor.

So the electrician gave the homeowner the following itemized bill;

New fuse; $1.00

Knowing which fuse to replace; $ 74.00

BSA1
March 18, 2013, 08:08 PM
Since you're cross-dominant, have you tried shooting it with your weak hand?
Every shooter should learn to shoot weak handed. You never know when you'll need to.
I think I'd get it adjusted.

Jaymo,

Check out the target with the control Model 10 in Post #15 shot with same pair of grips and same rest. While the shooter undoubtly needs more practice at the range (only all 10's and no X's. Actually I shoot better without a rest but I was trying to eliminate as many variables as possible) I think it establishes the problem lies with the gun.

BCRider
March 19, 2013, 03:08 PM
...So the electrician gave the homeowner the following itemized bill;

New fuse; $1.00

Knowing which fuse to replace; $ 74.00

So I take it that you'd rather not have a go at replacing the fuse.... :D

Fair enough. As Harry Calahan so aptly put it "a man's gotta know his limits".

I guess I've just done too much home shop wood and metal working for too long. All my solutions gravitate to doing things myself.

Certaindeaf
March 19, 2013, 03:18 PM
Look at the bright side. You might be able to kill a snake with snakeshot at three feet.
It could really be worse for you.

If you enjoyed reading about "Keep it, fix it or sell it?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!