"Full Metal Jacket" M14 - M16


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TheOtherOne
March 13, 2004, 06:36 PM
For anyone that has seen Full Metal Jacket, is it accurate as far as the M14 being the rifle used in boot camp and then the M16 being what everyone had in Vietnam? I know that the M16 was used during vietnam, but I'm wondering if they were really still using the M14 in training.

Also, Pvt. Pyle refers to the round for his M14 as "7-6-2 millimeter". Is that correct? Maybe I'm getting the Mini-14 confused with the M14, but I always thought it was .223.

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Preacherman
March 13, 2004, 06:43 PM
Yes on both.

The M14 was the standard-issue rifle for Marines up through the mid-'60's. Thus, their training on M14's was legitimate. M16's were issued in the field in Vietnam, so it's a good reflection of the times.

As for the M14, it fired 7.62x51mm NATO, commonly known as .308 Winchester in the civilian world. The Mini-14 fires the same round as the M16 - 5.56x45mm. NATO, or .223 Remington. (And before anyone jumps - yes, I know that the "civilian" specifications for these rounds are marginally different from the "military" specifications, but essentially they're the same round, and only in match chambers will the difference be noticed.)

Jim K
March 14, 2004, 12:27 AM
Yes, in the military, the two rounds are commonly called the "seven six two" and the "five five six". Sometimes, someone will put "point" after the first digit.

Jim

Destructo6
March 14, 2004, 12:28 AM
Getting all primed for boot?

I can find no fault with Preacherman's explanation. The M16 was the first US weapon issued in 5.56x45 NATO. Of course, the M14 was the first US service rifle issued in 7.62NATO.

Jeff White
March 14, 2004, 12:41 AM
The M16 was bought for the Air Force and the Army bnought it initially for Airborne and SF. It became the standard rifle in Vietnam, but the stateside troops, those in Europe and Korea still had the M14 or in some cases the M1. I'm not sure about the Marines, but the Army trained on the M14 in basic up until around 1972.

Jeff

TheOtherOne
March 14, 2004, 01:32 AM
Getting all primed for boot?Yep. I'll pick up a copy of Blackhawk Down next. :D

I didn't know the Drill Instructor in FMJ was actually a Marine either until I saw a picture of him with one of the recruiters in their office here.

Sunray
March 14, 2004, 02:06 AM
If you're going to Basic in the Fall, you'd be better off out running instead of watching movies. The higher your level of fitness when you go will mean it'll hurt less when you get there.
Movies have nothing to do with reality. In any case, Full Metal Jacket was about Viet Nam, not what's going on now.

Houndawg
March 14, 2004, 05:48 AM
Marines were using the M14 as the standard rifle in Vietnam in 1966, but I'm not sure how long after they started using the M16.

Steve Smith
March 14, 2004, 06:18 PM
Keep in mind that BlacKhawk Down is a pseudo-documentary on how the brass screwed up and sent the grunts into a very Bad Place. This could happen to you.

TheOtherOne
March 14, 2004, 06:41 PM
If you're going to Basic in the Fall, you'd be better off out running instead of watching movies. The higher your level of fitness when you go will mean it'll hurt less when you get there.
Movies have nothing to do with reality. In any case, Full Metal Jacket was about Viet Nam, not what's going on now.Don't worry, I'll be okay because I'm very good at osmosis. I'll be renting workout tapes next and then I'll sit back on the couch with popcorn and coke and get fit!

:D

DFBonnett
March 14, 2004, 07:21 PM
"TheOtherOne
Senior Member

"Full Metal Jacket" M14 - M16
For anyone that has seen Full Metal Jacket, is it accurate as far as the M14 being the rifle used in boot camp and then the M16 being what everyone had in Vietnam? I know that the M16 was used during vietnam, but I'm wondering if they were really still using the M14 in training."


Seems about right for the time frame. I went to basic at Dix in '68, then AIT at Dix, then onward and downward. M14 in basic with some M16 training and M16 qualification. Back to M14 in AIT. M16 in RVN. Back to M14 in USAREUR.

TarpleyG
March 14, 2004, 07:34 PM
What sunray said...If you can ace your initial PFT, you'll be WAY better off than everyone else. Strive to carry that guidon as platoon leader too. Run, run, then run some more before you go. Run with combat boots on, wet, and in sand. If you can do three miles in the sand in comat boots in 20 minutes, then do 20 pull ups and 200 sit ups, then you are ready. If you cannot do all that now, you ain't ready. Turn to!!!

The PFT run isn't quite that hard but you may have runs like that. You will still need to do a 6 minute mile in sneakers to get a perfect score. If you go in 0300, I can guarantee you'll have many a beach run ahead of you.

Good luck.

GT

shoobe01
March 14, 2004, 07:57 PM
My dad, c. 1962, went thru Army basic and being RA (as opposed to a draftee) got trained on the M1 (Garand) still. They knew they would get M14s when sent out to their units, and could see the short-timers across the way with them, but apparently it was decided that there was time to get the regulars trained on a second rifle later. I recall McNamara cancelling the M14 as an in-production weapon a few years later, so I guess there were not enough to go around yet.

I have heard of people who stopped in CA for a bit to get some hot-weather training, and see their M16 for the first time, but also a few who went over to VN and then all of sudden are given a new rifle. Anyone know how this happened? Did they give you a gun and a manual, or was there a 2 week course or what?

George S.
March 14, 2004, 08:39 PM
I joined the Army in September of 67 and went thru Basic Training at Ft. Lewis, WA (7 miles from home !!) and we trained with the M14. Got to RVN in January 68, three days before the TET offensive when the SHTF all over teh country.

I wound up in a support unit near Long Binh and we had M14's as our individual weapons. Sometime around July 68, we had to qualify with M16's but we were never issued any. I wound up qualifying Expert with it and the M60. We had to provide part of our own perimeter security and I wound up with an M60 after a couple of training sessions. So I gave up the M14 for the M60 and a 1911.

I believe that most all Army combat units were issued M16's (and definitely the later versions that had the revised chambers) by mid-1967 and the support units stayed with M14's. If you watch the documentary films about the TET action in the Saigon area, most of the involved Army units (MP's, Cav, and Infantry) carried M-16's

socomcen
March 15, 2004, 11:13 AM
My dad is a retired GySgt. He retired with 22yrs in 1992. Went to boot camp at San Diego in 1970 and was issued the M14. And he said the movie was very much like real boot camp. I think what made it so real on camera was R. Lee Ermey since he is a former Drill instructor he knew what to do. My dad was a Marksmanship instructor for a year at Edson Range and the a Drill Instructor for 1 year (1975).

Gordon
March 15, 2004, 11:35 AM
Yep, I was broke in on (and shot on team) the M-1 in ROTC in early 60's , in Basic Training in 65 got an m-14, two years of training later hit VN the same friggin day George S. did. Got a 1911 for Tet 68! When I finally got to 101st a month later got an M-16. "Whats this". Soon found out how it works. I moved around alot do to my MOS, Wound up buying my own weapon from a leaving pilot, a Swedish K. Sold it to a Sgt. in Da-Nang who got into trouble with it!Second tour, issued .45 1911 again, my dad sent me a nice Ithaca Mod 37 riot pump from LAPD. They didn't check inbound care packages! Last tour went in civvies for less than 6mos, carried a couple pistols as I was flying between Udorn Thailand and VN constantly.:cool:

M2HMGHB
March 15, 2004, 07:45 PM
R. Lee Ermey was retired in 1968(I Believe) due to wounds inflicted during combat. If I remember correctly he was a staff sargeant, but I'm not sure.

SodiumBenzoate
March 15, 2004, 08:10 PM
My dad joined the USMC in 1972 and left as a Sgt. in 75. (he later joined the National Guard for two years, so the final rank he attained was SSG)

He said that they were originally trained with M14s, but switched over to M16s in the middle of boot camp.

Also, he was taught that the caliber of the M16 was .223, and he never even knew it was also 5.56 until I mentioned something a year or two ago.

If I remember correctly he was a staff sargeant, but I'm not sure.

Yes, but he was "promoted" to Gunnery Sergeant one or two years ago (ceremonial, but still)

JackDRipper
March 16, 2004, 01:34 AM
the Army trained on the M14 in basic up until around 1972

We trained with the M16 in basic at Ft. Campbell, Ky in July 1971. My guard unit had m14's when I left for basic so I was reguired to shoot the m14 one day in basic. When I got back my guard unit had been issued m16's.
JR

fix
March 16, 2004, 01:45 AM
I didn't know the Drill Instructor in FMJ was actually a Marine either until I saw a picture of him with one of the recruiters in their office here.

:what:

DROP AND GIVE ME 25!!!

socomcen
March 16, 2004, 11:06 AM
Here's R Lee Ermeys web site http://www.rleeermey.com/

MrMurphy
March 16, 2004, 11:15 AM
My father went through basic in '66, using the M14, and went to Turkey for a year. Wandered around the US on various bases in '67, in '68 volunteered for Vietnam and his unit still had M14s, when they got there most people had M16s already and according to him they got asked "Are you snipers or something?" a lot (Army snipers used the M21, accurized M14) and after about four- five months they went over to the M16, then the -16A1. Then in the Gulf War he got an M16A2, but still had a .45 (Navy unit, not enough Berettas to go around yet) and he didn't exactly mind. :)

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