CZ or Savage


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kyhunter
March 17, 2013, 07:57 PM
I am in the market for a new rimfire. Id look everyones views for and against these two options... Im looking for .22 magnum especially. Im also open to caliber debates (as long as its rimfire) but keep it clean to each his own. Ive owned .17 savages and it didnt really wow me.

The gun needs to be accurate enough for fairly long 50-100 yard varmint shots.

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ECVMatt
March 17, 2013, 08:12 PM
Not to throw another dog in the fight, but I have a couple of Ruger 77/22 Mags and they are great! They are super accurate, I love the magazine, I like how the safety locks the bolt closed, and they feel like real adult sized rifles.

I also have a CZ 452 and it is a very nice rifle. It tends to have more sharp edges, but shoots great. I have limited experience with Savages, but the one I had the most with failed to extract quite regularly. I know the extractor is an easy part to replace and Savage stands behind their rifles, but it irked me that it came that way. Of the two you are specifically looking at, I would go with the CZ.

ford8nr
March 17, 2013, 08:13 PM
I have a CZ452 Varmit in 22lr and love it. It's my steel siloutte gun out to 100m offhand. Off a bag I can clink (22lr version of CLANK) a 12" plate at 242yds 9 out of 10 shots.

ford8nr
March 17, 2013, 08:16 PM
Ohhh...Ruger 77/22M that's dirty pool throwing that one in. I LOVE the 77/22's.

303tom
March 17, 2013, 08:19 PM
Savage, buy America...................

redneck2
March 17, 2013, 08:23 PM
My S-I-L has a target model Savage with the Accu-Trigger and I have a 453 CZ with the single set trigger. Either would suit me for accuracy and function. Last time out I shot .2's at 50 yards with the CZ loaded with Wolf Match.

I had a 77/22 in .22 Hornet. It went away. Gonna replace it with a CZ some time this summer.

kyhunter
March 17, 2013, 08:31 PM
the rugers are a bit too pricey for something that might get beat up. but thanks for the option in case i decide to go up a little. and 303 thats a good point american is always a plus

chaser_2332
March 17, 2013, 09:25 PM
cz hands down for rimfire

viking499
March 17, 2013, 09:44 PM
I am with chaser. CZ. The new 455's offer the option of barrel swapping so you could have your WMR, HMR or 22 to see what you like or to experiment with. They are also offering a drop in single set trigger to go in the 455's which will allow it to resemble the 453's sst.

That all said, I do not have a 455, but plan to in the future when I find the right one sitting on a shelf. But, I do have a handful of 452's and love every one. And I would buy another handful if I had the funds to.

toivo
March 17, 2013, 10:06 PM
Savages are reasonably-priced and they work. CZs are really, really nice and will make you go :D.

bannockburn
March 17, 2013, 10:17 PM
If I were in the market for a bolt action rimfire, CZ would definitely be my first choice. A friend of mine has a CZ Model 452 American and besides its great looks it's also an extremely accurate rifle.

rodregier
March 17, 2013, 10:18 PM
+1 CZ452 Varmint. No regrets.

22-rimfire
March 17, 2013, 10:22 PM
If I could find a CZ bolt, I'd probably get that. Otherwise, I would go for a Savage with the Accu-trigger. Savages shoot very well typically.

StrutStopper
March 17, 2013, 11:10 PM
My latest rimfire purchase was a CZ 455. I'm not disappointed.

kyhunter
March 17, 2013, 11:28 PM
okay so if i do go for a CZ. What about the FS versions I like the looks of the full mannlicher stock but how does that go as far as barrel harmonics, free floating, etc. Does it harm accuracy. The only thing I have floated is an '06. I know nothing of floating being done about rimfires since Ive only plinked or raccoon hunted with the things.

juk
March 17, 2013, 11:42 PM
I haven't seen any indication that the FS models suffer from accuracy problems. RimfireCentral has a CZ specific forum. It is great just to browse that forum and read the threads. That alone will answer just about any question you can come up with.

kyhunter
March 17, 2013, 11:49 PM
juk i appreciate it.. im off to explore

Gtscotty
March 18, 2013, 12:04 AM
Between the two I would definitely go with the cz 455, in fact I did. I have had had nothing but great accuracy from all 3 barrels (17 hmr, 22 lr and 22 mag). I had the lr barrel cut down and threaded for a can, and now the ammo it likes best is blaser... Go figure. The switch barrel aspect was important to me, but even if it wasn't, I would still have chosen the cz, the execution and finish are a notch higher than the savage, with similar accuracy.

kyhunter
March 18, 2013, 12:14 AM
gt scotty which of your three barrels would you think better for varmints? Ive never touched a .22 mag but i have several .17's. The .17 worked great for varmints but if i wanted to eat a rabbit or something it was not really purposeful. How does a .22 mag fair in that aspect if you have any experience. The .17's just kind of detonate. My understanding is the .22 mags shouldnt do that, similar to the .22LR just faster and flatter?

ECVMatt
March 18, 2013, 01:43 AM
I shoot a lot of jackrabbits with the .22 Mag and the .17 HMR. The .22 mag works great, but you have to choose your bullet. My buddy uses the 35 VMax and it is as explosive as my .17HMR. I use 40 grn. SP's and they put them down, but don't blow them up. I really like the .22 Mag for bigger varmints. It works really well on coons, possums, and the likes.

kyhunter
March 18, 2013, 02:06 AM
Matt thats what I was asking more or less. Looks like .22 mag it is :cool:
I know from my experiences at least I have never seen a .17 keep together and pass through. But that really isnt what theyre designed to do I suppose:confused:

HOOfan_1
March 18, 2013, 12:01 PM
I've tried v- max bullets in two .22 magnums...horrible accuracy

Jackal
March 18, 2013, 12:26 PM
I have a Savage .22LR with Accutrigger and wood stock. Its very accurate, I can take 9mm cases at 50 yards with open sights. However, I must say that it is quite a turd. Quality is low, action is rough, fails to eject occasionally. It also fails to feed quite often and I have tried 8 different mags and about 10 different types of ammo. Overall, the Savage will likely be as accurate as the CZ, but the CZ will likely run smoother.

SlimeDog
March 18, 2013, 01:10 PM
I have both a CZ452 and a Savage Mark II. While both rifles are accurate (the CZ gets the nod by a smidgen), I feel that the CZ is superior in every other way - appearance, materials, fit and finish, and handling characteristics. Just my 2 cents.

Gtscotty
March 18, 2013, 02:33 PM
Kyhunter,

If you are just looking to shoot non-food varmints, I think I would use the 17 hmr barrel. Obviously either would work, I just really enjoy shooting the hmr (I think of it like a tiny center fire). That said the 22 mag would probably be better for anything you intend to eat and for larger varmints such as coyotes and small pigs. My cz actually does best with heavy 17 hmr bullets, and light 22 mag bullets. Pretty much any 17 load with an xtp or game point 20 gr bullet will shoot moa or better on a very still day, a little wind though and things go haywire. While the xtp is less explosive than the vmax, it only took one squirrel hunting trip for me to revert back to 22 lr for squirrel duty.

d2wing
March 18, 2013, 02:54 PM
Lately I have heard several reports of feeding problems with the Savage as well as accuracy varies by individual rifle. I was about to by a Savage in .17 HMR but I might spend more and get the CZ. I have 2 of those and both are great in every way.

Cee Zee
March 18, 2013, 04:26 PM
I have a CZ 453 and a Savage MkIIBTV both in .22LR. The CZ is the nicer rifle but the Savage is more accurate. It isn't a lot more accurate but it is more accurate. And I've had more problems by far with my CZ than I have with my Savage. But again the CZ is a well built rifle and very beautiful. It also costs a good bit more than the Savages.

I like both rifles very well to be honest. I had to work on the Savage to get it shooting like it does. Things like tweaking the torque on the action screws and pillar bedding made it shoot more consistently. The CZ is very close in accuracy to the Savage though. Most people would never notice the difference if they didn't have them side by side to shoot like I do.

Because the CZ is such a beautiful rifle I would probably go with it if I had to choose just one. Luckily I won't have to do that any time soon unless the economy completely tanks (a distinct possibility).

viking499
March 18, 2013, 05:27 PM
CeeZee, what are some of the problems you have had with the 453?

targetshooter22
March 18, 2013, 05:32 PM
I like the CZ well enough to own several. I have no Savages, or Remingtons for that matter. But I won't run any of them down. Savage (and Rem and Ruger) make some great rimfires, and really it comes down to personal preference. I know a guy with a heavy barreled Savage 22 LR and it is very accurate; virtually no difference between that and my CZ 452.

But beware, CZ can be addictive. Mine tend to multiply in the safe somehow. :evil: Anywhat Czech them out, and happy shopping and shooting!

firedawg60
March 18, 2013, 06:17 PM
Savage, buy America...................
If I am not mistaken, Savage rimfires are made in Canada. I have a 93G in 22 mag and probably will end up getting rid of it. It feels good and has a great trigger, but accuracy is erratic and it has feeding problems. If I push up on the magazine while cycling the bolt, all is well, but that is annoying to do every shot and not conducive to a quick follow-up.

Kachok
March 18, 2013, 06:25 PM
The most accurate rimfire I have ever shot (by far) was a Savage, they really are that accurate, but the Savage is a little rough around the edges and if the CZ is just as accurate I would pay the extra for the style and QC of the CZ.

Austin's Papa
March 18, 2013, 07:59 PM
One more vote for CZ.

Clint C
March 18, 2013, 11:16 PM
You wont do bad with either rifle. For years I loved my Savage rimfires, I had a standard 17hmr with bull barrel, a Mako edition 17hmr, and a TR in 22lr, they were great rifles, but all gone. I have had two CZ rifles, a 452 Trainer, and a 452 Ultra Lux Super Exclusive, I still have the Ultra Lux Super Exclusive. I love the action on a CZ. Both are reliable rifles, goto every shop you can, and play with every rifle they will let you, watch lots of youtube, then buy one. That's the best advice I can give you. Let us know what you get!

cdb1
March 19, 2013, 01:51 AM
CZ's are addicting, I own three CZ pistols and 3 rifles. I have wanted a .22 mag since I was about 7 years old and finally got one last year at the age of 53. Compared Marlins and Savages side by side and thought the Marlin was a little better made and they have good triggers now. So I bought a Marlin. But something kept quietly telling me to to get what I really wanted so I sold the Marlin un-fired and bought a CZ 512 WMR. I haven't looked back. Put a Clearidge AO rimfire scope on it, had a trigger job done, to me it is the utlimate rimfire. Plus in my opinion it looks cool. Super Accurate too.

I have a Savage 16 .243 with the Accustock and Accutrigger. It is very accurate. But my CZ centerfires are very accurate too and seem to be built better.

Cee Zee
March 19, 2013, 03:19 AM
I had rust on the barrel and receiver of the CZ. Plus the bolt stuck quite a few times when I first got the rifle. I saw a thread about that on Rimfire Central just a few days ago. It seems quite a few people had that problem. And sometimes the set trigger wouldn't cause the main trigger to fire. I fixed the rust problem by using a different protecting oil. I fixed the sticking bolt by just working it until I knocked the burr down that was catching it but I think it caused the top of the stock to scratch just behind where the bolt slides back. And I haven't had the problem of the set trigger not engaging the main trigger for almost 2 years. The only other thing is that the wood is a lot softer than I expected for walnut. I got several small scratches that shouldn't have happened. I barely bumped the wood and it scratched.

The rifle just needed some time to settle in I believe because I haven't had any problems for quite a while. It's a very nice rifle. No piece of equipment is perfect. I did have a few problems with the Savage too but they were minor compared to the CZ's problems. I don't really expect perfection though. I'm never disappointed that way. But I wouldn't hesitate to buy the same rifle again. They really do shoot great and they look great too.

chicharrones
March 19, 2013, 08:29 AM
I've tried v- max bullets in two .22 magnums...horrible accuracy

What makes and models of guns was that in? :confused:

Most people I've seen over at Rimfire Central have had good results with Hornady 30 gn. V-Max and CCI 30 gn. V-Max in .22 WMR.

Myself included. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4375264&postcount=4

tuj
March 19, 2013, 08:36 AM
I own a Savage 93R17 and have shot several CZ452's. I would go with the CZ. That said, the Savage 17 can shoot (from a bipod):

http://renkucorp.com/jf/pics/guns/savage/rifle611/good_group_sm2.JPG

HOOfan_1
March 19, 2013, 01:25 PM
What makes and models of guns was that in? :confused:

Most people I've seen over at Rimfire Central have had good results with Hornady 30 gn. V-Max and CCI 30 gn. V-Max in .22 WMR.

Myself included. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4375264&postcount=4

Mossberg 640K
Savage 65M

Neither of these guns is particularly accurate at 100 yards...but much more so with Winchester and CCI 40gr. Hollowpoints than the 30gr. V-Max.

I was getting 1.5"-2" groups with the 40gr. hollowpoints. I was getting 3"-4" groups with the V-Max

Gtscotty
March 19, 2013, 01:38 PM
Most people I've seen over at Rimfire Central have had good results with Hornady 30 gn. V-Max and CCI 30 gn. V-Max in .22 WMR.

My 22 mag barrel prefers lighter weight bullets and does very well with these loads, along with the 30 gr HP CCI. From what I've read, many people's CZs seem to shoot best with the light/fast 22 mag loadings.

ZGunner
March 19, 2013, 01:56 PM
I have a Savage Mark II FV-SR. Awesome accuracy if I do my part, but the stock is terrible! $100 to Boyds Stocks was money well spent. I've handled CZ's and love the way they feel, just haven't brought myself to get one yet.

mach1.3
March 19, 2013, 02:42 PM
I have the CZ455 with .22LR and .17hmr bbls. Am very happy with the accuracy, feel and quality of make. Should I consider buying an extra bbl in .22mag? As of now the only varmints I shoot are squirrels, rabbits, opossums and a rare armadillo. I am a tinkerer so I may have answered my own question.
I have no experience with Savage rifles but am intrigued by their accu-trigger.
Maybe I'll get a nice lever gun in .22mag? Good hunting.

mach1.3
March 19, 2013, 02:45 PM
Oh, btw, I put a Nikon Buckmaster scope in 4.5-14x40 bdc on the 455 and love it.

rvn67n20
March 19, 2013, 02:45 PM
Took my brand-new CZ Trainer out yesterday. 63 year old bi-focaled eyes, using the provided irons, first killed clays @ 50 yds, then broke up all the pieces. Until they were too small to see. Also have a Savage w/Accu-trigger in 17 HMR. It's up for sale. YMMV

chicharrones
March 19, 2013, 05:50 PM
Mossberg 640K
Savage 65M

Neither of these guns is particularly accurate at 100 yards...but much more so with Winchester and CCI 40gr. Hollowpoints than the 30gr. V-Max.

I was getting 1.5"-2" groups with the 40gr. hollowpoints. I was getting 3"-4" groups with the V-Max

Gotcha! We all have to find what our rifles like the best, that's for sure! :cool:

idcurrie
March 19, 2013, 06:42 PM
I have three Savage Mark 2s. They are made here in Canada and they are all crap.

They will ALL lock up if you work the bolt with one finger while shouldered. The trigger will lock up 100% of the time.

The holes in the receiver are not drilled straight so if you take a level to the scope bases you will see that they are not at the same point on the round receiver.

this means that the scope is not perfectly aligned with the barrel and if you sight in for a certain distance, it will shoot either left or right before or after that distance.

Also, the bottom of the bolt is made of ridiculously soft metal and will always bur and roll back on every single bolt 100% of the time.

The 17HMR/22WMR version have bad magazines with feeding problems.

Anyone who likes a savage rimfire simply doesn't know firearms and doesn't know quality - OR - they are blind.

Gtscotty
March 19, 2013, 10:45 PM
Should I consider buying an extra bbl in .22mag?

Definitely.... Mostly because it is cheap, easy and fun to tinker with. CZ 455 barrels are only like $130 directly from CZ, the shipping was pretty fast when I got mine.

PlaneJain
March 19, 2013, 10:54 PM
CZ's all the way for me:
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/Planejain/100_5932_zpsb977392a.jpg

CB900F
March 19, 2013, 11:07 PM
Fella's;

I've had a Savage 93GL, but don't anymore. I do however have a CZ452 lefty. It's my long-range small varmint gun of choice, good to 100 yards.

900F

ElPasoCounty
March 19, 2013, 11:16 PM
CZ.

Cee Zee
March 20, 2013, 01:55 AM
Ge idcurrie. I haven't had more than one of those problems with my MkII. You sure it isn't you that doesn't know how to work them? I do have to say the holes for the scope mount weren't perfect but it took all of 5 seconds to shim it and make it right. It's not the first rifle I've seen with that problem. But my bolt never sticks and my trigger has never locked up. And I don't have burrs on the bottom of my bolt. Do you use the right torque settings on your action screws? Because that could cause those problems you mentioned.

I bet I've seen 5000 reports on Savages on various boards and not one person has said the things you have said. Any rifle can have a problem. Like I said even my CZ has had problems and they were worse than anything my Savage has had. And my Savage shoots more accurate than the CZ. Yeah they're junk alright. You should send yours to me and I'll give it a decent burial - in about 50 years.

I just don't get how someone could have so much trouble from a gun I've had such good luck with especially considering I've seen so many other Savage owners say the same things. Are they Sakos? Now they aren't. But they don't cost nearly as much either and they come close to being as accurate. I know it's a one off group but at 50 yards I've put 4 out of 5 shots in a single hole (not a connected hole - a single hole about .05 bigger than a .22 bullet hole by itself) with the other missing by a whole .2". I've shot groups under 1/8th inch at the same distance and that was all the shots. I had another group with 4 out of 5 under .1". I ran out of ammo on that group and had to get a bullet from another box and I missed a whopping .3" on that one.

Generally the rifle will shoot between .25" and .5" but fairly often I'll get a great group. I shot 2250 on an ATA target with that rifle. Yeah it's a real POS.

idcurrie
March 20, 2013, 10:04 AM
Sorry, but all the savages have the problems. I never said the bolt sticks, though.

I can pick up any one at any gun shop and duplicate each and every problem 100% of the time and have done so many times.

Anyone who doesn't see it, well, some people have different standards and observational skills, I guess.

HOOfan_1
March 20, 2013, 02:22 PM
Why did you buy three then? Fool me once, shame you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool three times???

jimbombo
March 20, 2013, 04:58 PM
CZ makes the nicest rimfire rifles for the money, period.

kyhunter
March 20, 2013, 07:12 PM
Well guys cant post pics dont own a camera. However a new CZ455FS has my name on it ;). Never owned anything with a mannlicher style stock. Pretty sure im hooked.

Cee Zee
March 20, 2013, 08:14 PM
Sorry, but all the savages have the problems.

Sorry but mine doesn't. Funny how that works. My trigger has never locked up. I guess I'm not holding my tongue right or something. And you mentioned working the bolt with one finger and how "they" lock up. Where I went to school you only get one object of the sentence and if you use "they" it means the noun in the sentence.


They will ALL lock up if you work the bolt with one finger while shouldered.

"They" has to refer to the bolt since that's the only noun in the sentence. It's called grammar. Sorry I didn't understand that you didn't use it correctly. It's called a reflexive pronoun and it must refer back to another word in the sentence. I don't care if you use correct grammar or not BTW. I'm just telling you why I thought you were referring to the bolts.

viking499
March 20, 2013, 08:23 PM
All gun makers have some problems with some or all models. Some more than others. Just because one person has had problems with a particular model does not mean that everyone else has had that problem or any problem with that model.

I think the CZ and Savage are both good shooters as a whole. Some will find a CZ that will outshoot a savage and vise versa. Each person will prefer a particular model due to materials used in production or fit and finish.

To me, I think the fit and finish award goes to the CZ. I prefer the CZ over the Savage. Own a handful of the CZ's and currently looking for another. But, that is my personal opinion. From the Savages I have handled in the stores, I have not seen anything that says to me "I like that better than my CZ".

Cee Zee
March 20, 2013, 08:30 PM
You're right that the CZ's are better when it comes to fit and finish viking. It really isn't even close to be honest. I've seen very few complaints about CZ's as a whole. I just happened to get one that had several problems. But it shoots great and the problems have all been fixed except for the soft stock. I still wouldn't take my money back on the rifle or even come close to doing such a thing.

jungle
March 20, 2013, 08:33 PM
CZ-the small difference in price will be long gone when the lifetime of quality is enjoyed. They make guns that capture the best of the good old days at a very reasonable price.

Side by side there really is no comparison.

It is unfortunate that Ruger has priced themselves out of the market with the 77/22, it is a fine rifle at perhaps twice the price of the CZ or Savage.

Really nice rimfire bolt actions are as scarce as hen's teeth today.

Cee Zee
March 21, 2013, 02:43 AM
I don't know about that jungle. I sorta like the added accuracy of my Savage. Sure sometimes the CZ's are more accurate but just as often they aren't. There's a lot to be said for accuracy for as cheap as possible. And the Savages aren't all that bad anyway. They just aren't as nice as the CZ's. To be honest I tend to think that the looks of a gun are overrated when it comes to the value of a gun. I don't buy them to look at. If I wanted something to look at I'd buy some art. I want something that's going to put holes in stuff and put them where I want them. As far as function goes my Marlin XT beats either one of them. It just isn't as accurate as the Savages and the CZ's. But it is one smooth operator. It's pretty accurate too but the Savages and CZ's are very accurate for what you pay for IMO. I could make the same argument you made about a Sako too BTW. It's well worth the price of one to get the added accuracy IMO. Same goes for Anschutz. Some people will pay big money for a really beautiful rifle like a Cooper. I'm not one of those. I'd rather have a plastic stock on a Anschutz and be able to shoot consistent groups all day long. I like nice looking rifles too. I just don't really like paying for looks. Again I'd pay for art if I just wanted to look. I'm not talking modern art BTW. I like folk art to be honest and I have my share of that too. I have a quilt that's probably worth more than all my firearms combined. That's not exactly my thing but my aunt made it and she was quite famous for her work. I prefer wood carvings and the like. I have some of those too. Then there's architecture produced by people who do their own work. I like traditional log cabins and well done modern cabin type structures. I built one myself. I worked on many more. A friend of mine restores 200 year old log cabins. Now that's something to see. I do like a classic steel and wood rifle to hang over the mantle but I like rifles that shoot well whether they look good or not. I have a safe full of those.

dubbleA
March 21, 2013, 08:52 PM
Really nice rimfire bolt actions are as scarce as hen's teeth today.

Not really, Anschutz and Cooper make fine modern rimfires that shoot as good as they look. Whether or not you choose to pay their asking price is going to be a personal matter.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f268/dubbleA/17AS-1.jpg

saenzrich
March 21, 2013, 10:00 PM
Own several of both and have posted before....CZ is the GMC...Savage is the Chevy...just thought Id give a visual idea of the the guns. Both are great, yes savage is accurate, Cz is too, but depends on what you want me I own 3 savages and 5 cz's...overall Cz has better quality control and you can manipulate the trigger to what you want it to be easily...yes the savage too but cz makes it easy. I will take 1/2" groups with all or less at 50 yds both with CCI SV. Either will do well CZ will feel better,but savage will keep up...yes.

.........here we go...thought I'd keep it short and sweet though....

CB900F
March 22, 2013, 04:04 PM
Hmmmm, well if we're going to go down that road, I'll kick this out to "enliven" the discussion, having owned both you understand.

On the one hand we have a Suzuki GSX600 (Savage), and on t'other we've got a Ducati 848EVO (CZ). Yeah, the Duc costs a little more, but look what ya get!

:D 900F

chicharrones
March 22, 2013, 04:32 PM
Thank God you don't have to adjust valves on a CZ. :evil:

steveo452
March 22, 2013, 04:45 PM
I owned the Savage .22lr and bought a CZ 452 American in .22lr. I had them both for about 4 weeks. I still own the CZ. Have since bought more CZ.

HOOfan_1
March 22, 2013, 11:20 PM
Hmmmm, well if we're going to go down that road, I'll kick this out to "enliven" the discussion, having owned both you understand.

On the one hand we have a Suzuki GSX600 (Savage), and on t'other we've got a Ducati 848EVO (CZ). Yeah, the Duc costs a little more, but look what ya get!

:D 900F

How about Savage = Camaro ZL1 CZ= Cadillac CTS-V?

Zeke/PA
March 23, 2013, 08:20 AM
IMHO, you can't go wrong with the CZ's !

ifit
March 23, 2013, 08:35 AM
CZ's:)

berettaprofessor
March 23, 2013, 12:01 PM
Good buy on the CZ. I own a Savage Mark II and the CZ452 and the CZ is much more accurate...and with every load I've tried.

CB900F
March 23, 2013, 12:30 PM
Hoofan;

We're tryin' to keep the money for the vehicles kinda comparable to the guns. Which is why I went to the bikes. Sub-10K gets you the Soozer and some pretty dang good performance too. Sub 10 in the automotive world these days gets you a used Yugo, which isn't fair to the Savage. OTOH, that Camaro is a helluva car but its price in the automotive marketplace isn't where the Savage's is in the firearms marketplace.

I had to do a fair amount of work to my Savage to make it a reliable 80 yard gun. Once I did the ammo testing on the CZ, it's been a 100 yard gun. The targets being a small varmint we have a lot of around here. I didn't mind paying the extra for the better gun. Just like I didn't mind the cost of aquiring the Ducati. And, I'll freely admit that the Duc costs more to maintain than the CZ, but OMG the grin factor is outrageous!

:D:D 900F

aka108
March 23, 2013, 01:36 PM
I read about CZ's being about as good as you could get for the money. I ordered a 453. What I had read was 100% correct. It is one of my favorite 22 rf's and I prefer it to the Anschutz 1416 that it sits next to.

jungle
March 23, 2013, 01:43 PM
Quote:

Not really, Anschutz and Cooper make fine modern rimfires that shoot as good as they look. Whether or not you choose to pay their asking price is going to be a personal matter.
///////////////////////////////////////////


Sorry, I thought we were talking about CZ/Savage price range rifles.

For Cooper money/wait time there is a whole wide range of possibilities.

22-rimfire
March 23, 2013, 03:04 PM
Kyhunter, you made a good choice with the CZ. I assume you will mount a scope on it. In most cases, you need to mount the scope a little higher above the bore than other 22 rifles due to the bolt throw.

I own a Mark II and like it very much. Maybe I'm not so picky. I do prefer my Remington 547, but gee wizz... just a bit of cost difference.

skoro
March 23, 2013, 04:31 PM
Im looking for .22 magnum especially.

I have a CZ 452 Varmint in 22wmr and really like it. Very well built and is like a nice quality centerfire rifle. I also have a Savage MkII BV in 22lr. Love the accutrigger on this one.

In my experience, you can't go wrong with either. But I'd definitely go for a wood or laminate stock on the Savage. Their polymer stocks are no darn good. Very flimsy. The CZ's wood work and metal work are top notch.

Cee Zee
March 24, 2013, 03:15 AM
The CZ's wood work and metal work are top notch.

I don't think they are "top notch". They are very good but not the best. Cooper makes about the best looking rifle I've seen. Anschutz makes the best shooters unless you want to look at custom built 40X rifles from a long time ago. Other custom built rifles obviously work great too.

But again I had rust on my 453. I didn't do anything wrong with it either. No water, strain, stripping finish, whatever. I put some common gun oil on it and in a couple of months I started seeing rust spots. I have never seen them on my Savage. Heck I have a Stevens from 1951 that doesn't ahve any rust on it.

I did get the rust to stop by using a different oil but it shouldn't have done that. And for the record the trigger guards are pretty rough. They are too wide and they have too many sharp edges.

Still I wouldn't sell mine for $100 more than I paid for it.

saenzrich
March 24, 2013, 04:54 PM
The CZ's wood work and metal work are top notch.

You are right referring back to the OP...CZ, hands down has better wood work and metal. That is also why they are a bit more...but not much.

viking499
March 24, 2013, 05:11 PM
Well guys cant post pics dont own a camera. However a new CZ455FS has my name on it . Never owned anything with a mannlicher style stock. Pretty sure im hooked.

Let us know how she shoots when you get her home and set up.

Going to shoot open sights or scope it?

stubbicatt
March 26, 2013, 10:28 AM
In the end I suspect that there will be as much accuracy variation from example to example in the same product line as there will be between examples from each manufacturer. You could get a good one or a not so good one from either. Most would agree that the barrel is the heart of the system, and a good barrel will, all things being equal, tend to make a more consistently accurate rifle.

Due to the CHF barrel making process employed by CZ, I think it more likely that rifles from that manufacturer will be more consistent. I do not know what process Savage uses, but I do remember reading somewhere about an old gaffer that worked at Savage for many years whose expertise was straightening barrels. This implies that many of them are not straight. Straightening is something that cold hammer forged barrels do not need by virtue of the method of manufacturing.

There are other aspects of rifles which are often overlooked in the pursuit of extreme accuracy. These include ergonomics, fit and finish, and other "quality" type concerns. In my opinion, if you can shoulder one of each of your potentials and see how they feel, examine them closely, look for other aspects of manufacture which are important to you. Sometimes I can shoot a "less accurate" rifle better than a "more accurate" rifle because it just feels better, it shoulders easier, etc. In that regard, I prefer conventionally stocked, walnut, rifles over those with pistolgrips and plastic stocks. This is a subjective preference that is of significant value to me. So, ferinstance, one man with an AR 15 might not outshoot another with a Mini 14 in field conditions, even though the benchrest accuracy of the Armalite is superior, if the Mini fits the other one better.

So, I sure hope you make a choice that makes you happy and gives you many years of good service.

For me, CZ has never let me down.

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