Milsurp competition or modernize very accurate Mosin?


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josiewales
March 22, 2013, 04:56 PM
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562779_227999074004675_762509573_n.jpg
Since I have a Mosin Nagant that will shoot groups like that at 85 yards, should I get into milsurp competitions, or should I get it modernized? Opinions? I am kinda loath to modify an old battle rifle like that, but on the other hand it would be really neat to see what it could do with a better trigger, Muzzlebrake, synthetic stock etc. What do you think?

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Mayvik
March 22, 2013, 05:01 PM
Is your MN in any way collectible? If not, they made a bazillion of them so you're not really doing the collecting community a disservice by "bubba'ing" it up.

Hard to say really without knowing what you're shooting..rested, surplus/factory/handloaded ammo, etc. 85 yard shots are not really telling on their own. You should probably see how it (and you) shoots at say 300 yards if you're thinking about competition. You're probably in the 1.5-2MOA range there and if that's your rest group using your own tuned ammo, you may find you're getting trounced by other make/model firearms.

josiewales
March 22, 2013, 05:04 PM
Is your MN in any way collectible? If not, they made a bazillion of them so you're not really doing the collecting community a disservice by "bubba'ing" it up.

Hard to say really without knowing what you're shooting..rested, surplus/factory/handloaded ammo, etc. 85 yard shots are not really telling on their own. You should probably see how it (and you) shoots at say 300 yards if you're thinking about competition. You're probably in the 1.5-2MOA range there and if that's your rest group using your own tuned ammo, you may find you're getting trounced by other make/model firearms.

It was rested using cheap milsurp ammo. I do not have access to a 300 yard range, sadly. It is a Soviet hex receiver made in 1930. I paid $130 for it 5 months ago.

tuj
March 22, 2013, 06:18 PM
that is a nice group, but you really need to shoot a lot more groups to know how it shoots, unless that one is representative of the rifle on average.

I will usually shoot five-to-ten five-shot groups and take the average to determine how a particular rifle shoots.

ball3006
March 22, 2013, 10:47 PM
How do you plan on moderizing a rifle that was designed 123 years ago and the basics have not changed any. If it shoots accurately, leave it along and enjoy it for what it is....chris3

kyhunter
March 23, 2013, 12:46 AM
If you handload buy some fairly heavy bullets and experiment within manufactured data. Itd be interesting to see what a mosin with a bore like that would shoot out to 3 or 400 yards.

Arbo
March 23, 2013, 12:50 AM
I'm all for 'updating' these rifles, as was said, if it's not a specific one of value, they made loads of them.

I have two, my better shooting one just got an ATI stock and bipod. Will be moving the scope from the other one to it and tweaking it in.

Ash
March 23, 2013, 08:37 AM
"Updating" a Mosin is like adding a spoiler to a Jeep. I have not seen a single after-market "update" that is anything more than cosmetic except perhaps for an aperture on the rear sight - "updates" don't improve performance. I have owned Finns, Balkans, a US-issue M1916, Czechs, and numerous Soviet & Russian Mosins - more than 70 in all. The best possible "updates" would be to install a Finnish trigger if yours has too much creep. Otherwise, the sights are fine - no worse than a Mauser - and you have good performance. Anything you do would more likely reduce its effectiveness.

Arbo
March 23, 2013, 09:47 AM
Except you can make it lighter and thus easier to handle... but some people just want everything 'original'...

ball3006
March 23, 2013, 10:55 AM
If a Mosin Nagant it "too heavy".......you better look into joining a gym.....chris3

Phaethon
March 23, 2013, 11:14 AM
I find the straight stocks really uncomfortable when shooting, honestly, and would definitely recommend a synthetic. I understand that a synthetic stock + trigger + muzzle break will probably cost more than the rifle though, so it's really just a matter of whether you want it and the cost is worth it to you.

It's unlikely that you're going to notice an astronomical improvement in accuracy, but you'd sure have a gun more enjoyable to shoot. Just keep the old stock and trigger set in case you ever feel guilty.

Edarnold
March 23, 2013, 03:46 PM
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562779_227999074004675_762509573_n.jpg
Since I have a Mosin Nagant that will shoot groups like that at 85 yards, should I get into milsurp competitions, or should I get it modernized? Opinions? I am kinda loath to modify an old battle rifle like that, but on the other hand it would be really neat to see what it could do with a better trigger, Muzzlebrake, synthetic stock etc. What do you think?

If you get into battle rifle competition, the deciding factor is not whether your rifle shoots minute of angle, but whether you can shoot minute of ten ring. If you are talking the 200yd matches based on the NRA course, the winners are going to be the best shooters, not the guys with guns that do teeny-tiny groups off of sandbags. My K-31 might shoot better groups than the guy with the old M-N, but if he's a better marksman he's going to win. That is exactly why these matches are fun, you don't have to sink a boatload of money into equipment in order to successfully compete. I'd say keep your old warrior original, and if you absolutely have to have one that's fixed up, check the gun stores and shows for somebody elses's project that they got bored with: you'll probably get it for half of what he put into it!

IMHO

Arbo
March 23, 2013, 04:26 PM
If a Mosin Nagant it "too heavy".......you better look into joining a gym.....chris3
Or like me, you don't put it on sandbags, and just stand shooting it....

josiewales
March 23, 2013, 07:39 PM
I have not seen a single after-market "update" that is anything more than cosmetic except perhaps for an aperture on the rear sight

My first upgrade would be a Timney trigger. My trigger is very creepy and has a pull weight of about 8 pounds. I would also install to front and rear sights or possibly a scope.

josiewales
March 23, 2013, 07:42 PM
I find the straight stocks really uncomfortable when shooting, honestly, and would definitely recommend a synthetic. I understand that a synthetic stock + trigger + muzzle break will probably cost more than the rifle though, so it's really just a matter of whether you want it and the cost is worth it to you.

I too do not like the straight stock when shooting prone. I also can get a stock, trigger, muzzle brake( a good one and not clamp on) for less than a Savage Axis would cost, and that includes what I paid for the rifle originally. It would not make the gun more accurate, it would make shooting the gun more accurately easier.

Tempest 455
March 23, 2013, 07:50 PM
I would shoot it at longer distances and see what kind of groups you get with more rounds. I have a very accurate Mosin (often is sub MOA at 100yards) that I modified and best it's shot is 1.2 MOA out to 400 yards. That being said, at 600 yards that would not be anywhere near what I think you would need to be competitive. Still would be fun, however.

meanmrmustard
March 23, 2013, 11:56 PM
Mosin nagant is a piece of history. You can sporterize and desovietize all you want, but it will still be an ancient firearm shooting no better than a modern rifle $$$ cheaper. If you like projects, fine, but if its practical accuracy or meat you are after, you can do a lot better than a Mosin.
They hold their own.

Ash
March 24, 2013, 06:47 AM
A Mosin will do the job just fine. @ $100, a Timney trigger is pretty expensive. That plus $60 for a pistol-grip stock on a $130 rifle puts you in the price of a good Finnish M39, which will shoot well, has superb iron sights, a pistol-grip stock, and an excellent trigger - and will retain its value.

Do what you want to do and if you want to make your Mosin more enjoyable to shoot, well, okay. I've played with Mosins for decades and have a tremendous amount of respect for the action. Great things can be done with a Mosin, particularly with a Finn.

I wouldn't mount glass - if you want one with glass get a real-deal sniper - they aren't that expensive.

josiewales
March 24, 2013, 08:01 AM
A Mosin will do the job just fine. @ $100, a Timney trigger is pretty expensive. That plus $60 for a pistol-grip stock on a $130 rifle puts you in the price of a good Finnish M39, which will shoot well, has superb iron sights, a pistol-grip stock, and an excellent trigger - and will retain its value.

Do what you want to do and if you want to make your Mosin more enjoyable to shoot, well, okay. I've played with Mosins for decades and have a tremendous amount of respect for the action. Great things can be done with a Mosin, particularly with a Finn.

I wouldn't mount glass - if you want one with glass get a real-deal sniper - they aren't that expensive.
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Thanks, I'll remember that. I have never shot a Finn m39 do you have pics you could put on here?

meanmrmustard
March 24, 2013, 08:34 AM
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Thanks, I'll remember that. I have never shot a Finn m39 do you have pics you could put on here?
I've no pics, but I agree with Ash.

My Finnish M28, Sako manufactured with Swiss barrel, is a target dynamo.

All for the low low price of a beater SKS.

ol' scratch
March 24, 2013, 10:25 AM
I would personally say leave it alone. Not because it is of great value, but because you just throw a bunch of money at something that while it does have a large following will never shoot as well as a modern bolt action. Don't get me wrong. I really like my Mosin PU. It is accurate and I am really looking forward to reloading for it. I just think it is throwing good money down the drain when you could purchase something modern you don't have to mess with (turn the bolt down, have it drilled and tapped, put another stock on, get rings and mount a scope, get a trigger for). After you are done, you will have something that if you want to sell in the future you will never recoup your cost and will never out shoot a modern bolt action.

These are lessons it took me a while to learn, by the way. I used to own an SKS that I threw a bunch of money at to try and make it into something it wasn't. In the end, I had an SKS that I spent loads of money on and didn't perform. It was an expensive lesson.

ol' scratch
March 24, 2013, 10:36 AM
I would go with what Ash and Mustard have said. Let me add that they did just get a bunch of M1891/30 PU sniper rifles in. These are the real deal from WWII, but are rearsenaled. I picked one up from AIM about a month ago. It was $579 and matches including the scope, mount, bolt, etc. They are out right now, but you can check back. There have been rumors they might get some more in, or you could search around and get one somewhere else. UPDATE. Classic has them. http://www.classicfirearms.com/

meanmrmustard
March 24, 2013, 11:43 AM
They absolutely do. My point is, they are vintage firearms, best left alone except the genuine parts.
Agreed.

However, I don't think the deer I've taken with my bone stock Mosins would argue against it being sufficient for game getting. This is where i found objectable fault in the earlier statement. Light guns with optics, sling, and loaded can be quite pleasant to carry, but thump a bit at the bench come zeroing time. I'm not a feather weight champion, and steadying a sub 7lb gun for me is quite difficult under nominal hunting conditions. Here, is where a Mosin shines.

The 9 pound Mosin, with iron sights, is a joy in my tree stand and the cartridge is, in its 203 gr soft point rendition, quite potent. I haven't sporterized any of them, nor do they need it. I'll add, I shoot irons well and am practiced with them. I'd never scope a Mosin.

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