I don't think they expected the push back we gave them


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gym
March 21, 2013, 10:01 AM
Doesn't mean it's over because it's far from over, but perhaps Obamma didn't expect the backlash he recieved from the guys like us, who wrote letters every week and made calls and contributed money to fight this crud.
Perhaps he may alter his approach to disarming America, or at least lay off for the time being, as between Lybia and Isreal, he has his plate full at the moment.
I always thought, and mentioned it here, that this is why he put Biden in charge. So he can have deniability if these laws didin't make it through.
Biden on the other hand will say we passed signifficant changes.
Now we need to have the laws that they did pass overturned in court, while continuing to write letters and get a list of who to vote for in upcoming elections. If we lose our right to keep and bear arms, we lose everything.

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Queen_of_Thunder
March 21, 2013, 10:24 AM
The Easter recess is upon us. Make appointments with your rep to visit with him if he returns home. Call his/her local office and schedule that appointment. Get that face time. If your rep is not supportative then find an opponent for the primarys. Do it now.

rdhood
March 21, 2013, 11:03 AM
I don't think they expected the push back we gave them

????. I'm not sure what planet you have been on, but the reason that they haven't been beating the drums of confiscation since the day the last AWB expired is because they KNEW the push back that would come. They only pushed this now because they thought the time was ripe to take advantage of the Sandy Hook shooting. They overestimated their support and overreached for their goals (by making nearly all semi autos illegal). I wished that they would take a floor vote in the Senate so that we could get, on the record, those anti's who would undercut the 2nd. That way, folks could realize that these fiscal conservative/socially liberal politicians ARE a danger each and every second they hold office. They will pledge to the NRA today and (given the right opportunity) vote against the NRA tomorrow. If you are in a state with a Harry Reid or a Joe Manchin or an Al Franken, it is only a matter of the next shooting incident or two (or ten) before they get bold enough or empowered enough to take away your rights. Get rid of them at the next election or put all of our rights at risk!

RetiredUSNChief
March 21, 2013, 11:04 AM
I think they DID expect a push. Perhaps even the size they got. They are fully aware of the size and political/financial clout of their opponents and the reaction they will get from them.

You've got to remember that these people are in this for the long haul. Individuals come and go, but the party platform lives on.

So the push will ALWAYS be there, to one extent or another. And one common tactic is to give a HUGE push on something major...and then fall back on "minor" and "more reasonable/acceptable" terms when that fails.

Don't budge. Not an inch. Which translates into "keep up the pressure".

wojownik
March 21, 2013, 11:14 AM
Agreed - they fully expected the push back. The AWB was destined to fail. In some respects, it was almost designed to fail. Now the focus will move to more "moderate" proposal.

Honestly, we need to stop the back-slapping over the failure of the Feinstein AWB.
- it was not going to pass as stand-alone legislation
- part or all of it could be reintroduced as an amendment or rider to other legislation
- this clears the way for putting additional gun control proposals on the table, like universal background checks (a la universal registration), magazine capacity limits, and so forth.

The real work starts now ... defining why more "reasonable" proposals are not in fact that reasonable either ...

MedWheeler
March 21, 2013, 11:31 AM
^^ The above. This was designed to fail so that it, in a somewhat reduced format, can be slipped in again to another bill package at a later date, and they can claim a "compromise", (something they will continue to sound off that we never offer.)

SleazyRider
March 21, 2013, 11:36 AM
There'll be no celebrating by me while my New York brethren are still subjected to seven-round mag restrictions and other draconian measures. And if it can happen to us, it can happen to you. (Yes, I know, "move to Texas and other 'free' states," but that doesn't really solve anything.) Isn't it a unique feature of the Second Amendment that its protections aren't equally afforded to all citizens in all states, as are the other Amendments? How would it be if slavery or free speech was dependent upon the state in which you lived?

1911Tuner
March 21, 2013, 12:46 PM
I'd like to think that it had more to do with the unprecedented spike in gun and ammunition sales. Several dealers I've talked to say that it beats all they've ever seen, heard tell of, or stepped in.
One told me that his ammunition is being sold as soon as it's unloaded from the truck without even hitting the shelves.

That's a clear message. Though a few on Capitol Hill seem to have missed it, others apparently didn't.

mljdeckard
March 21, 2013, 12:48 PM
If anything, I would say they caught US off guard, in that we underestimated how effective they would be in targeting weak states for new laws.

AlexanderA
March 21, 2013, 12:55 PM
I smell desperation on the part of the antigunners. For example, Chris Matthews on MSNBC begged his audience to contact their representatives on behalf of the AWB, even to the point of putting the phone number up on the screen. I don't recall him having done that for any other cause.

Agsalaska
March 21, 2013, 12:59 PM
I dont think the administration was caught off guard, but I do think many in the media who thought they had what they needed in Sandy Hook were caught completely off guard. I read an article by an east coast or west coast liberal talking about how assault weapons are this and that, then I go visit the LGS and see moms and pops, blacks and whites, gays and straights, all lined up to buy these rifles as they come off the truck. I always wonder what some of those people would think if they just stood there for a minute and watched. I think a lot of them would just move to France.

MagnumDweeb
March 21, 2013, 01:19 PM
The actions of anti-gunners accomplished several things. Reinvigorated NRA membership, got gunnies to realize we may have to make some single-issue vote decisions (i voted for Alan Grayson- D and Marco Rubio- R, now there will be no Ds on my votes), got SAFE ACT passed, took down Colorado for the time being, created a whole slew of possible cases to go to the SCOTUS over the next decade, got gun grabbers to come out of the closet against guns, and helped the AR-15 become an even more popular firearm in today's market. I know a dozen buyers-in-waiting with a thousand dollar budget so soon as they can find one for less than a grand they are going to snatch it up.

We won a little, we lost a little, now the fight is on and we have to stay vigilant and push for more victories in the courtroom, street, house and senate, and every day life.

Blackbeard
March 21, 2013, 01:23 PM
They did expect the push back. The reason they didn't do this in 2009 when they had the House and a filibuster-proof Senate, is that they knew it'd cost Obama a second term. They wanted Healthcare reform badly and used their numbers to ram it through by the skin of its teeth.

I'm sure they were all overjoyed last December after Sandy Hook apparently gave them the political momentum they'd need to get AWB2 done, or so they thought.

SilentStalker
March 21, 2013, 01:38 PM
The fight is far from over. It will never be over and in fact I think this whole we are defeated junk they are feeding everyone right now is a ploy to get people to back off. And while you guys may think this is a victory of some proportion consider this, there are now more anti-gun states than there were meaning they may not have won it all but they certainly made an impact. Its just like football, as long as you can move the ball down the field 10 yds. every play you will when the game, a small part at a time, but you will win the game if you can do that every possession. its kind of the same thing here. They are doing it incrementally and winning IMO.

gym
March 21, 2013, 02:29 PM
As I meant they underestimated the push back. The President appearing on TV with the kids was supposed to help lock in some sort of AWB, but failed. I saw Fienstein on CNN "I believe it was yesterday", telling the moderator that Harry Reed, had promised her one more chance for a vote for an ammendment before it was finished.
I am no a political expert, but she said she would be very dissapointed if he went back on his word.
So obviouslly we all know it isnt by any means over. But the intensity and even the tone of the responses I recieved from everyone "other than the White House" had drastically changed from the first round of letters to the most recent.
They know we aren't going to let it slide by.
The President is backing away from this and declaring a win, "which is what he does", being able to point to NY and CO, along with saying that the background check issue is proceeding. This will probablly be where it stays for now, when all is said and done, what I fear is another incident, which would put this back on the front burner again. Thank God they got that kid yesterday before he struck, that would have restarted the whole thing again.
He has other pressing matters to deal with now that he has support for, so he won't waste any more time, "for now" on guns, unless there is another incident.
Along with what Tuner said, about more people buying guns and ammo, than ever before, they put more guns on the street with all their rethoric.
I see folks who were not interested in guns at all, buying a gun. This had to be an unintended, and undesireable consequence, for politicians who are anti-gun.
I think that one must look at society and assume that bad things will occasionally happen, and nothing we ever do will stop them .Just as good things happen, but they just don't make the news, only bad news is news.

HorseSoldier
March 21, 2013, 02:30 PM
I think at least some of them knew what was coming, but were also cognizant of increasing firearms ownership and increasing ownership of specifically the kind of weapons they fear most. So they jumped on any chance in front of them now to play for the big win for fear they will lose in a longer fight. SCOTUS isn't with them, gun rights have been making steady in roads for a generation, etc.

Some of them recognized they are losing, so they gambled on a big win before demography completely marginalized them.

JERRY
March 21, 2013, 02:50 PM
this nation wide success unpredictably missed colorado but was easily predicted in new york state.

The-Reaver
March 21, 2013, 02:57 PM
They're worried about mid-terms

racenutz
March 21, 2013, 03:07 PM
I feel the antis thought they would have free reign to make this country another UK or Australia in the first few weeks after Sandy Hook. I remember reading articles about banning guns totally, eliminating all CCW permits nationwide, etc. I do think they were surprised that while citizens were willing to listen to arguments about banning assault weapons they were not even close to agreeing that all guns should be banned.

Certaindeaf
March 21, 2013, 03:16 PM
Don't confuse push-back with a hair pull takedown. I think they are making ready. Make ready.

huntsman
March 21, 2013, 03:25 PM
I don't know about you all but I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I just don't believe this evil is giving up easy.

rdhood
March 21, 2013, 03:45 PM
I don't know about you all but I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

This. Waiting on the "common sense compromise" that "we can all agree" on.

Remember, even GW Bush declared that he would sign a new AWB if it got to his desk. This is not a Republican/Democrat thing even if it mostly follows along party lines. EVERY ELECTION will be weighed by the anti-2nd faction for a new push. EVERY mass shooting incident has the possibility of causing a new push for gun control.

Thus, in the future, have your guns and ammo in line BEFORE the next national election. As you can see from the last two national elections, the day after might be too late!

bds
March 21, 2013, 03:53 PM
For me and especially those in California, this simply has been another battle in our protracted war. Believe me, we are in a war.

In this latest battle, the antis showed more clearly of their true and ultimate goal - To take guns away from law abiding citizens. They may be crafty in their appearances but their objective is to violate/infringe on the US Constitution/Second Amendment and take away the means we can protect ourselves from criminals and oppressive government.

"We the People" must once again stand and fight for our freedom so that our children and their children can enjoy the freedom our forefathers envisioned for this great nation!

Stand and fight ... and keep pushing back!

MagnunJoe
March 21, 2013, 04:41 PM
If Congress goes democrat in 2 years we'll be in so much trouble we not be able to push back.

22-rimfire
March 21, 2013, 04:52 PM
I always chuckle when Feinstein and Schumer say it is the NRA's fault, the powerful gun lobby... I think that things are the way they are because of everyday gun owners who are aware of the political situation.

The NRA is good for fighting the big fights where it requires significant financial resouces.

mljdeckard
March 21, 2013, 05:14 PM
^^I tell people that the NRA is made up of people like myself, and they do exactly what we pay them to, because it is more cost effective than all of us trying to do it on our own.

Tom from WNY
March 21, 2013, 05:26 PM
For those who believe that the fight for 2A is over because Feinstein's bill did not make it to the Senate floor this time, you are delusional. The war has just begun and we won the first skirmish. Battles are yet to shape up at the Federal level. Schumer's UBC bill has yet to come up and there are gun owners that think UBC's, as defined by Chucky, are OK.

The real battles are being fought at the State level. NY is a warzone, and we are working hard to get any sort of victory (we do have the Emperor a bit frazzled). CO just experienced a loss; I think CO gun owners now know what the war will look like. IL thought they would finally see CCW's; the legislature is fighting IL gun owners to strip them of their rights. The Anti crowd knows that they have resources behind them (like Dictator Bloomberg's bank account) and by fighting in the States, they will try to bleed us out. Be vigilant and aware, $$ do not = numbers of voters!

One good thing about us in the anti-2A States is that we did not let down our guard and fought with all weapons. Now is the time for all good gun owners to stand up for the cause across the United States of America.

Tob
March 22, 2013, 12:01 AM
The fight will never be over, as others have said.

The anti's are doing their best to characterize gun owners as failing to see "common sense," or "uncompromising."

We must continue to argue logically with any who would listen. We must teach our kids to respect guns rather than to fear them, as many of our schools are trying to do.

The fight is on many different platforms, and we must meet it on each of them.

MachIVshooter
March 22, 2013, 12:14 AM
this nation wide success unpredictably missed colorado but was easily predicted in new york state.

Well, in the long term, they may have done us a favor here.

It sucks right now, but if all the conversations, polls, responses to articles and posts on Hick's FB page are any indication, they have just handed the state's government to the GOP on a silver platter.

NY'er
March 22, 2013, 12:52 AM
and not just in Colorado my friend~ there are lots of people from both parties here in NY that are alarmed by the way the SAFE act was bullied into law, the "representatives" that allowed it to happen and the "too-bad-so-sad, you'll do as we tell you you peasants, I did want I want and tough cookies if you don't like it" attitude coming from our Governor. Not to mention Bloombergs soda-FAIL~

We just have to hold the lines until election time and GOP- here we come!!!

HorseSoldier
March 22, 2013, 12:59 AM
and not just in Colorado my friend~ there are lots of people from both parties here in NY that are alarmed by the way the SAFE act was bullied into law, the "representatives" that allowed it to happen and the "too-bad-so-sad, you'll do as we tell you you peasants, I did want I want and tough cookies if you don't like it" attitude coming from our Governor. Not to mention Bloombergs soda-FAIL~

+1. It is interesting that anti-2A leadership is not just ignoring the will of their constituents, but are abusing the democratic process to enact, or try to enact, their agendas. Cuomo's midnight romp and Colorado's fast track on their bills both suggest that the anti-2A types don't feel very secure in their position and believe that the more public input on their ideas the less likely they are to succeed.

bds
March 22, 2013, 01:02 AM
Yes, that's scary. That's not reflective of democracy this country represents but rather totalitarian/anarchy!

I hope that was a wake up call to many, especially to those claiming to be democrats/liberals.

The founding fathers wrote the Constitution/Second Amendment to protect us from such abuse of power!

NY'er
March 22, 2013, 01:12 AM
It's even worse than that HorseSoldier, Cuomo has been quoted saying outright that he knew it didn't have a chance in hell of passing if anyone had a chance to read it, let alone debate it or even get public input beforehand. And the pushback by most counties, sheriffs and the public at large is the proof in that pudding~

jmorris
March 22, 2013, 01:21 AM
Just like he waited to win his second term before a jab at the 2nd, he is now going to let this die down and win mid term and then the game is on full tilt.

NY'er
March 22, 2013, 01:32 AM
Win midterm??? Dude, seriously? I'm thinking the next few elections will bring about an unprecedented amount of changes in our elected representatives, very much in favor of the GOP!

SleazyRider
March 22, 2013, 06:32 AM
Win midterm??? Dude, seriously? I'm thinking the next few elections will bring about an unprecedented amount of changes in our elected representatives, very much in favor of the GOP!
You must have watched a different CPAC meeting than I did.

beatledog7
March 22, 2013, 07:59 AM
Has it occurred to anyone that the entire AWB and mag restriction push was always just a left-hand ruse to distract us from what the right hand was doing? That Sen Feinstein knew from jump street that those provisions would never get a vote and was simply employed in the role of gadfly?

The Majority Leader says no to the AWB and magazine capacity limits, but UBC--the real objective because it opens the door to registration and then confiscation--is still in the gun control bill.

UBC is the right hand of the anti-gunners, the one they have always thought and still think can win because, as they say, it's just reasonable to make sure crooks and nut jobs can't get guns, and UBC will do that. That load of bull has played very well in Peoria, and there's no real indication that it won't pass. When it does, the next thing will be "realization" that it's impossible to enforce UBC without registration, so the President will sign an Executive action to implement that step, legitimized by the concept of enforcement facilitation.

While Senator Feinstein wrings her hands and gets all boo-hooey over not getting her vote on AWB, and we celebrate the probable defeat of AWB and magazine restrictions, the anti's laugh at us for being so gullible and quietly instigate the mechanism for taking all our firearms.

Folks, there's nothing to celebrate until we defeat UBC.

bds
March 22, 2013, 08:29 AM
^^^^^^^^

Ding Ding Ding!!!

DoubleMag
March 22, 2013, 08:36 AM
NORMAL NATIONAL POLITIkAL THINKING AND TIMELINE.

"We won" makes any party think mandate. A tragedy happens, and El Prez acts on that alleged 'mandate'. Look this is simple left wing politboro activity, quickly into a new dynasty er, excuse me term, FILL THE TOILET with as much crap as possible. Hit the lever, lever again, plunger, plunge plunge again. 5 gal bucket of water, GET IT DOWN and cleaned up before next election cycle.

They definately expected some complaints even a few 'nuts' saying we ain't doin' it.

They DID NOT expect 3 nationwide flash marches, armed in as many areas as possible. That's a chiller folks think about it the National Mall has been filled b4, statehouses etc with no helmet protests, voting rights, gays....never armed.

Think politically....and listen hundreds if not thousands of miles away, NY statehouse THOUSANDS showed up and yelled "WE WILL NOT COMPLY...WE WILL NOT COMPLY"

Most politicians of any dynasty er, excuse me term don't want any part of that

REMAIN VIGILANT...write (pen and paper with misspeledd ;)words) phone calls emails !!

RetiredUSNChief
March 22, 2013, 06:21 PM
Win midterm??? Dude, seriously? I'm thinking the next few elections will bring about an unprecedented amount of changes in our elected representatives, very much in favor of the GOP!
I hope you're correct. But you'd better take a hard look at actual demographics on that and not go by your feelings on this before you get your hopes up.

NYC is as well established on liberal control as Chicago. And that's TIGHT. Even a hardcore turnout of conservative voters will have an extremely difficult time, not only because of the numbers against them, but because the tactics and money is against them as well. Numbers are easy to counter with money and strategic control of traditionally liberal assets, such as media, unions, social programs, and so forth.

I DO wish you the best of luck. Certainly a darn strong conservative movement would be great to boot some people. But even if people are booted, the system is thoroughly liberal and it'll be a constant battle to affect changes. This means that it's entirely possible for liberals to set the state for a return in force, simply because they can tweek public dissatisfaction by impeding conservative policy and changes, then saying "SEE! They can't get anything done, so you need to vote us back in!"

If you do get voting results, PLEASE back that up in force for the long haul!

Twmaster
March 22, 2013, 09:50 PM
Has it occurred to anyone that the entire AWB and mag restriction push was always just a left-hand ruse to distract us from what the right hand was doing? That Sen Feinstein knew from jump street that those provisions would never get a vote and was simply employed in the role of gadfly?

The Majority Leader says no to the AWB and magazine capacity limits, but UBC--the real objective because it opens the door to registration and then confiscation--is still in the gun control bill.

UBC is the right hand of the anti-gunners, the one they have always thought and still think can win because, as they say, it's just reasonable to make sure crooks and nut jobs can't get guns, and UBC will do that. That load of bull has played very well in Peoria, and there's no real indication that it won't pass. When it does, the next thing will be "realization" that it's impossible to enforce UBC without registration, so the President will sign an Executive action to implement that step, legitimized by the concept of enforcement facilitation.

While Senator Feinstein wrings her hands and gets all boo-hooey over not getting her vote on AWB, and we celebrate the probable defeat of AWB and magazine restrictions, the anti's laugh at us for being so gullible and quietly instigate the mechanism for taking all our firearms.

Folks, there's nothing to celebrate until we defeat UBC.
This is worth repeating. The UBC, IMHO, -is- the 800 pound gorilla. We must defeat this. Once that camel gets it's nose under the tent it just goes downhill from there.

I pray Rep. Bob Goodlatte (House Judiciary Committee Chairman) is good about his words for no gun bills to make it out of committee.

lloveless
March 23, 2013, 06:22 AM
So what does UBC mean?
LL

lloveless
March 23, 2013, 06:23 AM
Nothing I heard from the CPAC, makes me hopeful!
LL

kyhunter
March 23, 2013, 06:42 AM
So what does UBC mean I posed the same question and was flamed for it.

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Schumer-Universal-Background-Checks/2013/03/12/id/494397

checks with registration.
enforcement.
restrictions.
confiscation.

Hacker15E
March 23, 2013, 08:03 AM
Two months ago, the gun control proponents and the media were mentioning the AWB first, then magazine limits second, and then UBCs third. That's the order of importance they put on each of those measures at the time.

The idea that "the AWB was designed to fail" or that "UBCs were the REAL goal..." is just RETCON on the part of gun control proponents now that the AWB has not received the rousing support they expected. Feinstein and many others fully, completely believed they would and could pass the AWB and other measures. The massive over-reach of the AWB is not some kind of calculation to set the goalposts a long way away (although that is certainly part of the result), but rather what gun control proponents really, actually wanted to achieve.

Let's recall the post 2012 election orgy of hubris that the left seemed to wallow in. They felt that the POTUS' re-election gave them a mandate to push through the full measures of their agendas. They really believed that Sandy Hook would be the coup de gráce, the cherry on top, that would make the gun control aspect of that mandate possible, and the echo-chambers of the media made it appear to them that everyone in America was on board with that plan.

Now that the AWB doesn't have all the support they believed it would, they are switching horses mid-stream to support the other measures that haven't had dirt kicked in their faces yet so they do not have to admit failure. It's Pee Wee Herman saying "I meant to do that" after flipping over the handlebars on his bike -- you can bet that if magazine limits and UBCs end up with the same resistance, they'll also fall back to other positions of support so they won't have to admit failure there, either.

I think those of you who think "this is all part of one big calculated plan" are giving way too much credit to the gun control forces. Wanting to achieve an objective, having a cogent strategy to achieve that objective, and executing that plan are three very separate concepts. I think that the gun control crowd has a lot of the first, but not enough of the second and third to actually make it a complete reality. That certainly doesn't diminish the threat, because even a disorganized clown-show of a warplan executed by idiots can still inflict a significant bit of damage. The threat is still there, and is going to be there for a long time, and is going to approach from many different angles on many different levels.

As others have said, the AWB news is a small victory in a small skirmish in a much large battle and war. It is NOT an indicator that the war is won by ANY means, but it is an indicator that the enemy is not quite as tall as they made themselves out to be prior to the start of the war.

Zeke/PA
March 23, 2013, 08:11 AM
Universal Backround Check !
My searches tell me that in 2012 over 80,000 "gun buyers" nation wide, told lies on Federal Form 4473 after which a total of SIX prosecutions took place.
The UBC to me, means merely ANOTHER piece of un-enforced Gun Legislation that will ONLY be adhered to by our current law abiding folks.
NRA Endowment Member

vito
March 23, 2013, 08:57 AM
A few points:
- Look at the countries where gun confiscation has taken place in recent history. It is always preceded by registration. The real goal of universal background checks is to create a national gun registry. Watch how the anti-gun faction in the Senate is resisting language in their proposal that would prohibit the establishment of such a registry. The reality of how few prosecutions takes place even now for someone failing the background check shows that it is not truly intended just to stop the sale of guns to unqualified individuals.
- Our fight will never be over. We can only be free from gun control to a certain degree, while those pushing for gun control can always try again and again to limit our freedom.
- America continues to become more and more urbanized. And large cities are the place where gun control is most accepted. While overall gun and ammo sales are way up, there is some evidence that gun owners are a shrinking percentage of the total population, something that bodes badly for us.
- The NRA is our strongest tool in the effort to stop erosion of the 2A. Imagine if instead of 4-5 million members we had 10 or 15 million of us in the NRA. Even with thousands of new memberships being registered every day we will not get to the 10 million mark for several years. We need tens of thousands of new members daily; we can all do our part by encouraging everyone we know to become part of the NRA.

A final comment: While I don't expect grammar and spelling to be perfect in forum thread comments, some of the comments on this particular thread are so poorly written as to make it unclear as to what the writer was trying to express. I encourage followers of the THR to take a moment longer when composing a thread comment and try to make it understandable in reasonably proper English.

buck460XVR
March 23, 2013, 12:14 PM
I'd like to think that it had more to do with the unprecedented spike in gun and ammunition sales. Several dealers I've talked to say that it beats all they've ever seen, heard tell of, or stepped in.
One told me that his ammunition is being sold as soon as it's unloaded from the truck without even hitting the shelves.

That's a clear message. Though a few on Capitol Hill seem to have missed it, others apparently didn't.


While it does speak loudly, a louder message would be if those sales were being made by more first time gun owners. Unfortunately, it seems most of the ammo and guns disappearing off the shelves is being bought by folks already into the shooting sports. While it increases the amount of firearms owned, it is not increasing the number of gun owners. IMHO, This is where we need to focus. We need to get back to introducing those youth and young adults to the shooting sports that previously had no experience. We need to teach them responsible gun ownership and ethics. We need to teach them not only to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights, but the right to vote......responsibly. They are the future, and until guns can vote instead of gun owners, gun numbers themselves mean little.

r1derbike
March 23, 2013, 12:51 PM
Feinstein and Obama are alive and well, continuing to push 2nd Amendment and Constitutional travesty:

http://www.nraila.org/get-involved-locally/grassroots/grassroots-alerts/2013/vol-20,-no-12-03222013.aspx?s=&st=&ps=

shafter
March 23, 2013, 01:00 PM
Oh they expected the push-back alright. They also didn't expect to push their whole agenda through right now either. They hit us with as much as they can and hope some sticks. It works little by little. I didn't expect Colorado to turn the way it did. It goes to show you how even a state with a solid gun culture can change when enough people move in with different ideas.

NY'er
March 23, 2013, 01:13 PM
RetiredUSNChief, happily this isn't a red vs blue thing~
it's a Red White & Blue thing!

Take a look at the map of counties that have already passed Resolutions opposing the SAFE act.
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b546/thewapbucket/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20Marcs%20MacBook%20Pro/Map0012_zps67ced7a1.jpg

It seems the previously apathetic masses of NON-voters are becoming politically, vocally and actively involved over all of this, and that set of additional voters are already firmly on our side!

mokin
March 23, 2013, 06:37 PM
I think they anticipated a strong push back. Here in Colorado, I think they may have been a little more succcessful than they hoped but I think the antis figured if they won it will cost them in the midterm elections. Like someone else wrote above, "I am waiting for the other shoe to fall". Is it paranoid of me to wonder what the Democratic leadership intends to do for all their faithful minions who followed the directives and voted agianst the will of thier constituants.

Lost Sheep
March 23, 2013, 06:57 PM
Has it occurred to anyone that the entire AWB and mag restriction push was always just a left-hand ruse to distract us from what the right hand was doing? That Sen Feinstein knew from jump street that those provisions would never get a vote and was simply employed in the role of gadfly?

The Majority Leader says no to the AWB and magazine capacity limits, but UBC--the real objective because it opens the door to registration and then confiscation--is still in the gun control bill.

UBC is the right hand of the anti-gunners, the one they have always thought and still think can win because, as they say, it's just reasonable to make sure crooks and nut jobs can't get guns, and UBC will do that. That load of bull has played very well in Peoria, and there's no real indication that it won't pass. When it does, the next thing will be "realization" that it's impossible to enforce UBC without registration, so the President will sign an Executive action to implement that step, legitimized by the concept of enforcement facilitation.

While Senator Feinstein wrings her hands and gets all boo-hooey over not getting her vote on AWB, and we celebrate the probable defeat of AWB and magazine restrictions, the anti's laugh at us for being so gullible and quietly instigate the mechanism for taking all our firearms.

Folks, there's nothing to celebrate until we defeat UBC.
Thank you. I have been trying to summarize that concept ever since I started a thread last month.

First UBC as a law. Difficult to pass, but watered down, doable. Then extend and strengthen it to track all gun owners, and then to track all guns. Upon " 'realization' that it's impossible to enforce UBC without registration, ...the President will sign an Executive action to implement that step, legitimized by the concept of enforcement facilitation."

Thanks, beatledog7. Very astute and very well put.

Lost Sheep

p.s. Of course, it does not matter to the rabid anti-gunner that UBC will not keep guns out of the hands of the criminal anyway. At least, not before every law-abiding private citizen is disarmed. But that is another thread.

RetiredUSNChief
March 23, 2013, 11:13 PM
RetiredUSNChief, happily this isn't a red vs blue thing~
it's a Red White & Blue thing!

Take a look at the map of counties that have already passed Resolutions opposing the SAFE act.
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b546/thewapbucket/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20Marcs%20MacBook%20Pro/Map0012_zps67ced7a1.jpg

It seems the previously apathetic masses of NON-voters are becoming politically, vocally and actively involved over all of this, and that set of additional voters are already firmly on our side!

This is, indeed, heartening.

However, NYC is the 800 pound gorilla of NY state. 43% of the state's population resides in NYC. That's not only a huge concentration of people, NYC is a HUGE concentration of wealth and, therefore, power.

NYC has a 61 BILLION dollar a year budget, the largest municipal budget in the country. 52% of all government raised revenue in the state is raised by NYC. And nearly every aspect of NYC's government is Democratically controlled.

Both Senators are Democrats. 21 out of 27 Representatives in the House are Democrats.

59% of the state population are Democrats, 33% Republican, the rest a smattering of other affiliations. The state legislature has a 65-seat Democrat supermajority and has been totally dominated by Democrats for all but 5 years since 1959. That's 49 years out of the last 54 being dominated by the Democrats.

The political and economic structure of NY state and NYC are set up for Democrat domination.


I say all this not to discourage or disagree, but to point out that, despite outstanding response by various other municipalities in the state, the outcome (stomp-down on gun control) is by no means certain nor is it certain to be a lasting change if it does occur.

I have high hopes, especially if the federal courts get involved and support the conservative movements. But even the it will be a continual battle against forces seeking to change the laws in many various ways...and, like recent movements by conservative municipalities who have said they won't enforce restrictive gun control laws, the Liberal forces may also choose what they will and will not support via many measures.

Fight the good fight. But don't be deceived into thinking the outcome is certain or easy, or that it will be lasting without due vigilance.

:)

jason41987
March 24, 2013, 05:22 PM
the people in the UK didnt really push back, the people in australia didnt and their gun culture was similar... we were wiser than that and i think they underestimated the intelligence of the american people.. the people wanting to ban guns look down on us as subjects, they feel a superiority to us and they were simply too damn arrogant to believe we'd tell them to get lost... also speaking to some people from australia, i found many of them regret not pushing back as hard as we did, they say they gave up too much and wish they fought it

guyfromohio
March 24, 2013, 05:29 PM
Screaming lib on fox today stated that AWB would have occurred if only the public had contacted their legislators. I'm thinking they did.

Fremmer
March 24, 2013, 09:07 PM
They didn't anticipate a lot of things. They didn't expect record high sales of firearms to a record high number of buyers to occur. Or the incredibly high number of people who like guns and shooting. And who vote. ;)

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