Seller's Responsiblity


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guyfromohio
March 18, 2013, 09:12 PM
I sold a gun a few weeks ago for a fair price. No gouge, just a fair price ($450 for an old 84f). I followed state and federal law by checking for age and residency (actually had his CHL too, so I felt relatively confident). The next day, I saw what looked like that same gun for sale for $550. Not sure.... Don't really care enough to try to prove it, but my gut says he is flipping it. Before we departed, he asked if I had any of a certain kind of gun. If I have a reasonable suspicion that he's flipping these guns, what is my exposure if I would sell to him? I'm just curious. I've not had contact and won't, but I'm curious of the legality. Any opinions? Again.... In summary... If one legally sells to someone knowing that they are going to turn it around for profit, is the original seller liable/culpable/responsible?

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erikk8829
March 18, 2013, 09:33 PM
I don't see a problem-it is the American way to try and make a profit

guyfromohio
March 18, 2013, 09:35 PM
Is what he is doing a straw sale and is seller #1 an unwitting part of it? Profit away.... Don't really care.

MedWheeler
March 18, 2013, 09:52 PM
Wouldn't be a question if it were a cellphone, computer, or a car, right? In the case you describe, there is no difference. The law does not involve you once a lawfully-sold firearm leaves your hands.

Sam1911
March 18, 2013, 10:36 PM
What he does with it is his concern. You gave him a price you seem to be comfortable with. If you were concerned that he would "flip" it for more money, maybe you should have priced it in such a way as to make that a less attractive possibility.

mcdonl
March 18, 2013, 10:39 PM
Lol. Do what I do. Succumb to sellers remorse and buy it back. I have sold guns and bought them back for more money.

Stupid? Yes but I have my guns back and don't sell now unless I seriously need the money.


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Twmaster
March 18, 2013, 10:40 PM
The seller ultimately sets the price. Do you have two prices? One for flippers and one for everyone else?

Also, just because he is asking a higher prices does not mean that it will sell at that price.

crestoncowboy
March 18, 2013, 10:53 PM
I don't think the op cares about the price or profit, I think he is asking about the legality if he sells to someone knowing they aren't the end purchaser. I think he is asking if this is a straw purchase.
I don't think there is anything wrong with what the op is doing. Or the other guy really. But i'm no lawyer

guyfromohio
March 18, 2013, 11:00 PM
C-cowboy is correct. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. It is my understanding that if you sell guns for profit as a business (not the occasional sale), you need an FFL. I'm concerned that I may somehow be sucked into his mess if he is accused of breaking the law and I am selling to him knowing that he is not the end buyer. Part if me says "not my problem after I sell it if I have followed the law". Another part of me wonders if I'll be a part if a straw purchase if his intent is to pass it along.

Another question to FFL holders..... Do you get in trouble if if your sale becomes a straw sale? What if you knew it wasn't going to the buyer?

Sam1911
March 18, 2013, 11:48 PM
If YOU sold it without violating the law, then you have no further liability.

It CANNOT be a "Straw Purchase" if it did not go through an FFL dealer. The "straw purchase" is a term that describes lying on the federal form 4473. If this is a private sale, there is no form 4473.

As long as you did not "know or have reason to know" that the buyer was not a prohibited person and/or a resident of some other state, you've fulfilled your obligations.

There is ZERO potential liability here.

NavyLCDR
March 19, 2013, 01:54 AM
It would have to be proven that the seller sold multiple guns to the buyer with full knowledge that the buyer was engaged in the business of dealing in firearms without a license and/or providing firearms to (a) prohibited person(s). THEN it would be conspiracy.

JoePfeiffer
March 19, 2013, 03:32 AM
Though having posted your concerns about further sales on the web, selling any more guns to him might not be a good idea...

guyfromohio
March 19, 2013, 06:48 AM
Thank you for the opinions.

Joe.... Indeed. I made the decision not to sell to this guy before posting. That was not lost on me. He's some random Armslist guy, but has a distinct phone number so it's easy to see what he's doing.

Sam1911
March 19, 2013, 09:40 AM
Again, you sold it to him for a "fair" price, but you don't like what he's doing with the gun after the sale? What he does with it afterward isn't your business.

However, if you didn't want him to "flip" it maybe you should have set the price more in line with the market so he wasn't tempted to buy it as "flip" bait.

Those who refuse to charge market prices because that's "gouging" will provide a healthy income to those folks who will...

Somebody got a fat "Benjamin" out of that gun. Too bad it wasn't you. :)

guyfromohio
March 19, 2013, 10:00 AM
Sam... Truly that doesn't bother me one little bit. My only concern is if I continue to sell to him knowing that he is selling to another, am I a part of an illegal activity? Your first answer was a big part of my closure. I paid $400, so I'm not crying about his profit. But I bought it as a shooter and collector whereas he clearly has a side business. I appreciate the responses.

BTW.... I fully support markets being controlled by economic principals. Current prices are annoying, if not sickening, but.... As long as buyers pay and supply is tight....

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