SR Mag Primers w/223


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Maj Dad
March 22, 2013, 08:25 PM
Does anyone have experience loading 55 gr (or 62) FMJ/Spire pts using SR mag primers & H335 (or other ball powders) in ARs? I picked up some CCI SR Mag primers today and thought I would use them with ball powders & see how they do. I have heard all the YOU'LL SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT, KID! arguments against them but I have used them with zero problems for years using basic, common-sense reloading technique. I am just looking for loads for these bullet weights with ball powders (I have lots of stick powders, but it's a pain in my Dillon 550 powder measure, or any progressive powder measure, for that matter). Please, I am not trying to ignite another flaming slug-fest over the lurking dangers of mag primers, just looking to load some more.
Thanks to all, even you guys who would save my life ;)
George J.

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jstein650
March 22, 2013, 08:32 PM
Sounds like you know what you're doing. Any ball powder load listed with standard primers, backed off by 1 gr, will give fine results. Work from there and I don't see a problem. I'm really not an AR guy, but from what I've read magnum primers have not been a problem in AR's.
Incidentally, my single stage Lee adjustable measure gives me better thrown charges with small extruded powders. They just seem to fill the cavity better with no side 'leakage' out of the cylinder.

Lj1941
March 22, 2013, 09:12 PM
Speer data,at least the latest I have #12 almost always lists Mag primers with any ball powder. I really don't know if they still do this in their latest data.Personally I don't see the need for them in a small case like the 223. It sounds as if you are erring on the safe side- never a bad idea.:)

Maj Dad
March 22, 2013, 09:34 PM
Thanks, gents - appreciate the time you took to reply. Lj1941, my Speer manual is about 25 years old & I haven''t looked at it, but if Speer recommends them, that's good enough for me to try them (like jstein650 said, backing off a grain or so just for the halibut). You're right, they're probably not really necessary in the 223, but if they are o.k. to use, I'll use them and see how they do.

Just checked - my Speer manual is No. 11. I thought it was sorta new... ;-)

NCsmitty
March 22, 2013, 10:18 PM
I have always advocated using magnum primers when loading the older ball powders like H335, BLC2, Win 748, Win 760/H414. They can be harder to ignite, especially in colder northern climates. I believe that they offer more consistent ignition under all conditions with those powders. Magnum primers also have .005" thicker cups over standard as a rule, the same as BR primers.
Work up your loads as normal, or drop your favorite load with standard primers by 5% and work up. You may just like them.
I use H414 with CCI magnum primers with lighter bullets in my 6.5x55 M98.

NCsmitty

climbnjump
March 22, 2013, 10:39 PM
Speer data,at least the latest I have #12 almost always lists Mag primers with any ball powder. I really don't know if they still do this in their latest data.Personally I don't see the need for them in a small case like the 223. It sounds as if you are erring on the safe side- never a bad idea

My Speer #14, which I think is the latest, also lists mag primers for H335.

Slightly off-topic... I didn't realize that the #14 has become a collector's item.

It can be had from Amazon for the low, low price of $428.98! Or only $194.34 if you don't mind "used".

TheCracker
March 22, 2013, 11:39 PM
Im pretty sure the CCI military 5.56 primers (that have the thicker cups) are magnum primers.

I would say just back down some and work up or better yet call the powder manufacturer. They will know for sure

788Ham
March 22, 2013, 11:50 PM
Maj Dad,

Thats all I use in my .223, CCI primers. I read an article some time back, said the mag primer gets the longer grained {3031} powders ignited better, all I've used since then, no problems.

RNG
March 23, 2013, 08:17 AM
MajDad - Looking through my notes I had worked up a load some time ago(2008) using 25.0 H335 w/CCI450's, Winchester 55g FMJBT. Never chrony'd them but they were accurate out of my RRA w/18" varmint. Since then I've settled in on 26.5g w/748 for 55g and standard Win SR primers.

I'm down here in Bft. Where in the LC are you located?

Regards,
Nick

steve4102
March 23, 2013, 08:44 AM
The CCI Military primers are indeed mag primers, so are Remington 7 1/2 primers.

Maj Dad
March 23, 2013, 04:23 PM
O.K., you guys have sold me - mag primers for ball powders for sure, and I will try them in stick powders & see how they do (like 45-70 & 3031 or 4198).

Nick, I'm in Sumter - if you are familiar with it, I'm over past Sumter H.S. on the west side. Love your neck of the woods - used to live on St Simons Island, GA & miss the marsh. I use 25 gr H335 w/55 gr FMJs also - I will substitute the Mag primer in a few & see how they do.
Thanks and cheers to all,
George J.

Walkalong
March 23, 2013, 10:10 PM
I used to use Federal 205 (Mag) primers with H335, IMR4895, and AA2015 in .222 Mag. Worked great. It's a near ballistic twin of .223. About 5% more case capacity IIRC.

ArchAngelCD
March 24, 2013, 02:00 AM
Like said above, CCI NATO primers are magnum strength according to Hodgdon. Many reloaders like using a magnum primer with ball powders especially in larger cases. The times dictate using what you can find but at least magnum primers with ball powders isn't counterproductive.

FROGO207
March 24, 2013, 08:45 AM
I have worked up loads with Magnum primers for most of my high volume ammo due to the last primer shortage and limited supplies. No problems with anything that was an eye opener but the standard versus magnum primers do require you work up the loads again though. You do have to be sure to work your load up again with each brand as well. I did not notice much difference in the load data with different brand magnum primers other than the Federal all were a slight bit hotter than all the others. Yes I feel it is a good idea to use MAG primers with ball propellants as a general rule anyway. YMMV

steve4102
March 24, 2013, 09:34 AM
I used to use Federal 205 (Mag) primers

It was my understanding that Fed makes Two small rifle primers. The 205 and the 205M.. neither are considered "Magnum"?

The "M" stands for "Match" not Magnum. As in Fed 215=LR Magnum and 215M=LR Magnum Match, 210=LR and 210M=LR Match.

Mr.Revolverguy
March 24, 2013, 09:48 AM
WOW what is going on with Amazon and the Speer manual? Glad I own one already.

Now back on topic utilizing h335 all I use is rifle magnum primers right out of the speer manual and I get great results.

Walkalong
April 4, 2013, 08:57 PM
I used to use Federal 205 (Mag) primers
It was my understanding that Fed makes Two small rifle primers. The 205 and the 205M.. neither are considered "Magnum"?
When I was working up loads in my .222 Mag I had Federal 200, 205, and 205M primers. It was my understanding, and perhaps I was wrong, that the 200 was a standard small rifle (And high velocity {I read as high pressure} pistol) primer, the 205 was a small rifle mag strength primer, and the 205M a mag strength Match small rifle primer. I have always remembered it that way.

Anyone know what strength the fed small rifle primers are? Do they make another small rifle primer besides these I mentioned?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182319&stc=1&d=1365123312

TexasShooter59
April 4, 2013, 09:36 PM
The CCI Military primers are indeed mag primers, so are Remington 7 1/2 primers.
^^^ What he said. I use the CCI41s in my AR loads with Win748. Bullets used are FMJ, Z-Max, and SPs. All Hornady 55 grain bullets.

steve4102
April 5, 2013, 03:17 AM
According to the "new" Federal primer box, the 200 is a Small Pistol Magnum primer.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953676362/federal-small-pistol-magnum-primers-200

The Fed 205 and 205M say Small Rifle with no indication of being a Mag primer. .
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953179134/federal-small-rifle-primers-205

Federal Large Rifle primers clearly state on the package whether they are Magnum of not.

The 210.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953519190/federal-large-rifle-primers-210

The 215 Magnum.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953586171/federal-large-rifle-magnum-primers-215

One could only assume that if the 205 was indeed a Mag primer the box/package would indicate so, similar to the Mag pistol and Mag Large rifle packaging.

Primer chart. No Fed Small Rifle Mag Primers listed.
http://www.handloads.com/misc/primers.asp

http://www.grafs.com/catalog/tech-resource/technicalResourceId/6

kingmt
April 5, 2013, 06:41 AM
I've never seen a difference. CCI says that the need for Mag primers is to get the powder burning before the bullet gets to the lande. They did a stranded primer will kick the bullet into it then the powder lights & causes a pressure spike. I asked Hodgon about this & they said they were stupid & there is no problem using stranded primers.

I guess you decide.

Walkalong
April 5, 2013, 07:28 AM
In .222 Mag the 205 worked better than the 200. Yes, they list the 200 as a pistol primer now. I just wonder at the strength of the 205 vs another makers standard small rifle and small rifle mag primer now. Hmm. Maybe we should call Federal and ask.

steve4102
April 5, 2013, 07:52 AM
http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html

Walkalong
April 5, 2013, 08:58 AM
Looks pretty puny.

Lennyjoe
April 5, 2013, 09:35 AM
I use CCI 450 primers with all of my 55 grain H335 loads for my .223 AR's

Lennyjoe
April 5, 2013, 09:38 AM
But the funny thing is, I get better results using Winchester small rifle primers instead of CCI 450's and H335 out of my 6.8 SPC AR

Walkalong
April 5, 2013, 10:51 AM
Fed 205's and Winchester WSR primers have been giving me almost identical velocities with SRB-118 which is a ball powder similar in burn rate to H335. (Touch slower). The CCI #41 gives more velocity than either one of those primers with H322, H335, SRB118, N133, & TAC in .223 with 55 Gr bullets.

Looks like the 205 should be considered a standard strength primer. It works well with H335 in .223 or .222 Mag cases though.

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