Ak FTE, is it a mag problem?


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TylerS
March 19, 2013, 09:12 PM
This is my first post, but I am not new to the firearm world. I have an Ak that my brother built for me and it worked flawlessly for around 5k rounds. Then all of a sudden it started stove piping about every 40 rounds. I checked the extractor looks like it did when we purchased the receiver and I have replaced the bolt with no effect and even had the gun professionally resurfaced just incase the old paint job was gumming things up. How would I know if it was the mags without going through a thousand rounds. Thanks. Also I am open to other suggestions I have just run out of other ideas of why it is failing to eject properly.

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egg250
March 19, 2013, 09:18 PM
I don't have much experience with AKs....

- Have you cleaned it?
- Is the magazine worn? (feed lips)
- Steel magazines or polymer?
- Have you tried multiple magazines? Is there one magazine that you always have issues with?
- Is the extractor claw/spring worn?
- Have you ever had this issue when cycling by hand?

briansmithwins
March 19, 2013, 09:26 PM
Stripped and clean the bolt?

Don't swap AK bolts without checking headspace.

Also, check the the ejector hasn't chipped off.

BSW

bfoosh006
March 19, 2013, 09:38 PM
No offense ,but...When is the last time you cleaned the chamber ?

Also check your ejector.

TylerS
March 20, 2013, 12:52 PM
The gun, as do all of my guns, get cleaned after each range visit and sometimes for fun, the ejector hasn't been chipped and the spring is in working order. Also when the gun was refinished all metal moving parts where stripped and cleaned. I have about 10 magazines for it and when I look back in retrospect I believe that at points I will go through a full mag without any hiccups. So perhaps I need to hand cycle through a few mags with ammo and see if one does eject properly. Brian... should I put back in my old bolt back in seeing as how it didn't change anything?

Davek1977
March 20, 2013, 01:06 PM
Cycling the rounds through by hand won't necessarily tell you anything. You need to run the mags through the gun, keeping track of whatg mags caused problems. Running loaded rounds through by hand is much different than a fired case being ejected under normal circumstances.

TylerS
March 20, 2013, 01:15 PM
Thats what I was afraid of, I think that I am just going to have to use up some of the ammo stores and test all the mags. Has anyone had feeding problems with mags before on an ak?

briansmithwins
March 20, 2013, 03:12 PM
Feeding problems on a AK can be the receiver being built with the wrong rail height or mag related.

I'd swap back to the original bolt. Did you strip and clean the extractor? Extractor spring is good? Extractor pin is good?

BSW

TylerS
March 20, 2013, 04:43 PM
Yeah I stripped the and cleaned the extractor, actually the entire receiver. The springs and extractor pin is fine. I had about 4,500 rounds previous to this with absolutely no problems. So I am thinking that it is the mags. Now that I am going back through my purchases I think the problems started when I purchased some cheap korean mags from AIM. I will take it out this friday with the old bolt and try out all the mags. Thanks guys for all your help I will let you know how it turns out.

TylerS
March 20, 2013, 04:46 PM
well actually I don't "know" if the extractor spring and pin are fine the reason why I believe that they are fine is that compared to a knew bolt they seem and look the same. Is there another way to tell?

SabbathWolf
March 20, 2013, 04:52 PM
Yeah I stripped the and cleaned the extractor, actually the entire receiver. The springs and extractor pin is fine. I had about 4,500 rounds previous to this with absolutely no problems. So I am thinking that it is the mags. Now that I am going back through my purchases I think the problems started when I purchased some cheap korean mags from AIM. I will take it out this friday with the old bolt and try out all the mags. Thanks guys for all your help I will let you know how it turns out.
Do you have other mags to run, or do you "only" have these Korean mags?
Why did you change bolts?

TylerS
March 20, 2013, 04:56 PM
I was told about a year ago when I started having the problem that the bolt could be the problem, saw one for 20 bucks new so I picked it up hoping it would solve the problem. I have about 10 mags 3 or 4 are the korean ones but the rest are the ones that I have had since I got the rifle. So I am thinking it might be those mags. I don't think 5k rounds is enough to ruin an ak???

SabbathWolf
March 20, 2013, 05:06 PM
I was told about a year ago when I started having the problem that the bolt could be the problem, saw one for 20 bucks new so I picked it up hoping it would solve the problem. I have about 10 mags 3 or 4 are the korean ones but the rest are the ones that I have had since I got the rifle. So I am thinking it might be those mags. I don't think 5k rounds is enough to ruin an ak???
OK...so.....
Did your problem start after you changed bolts, or, did your problem start when using the Korean mags?
That "should" be your answer right there.

TylerS
March 20, 2013, 05:27 PM
mags came before the bolt. Ya know, I should have logically come to that conclusion but for whatever reason couldn't make the connection. I am going out friday and will test all the mags. Thanks everyone for all the help.

SabbathWolf
March 20, 2013, 06:02 PM
mags came before the bolt. Ya know, I should have logically come to that conclusion but for whatever reason couldn't make the connection. I am going out friday and will test all the mags. Thanks everyone for all the help.
Yep. Live-Fire Testing is the only way to know for certain.
Test the bolts too, not just the mags.
Without testing both, you'll still not get the answer you need.

If the mags run fine with the original bolt, but malfunction with the "new" bolt, then it's most likely the new bolt causing the problems.

If the mags malfunction with BOTH bolts, then it's most likely the magazines.

I own an AK too, so good luck and I hope you work this out.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/smilies/16a36a55.gif

wally
March 20, 2013, 09:17 PM
Has anyone had feeding problems with mags before on an ak?

Are any of your mags Pro-Mag or Tapco? That'd be the most likely explanation.


Both bolts?

AK bolts are not generally interchangeable like AR bolts usually are.

stubbicatt
March 20, 2013, 10:18 PM
FTE? Failure to eject or is it failure to extract?

Neither of these issues will be magazine related. I'd start with a good chamber cleaning. Then, assemble the rifle and look into the magazine well while hand cycling the bolt/carrier assembly. Look to see whether the tip of the ejector rides really closely in the groove in the bolt, and through the slot cut in the bolt. If there is excessive clearance between the slot in the bolt and the tip of the ejector, this could be your issue.

Too, stovepipes can be caused by an obstructed gas port from the barrel into the gas block on the barrel. If the action is "under gassed" ejection can be problematic. To address this issue, get you one of those gas port reamers and run it down the port to make sure it is unobstructed.

That's all I have. Good luck.

InkEd
March 20, 2013, 10:53 PM
When will people learn, if it ain't broke don't fix it!

TylerS
March 20, 2013, 11:34 PM
InkEd - I didn't try to fix it, until it was broken...

stubbicatt - The chamber is clean, I checked the bolt in relation to the extractor and it fits right in the groove and it just barely doesn't touch the bolt. I haven't checked the gas tube at the gas block. However, I don't think it is under gassed because when it extract it send the casing 15 to 20 feet out. While that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't blocked I would think that is a good indicator.

I am wondering why you think that the magazines can't be the problem. It seems that if the spring or the follower was to get hung up on the mag body that could cause a problem. Then again I am the one with the problem so I am not sure.

Wally - The gun is Romanian (not a WASR) they are both romanian bolts for the national guard kit guns, we bought them about 9 years ago for $75 with a $50 receiver.

stubbicatt
March 21, 2013, 06:33 AM
If it is an extraction failure, how could a cartridge "feeding" device affect it? If it is an ejection issue, again, how does the "feeding" device affect that? The magazines affect feeding, but in the Kalashnikov they do not affect extraction or ejection.

RustHunter87
March 21, 2013, 01:43 PM
I have to agree with the others tyler I dont read this as a magazine issue.
I could be your ammo, have you tried different ammo?
Personally I think Stubbs is on the right track and the gas port is clogged up, clean the barrel and chamber with lots of solvent than plug the chamber and apply compressed air to the muzzle to blast the gunk out.
Good luck

TylerS
March 21, 2013, 02:48 PM
That makes sense Stubb, last night after reading your comment I scrubbed the chamber again, it seemed good but you never know, then i poured solvent through the gas chamber/block until it ran clear... I hope that fixes it because this ak has sentimental value and hope that functions flawlessly. I really appreciate all of your guys' input, again this is my first post and am really grateful for everyone helping.

SabbathWolf
March 21, 2013, 04:42 PM
If it is an extraction failure, how could a cartridge "feeding" device affect it? If it is an ejection issue, again, how does the "feeding" device affect that? The magazines affect feeding, but in the Kalashnikov they do not affect extraction or ejection.
Not to be argumentative but....
A slightly "out of spec" magazine can have an effect on extraction too.
I learned this the hard way many years ago with an old mini-14 I no longer have anyways.
I bought some el-cheapo mags for it one year.
They fed every round just fine, but would cause the bolt/carrier to get hung up at about the half way point during it's rearward travel while trying to extract & eject.
Not being a gunsmith, I can't explain the exact reason why.
But, the very same ammo loaded in a "Factory" magazine never suffered that problem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/smilies/d122c6e0.gif


Might not be the mags at all....just like you say.
I'm only suggesting not to rule out the possibility without actual testing first.

TylerS
March 21, 2013, 06:36 PM
well on friday I have 400 rounds to go through and I will let all of you know my findings.

SabbathWolf
March 21, 2013, 07:19 PM
well on friday I have 400 rounds to go through and I will let all of you know my findings.
Is it all the same ammo or different types?

Either way man, good luck and keep us posted.
On the bright side, "somebody" here must be right.
:D

TylerS
March 21, 2013, 07:36 PM
wolf, tula, yugo mil surp, and some silver bear. I don't want to get anything more expensive because, well, its too expensive. The first few thousand rounds were a mixed bag of steel cased ammo.

SabbathWolf
March 21, 2013, 07:46 PM
wolf, tula, yugo mil surp, and some silver bear. I don't want to get anything more expensive because, well, its too expensive. The first few thousand rounds were a mixed bag of steel cased ammo.
Great. This way you'll be removing ammo out of the equation if testing various brands and still having the same issues.

GunTech
March 22, 2013, 03:45 PM
You can rule out the magazines by testing without one. If it extracts and ejects when single loading, look to make sure you don't have excessive bolt drag. Pretty rare in a gun with this many rounds downrange, unless fire control parts have been changed.

SabbathWolf
March 25, 2013, 08:32 PM
So what's the deal Tyler?
Did you get your testing done or no?

TylerS
March 26, 2013, 01:29 AM
Long story short my shooting buddy was hospitalized last night and wasnt able to go today. Hopefully wed.

TylerS
April 2, 2013, 08:08 PM
I went out yesterday and it wasn't a magazine problem. I think that when the finish started to strip it clogged the gas block. The reason why I believe this is because when I first took it out and started shooting it, it was only ejecting barely with a lot of failure to extracts. I went through 350 rounds and slowly but surely the more I shot (regardless of the mag) it started to function properly. It went from every other shot being a FTE to hardly any FTE towards the end. Any thoughts?

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