Kimber makes .380's now


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smalls
March 22, 2013, 08:14 PM
Earlier today I saw Kimber's Facebook post of their new "Micro" series of 1911's. basically the same as Colt's Mustang and Sig's 238.

My question is (and I've never compared a Sig 238 next to their new 938), is there still a market for these small "1911's" in .380? I've noticed a lot if small 9's come out lately, and I'm wondering if the pocket .380 fad is coming to a halt in favor if the pocket 9's.

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Walkalong
March 22, 2013, 09:03 PM
Interesting.

ambidextrous1
March 22, 2013, 09:07 PM
I think the .380 craze will continue, with or without the availability of small 9mm pistols.

I cn't explain it; I wish I could, because I am afflicted by that craze. :uhoh:

TennJed
March 22, 2013, 09:12 PM
Do you know the deminsions and how it compares to the Sig size wise?

smalls
March 22, 2013, 09:34 PM
Do you know the deminsions and how it compares to the Sig size wise?


I don't. I've only seen pictures. Let me see if I can find the link.

smalls
March 22, 2013, 09:37 PM
https://www.wf-site.com/fbmobile/19875/pages/a2821246a8fcf6fa?ref=web_canvas#_=_

Not sure if its gonna work. Sorry, I'm on my iPhone. But if it doesn't, and you have Facebook, you can check their page. Or maybe it's on their website.

guyfromohio
March 22, 2013, 09:38 PM
I wouldn't consider .380 a "craze". There are some fine guns in that caliber.... Beretta 84/85, PPK, sig 232, mustangs, 238.... None of which are fad guns as they demand more than most 9mms on the market. Now if Kimber would make one that actually shot every time the trigger was pulled, I would add it to the collection. Never in a million years would I buy a new Kimber model anything until it has been in the market for a year or so.

smalls
March 22, 2013, 09:39 PM
Interesting

I can't help but think they've got a 9mm model, and their going to release it after cashing in in these .380's.

C0untZer0
March 22, 2013, 09:39 PM
Some people either can't shoot a pocket 9 well - or they'd just rather not.

I had a Colt Mustang, I wish I still had it, My ex wife was able to shoot it, and work the manual of arms on it. She couldn't work a Browning High-Power or my HK P7M8.

I made the decision that for me, a pocket nine made more sense than a pocket 380 Auto.

I don't find the R9 that difficult to shoot.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=181765&stc=1&d=1363999165

smalls
March 22, 2013, 09:51 PM
Some people either can't shoot a pocket 9 well - or they'd just rather not.

In my experience with these "mouse guns" is that with guns of similar size, the 9mm was less "snappy", and the recoil was more manageable. But my experience is kind of limited in that department.

Kruzr
March 22, 2013, 09:54 PM
From 2012 SHOT:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8386140032_a0fab90360_c.jpg

MedWheeler
March 23, 2013, 12:56 AM
Smalls writes:

In my experience with these "mouse guns" is that with guns of similar size, the 9mm was less "snappy", and the recoil was more manageable. But my experience is kind of limited in that department.

My Bersa Thunder 380, a blowback-operated pistol, is far more pleasant to shoot than is my Kel-Tec PF9, a recoil-operated one. But, the grip on the Bersa is thicker and more comfortable to hold (though still kind of small for my long-ish fingers), and that might be a big part of it.
The Kel-Tec P11, which has a thicker grip than the PF9 does, might be closer, to me at least, to the Thunder 380 in comfort-of-shooting, but I have not tried that comparison.

smalls
March 23, 2013, 01:10 AM
I imagine recoil would be pretty tame in a 1911 type frame, too. I have not shot a Mustang or 238, so I wouldn't know. My experience with .380's has been pretty minimal, actually. But I've yet to find one I can tolerate shooting more than a few mags through, and I wouldn't consider myself recoil sensitive.

bannockburn
March 23, 2013, 06:52 AM
Very interesting indeed. I have both a Colt Mustang and a SIG P-238. Wouldn't mind adding a Kimber to the fold.

beatledog7
March 23, 2013, 10:39 AM
The soaring popularity of the pocket gun has reminded naysayers that the .380 is a viable round, not just in the SD sense but in the marketing sense. The "nothing smaller than 9mm Luger" crowd is as vocal as ever, but sales figures indicate that many new gun buyers aren't listening to them.

I've shot a few pint-sized .380s, and while not exactly comfortable to shoot--and not my range toy of choice--they are entirely manageable. In concert with recent developments in .380 ammo, that makes them an excellent choice for CCW, especially for those with small hands. And it follows that among all those who carry a .380, some would want to practice or plink with the same round so they don't have to deal with two cartridges.

I expect we'll see more mid- to full-sized .380s hit the market soon. I also think it won't be long before 9x19 to .380 conversion barrels will start hitting the market. There will be those who say I'm wrong, of course.

kokapelli
March 23, 2013, 10:43 AM
The 380 round is just a better fit in these micro sized pistols. Yes there are 9mm micros that work, but not as well as the same basic pistol in 380.

maxsnafu
March 24, 2013, 09:39 AM
I hope it's more reliable than the Kimber Solo.

Clark
March 24, 2013, 03:12 PM
Oi, have I been testing 380s...

Depending on the 380 pistol, custom handloads can increase the power output.

With pistol design variations in chamber wall thickness, slide mass, recoil spring force, and chamber support, the maximum usable load varies from half way between SAAMI 380 and SAAMI 9x19mm, all the way to exceeding SAAMI 357 mag, while holding barrel length constant in the comparison.

kBob
March 24, 2013, 03:48 PM
My favorite .380 would be called mid-sized today. The Star S model just plain rocked. Very slim and 8 + 1 At th time the only 9 x19 that came close to that small was the Star BK series and it was noticably larger. For shooting I liked it better than the Walther PP and PPk, Astra constable, the smaller FI Imports version of the chopped Star S model, Bersa, and Berettas.

For looks though I realy like a Beretta 1934 and all I have shot shoot pretty well.

The regular S model and Super S guns are larger than the Kimber, but they do feel good in the hand to me. It concealed and carried in a cheap suede IWB holster or a Bianchi shoulder rig quite well even if it is no pocket carry gun.

Back in the 70's I never felt unarmed with a .380 loaded with the old Super Vel 88 grain JHP or even a buddy's handloads with a Speer 100 grain JHP. COuld not stand the S&W brand 90 grain JSP though, did well on expansion in wet pack but lack accuracy and reliability of action in everyhing I tried it in. Today there are more and better loads and to be honest I think the current crop of truncated cone FMJ ammo would not be bad for and EDC/ SD gun.

But that's just me....

-kBob

Motownfire
March 26, 2013, 03:08 PM
That's a sweet little Kimber, I'd love to check one out in person.

All of my friends that say "That little 380 isn't enough round for personal protection" have always answered NO when asked if I could shoot them with it.....

Dentite
March 27, 2013, 01:33 AM
All of my friends that say "That little 380 isn't enough round for personal protection" have always answered NO when asked if I could shoot them with it.....

Motwonfire:

Nothing personal against you, but I really wish we could get rid of this phrase when comparing cartridges for self-defense.

Would your friends allow you to shoot them with a .22LR? Stab them with a knife? A pencil?

Rifle/Shotgun>.45>9mm>.380>.32>.22LR>small pocketknife>cell phone, etc.

But it's not practical to carry a rifle around so we carry handguns. For some a full sized .45 auto is too cumbersome so they carry something smaller.

We all have to weigh the pros and cons of what we carry.

Today I am wearing shorts and a t-shirt with my .380 auto LCP in a pocket holster.

Would a .45 be better defense? Of course, but it's cumbersome enough I'd probably go without more than with so IMO a .380 6+1 is better than going without.

Sorry for the rant...I really do try to play nice with others.

pat701
March 27, 2013, 12:31 PM
Another Kimber problem child:banghead:

huntsman
March 27, 2013, 02:49 PM
I'm a .380acp fan and I make no apologies for it, it's the only cartridge I'd be willing to buy new guns in, so yeah I'd like to see how this new Kimber stands up to scrutiny and use.

Cokeman
March 28, 2013, 02:08 AM
These have actually been out for a couple of years now.

Kimber Micro Carry (http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/micro-carry)

smalls
March 28, 2013, 02:06 PM
Maybe they released info on them before, but I've never seen these before, with the exception of SHOT show pictures.

And everywhere that has them for ore order states it ships in 6-12 months.

WardenWolf
March 28, 2013, 02:31 PM
I wonder why no one has recreated the Colt 1903 or 1908. These guns would make far more sense than to modify a 1911.

dsk
March 28, 2013, 09:53 PM
The Colt Model M (1903/1908) pistols were very expensive to manufacture (which is why Colt discontinued them after WW2), and today wouldn't be considered drop-safe unless they added an internal firing pin block. They were fabulous weapons in their day but are somewhat dated now.

Some folks may like the pocket nines, but in my experience they're a bit too hot to easily handle. The blowback .380's are just as bad, in fact I sold a Bersa Thunder .380 after owning it for only a few months simply because it hurt my hand when I shot it. And yet I just bought a Kahr P380, and the recoil to me feels like I'm shooting a Glock 19. A bit snappy, but perfectly manageable. It's important to be able to easily control the weapon in rapid fire, and if for example you can shoot a .32 better than a .380 then go with the smaller caliber. Neither one is a manstopper, but they're even less so if you can't hit the center X fast and easily.

kokapelli
March 28, 2013, 10:05 PM
The Colt Model M (1903/1908) pistols were very expensive to manufacture (which is why Colt discontinued them after WW2), and today wouldn't be considered drop-safe unless they added an internal firing pin block. They were fabulous weapons in their day but are somewhat dated now.

Some folks may like the pocket nines, but in my experience they're a bit too hot to easily handle. The blowback .380's are just as bad, in fact I sold a Bersa Thunder .380 after owning it for only a few months simply because it hurt my hand when I shot it. And yet I just bought a Kahr P380, and the recoil to me feels like I'm shooting a Glock 19. A bit snappy, but perfectly manageable. It's important to be able to easily control the weapon in rapid fire, and if for example you can shoot a .32 better than a .380 then go with the smaller caliber. Neither one is a manstopper, but they're even less so if you can't hit the center X fast and easily.
I guess it's perception, but the Bersa is really a soft shooter for me.

dsk
March 29, 2013, 12:19 AM
For me it wasn't the recoil itself, but the fact that the backstrap pummeled the hypothenar muscles (heel) of my hand which hurt like hell after just a few rounds. It simply proves that there's no one gun for everybody.

orionengnr
March 29, 2013, 12:46 AM
My LGS just showed me that Micro .380 yesterday. She knows I am a Kimber owner and enthusiast. It is in the new catalog, and is on their website now. But I am in that catalog and on that website pretty regularly, and that is the first I've seen of it.

I just sold my LCP yesterday and put a Kahr CW380 on order, so she made sure to show me the Micro .380. :)

That Micro .380 is a good looking pistol, but a bit more than I am ready to spend on a .380, at least for now. I was looking at a Solo, though... :)
These have actually been out for a couple of years now.
I don't believe so. Please see above.

Cokeman
March 29, 2013, 01:02 AM
The picture above is from SHOT 2012 and that's a little over a year ago. How much was that store asking?

Bill4282
March 29, 2013, 01:28 PM
We sometimes forget that the .380 was the official caliber for military and police before the 9mm or higher calipers were introduced. Seemed to be effective then and with the newer ammo designs even more so now. Never felt underarmed with my Bersa which concealed and carried easier than my Glock or 1911s. I carry my Bersa as a pocket, just in case, piece. On trips and excursions I still take my Glock 19. My Kimbers are range guns since I do not wish to donate to the PD if they choose to take as evidence.

smalls
March 29, 2013, 01:35 PM
We sometimes forget that the .380 was the official caliber for military and police before the 9mm or higher calipers were introduced.

They used to ride horses before they had tanks, too.

Bill4282
March 29, 2013, 02:08 PM
My point was that, just because there is something newer, the older ammo is still an effective round. Us old f****s find it easier to carry smaller arms. I can afford a horse but not a tank (grin).

dsk
March 29, 2013, 02:31 PM
In most other countries the 9mm is considered a very powerful handgun round and normally reserved for the military. The .32 and .380 are considered adequate for police use. Of course in most of these countries there is little threat of an opponent being armed with anything more than a knife or tire iron. We carry large calibers in this country simply because the criminals are often better armed than the good guys, and and they usually travel in packs as well.

ScottieG59
March 29, 2013, 02:34 PM
They used to ride horses before they had tanks, too.

The horse still has advantages in some areas, such as mountainous and rocky terrain.

Anyway, I have a few 380 ACP pistols. They still have a place and improvements in ammo combined with the locking breach pistols have helped.

Before I owned my Kahr PM9, I might have carried one of the 380s, but now, there is no real advantage. If recoil is a problem, I can carry standard pressure 9mm ammo.

I plan to keep my 380 ACP pistols and they still make good backup guns. They will just not be the primary weapon.

There is clearly a market for the little 380 and everyone seems to have to sell them to be relevant. Also, in some countries, military rounds, such as the 9mm, are not legal.

Bill4282
March 29, 2013, 03:03 PM
Now with the .45, Springfield needs to make a XDs in 50 caliber like the desert eagle. Would be a hoot to see that big bore on a micro pistol. Bet be fun to shoot!

smalls
March 30, 2013, 02:01 AM
I don't disagree that there's still a market for the micro .380's, but it seems like the trend is shifting towards the pocket 9's as of lately.

dsk
March 30, 2013, 02:32 AM
When I first started shopping for a micro .380 I took a look at the small pocket nines as well. What you need to understand is that for some us every ounce or fraction of an inch makes a difference. If you're 6' 2" and 240lbs a small 9mm will disappear into your front pocket very easily. But when I tried them (5' 6", 165) they made me look like I was coming on to whoever I was looking at. And no, simply covering a gun doesn't make it "concealed" if there's a telltale bulge that alerts co-workers and attentive individuals that you have something rather large in your pocket. If you really need it to completely disappear it must be as small, light, and flat as possible. For some of us that means a micro .380.

smalls
March 30, 2013, 03:04 AM
That makes sense.

Cokeman
March 30, 2013, 03:06 AM
They used to ride horses before they had tanks, too.

Most bad guys that we might encounter won't be driving tanks.

smalls
March 30, 2013, 05:54 PM
You missed the point entirely...

Cokeman
March 30, 2013, 06:35 PM
I don't think I did. ;)

BigJakeJ1s
March 30, 2013, 11:57 PM
I really like the micro size, 1911 style 380's (mustang, micro carry & p238), and 9's (p938).

Other than significantly larger/heavier versions like the SA EMP, are there any other similarly sized/operated pistols out there? This size pistol does not provide enough grip for me to accurately handle a DA-length trigger pull.

Andy

dsk
March 31, 2013, 01:12 AM
Guys with really big hands are probably the ones most critical of micro .380s. Of course those same guys are probably big enough to conceal something larger anyway. The alleged solution for guys who can't get a good grip on small autos is the extended magazine, which adds capacity at the same time as offering a longer grip. But then you're almost up to the length of a compact 9mm or .45, which defeats the purpose of a micro auto. Either these little guns work for you or they don't. I bought a Glock 26 when they first came out, and while it was nice and short (like me) it was simply too fat (also like me, unfortunately) and hard to conceal. I sold it and picked up a Kahr P9 instead, which fit the bill except for when I had to don shorts and a "wife beater" t-shirt in hot weather. Then I was stuck with a tiny little .25ACP Beretta. Now there was some serious stopping power! That's why I'm so glad that we now have the micro .380s, because as wimpy as they are in some people's eyes they're far better than what was available 20 years ago.

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