best 9 mm self defense and shooting ammo?


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rod5591
March 22, 2013, 11:05 PM
I am getting a Glock 17 and bought 500 rounds of Speer 9mm -115-Grain-P-Gold-Dot-Hollow-Point.

Anyone have any experience with that ammo, for home defense? is 115 grain too light do you think?

Please give my your views since this is my first foray into 9 mm territory.

Thanks

by the way, do ammo prices seem pretty crazy? I got this self defense HP for .83 per round, and I couldn't find any FMJ target ammo for less than $1 per round. That makes no senses to me!

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smalls
March 22, 2013, 11:40 PM
You're gonna get a million different answers to "which is the best?" . Do some research on the different weights, and brands, etc.

Some people prefer expansion over penetration, or vice versa. Some feel the need for ammo to go through barriers, of whatever. Decide on what you want. And look for a round that will do what you want it to do.

Without getting too technical, Speer Gold Dots are great, and I'm sure tons if members here use them. I don't know the exact data, but I hear they expand reliably and penetrate to an acceptable depth.

Most importantly, though, is that you make sure it feeds properly in YOUR gun. Again, decide on what you want your gun to do. Run as many rounds if it through your gun as you feel comfortable with/can afford.

kyhunter
March 23, 2013, 04:56 AM
115 gold dots are fine. Millions of responses are sure to follow all with different answers. I shoot reloads at the range and for defense vastly prefer hornady HST's for defense. +p 124 grainers ;)

Bobson
March 23, 2013, 05:13 AM
115 gr +P Gold Dots are quality. I prefer 124 gr standard pressure Gold Dots, myself. They function flawlessly in my G19.

I started a thread about 9mm Gold Dots a few months back. I'll post a link to it in a few minutes.

ETA: Here it is:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=684052

kyhunter
March 23, 2013, 05:17 AM
good thread bobson. I agree on 124's in 9mm. 115's too light for me and 147's seem eratic from brand to brand and I think theyre a tad heavy for a 9mm imho

ku4hx
March 23, 2013, 06:01 AM
Which is best? Simple, my own hand loads are best for me. Cheap, accurate, factory level power when I want it and tailored to the gun. The best of all worlds.

Plan2Live
March 23, 2013, 06:31 AM
All modern, factory loaded hollow points will be effective self defense rounds as long as you do your part. Shot placement rules the day.

I would avoid handloads for self defense just as I would avoid modifying the gun. Either of those factors might come into question if you ever have to defend your actions in court.

AlbertH
March 23, 2013, 09:33 AM
All modern, factory loaded hollow points will be effective self defense rounds as long as you do your part. Shot placement rules the day.

I would avoid handloads for self defense just as I would avoid modifying the gun. Either of those factors might come into question if you ever have to defend your actions in court.
When my wife and I took our required CPL handgun safety class, it included a presentation by a lawyer who specializes in firearms cases. He told us that while all JHP rounds are basically the same your chances of winning a self defense gun case are much better if you happen to have ammo in your weapon that is advertised as "Home Defense" such as in "Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense" instead of something like "Winchester Black Talon Deep Penetrator". He said it is much easier to for him to sway the jury in your favor by making the point that you had "Defensive rounds" in your weapon. He also mentioned that the Prosecutor will use the words "Deep Penetrator" to imply that you had an "offensive type" ammo instead of a "Defensive" ammo in your weapon.

The jury has the ultimate decision on your guilt, so anything you can do in your favor never hurts. It's all a marketing hype and the reason you see more "Home Defense" ammo being released by the manufacturers. I actually believe that the Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense ammo is just re-named Remington Golden Saber.



Al

Torian
March 23, 2013, 10:07 AM
Gold dots (bonded) are a great alternative to HST bullets if you can't obtain those. Some of the older loads, such as the the Ranger and the Ranger SXT loads are also great.

I recently got a good deal on a 500 round tin of Ranger 9mm 115 grain +p+. That's my current load. It's an oldie, but it's had a great record of effectiveness with LEO agencies.

sota
March 23, 2013, 10:17 AM
My personal research into this question came up with the following as my answers...

Federal Hydra-Shock P9HST1 defensive ammo (124gr, 9mm, standard pressure)
Federal AE9AP range/practice ammo (124gr, 9mm, standard pressure)

those two are almost identical in feel and PoI, within my abilities at least. :)
there's just a smidge more kick to the P9HST1 if you shoot them back-to-back, but the difference is just barely noticeable and to me shouldn't create an issue with muscle memory for recoil control.

I've also practiced with CCI 5201 ammo (124gr, 9mm, standard pressure) and it's a good alternative/substitute to AE9AP.

smalls
March 23, 2013, 10:26 AM
...your chances of winning a self defense gun case are much better if you happen to have ammo in your weapon that is advertised as "Home Defense" such as in "Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense" instead of something like "Winchester Black Talon Deep Penetrator"...

Not saying it won't or can't happen, but I'm still waiting for someone to point out a case where ammo choice made a difference.

Hunter991
March 23, 2013, 10:38 AM
Speer gold dots are quality. Usually i prefer 124 gr but you are just fine with the 115.

Torian
March 23, 2013, 10:44 AM
When my wife and I took our required CPL handgun safety class, it included a presentation by a lawyer who specializes in firearms cases. He told us that while all JHP rounds are basically the same your chances of winning a self defense gun case are much better if you happen to have ammo in your weapon that is advertised as "Home Defense" such as in "Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense" instead of something like "Winchester Black Talon Deep Penetrator". He said it is much easier to for him to sway the jury in your favor by making the point that you had "Defensive rounds" in your weapon. He also mentioned that the Prosecutor will use the words "Deep Penetrator" to imply that you had an "offensive type" ammo instead of a "Defensive" ammo in your weapon.

The jury has the ultimate decision on your guilt, so anything you can do in your favor never hurts. It's all a marketing hype and the reason you see more "Home Defense" ammo being released by the manufacturers. I actually believe that the Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense ammo is just re-named Remington Golden Saber.



Al
I've heard that before, but I'm honestly not convinced. The real question is if you followed the letter of the law in using your handgun for self-defense, why did the DA take the case to court?

Hollow points are not designed to be "deep penetrators". Over penetration would be something more characteristic of some FMJ loads. I have a hard time believing the argument of defensive vs. offensive ammo would hold any weight. We do not shoot to wound, we shoot to kill / neutralize the threat, or not at all. Therefore, you would want the most effective ammo for the job. A load that requires fewer shots to take down the perp and has a lower risk of overpenetration would be the safest load to use.

If I was using the Ranger SXT loads, I wonder if our lawyer would be smart enough to know they are the same bullet as the black talon, minus the lubalox coating. I'd use either. Pass the evil black talon teflon coated cop-killer bullets please :)

C0untZer0
March 23, 2013, 10:47 AM
I want something to penetrate around 14" whether the assailant is only wearing a T-shirt or the assailant is wearing a ski jacket over a jean jacket over a sweater over a shirt over a T-shirt.

The Winchester 147gr Ranger "T" Series RA9T does that.

http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

It seems we do this every couple of weeks:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8633101&highlight=ra9t#post8633101

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=685833&highlight=ra9t

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=685530&highlight=ra9t

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=682025&highlight=ra9t

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=664395&highlight=ra9t

I searched the number of times I've mentioned RA9T :D

AlbertH
March 23, 2013, 11:10 AM
I've heard that before, but I'm honestly not convinced. The real question is if you followed the letter of the law in using your handgun for self-defense, why did the DA take the case to court?

Hollow points are not designed to be "deep penetrators". Over penetration would be something more characteristic of some FMJ loads. I have a hard time believing the argument of defensive vs. offensive ammo would hold any weight. We do not shoot to wound, we shoot to kill / neutralize the threat, or not at all. Therefore, you would want the most effective ammo for the job. A load that requires fewer shots to take down the perp and has a lower risk of overpenetration would be the safest load to use.

If I was using the Ranger SXT loads, I wonder if our lawyer would be smart enough to know they are the same bullet as the black talon, minus the lubalox coating. I'd use either. Pass the evil black talon teflon coated cop-killer bullets please :)

Who cares what the bullet is designed for or if the lawyer knows the difference, all the prosecutor needs to do is convince the jury that you were using an "Offensive type ammo" and the case sways against your innocence.

I needed some legal advice on a different firearms question that other lawyers were unable to answer, This lawyer took the time to do the research and provide me with the necessary documentation I needed. This same lawyer deals specifically with gun issues throughout Southern Michigan and has a pretty good track record and knowledge of the gun laws.

If you have ever been on any kind of jury trial, you would know that you are presented with all kinds of evidence by lawyers who are charged with the task of swaying the jury in their favor. All it takes is a reasonable doubt to acquit a person but it also only takes reasonable responsibility to convict that very same person.

I just offered to share the advice the lawyer provided my wife and I, the choice is yours as to whether you take it with a grain of salt or not. If you end up shooting someone, its your life that is on the line should you be charged, not mine.

BTW, This is the last about this issue you will hear from me, I am not here to argue, unlike it appears as though some are, I just provided an observation, should anyone decide to argue, find someone else to argue with.

Al

joecil
March 23, 2013, 11:13 AM
My first choice is 124 gr Speer GD +P short barrel in both of my 9mm. As for target stuff that feels almost exactly the same RWS Sportsman line in 124 gr.

Tomac
March 23, 2013, 12:09 PM
Shot placement & sufficient penetration are paramount, all else is secondary.
With that being said, I prefer 147gr bonded JHP for carry, more push but less snap for faster followup shots.
For practice I prefer 147gr but will use whatever's available & affordable.
Tomac

skoro
March 24, 2013, 08:30 AM
Speer 9mm -115-Grain-P-Gold-Dot-Hollow-Point

Gold Dots are excellent. Really, any top shelf hollow point ammo is going to do well.

hentown
March 24, 2013, 02:42 PM
When my wife and I took our required CPL handgun safety class, it included a presentation by a lawyer who specializes in firearms cases. He told us that while all JHP rounds are basically the same your chances of winning a self defense gun case are much better if you happen to have ammo in your weapon that is advertised as "Home Defense" such as in "Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense" instead of something like "Winchester Black Talon Deep Penetrator". He said it is much easier to for him to sway the jury in your favor by making the point that you had "Defensive rounds" in your weapon. He also mentioned that the Prosecutor will use the words "Deep Penetrator" to imply that you had an "offensive type" ammo instead of a "Defensive" ammo in your weapon.

The jury has the ultimate decision on your guilt, so anything you can do in your favor never hurts. It's all a marketing hype and the reason you see more "Home Defense" ammo being released by the manufacturers. I actually believe that the Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense ammo is just re-named Remington Golden Saber.


If that lawyer was worth a bucket of warm spit, he wouldn't have time to give presentations of such sophomoric silliness to gullible gun owners! :rolleyes:

That's like the vernerable "overzealous prosecutor" who lives between the ears of a certain Napoleonic, self-serving, non-legally-trained seminar-giver gunrag-writer. ;)

I use 127 gr. Win Ranger +p+ for both my nightstand G17 and my daily carry G26. If I'm involved in a s.d. shooting, there won't be a jury, I won't be charged with a crime, and there won't be a half-assed lawyer. :cool:

I'm paying about $.12 each for 9mm fmjs. I paid $27 for a box of 50 of the Winchester 127 +p+ ammo.

easyg
March 24, 2013, 03:54 PM
I prefer 124g +P hollow-points.
I really like the Remington Golden Saber, the Speer Gold Dot, and the Winchester PDX1.

Speedo66
March 24, 2013, 09:32 PM
I have seen the legendary myth of enhanced prosecution for which cartridge you use brought up many many times on many many sites.

I worked as an officer and court clerk in NYS Supreme Court, 2 different counties, for 40 years, with many different elected DA's, and hundreds of Asst. DA's. I sat through literally thousands of hearings and trials and never, not once, was the ammunition used ever an issue.

The last county I worked in did 50K felony arraignments a year, and I never ever even heard of ammo being an issue. Saw hundreds of police ballistic experts testify, and all they cared about when they tested ammo was either it went bang, or it didn't.

breakingcontact
March 24, 2013, 10:56 PM
I am getting a Glock 17 and bought 500 rounds of Speer 9mm -115-Grain-P-Gold-Dot-Hollow-Point.

YOU have yourself a large amount of quality ammo. Enjoy.

lpsharp88
March 24, 2013, 11:17 PM
My G26 likes Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +p ammo just fine

Chris-bob
March 25, 2013, 01:12 AM
I carry Hornadys Critical Duty.

Shawn Dodson
March 26, 2013, 09:40 AM
I carry Hornadys Critical Duty.

I was quite surprised to see how mediocre Hornady Critical Duty performed in these tests: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=125566

Hornady has done a great job convincing people that the polymer plug in the cavity helps the bullet expand when it passes through heavy clothing. The test results above shows that it under-performs compared to modern hollowpoint bullets that are designed for robust and relaible expansion.

IMO Federal HST is arguably the best performing handgun ammo currently available. When I deplete all the Speer Gold Dot ammo I have on hand I'm going to switch over the HST, which can be purchased in 50 round boxes for les than $30 (when it's in stock) at Streicher's Police Supply - http://www.policehq.com/Products/FC-9HST

mljdeckard
March 26, 2013, 10:14 AM
I think premium JHPs are pretty much a wash these days. If I had to pick my favorite, it would be 147 gr HST standard pressure, but my wife didn't like the recoil from them, so I went back to 115 gr.

Oh, and I completely agree with Shawn, the CD 'clogged cavity' problem is pretty much an invented problem and solution from Hornady.

mdauben
March 26, 2013, 10:15 AM
I am getting a Glock 17 and bought 500 rounds of Speer 9mm -115-Grain-P-Gold-Dot-Hollow-Point.

Sounds like you are set to me! :)

Before ammo prices and availability went crazy, my personal choice is 124gr +P in either Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST. That is just my preference, though. I would not feel unarmed with any of the premium JHP ammo from one of the big manufacturers. When it comes down to it the differences are just not all that significant. IMO at least. ;)

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk HD

bill3424
March 26, 2013, 11:07 AM
Wow...you're going to get a lot of different answers.

Federal HST's (124 or 147gr)
Speer Gold Dots
Wincheter Rangers (I forget the specific mode, RA9T?)

Corpral_Agarn
March 26, 2013, 01:27 PM
I was quite surprised to see how mediocre Hornady Critical Duty performed in these tests: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=125566

Hornady has done a great job convincing people that the polymer plug in the cavity helps the bullet expand when it passes through heavy clothing. The test results above shows that it under-performs compared to modern hollowpoint bullets that are designed for robust and relaible expansion.

IMO Federal HST is arguably the best performing handgun ammo currently available. When I deplete all the Speer Gold Dot ammo I have on hand I'm going to switch over the HST, which can be purchased in 50 round boxes for les than $30 (when it's in stock) at Streicher's Police Supply - http://www.policehq.com/Products/FC-9HST
I don't know. I think its okay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZFZFmBKa0

481
March 26, 2013, 08:57 PM
147 gr Gold Dots, HSTs, and PDX1s.

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