Gun laws with a poison pill -- your thoughts?


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Squeaky Wheel
March 21, 2013, 02:47 PM
First, let me say that I'm not advocating the idea presented here, but rather just throwing it out for the sake of discussion/debate.

With all the talk about 'common sense' gun laws to 'promote safety' and 'think of the children', I was thinking about the idea of 'public safety' in the much broader context. If the anti-gunners are truly interested in safety, why don't we take a more comprehensive view -- and use data. For starters, if they're all genuinely interested in public safety, how about more regulations on alcohol? I don't have the stats handy, but I suspect that more innocent people (including children) are killed by drunk drivers than by guns.

Along these lines, we often hear: "no one *needs* to have a such-and-so type of weapon", therefore we should outlaw them. With that line of thinking, how about banning alcohol production and sale above a certain limit (say beyond 80 proof)? After all, who needs something as strong as Everclear or Wild Turkey 101 proof? Additionally, why not have NICS checks for all alcohol purchases and prohibit all criminals (or just violent criminals, or DWI convictions) from any alcohol purchase at all?

The whole idea here would be to see just how genuine their motives are (or aren't). Wonder how Feinstein would feel about 'turn them all in' approach that included wine from Napa and Sonoma.

Of course there is some percentage of the population who doesn't drink any alcohol and may say 'fine by me', but overall I wonder if a wider swath of our citizens would be more sympathetic to individual rights when they start hitting closer to the ones that they might cherish.

Your thoughts?

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Charger442
March 21, 2013, 02:55 PM
ill take it one step further for you....


no vehicle should be allowed to go over 80 MPH. why do you need a car that goes over 80? therefore, manufactures should limit and restrict how fast cars and motorcycles go when they are made.

Highcaliber
March 21, 2013, 03:14 PM
And what about swimming pools? 60 children under the age of 14 die every month from drowning !! Nobody NEEDS a swimming pool. So "...if we could even save one life..."

Unintentional Drowning: Get the Facts
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Godsgunman
March 21, 2013, 03:17 PM
Nice thoughts, but there truly is no ounce of care for citizens well being in these people that come up with these bills. It's about 1 thing, CONTROL. Ok, maybe 2 CONTROL and POWER. Anyone with a rational mind can see that things like drugs, alcohol, hate, racism, ect are the "cause" of tragic/violent actions. Guns do not fall into the "cause" category. They along with many other household items fall into the "effect" category. To try to stop something bad from happening you must stop the "cause" not the "effect". In this case they go after the guns because they understand that without a powerful effect (armed citizens) that their subjects can't push back no matter how big the cause. The cause and effect of an unarmed populace is no threat to an overbearing tyrranical government.

Tom from WNY
March 21, 2013, 06:03 PM
OP; last week, one of our esteemed university professors at SUNY Buffalo proposed the same thing (he may have been steamed over the SAFE Act). It does have merit to have extreme restrictions (Not Prohibition, mind you. That was tried once before. Did not work very well.) on alcohol to the point where drunk driving becomes quite difficult.

After all, it's for the children. Propose it to your local politicritter and see how it flies. Especially if you are in a State where firearms legislation is becoming stupid ignorant.

lpsharp88
March 21, 2013, 06:23 PM
I love it when the pro-gun crowd turns the anti-gun crowd's logic against them. For example, when the Bill of Rights were written only muskets existed. Fine, only land owning white men can vote, slavery is still in existence, 1A only does not apply to radio, tv, internet....

akv3g4n
March 21, 2013, 07:33 PM
Interesting concept but I'm in no way in favor of sacrificing more of my freedoms to try to make a point about the RKBA. Let's fight for them all.

RetiredUSNChief
March 21, 2013, 07:38 PM
I think that if it saves even one life at the expense of hundreds of others, and totally sacrifices our freedoms in the process, then it's a total bargain.

:rolleyes:

Let's build a 310 million capacity prison with solitary confinement for everybody.

cambeul41
March 21, 2013, 08:16 PM
:evil:Let's build a 310 million capacity prison with solitary confinement for everybody.

With Chinese and/or Mexican guards?

RetiredUSNChief
March 21, 2013, 08:21 PM
:evil:

With Chinese and/or Mexican guards?

With elected officials as guards, since they're so adept at depriving us of our rights already.

:evil:

r1derbike
March 21, 2013, 08:27 PM
With elected officials as guards, since they're so adept at depriving us of our rights already.

:evil:That won't work. They are even more corrupt at taking money for favors than some prison guards.

hunttheevil
March 21, 2013, 08:28 PM
With elected officials as guards, since they're so adept at depriving us of our rights already.


And that is why they want to take the guns! You can't fight tyranny with a beer bottle or swimming pool, but them pesky guns keep getting in the way! :evil:

toiville2feathers
March 21, 2013, 08:34 PM
Here is a stat, More people die at the hands of doctors and hospitals due to malpractice than by fire arms. Almost 10 times as many.

NY'er
March 21, 2013, 09:34 PM
Well let's take this one further~ we should make it mandatory that everyone has to have a mental health screening before they are permitted to vote. After all, no sane person would vote for a candidate that was hell-bent on taking away their God-given rights and freedoms, would they? And any person who is so irrational and mentally deficient that they would support such self-immolation and subordination and submit everyone else to the status of being subjects rather than citizens clearly can be considered a threat to the rest of society, so those dangerous persons should be banned from having a vote~

It could be argued that we neeeed to do this to protect our children. After all a freedom lost can never be recovered~ so if this can save just one right...

JRH6856
March 21, 2013, 09:45 PM
1A only does not apply to radio, tv, internet....

But it doesn't. That's why we have the FCC.

MachIVshooter
March 21, 2013, 09:54 PM
Problem is, the progressives would love to restrict/ban all of these things.

beatledog7
March 21, 2013, 10:11 PM
People will die because they can't get care under Obamacare. If it saves one life.... repeal Obamacare!

Texan Scott
March 21, 2013, 10:21 PM
I'll go a step further... nobody NEEDS more than 16 oz of soda. Propose that, and SURELY the progressives would see how silly it all is... oh, wait.

Your breath might be as wasted on them as logic is lost.

MedWheeler
March 21, 2013, 10:23 PM
The OP's idea (which, in his defense, he says he does not advocate) assumes the following is true...

If the anti-gunners are truly interested in safety,

Now, the real truth:

Gun control does not have anything to do with "public safety" or "the sake of the children". It has nothing to do with reducing crime. It's not even about guns.

They know it, and most of us do as well.

Gun control is about the fear the government holds of the power of the people. Every law passed along the way has been a step toward the reduction-in-force (RIF) of the general public, and likely toward the total disarmament of the populace as a whole. None has had any affect that has resulted in a reduction in violent crime, improved safety "for the children", or an improvement in public safety as a whole.

Gun control is about control, about power. The citizenry holds it; the government wants it.

VA27
March 21, 2013, 10:29 PM
...Everclear 101 proof...

Wait just a doggone minute there! I use it in my Trangia! (It does double duty, warming from the outside and the inside):D

hogshead
March 21, 2013, 10:37 PM
You guys must be in California or New York cause around here Everclear is 190 proof and we make PJ with it.

Averageman
March 21, 2013, 10:48 PM
Prohibition, yes...now there is an idea who's time has come!
You can make a list a mile long, but it doesn't work and it never has; on anything we prohibit.
It does have a fantastic history of spreading organized crime, violence and graft.

TexasBill
March 21, 2013, 11:28 PM
Present Feinstein, et. al. with a choice:

A: We pass your legislation, but with an amendment. If, after the legislation is signed into law, there is another school shooting or another whacko gets loose in a workplace, restaurant, mall, etc., the laws are deemed to have been ineffective, are automatically repealed and may not be presented in subsequent sessions of Congress. Any persons prosecuted under these laws are automatically pardoned with full restoration of their civil rights.

B. If they can't accept those conditions, they acknowledge that their proposed laws will not produce the desired effect, making them unnecessary and they agree to withdraw their proposed legislation in order to free up Congress' valuable time to work on more important legislation.

As to the "muskets" argument: If the Second Amendment referred only to the firearms available at the time the Bill of Rights was composed, then freedom of the press must refer only to Gutenburg-style screw-type presses that could print one side of one sheet per operation and were totally human-powered. By the same token, freedom of speech must refer only to human speech not amplified or broadcast by means other than those available in the late 18th Century. I think that pretty much limits free speech to cone-type megaphones or yelling.

NY'er
March 22, 2013, 12:07 AM
TexasBill, I like that idea! The only thing is, as we've now seen- that after the next shooting they would completely agree it didn't work.... which to them would mean it wasn't restrictive enough and try for ever more restrictions!

-v-
March 22, 2013, 01:08 AM
Along these lines, we often hear: "no one *needs* to have a such-and-so type of weapon", therefore we should outlaw them. With that line of thinking, how about banning alcohol production and sale above a certain limit (say beyond 80 proof)? After all, who needs something as strong as Everclear or Wild Turkey 101 proof? Additionally, why not have NICS checks for all alcohol purchases and prohibit all criminals (or just violent criminals, or DWI convictions) from any alcohol purchase at all?I know this was in jest, but is it bad that I look at that and go "you know, that's not a bad idea. - NICS check to buy liquor." Having seen first hand multiple times the bad effects of ethanol and operating a motor vehicle on the driver and innocent by-standards, I think its understandable where I am coming from. Not saying we should, but it does have a certain resonance to me...

rgwalt
March 22, 2013, 01:23 AM
Why not just equip all cars with a breathalyzer interlock?

JRH6856
March 22, 2013, 01:49 AM
I know this was in jest, but is it bad that I look at that and go "you know, that's not a bad idea. - NICS check to buy liquor." Having seen first hand multiple times the bad effects of ethanol and operating a motor vehicle on the driver and innocent by-standards, I think its understandable where I am coming from. Not saying we should, but it does have a certain resonance to me...

And that is the seductive danger of collectivist progressive thinking--the desire to protect others from themselves. But we can't assume that we know what is best for others without allowing others to assume they know what is best for us. Well, we can, but then we would be elitists which is a different seduction.

Squeaky Wheel
March 22, 2013, 09:48 AM
Why not just equip all cars with a breathalyzer interlock?
Because someone could get drunk and harm the children in other ways (without using a vehicle).

VVelox
March 22, 2013, 05:24 PM
I personally hate this idea as you are hoping they are not so stupid as to go with what you said. This is by no means something I would feel safe betting on.

RetiredUSNChief
March 22, 2013, 07:43 PM
Well let's take this one further~ we should make it mandatory that everyone has to have a mental health screening before they are permitted to vote. After all, no sane person would vote for a candidate that was hell-bent on taking away their God-given rights and freedoms, would they? And any person who is so irrational and mentally deficient that they would support such self-immolation and subordination and submit everyone else to the status of being subjects rather than citizens clearly can be considered a threat to the rest of society, so those dangerous persons should be banned from having a vote~

It could be argued that we neeeed to do this to protect our children. After all a freedom lost can never be recovered~ so if this can save just one right...


Of course, government standards will determine what constitutes a satisfactory mental health screening...

:scrutiny:

DSling
March 22, 2013, 08:05 PM
ill take it one step further for you....


no vehicle should be allowed to go over 80 MPH. why do you need a car that goes over 80? therefore, manufactures should limit and restrict how fast cars and motorcycles go when they are made.

There is a limiter in motorcycles (at least in sport bikes). Mine wouldn't let me go over 186 mph (I was on a speed track not street). I guess we could say that the manufacture did limit it.

AlexanderA
March 22, 2013, 08:42 PM
"Poison pills" presuppose that, due to their presence, the underlying bills won't pass. What we need are pro-gun bills that will actually pass.

JRH6856
March 22, 2013, 09:21 PM
"Poison pills" presuppose that, due to their presence, the underlying bills won't pass. What we need are pro-gun bills that will actually pass.

Unfortunately, for many of our esteemed representatives, the "pro-gun" part would be the poison pill... :scrutiny:

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