Couple long range questions...


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ILWakeboarder87
March 24, 2013, 01:24 AM
Hey guys so first off, thank you for all the information. I have been trolling and reading up on this site for a little while and appreciate all the information that is provided. I've been researching a decent amount so please do not flame with a search picture. I'd be more then happy to be pointed in the right direction or posts that have been overlooked.

I just have started to get into the realm of long range shooting and have to say... there is A LOT to learn about it. I don't want this to be another... I want to shoot 1000 yards... can I do it with broomstick broken in half for a front bipod and my $150 50x scope. But I do have some questions and am trying to find some more resources to get on the right track. Some of these questions I have searched and yet there is various answers to the questions. (Which I expect with people's opinions being involved) But I'd appreciate gathering some information from you guys in one location. Thank you in advance.

Here is what I'm looking to do and am looking for some guidance, even for articles or things that will help my knowledge base for this journey. I have about 120 acres in the mountains so there is land for me to practice on and do have access to the distances that are being sought after. I am looking to be able to get experience shooting from 100 yards to 1000. No i'm not looking to punch holes in paper except to get a good 0 and work on hand loads. The goal is to be able to have defense on my property and also hunting purposes. There are three families living on the property and well... i'm the defense if something happens. The homes range from 400 yards to 800 with a 100 to 300ft decline in elevation from the position being shot from.

My current start to this project:
Remington 700 AAC-SD in .308
Badger Ordnance 20MOA Mount (http://www.primaryarms.com/Badger_Ordnance_Remington_700_BDL_Short_Action_Sco_p/306-06.htm)
No Bipod, stock, or scope as of yet.

Total Budget: $1600-2000 remaining

So my questions are these as of now:
1) Scope: I am looking for a FFP scope, have a budget around $1000 and and am a little confused on the magnification power. Some say that 10X is good for 600 yards, others if I'm a real shooter can hit with iron sights (if I had any) and some say less is better or more is better. What suggestions do you have for magnification and scopes that are FFP? Currently I have been looking at the Viper Vortex (http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-6-24x50-ffp-riflescope-with-ebr-1-mrad-reticle/reticle)
2) Elevation, Windage, Breathing, Range Estimation and other information: What books or resources would you recommend for learning more about the outside factors that come into play shooting at these distances?
3) Hand Loads: Yes I will be starting to load as well. Again, a lot of information on it for the 1/10 twist rate, powders, weight... resources besides trial and error?
4) If you had $1600-2000 left to spend... What would you get based on the goals?


Sorry for the long post and I do appreciate you taking the time to read this and respond.

Have a great night,
James

Found some good information, thank you Redneck2

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redneck2
March 24, 2013, 10:46 AM
go to the sticky at the top of this forum...

Sticky: THR Rifle Forum Reading Library _ Useful Links
Bartholomew Roberts Reference Library.

Look at these three. Answers your questions in great detail

Practical Long Range Rifle Shooting Pt. I - The Rifle and Gear
Optics For Practical Long Range Rifle Shooting Pt. II
Practical Long Range Rifle Shooting Pt. III - Shooting

taliv
March 24, 2013, 01:05 PM
generally speaking power selection is a function of how fast you need to shoot and how large the target is (not just to hit it, but also to identify it)

when i need to find a target quickly in a large field, i don't go over 10-12x just because doing so limits the field of view too much. when i have time to find the target but it's very small or a long way off, i really appreciate the 25x upper end on my S&B and USO scopes.

zak's articles are great. there are some new toys out in the years since he wrote those though. bushnell is now selling a 4-30x scope that is pretty cool.

the mil guys who used 10x scopes did so mostly because that's what they were issued. they made it work, but they were also shooting very large targets.

Savage99
March 24, 2013, 02:25 PM
After reading Wakeboards post on how everyone is out to get him and he must prepare to shoot at people a thousand yards away I am realizing that this new crop of "tactical" types are destroying our gun ownership and freedoms.

No wonder why we are having massacres now!

Remember that what he posted has gone into the Government's data bank.

ILWakeboarder87
March 24, 2013, 02:44 PM
Where is there anything in my post saying that everyone is out to get me Savage99?

Where do you get this idea that I am sitting here waiting to pick people off from a top of a building and kill people in schools? You need to understand self defense for the sake of protecting a family vs being a criminal and mass murders.

I live on a land with my parents who are getting up there in age are in a different home then myself on the property. To get down to them it will take me at least 3-5 minutes if I'm running full out. If someone comes to their house to steal things and possibly hurt them... Do I have no right to protect my family and loved ones?

I think you have a wrong perspective to our gun rights and what I'm even asking. If you believe I'm a new "tactical" type then how about you sell all your guns and do not protect your family. How about you just leave them in a position of weakness when they are older and unable to really defend themselves. Why not put a sign saying, I sold all my guns because they are bad... Please rob my parents. Exactly, sounds crazy and you wouldn't do it. If you have ANY weapon in your home for self defense then you must be a new "tactical" type as well. Have a nice day.

taliv
March 24, 2013, 02:53 PM
savage99, after reading your post, i assume you have heard of the 2nd amendment, but do not comprehend its purpose.

wakeboard's post looking for information and advice to exercise his right is in fact, the complete opposite of destroying our freedom. that's like saying using your muscles destroys them, when everyone knows it's using them that makes them stronger.

it is your misguided stereotypes and assumptions about the motives of others that are destroying our freedoms. it is posts like yours that cause gun owners to feel ashamed and try to hide what they're doing, or that cause them to not ask questions and educate themselves.

Bushpilot
March 24, 2013, 05:38 PM
Taliv, I read this post before ilwakeboarder87 deleted it and was just going to take the High Road and let it pass until you attacked Savage99 and tried to legitimize this nonsense by throwing the 2nd Amendment at it. This isn’t about the Second Amendment, this is about being realistic or delusional. In just what kind of post apocalyptic, civilian defense scenario is ilwakeboarder87 going to be taking shots at 800 + yards to keep his parents from being “robbed?” He says his relatives are 400 and 800 yards away, how is he going to even fully understand who or what is a true threat at that distance? Is he going to be getting “Intel” over the phone from Mom and Dad on which targets to “take out?” Are the bad guys going to all wear black hats? Are they going to have a fire fight outside in the yard shooting at his family inside the house? There is after all a direct relationship between distance and threat. I’d like to know of any actual cases where a civilian shot an attacker or threat to his family at 800-1000 yards and it was deemed a legitimate case of defense. If ilwakeboarder87 wants to learn how to shoot at 1000 yards that’s just great, but expecting the rest of us to silently sit by and accept his premise without comment is not. I’m as pro 2nd amendment as they come but this sniper, hero, fantasy crap is all incredibly unrealistic and belongs in a bad movie script not “legitimized” on this board. If ilwakeboarder87 thinks it’s all so legitimate then why did he delete his post?

taliv
March 24, 2013, 06:48 PM
Bushpilot essentially what you are saying is the second amendment provides no protection for scoped long range rifles as no civilian has a need for such a thing even in the event said civilian chooses to resist a mythical future tyrannical government.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see anything in the op about "being robbed". I have no idea why he deleted and then undeleted his post. Ask him if it matters to you. I assumed he thought one of the stickies answered his question.

For all I know he may be wanting to defend his parents domestic animals from wild predators.

While I'm not making life decisions based on Hollywood scenarios I'm also not in a hurry to judge others. I would welcome anyone pointing out laws or precedent that may be a warning or guidance for the op. I agree there are not many scenarios where use of force is legal from 800 yards. Even so, full value knuckleheads are constantly innovating. Not many people had tried to blow up a plane by setting their shoe on fire until recently. It's not really a priority for me but if the op chooses to spend his time preparing for such a threat, well it's a free country.

But savages post wasn't "you might want to rethink that because it's probably not practical or legal response to crime". Savages post was "you are paranoid and destroying our rights and causing massacres" (none of which seem to be true)

jason41987
March 24, 2013, 07:00 PM
you cant beat a .308 caliber bolt action for a workhorse for such a purpose, ammunition is easy to find, and a bolt action 308 is easily an 1000 yard rifle

ILWakeboarder87
March 24, 2013, 07:15 PM
I deleted it originally because I received a helpful answer of information that was overlooked in my research. Figured that it was a long post and forget it since well... how some of your perception of my question would be. Then figured why not see if anyone else had any information that would help me on a journey to learning the art of long range shooting and not worry about perceptions.

If someone was asking to protect their flocks from other animals... would you be giving them a hard time? Do I think the world is going to end? No. Do I think the earth is going to split in multiple pieces and we're all going to die? Do I think I may ever even have to shoot that long of a range? Highly doubt it. Would I like the knowledge, information, equipment and experience to do it IF I did need to... yes.

So that is why I figured that some people here who are knowledgeable, would answer a few questions. But it seems as if that was a mistake. I should not have said what my goals were and write a post so you knew what was the goal was to provide information based on that. So judge all you want, I will continue to research for information without bothering you with my "Post apocalyptic, delusional, fantasy, hero sniper hollywood ideas".

11c2v
March 24, 2013, 07:32 PM
Nothing wrong with being prepared.
Most likely never need it
I rekon I won't need my 40 S&W but I don't go ANYWHERE without it.
I suppose that makes me a bad man too, right?

taliv
March 24, 2013, 07:36 PM
closed at OP request


if anyone wants to discuss realistic civilian defensive strategies or tactics feel free to do so in the S&T forum, or discussion of 2A use of long range rifles (here or there)

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