AP ammo question


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VVelox
March 18, 2013, 03:46 PM
I was wondering if some one could clear the legality of AP ammo up for me?

From my understanding it was/is legal for rifle/shotgun ammo, but not any thing construed to be pistol ammo, but looking at http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C44.txt it looks like it all illegal.

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suemarkp
March 19, 2013, 12:45 AM
What leads you to that conclusion? You posted a mile long article. Care to highlight what parts make you think it applies to everything?

The main rub in the definition (it says "which can be fired in a handgun") is there are handguns available in most classic rifle calibers. It used to be the ATF just cared about 223 and 308/311 projectiles. But if you look at the Barnes website for their banded solids, most are not available pending ATF review. Some calibers are still "handgun safe", and you can buy those bullets (don't know of any .416 handguns).

There is an "out" for Barnes, and that is if the Attorney General declares those projectiles "sporting purposes" projectiles.

Finally, the restriction is on the manufacturer and licensed dealers (making/selling them is the problem, not possession). There are no issues for you at the federal level unless you have a FFL.

alsaqr
March 19, 2013, 09:56 AM
Last year there was a big hullabaloo when the BATFE raided Elite Ammo. Elite was manufacturing ammunition and bullets that could be used in handguns from a prohibited alloy.

BATFE definition of term "armor piercing ammunition":

Armor piercing ammunition

18 U.S.C., 921(a)(17)(B)
A projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium;

or
A full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

Neo-Luddite
March 19, 2013, 10:42 AM
You pretty much have it. Here in IL ALL AP ammo except for M2AP in .30/06 and 5.56 ss109 is illegal (or likely so) under state law (and I know ss109 isn't nearly AP in fact, but worth mentioning as it is specifically exempt per IL law mesh with ATF rulings). Now I'd love to see a case where someone was posecuted for merely having some AP here in IL, but that's another story. This is something of a 'because the ATF said so" area. As an example, Norinco steel core in 7.62 x 39 was ruled a pistol caliber and banned from import twenty years ago because a company made a pistol for sale in that caliber. Yet, steel core 5.45 x 39 Soviet chuggs on in in quantity. If you look for a logic, you won't find it. I personally don't know of any commercial bullet maker that sells AP anything on the civilian market, either as components or loaded ammo ~ and I'm not sure that they legally could. That said, MUCH military surplus AP is floating around as either de-milled bullets or re-milled completed re-assembled rounds - maybe not as much as fifteen years ago, but it's there if you look.

Hopefully someone will chime it to quote chapter and verse, but the basic idea is that AP that is exists already is likely OK except in pistol calibers and where prohibited by law (as in IL) but that no fresh ammo is being marketed to civilians that I know of.

VVelox
March 19, 2013, 11:53 AM
-HEAD-
Sec. 922. Unlawful acts

-STATUTE-
(a) It shall be unlawful -
[snip...]
(7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing
ammunition, unless -
(A) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the use of the
United States, any department or agency of the United States,
any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision
of a State;
(B) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the purpose of
exportation; or
(C) the manufacture or importation of such ammunition is for
the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been
authorized by the Attorney General;

(8) for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor
piercing ammunition, unless such sale or delivery -
(A) is for the use of the United States, any department or
agency of the United States, any State, or any department,
agency, or political subdivision of a State;
(B) is for the purpose of exportation; or
(C) is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has
been authorized by the Attorney General; (!1)


So looking at this it is illegal to sell it given a8 there, regardless of if it is rifle or pistol.

Neo-Luddite
March 19, 2013, 12:51 PM
So looking at this it is illegal to sell it given a8 there, regardless of if it is rifle or pistol.

*IF* you either manufacture or import it, yes. Read the above statute again. Like I said, if it already exists (ie. mil surp ammo) it can and is sold where otherwise lawful to do so ~ but not by importers or manufacturers

An easier headache: if you know just what kind of AP you are interested in, it's easier to sort out if it is legal or not to own/sell. One of the most effective 'battle rifle' AP rounds, the M2 in .30/06 is 100 % lawful sporting ammo, while mild steel core 7.62 x 39 is not lawful to import anymore. It's case-by-case, type-by-type, to be sure.

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