what cleaning chemicals is everyone using?


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BlackNet
March 17, 2013, 01:56 AM
Title pretty much says it all. I am looking for good cleaners that does a quick job of the nasty. I just finished a bottle of ole thunder and working on some black solve bottles now. I figured I may try to roll my own next and some other products and see how that goes.

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.22-5-40
March 17, 2013, 02:25 AM
Hello, BlackNet. I have just gotten back into black powder shooting. I used Black solve & Birchwood Casey solvent then..as welll as hot soapy water. Took out a little Ballard in .25-25 Stevens..dreaded the thought of clean-up in that small bore..First time with Butch's Black Powder solvent..3 wet patches..3rd. came out muzzle looking as it did when it went in breech!

BCRider
March 17, 2013, 04:05 AM
Warm water with a dash of liquid dish soap for washing out the fouling and then wiped down and bore and chambers patched dry and double dried with a hair dryer. Once all dry and warm the metal is all wiped or patched with Ballistol as a lube and rust preventer.

Buying anything but the dish soap is simply not needed. The metal all comes up squeaky clean just fine with the soapy water. Hell, a few of the cheaper sorts around here don't even go with the added expense of using the dash of detergent! ! !

Busyhands94
March 17, 2013, 05:09 AM
Whiskey heads work good. Or just plain ol' water.

Prairie Dawg
March 17, 2013, 07:48 AM
Water with a squirt of dish soap.
Dry patch.
Ballistol
--DAwg

Loyalist Dave
March 17, 2013, 08:02 AM
The question might be how quick do you need it to be? BP because of it's nature is going to take more time than smokeless. There is more fouling and that fouling causes rust. ;) Unlike a modern firearm where you can give them a quick pass through, a wipe down, and a coating of spray, or dunk the entire handgun in a bucket of solvent, remove and let it drain.

Water, a brush, some patches, followed by a rust inhibitor will work fine.

Some folks like warm water, some add dishwashing soap. Now if you use petroleum based lubes, or a grease made from something like a food grade oil or fat, you very much may want some dish soap, perhaps even Dawn brand, the same stuff they use to get the petroleum based stuff off of animals in an ocean oil spill.

Some folks have reported they used generic windshield wash fluid intended for use in a car, or Windex to also clean barrels, followed by a clean water rinse.

Some folks use a mixture of equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, hydrogen peroxide, and rubbing alcohol, again followed by a clean water rinse.

If you are shooting a cap-n-ball revolver, using grease on the chamber mouths to prevent a cook-off, remember too that you are going to need to remove the nipples when cleaning in most cases. (actually any gun using a nipple with a cap, or even most inline using a primer should have that portion thoroughly cleaned.) You will need to clean the threaded portion where the nipples are held with cotton swabs and again apply rust inhibitor before replacing the nipples. Revolver cylinders can be tedious to clean..., but I have never been able to avoid rust around the nipples unless they were removed and the threaded sockets also cleaned. Others may have had more success.

Just remember that final good coating of rust inhibitor when you are done, and check the gun 24 hours later for rust to be sure you didn't miss a spot or two.

LD

4v50 Gary
March 17, 2013, 08:55 AM
Hot soap and water. Read the MSDS for your chemicals. You may go back to hot soapy water.

Steel Horse Rider
March 17, 2013, 11:08 AM
I use hot water and Dawn dish soap. I made a trough from a piece of plastic rain gutter, fill it with the hot soapy solution, immerse the barrel (removed from the stock of course) for about 5 minutes, then lift the open end so the hot water shoots out through the ignition port several times, and swab it with a bore swab with the breech under water until the water coming from the igniition port is clean. Dry it off, I use a rag and compressed air, and rub it down both inside and out with your lube of choice. I have not had a problem with either real black or Pyrodex when they are cleaned within a few hours of shooting.

Carl N. Brown
March 17, 2013, 11:36 AM
It's been a few seasons, darn it. But when I was shooting ML: Water with dishwashing liquid, or Windex. Plain hot water. Dry patches. Patches with bore butter while the barrel is still warm.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
March 17, 2013, 11:51 AM
Just cold water for me. Boy the things some people put in their guns!! Most all
Of our pistols are of the 800.00 custom target variety .Revolver is 800.00 also.
Believe me you won't catch me putting stuff like ammonia ,peroxide , cleaning
Chemicals, soap,or hot water in any of mine. My guns are spotless and stay
That way.

Driftwood Johnson
March 17, 2013, 11:54 AM
Some folks use a mixture of equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, hydrogen peroxide, and rubbing alcohol, again followed by a clean water rinse.

Howdy

I beg to differ. I use Murphy's Mix (equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, hydrogen peroxide, and rubbing alcohol) almost exclusively after shooting Black Powder in CAS. It does not need to be rinsed away. It can just be left down inside the gun.

Here is the thing. Black Powder fouling will cause rust. How much depends partially on the relative humidity in the atmosphere. Black Powder fouling is extremely dry and is able to draw water vapor out of the atmosphere. The water infuses the fouling and is held in close proximity with the gun metal. This causes rust. Now, a little know fact is that if you infuse the fouling with oil, it completely looses its ability to draw moisture out of the air. It is like a sponge that has been saturated with water and is unable to hold any more. So if you can infuse the fouling with oil, it can no longer suck moisture out of the air and will not cause the metal to rust.

Yes, plain old hot water is the best BP solvent around. It simply dissolves the fouling. Forget about 'neutralizing' and other chemical terms. Just dilute it and wash it away. The water in Murphy's Mix is what does the actual cleaning. The per oxide is 97% water and the alcohol is about 20% water. That is what does the cleaning. The 3% peroxide creates a little bit of fizzing action to lift the fouling, the alcohol is a drying agent to accelerate evaporation, and the oil soap leaves an oily film behind when it evaporates. Once the fouling has been infused with the oil left behind it will no longer cause any rust.

The problem with cleaning with straight water is you have to get the water out again or it will cause rust. Yes, you can heat the water, but I always had issues with flash rusting with hot water. Plus, you can use Murphy's Mix cold at the range, it does not need heating. Why go through the bother of heating water, then trying to get it all out again? After I clean a cartridge revolver, lever rifle, or shotgun with Murphy's Mix I make sure to squirt some down into the action so it will coat any fouling that has worked its way down inside. I do not take the gun apart. I then follow up with a light coating of straight Ballistol, not watered down, and coat the bore and chambers, and work some inside. Once a year (or even less) I will take my guns apart and clean out all the black, oily gunk down inside. There is always plenty of black, oily gunk, there is never any rust.

I go through about 20 pounds of Black Powder every year.

I have been doing this for YEARS!!!

Lighten up and try something new if you have not tried it!

the Black Spot
March 17, 2013, 11:56 AM
Windex with vinegar. after all dry i use a rust inhibitor

Ryden
March 17, 2013, 12:25 PM
Hot water and a drop of Fairy washing up liquid to cut the grease.
Then a scrub with Ed's Red and that's it.
I throw my revolver in the oven to dry and then I rub it down with either a bit of the traditional beeswax/tallow mix or Ballistol, whichever is at hand and let it cool.

I have a notion that oiling the metal hot will let it penetrate deeper into it and protect better, but I have no idea if that's really the case.

I always put a chunk of the BP grease inside the handles when I re-attach them, I've found it to be good thing to always have some with the gun.

Edit:
If you want something that's really quick and efficient, get a steam cleaner like you'd use for your bathroom etc.
Amazing!

alsaqr
March 17, 2013, 12:46 PM
Windex with vinegar. after all dry i use a rust inhibitor

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This!!!

Been using Windex with vinegar to clean black powder guns since i read an article by Mike Venturino many years ago. Nothing eats up BP crud or the crud formed by BP substitutes like Windex with vinegar does. Many of the CASS guys use it.

It is now called Windex Multi Surface.

ThorinNNY
March 17, 2013, 01:07 PM
I think it was Ned Roberts who recommended removing the barrel, and pouring cold water down the barrel for 10 minutes, then cleaning with hot soapy water. As long as the water is really hot, it will heat up the metal and disperse any moiture. Course you keep running patches thru until they come up both clean dry. Then run an oily patch thru. Bs sure to check it 24 hours to make sure no rust appears.Works well for rifles, pistols may require a different approach.

mykeal
March 17, 2013, 01:42 PM
Lighten up and try something new if you have not tried it!
Why try something new if what you're doing works? Ever hear of the old homily, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Frankly, I could care less what you stuff in your guns; it's your money, spend it wherever you like. For me, like Phil, plain water works. It worked a hundred years ago, it's worked every day since then and it still works today. And it costs a whole lot less.;)

raa-7
March 17, 2013, 02:03 PM
I pretty much follow the same procedure as everyone else.As long as I use the hot water and a lil soap,then dry it up well,then a good thorough wipe down with light oil.

Patocazador
March 17, 2013, 02:18 PM
409 followed by water and then a moisture displacing lubricant.

44 Dave
March 17, 2013, 04:04 PM
I usually clean my revolver "before it even cools from shooting". Have been using some Birchwood Casey stuff I had around, but will mix up some Murphy's concoction when that is gone.
I have a good coat of anti-seas on stainless nipples and only take them out occasionally.
It takes about 15 minutes, cleaned, oiled, and ready to go. I do have an air compressor where I shoot to speed up getting junk out from around nipples etc.
Caution Windex and vinegar will darken brass.

Driftwood Johnson
March 17, 2013, 07:28 PM
Why try something new if what you're doing works? Ever hear of the old homily, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Frankly, I could care less what you stuff in your guns; it's your money, spend it wherever you like. For me, like Phil, plain water works. It worked a hundred years ago, it's worked every day since then and it still works today. And it costs a whole lot less.

Because it ticks me off when somebody makes a blanket statement about what we should not be putting into our guns and assumes it is bad when he has never tried it.

Believe me you won't catch me putting stuff like ammonia ,peroxide , cleaning
Chemicals, soap,or hot water in any of mine.

The OP wanted to know what works to clean BP guns. I told him what I use and why I use it. I started cleaning BP guns with water in 1968, so I did not just fall off the turnip truck. But I have found something that works better, and it ticks me off when somebody bad mouths it without any basis in fact.

BlackNet
March 17, 2013, 10:26 PM
As I said on the start currently I am using black solve and I got the MSDS from dixie and was looking over them. I am indeed quite amazed at what is in the mix.

Driftwood Johnson, I think you really hit it spot on with your post. I spoke with the club's president and he mentioned that many people will refuse to use vinegar as it can/will eat metal. I am not opposed do using vinegar at all personally but I was actually looking for something that would possibly make the cleanup job much faster.

As for the whole 'if it is not broke why fix it' approach that is fine and all, however it never hurts to look around and see what else is available, possible and who knows perhaps you will find something that you did not know or something that makes things easier for you. Just because you are looking at what options are available does not mean you have to stop using what works for you. What has worked for 100+ years may not be the most effective or efficient. After all if that was the case we would still be using horses instead of cars.

I find what works for me on my revolvers is a spray can of gun scrubber (brake cleaner or carb cleaner) before packing up at the range works wonders. So far to date what I have tried: Ol' Thunder, brake cleaner, carb cleaner, gun scrubber, black solve, shooters choice #7 bore cleaner (I *LOVE* this stuff), ballisol, shooters choice black powder gel, and water.

If anyone wants to know the ingredients in black solve (I do have the MSDS to if anyone wants that) is water, vytron-n, amyl acetate (for smell only), isopropyl rubbing alcohol - 70 proof, green & yellow food color.

FreddyKruger
March 17, 2013, 11:48 PM
I used to use the cheapest multi purpose cleaner i could find. the fouling would just run off. i also found i could mix it 50/50 with water and make it go even further. did tarnish the brass a bit however. Ive been using a 1/9 ballistol and water mix lately that seems to be going well.

been using a bit of carby cleaner on my flintlock too. blows out all the crap that a spray and brush cant get to.

Pancho
March 18, 2013, 12:22 AM
Ballistol with water to clean, straight ballistol to lubricate and as a rust preventative.

mykeal
March 18, 2013, 08:47 AM
Deleted.

fineredmist
March 18, 2013, 09:11 AM
I read somewhere about using alcohol swabs (available in your local drug store) to swab the bore after two or three shots to keep the fouling down. The swabs remove a lot of the fouling making it easier to load the rifle. I also found that the cleanup is very easy using warm water with some dish detergent as the bulk of the fouling is gone. I heat the barrel with a heat gun to dry the bore and then finish up with Ballistol.

J-Bar
March 18, 2013, 11:34 AM
Ballistol with water to clean, straight ballistol to lubricate and as a rust preventative.
Finally, This ! ^

303tom
March 18, 2013, 12:05 PM
I don`t ever use anything but dawn & hot water..............

BlackNet
March 18, 2013, 04:48 PM
Ballistol Ingredients (according to a specification from December 2002)

* pharmaceutical white oil: CAS RN 8042-47-5; Mineral oil
* Oleic acid: CAS RN 112-80-1
* C-5 alcohols: CAS RN 78-83-1; Isobutyl alcohol
* CAS RN 137-32-6; 2-Methylbutyl Alcohol
* CAS RN 100-51-6; BENZENEMETHANOL (9CI)
* different essential oils to perfume Ballistol


I also found this..

Ingred Name:LIQUID PARAFFIN OIL
CAS:8012-95-1
RTECS #:PY8030000
Other REC Limits:NONE RECOMMENDED
OSHA PEL:5 MG/M3
ACGIH TLV:5 MG/M3 (MIST); 9394

Ingred Name:POTASSIUM OLEATE
CAS:143-18-0
RTECS #:RK1150000
Other REC Limits:NONE RECOMMENDED

Ingred Name:BENZYL ALCOHOL
CAS:100-51-6
RTECS #:DN3150000
Other REC Limits:NONE RECOMMENDED

Ingred Name:VOLITILE ORGANIC CONTENT, NON-AEROSOL
RTECS #:9999999VC
Fraction by Wt: 5.3%
Other REC Limits:NONE RECOMMENDED

This is what I found today on ballistol.

BlackNet
March 18, 2013, 05:49 PM
As for Murphy's original oil soap:


Water - Consistency
Sodium Tallate - Cleaning Agent
Fragrance - Pleasant Scent
Tetrasodium EDTA - Maintains Product Stability
Lauramidopropyldimethylamine oxide - Cleaning Agent


And for the Squirt and Mop:

Water - Consistency
Sodium Tallate - Cleaning Agent
Fragrance - Pleasant Scent
Tetrasodium EDTA - Maintains Product Stability
Lauramidopropyldimethylamine oxide - Cleaning Agent
Preservative - Maintains Product Freshness
Dye - Color

Steel Horse Rider
March 18, 2013, 10:54 PM
I thought Murphy's Oil Soap was vegetable oil based. Is Lauramidowhoisit just a chemical name for soybean oil?

BlackNet
March 18, 2013, 10:58 PM
Very good question. Also worth noting that just because a product uses x, y and z this year does not mean that next year they will no change it to some other item. I did find several references to it not being 'green'.

I found this chemical listed in these items.

method floor cleaner, sc johnson paste wax, swifter wetjet, metalist floor sealer, clorox proresults, metalist 20 floor finish, ecos floor cleaner.

unknwn
March 19, 2013, 12:24 AM
" Lauramidopropyldimethylamine oxide "

On a hunch I looked up a comparison of this chemical's name and the term -surfactant- , BINGO , Lauramidowhoisit is a main component of industrial cleaning chemicals along the same line as carpet cleaning solution.
Powerful stuff. Mega-Soap or some such.

BlackNet
March 19, 2013, 12:46 AM
Few additions to the list.

dawn:


trilosan,
water,
sodium lauryl sulfate,
sodium laureth sulfate,
lauramine oxide,
denatured alcohol,
sodium chloride,
ppg-26,
peg-8 proplhepyl,
ether,
pei-14,
peg-10/ppg-7 copolymer,
phenoxethanol,
methylisothiazolinone,
fragrence,
dye.



windex multi-surface:


water,
2-hexoxyethanol (cleaning agent),
butoxypropanol (cleaning agent),
propylene glycol (carrier),
sodium c4-17 sec-alkyl sulfonate (wetting agent),
acetic acid (cleaning agent - ingred in vinegar),
sodium dodecylbenzene sulfonate (wetting agent),
lactic acid (pH adjuster),
fragrence.



windex crystal rain:


Water
2-Hexoxyethanol (Cleaning Agent)
Isopropyl Alcohol (Carrier)
Propylene Glycol (Carrier)
Sodium C14-17 Sec-Alkyl Sulfonate (Wetting Agent)
Videt EGM (Cleaning Agent)
Sodium Hydroxide (pH Adjuster)
Fragrance
dye


From this it seems that windex crystal rain would be the most ideal product to use.

Ryden
March 19, 2013, 04:37 AM
Interesting fact.

The C-5 alcohols talked about in the Ballistol recipe is commonly called fusel, a byproduct of ethanol fermentation.

So, was Klever a moonshiner or what? :D

zimmerstutzen
March 19, 2013, 11:12 AM
I use WW2 US army bore cleaner as a quick clean at the range before heading home. (smelly stuff with benzene, use only outdoors) A few sloppy wet patches to soak the bore and I wipe down the lock and barrel flats. Then a hot soapy cleaning at home. The stuff was intended to neutralize old corrosive primers, so I figure it is good on black powder fouling.

It has served me quite well for the past thirty years.

J-Bar
March 19, 2013, 01:39 PM
I use WW2 US army bore cleaner as a quick clean at the range before heading home. (smelly stuff with benzene, use only outdoors) A few sloppy wet patches to soak the bore and I wipe down the lock and barrel flats. Then a hot soapy cleaning at home. The stuff was intended to neutralize old corrosive primers, so I figure it is good on black powder fouling.

It has served me quite well for the past thirty years.
More than you wanted to know about benzene, other than the fact that it is a carcinogen:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/benzene/

Ballistol is pretty safe by comparison;

http://images.woodandmetal.com.s3.amazonaws.com/Ballistol_MSDS.pdf


I don't think you are doing yourself a favor by using the WWII stuff, my friend!

Aries-
March 19, 2013, 01:51 PM
with mine. i just get a big bucket. steaming hot water with dish soap. pour some down the barrel to start. then get a patch on the ram rod, and work it up and down the barrel, it will start to pump water in and out of the touch hole. if the water gets to dirty change it out. keep going until the water spraying out the touch hole comes out clean. give it a pat down to help dry, dry patch the inside of the barrel and oil.

make sure you use alcohol to swab the bore before you shoot next so the oil in the barrel doesn't foul your powder.

for a quick clean at the range i have heard people use Windshield washer fluid. the more expensive stuff. has alcohol in it so it dries up and has cleaners in it. a patch or 2 of that and you are good to go again. i know i have to scrub my barrel at the range after every 3 rounds or i cant get another round pushed down the barrel. (barrel size of .458 i think, rounds sized to .451 a little fouling is a pain) i have found using a cardboard wad under my round helps as it pushed some of the fouling unto the top of the powder charge.

Noz
March 19, 2013, 02:08 PM
I'm lazy.
I get no thrill from cleaning guns so I use the easiest and quickest method.
Cold water followed by Ballistol.
I'm done.

swathdiver
March 20, 2013, 01:01 AM
I like cheap and simple. Dawn and hot water, bore butter as lubricant and protector.

hawkeye74
March 20, 2013, 01:53 AM
I use Murphy's Mix (equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, hydrogen peroxide, and rubbing alcohol) almost exclusively after shooting Black Powder in CAS. It does not need to be rinsed away.

Do the same in N-SSA. I use 3-5 patches then wipe dry. After finished for the day, after final clean up, just oil and pack away. At home before next match do a take down and clean up. If necessary, use Hoppe's no 9 if any hard fouling left behind.

Ryden
March 20, 2013, 06:59 AM
Sometimes I'm even lazier...
http://i49.tinypic.com/2lawpp2.jpg

mykeal
March 20, 2013, 07:59 AM
If necessary, use Hoppe's no 9 if any hard fouling left behind.
:what:I thought this magic 'Murphy's Mix' cleaned everything out so there wouldn't be any hard fouling left behind...

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
March 20, 2013, 08:50 AM
This whole thread has got to go down as the most ridiculous thread there ever
Was on here!!

hawkeye74
March 20, 2013, 09:57 AM
:uhoh:Mykeal I was thinking of leading, not fouling. Should not post when late and tired.


But then again, would not lead be hard fouling?:)

BlackNet
March 20, 2013, 10:00 AM
This whole thread has got to go down as the most ridiculous thread there ever
Was on here!!

ridiculous as in how? What we are finding is most of the commercial mixes use the same or very similar ingredients.

BlackNet
March 20, 2013, 10:04 AM
If necessary, use Hoppe's no 9 if any hard fouling left behind.

Hoppe's #9 MSDS shows:

Kerosene
Ethyl alcohol
Oleic acid
Amyl acetate
Ammonium hydroxide

Aries-
March 20, 2013, 10:22 AM
Ryden: lets see you use that method on a Octagon barrel :)

the Black Spot
March 20, 2013, 10:42 AM
Looks like ethanol or some form there of is common.

Ryden
March 20, 2013, 11:06 AM
Ryden: lets see you use that method on a Octagon barrel :)
Allright, I'll just find my Speedos and a camera...

BullRunBear
March 20, 2013, 11:24 AM
Haven't found anything better than hot water with or without a few drops of dish soap. Make sure the bore is completely dry then run a patch with a light oil (doesn't take much) on it. No rust in the last few decades.

Jeff

rodinal220
March 20, 2013, 03:10 PM
Water and soap?

Wilfirt
March 25, 2013, 08:23 PM
I've been shooting flintlocks for 20+ years. I mean reproduction flintlocks. All I use are patches made of scrap cotton and boiling water. Same thing the British army used on their Svc muskets in 1750. The boiling water loosens the fouling and gets it out, as well as dries quick.
Put a toothpick or the like in the touchhole. Pour boiling water down the bore. Put a patch on your jag and just pump it up and down. Pull the toothpick as you push the next patch in. It should squirt water out the touchhole and maybe scald you on the leg.
Finish up by running a patch with olive oil on it down the barrel and back. Give the outer of your barrel a light coat of olive oil as well. After a few years your bright finished barrel will be brown. Ergo - King's Svc muskets were often called "brown bess"
Believe me, if you are using real black powder you only need real cleaning supplies. Leave the dish soap for dishes and killing aphids.
It worked in 1600-1900, and has worked for me and thousands of others for 20+ years.

hang fire
March 26, 2013, 12:43 AM
Title pretty much says it all. I am looking for good cleaners that does a quick job of the nasty. I just finished a bottle of ole thunder and working on some black solve bottles now. I figured I may try to roll my own next and some other products and see how that goes.
H2o, then sometimes just plain water.

Bluehawk
March 29, 2013, 01:33 AM
If anyone wants to know the ingredients in black solve (I do have the MSDS to if anyone wants that) is water, vytron-n, amyl acetate (for smell only), isopropyl rubbing alcohol - 70 proof, green & yellow food color., amyl acetate (for smell only), isopropyl rubbing alcohol - 70 proof, green & yellow food color.

So, basically it's just water, alcohol, and (Vytron-N) a rust inhibitor!!!!
Seems it's far cheaper to just use water to clean and oil to keep rust away...why spend all that money on commercial cleaner?? :confused:
By the way...how good is Kroil in a gun barrel?

Busyhands94
March 29, 2013, 01:51 AM
Interesting fact.

The C-5 alcohols talked about in the Ballistol recipe is commonly called fusel, a byproduct of ethanol fermentation.

So, was Klever a moonshiner or what? :D

Theoretically, whiskey heads are the best for cleaning theoretical guns. It only theoretically takes about four theoretical patches of shine heads to clean the bore of my theoretical 12 gauge whereas the store bought stuff takes over twice the amount patches. ;)

BlackNet
March 29, 2013, 09:18 AM
AS for cleaners goes I have been wondering this week how good simple green would be.

water
butoxyethanol
mixed alcohol ethoxylate
tetrapotassium pyrophosphate
sodium citrate
fragrance and colorant


Looks like it would be in line for a very good candidate.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
March 29, 2013, 10:44 AM
I wish somebody could give me the breakdown of panther piss. I hear that's
Pretty good too.

Texas Moon
March 29, 2013, 11:25 AM
I just use hot water.

MCgunner
March 29, 2013, 11:25 AM
Dawn dish soap and hot water. It's free in the kitchen. :D I follow that with a good drying and WD40 in all the cracks to displace any remaining water. Has worked for me for 40 years.

I used to run my stainless ROA in the dishwasher. It got ripped off and I now have a blued ROA that I don't put in the dish washer. It shoots just as well as did the stainless, but have to put some effort into cleaning it.

MCgunner
March 29, 2013, 11:27 AM
Folks, be careful what you use on a blued firearm. Some chemicals can take the bluing off. I've heard some sob stories over the years. :D

woodnbow
March 29, 2013, 11:39 AM
Folks, be careful what you use on a blued firearm. Some chemicals can take the bluing off. I've heard some sob stories over the years. :D
Amen to that! I used some housecat piss since I couldn't get a panther to use the little jar. (the housecat wasn't that much easier but I'm healing nicely, should be off the antibiotics in a week or so) I'm here to tell you that housecat piss takes the blue RIGHT OFF! along with about half the case hardening color! Not happy about that, maybe I need to change kitties diet? Less tuna I'm thinking...:uhoh:

MCgunner
March 29, 2013, 09:59 PM
^^^http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif^^^

ThorinNNY
March 30, 2013, 12:23 AM
kwhi43
Panther piss? I heard an old timer tell a story about prohibition era home brewed booze. Bought a bottle on the Q T. Took a sip- it was awful. Decided to have it analyzed. Lab report came back "We`re sorry to report your panther has a very advanced case of diabetes!"

Pancho
March 31, 2013, 02:20 AM
Water is a solvent, hot water has less surface tension and is a better solvent, water with a surfactant has less surface tension so in effect surfactants make water wetter and a better solvent. Water is a solvent, water plus alcohol lessens the surface tension making water wetter and a better solvent.
Rifle, and shotgun shooting uses very little lubrication during the ignition and therefore is relatively easy to remove. Cap and ball revolver shooting requires more and stiffer lube let alone the crisco crowd that seal their chambers with veg. grease I suggest that that would be a mess that would require a lot more than cold water to clean.

BlackNet
March 31, 2013, 09:12 AM
I would also like to note for those who have said 'it worked in the 1600's' and etc that the powder composition in 1600's and in 2013 is not the same formula nor the same ingredients. Also they were not using substitute powder in the that era as well, another factor you have to consider when looking at cleaners. So far very little has been mentioned about substitute powder.

Bluehawk
March 31, 2013, 01:03 PM
...the powder composition in 1600's and in 2013 is not the same formula nor the same ingredients.

The formulas differed but slightly according to the times and countries but the ingredients certainly were the same... (KnO3...S...C) the only thing I have ever read (and experimented with) that truly made any difference was the type of wood the charcoal was made from. That applies even today!!! Homemade BP can be made quite a bit more powerful than what you can buy commercially just by using better charcoal and a good ball mill !!!! :what:
What do you base your opinion on according to your above quote??

BlackNet
March 31, 2013, 01:21 PM
was pyrodex, 777, etc used in the 1600's? Did they use sugar, potassium perchlorate, 'trade secret ingredients' and the like? Even graphite is a more recent additive.

JRs12Valve
March 31, 2013, 01:50 PM
I'll use the Birchwood Casey BP solvent, or Hoppe's No. 9. Every time I try to use HOT soapy water, I always get flash rust.

My usual routine is:
Wipe down exterior with solvent,
Break the pistol all the way down, and scrub everything down with solvent and a plastic brush
Take out the nipples, soak in solvent, and run a tip cleaner through it. (GMAW contact tip cleaner)
Dry everything off, then wipe down with oil, and throw everything back together.

Bluehawk
March 31, 2013, 05:50 PM
was pyrodex, 777, etc used in the 1600's? Did they use sugar, potassium perchlorate, 'trade secret ingredients' and the like? Even graphite is a more recent additive.

No...Pyrodex and the other substitutes were not used...but that was not what you were commenting on...until the last two sentences. You began the paragraph referring to black powder...and what I said about it is valid..and your comment was incorrect.
Graphite coatings came later and is used to help make it flow more smoothly and as a slight burn rate retardent...but it isn't really necessary.
Concerning potassium perchlorate-based (KCLO4) substitutes...soap & water is just fine to clean with.

MCgunner
March 31, 2013, 06:35 PM
I've been doing it with hot water and soap, 777, Pyrodex, OR DuPont BP for 40 years and it ain't broke, so I ain't fixed it. JMHO through experience.

Now, some of these new chemicals might be easier to use, not require so much drying and WD 40 to displace water that gets into the action. I'd like to hear about THAT! Everyone prefers an easier method if it works...well, not everyone, but I know I'm open minded on that. :D

Torian
March 31, 2013, 06:57 PM
Well...I usually use Hoppes to clean and straight 5w-20 mobil 1 full synthetic as protectant and lubricant afterwards.

However...after reading this thread...I not sure whether to use alcohol, ballistol, soap, detergent, the dishwasher, the stove, or grab the glass cleaner (windex) from under the sink.

Pancho
April 1, 2013, 12:30 AM
Torian, I can stand back and see what you mean. I'd be confused too.
Bottom line is that it isn't rocket science. If cold water can do it anything that improves on water can't be bad. Back in the "good old days" they used what they had cold creek water or piss. Today we have a variety of chemicals that will help us clean our guns better and faster. Your choice find a stream or piss on your revlover, steal some Dawn dish soap from your wife. The base line result is it must be cleaned soon after shooting and treated well aferward to prevent rustl

Bluehawk
April 1, 2013, 03:34 AM
The original Colt factory cleaning instructions simply said to use water to clean and rinse with then oil the gun well...so simple...no?

Driftwood Johnson
April 1, 2013, 04:18 AM
I would also like to note for those who have said 'it worked in the 1600's' and etc that the powder composition in 1600's and in 2013 is not the same formula nor the same ingredients.

Au Contraire

The ingredients are pretty much exactly the same. What has changed over time is the ratios of the ingredients.

I am quoting now from an old explosives textbook written by Tenney L. Davis, PhD in 1943. He says that once guns were first invented, probably around 1320 or so, experiments began to be carried out to determine 'the precise mixture that would produce the best effect.'

He calculated the percentages of the ingredients of some of the formulas used at various times and published this chart.

Saltpeter----Charcoal----Sulfur
66.66-------22.22-------11.11----- 8th Century, Marcus Graecus
69.22-------23.07-------7.69------8th Century, Marcus Graecus
37.50-------31.25-------31.25-----c. 1252, Roger Bacon
66.6--------22.2--------11.1------1350, Arderne (labratory recipe)
50.0--------33.3--------16.6------1560, Whitehorne
75.0--------15.62-------9.38------1560, Bruxelles studies
75.0--------12.5--------12.5------1635,British Government contract
75.0--------15.0--------10.0------1781, Bishop Watson

He goes on to note how the last three formulas 'correspond very closely to the to the composition of all potassium nitrate black powder for military and sporting purposes which is used today.' (1943)

Indeed, the US Army settled on the same 75-15-10 ratio that is used today back in the 1800s.

One of the most important developments for producing Black Powder of consistent quality was the corning process, which has been done since the late 14th Century.

Regarding using the tried and true method of cleaning with water, or newer concoctions, I have already stated what I use and why I use it, but most respondents on this thread preferred to shout me down.

GaCop
April 1, 2013, 08:07 AM
Warm soapy water followed by 91% Isopropal alcohol to dry bore and finish with Barricade to oil exterior and bore.

Tom

PRM
April 1, 2013, 08:33 AM
Hot Water is all I have used for over 30 years to clean.

Gibbs Brand lubricant to finish the process.

mykeal
April 1, 2013, 11:12 AM
If cold water can do it anything that improves on water can't be bad.... Today we have a variety of chemicals that will help us clean our guns better and faster.
See, the thing is, what does 'better' and 'faster' mean?

I've tried the chemical concoctions and see no 'better' results; the gun is just as clean with plain water as it is with any of the homemade recipe or commercial products I've tried.

The damaging compounds - salts - are water soluble; it dissolves the salts and carries them away. For that matter, all of the black powder combustion byproducts are either miscible or 'suspendible' in water. They don't need 'fizzing action' or magic, special chemical reactions to be dissolved in or suspended in water and then washed away.

And as for 'faster', how does having to clean out the cleaning compounds make them 'faster'? Or having to spend time mixing them up?

Maybe I just have magic water in my well...

most respondents on this thread preferred to shout me down
Actually, most of the people who posted in this thread simply provided their own experience, rather than shouting anyone down.

Bluehawk
April 1, 2013, 07:15 PM
Driftwood...
That's the very same info I have but it would have taken me too long to dig it out and scan it...thanks for saving me the trouble. I did forget to mention "corning" along with the charcoal types. Corning came about primarily because originally they would send the powders pre-mixed to the battles but along the way the chemicals would separate, so they tried mixing them at the battle site but found too time consuming. Corning was then discovered/invented and has remained in the final manufacturing process to this day.

boommer
April 1, 2013, 08:07 PM
soap and water and any non petroleum oil (petroleum oils and black don't mix)
I will use Kroil oil to lift any leading but clean that out with electro clean and use soy oil to protect.

BlackNet
April 2, 2013, 12:40 AM
http://youtu.be/zMJkDmsf3j8

Here is a cleaning machine :)

Bluehawk
April 2, 2013, 03:46 AM
Interesting...glorified steam cleaner! I can think of better things to spend my money on though...LOL
Did anyone notice the guy never loaded any bullets in that flintlock? Just powder and wads!!! :what:

BlackNet
April 2, 2013, 09:42 AM
Quite so, plus it was indoors. I did some digging and found a $600 price tag.

Bluehawk
April 2, 2013, 10:18 AM
I'm guessing steam won't clean out lead from a rifle or pistol bore...it's just not hot enough...it takes a good nylon or bronze brush to loosen that up. I've always used a nylon brush...always worked for me.

Lunie
April 2, 2013, 12:03 PM
I wish somebody could give me the breakdown of panther piss. I hear that's
Pretty good too.
It's probably better used for cleaning guns than on your breakfast cereal... :neener:

Ryden
April 4, 2013, 10:00 AM
I had a tip from a friend about a very good solvent for our purposes.

Oxidane CAS 7789-20-00
One of the most powerful solvents we have around.
Should work wonders on BP fouling

Nappers
April 5, 2013, 06:26 AM
I use 3 Rivers cleaning/patch lube to clean and hydro clean in a bucket.

It's cheap, probably a variant of moose milk but green.

I buy it at The Gun Works in Oregon, Joe and Suzi are great people.

FreddyKruger
April 23, 2013, 02:53 AM
Anyone else used carby/throttle body cleaner?

I find spraying it in there gets the carbon from where a brush or patch cant get into and dries pretty quick. But it is also good for getting out oils before shooting. a quick shot into the chambers and nipples and i can avoid a hang-fire without wasting caps.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
April 23, 2013, 04:18 AM
I use the spray starting fluid.

BlackNet
April 23, 2013, 09:06 AM
I use it on my revolvers. It is like insta clean.

damoc
April 23, 2013, 09:11 AM
I use the spray starting fluid.
yep ill use this also if im out somewhere and need some cleaning otherwise just
dishwashing liquid or soap and water followed by a blast of air if i have a compressor
available to dry it quickly.

x_wrench
April 23, 2013, 09:20 AM
in the feild, i use Rusty Duck solvent between shots, and if i have shot at the end of the day. when i get home, i use hot soapy water, followed by the Rusty Duck solvent, dry out the bore very well, and then a generous slathering of Bore Butter for storage.

GCBurner
April 23, 2013, 08:49 PM
Hot soapy water, clean water, and Ballistol.

Don McDowell
April 23, 2013, 10:23 PM
I like water, then when things look good, run a patch soaked with Montana Extreme's Cowboy blend, to make sure there's no lead, then a dry patch and then use the Montana Extreme Bore conditioner when the gun is put away.
For checking for lead in a "clean" barrel a patch soaked in turpentine on a jag will let you know real quick if there's any lead hiding in there.

josiewales
April 24, 2013, 04:04 PM
Hot water. I don't have a speck of rust on any of my guns.

kendak
April 29, 2013, 04:16 PM
I use a spray can of "SWIPE" made by Wechem...will melt BP residue ...spray it down use a toothbrush on the nipples, run a brush/swab through bore /cyl. & blow it off with compressed air ...you're done... oil it down with Mobil 1 ...unless you use the hose outside hot water in the house is a PIA [stain in the sink...wife bitching]....quick & clean ready to go next week...Kent :)

BlackNet
April 29, 2013, 07:03 PM
the MSDS for 'swipe' by Wechem shows it to be:

Liquefied Petroleum gas
2-Butoxyethanol
Sodium Metasilicate

kendak
April 29, 2013, 10:16 PM
thanks works good been using it about 6yrs. at work & on my BP weapons...Kent

Bluehawk
April 30, 2013, 07:14 AM
Sodium Metasilicate is nothing more than sodium silicate..."waterglass"...once used as a food preservative...adhesive used by Colt to cement paper cartridges together...and even to coat and bind the hard sawdust exterior on the firework "cherry bomb".
Here's an interesting link on Wiki about sodium silicate/metasilicate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate

Willie Sutton
April 30, 2013, 11:12 AM
Hot water & soap. Ballistol after that.

Simple things work best.



Willie

.

mykeal
April 30, 2013, 11:50 PM
The answer is water, a chemical compound obtained by combining two parts hydrogen with one part oxygen.

Any questions?

Bluehawk
May 1, 2013, 02:14 AM
Well said, MyKeal! :neener:

kendak
May 1, 2013, 09:21 PM
???

Bluehawk
May 1, 2013, 10:13 PM
Mykeal...I was praising you for stating water is a chemical and the "neener-neener" was for the guy that didn't think water was a chemical!!!!!
My apology if you thought I was belittling you my friend...I wouldn't show you such disrespect...and certainly never in a public forum!

mykeal
May 1, 2013, 10:36 PM
That's exactly how I understood it. No offense taken.

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