Saigas and bird hunting in TX


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allaroundhunter
March 24, 2013, 07:06 PM
Help me out here, guys. Yesterday I overheard a guy recommending a Saiga 12 as a duck and dove hunting gun. Here in TX, I am wondering about the legality of this. Even if you can find 2 round magazines for them, are they legal to use? I have looked through the TPWD manual and I see nothing specifically making a magazine fed shotgun not a "legal shotgun"...

Yes, please set aside the fact that they are a poor choice for either application. I am not looking to purchase one, I think they are ugly as all get-out personally. I am just curious as to the legality of their use for such applications.

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hirundo82
March 24, 2013, 07:30 PM
As long as you can get a mag that restricts you to 3 rounds in the gun, as per federal limits for migratory species, I don't see that it should be a problem.

Blue68f100
March 24, 2013, 07:56 PM
And it must be in such that you must tear the gun done. Not just pull a cap and dump the plug.

allaroundhunter
March 24, 2013, 09:54 PM
So if the mag is limited to 2 rounds, and the hunter does not have any magazines with a higher capacity on him/her, they are hunting within the law?

Patocazador
March 24, 2013, 10:49 PM
That sounds correct. However, call a LEO with the Game dept. and ask them.

juk
March 26, 2013, 03:17 AM
I would get one if I was going on one of those goose hunts that you don't have to use a plug and you shoot as many geese as you can. I'm sure it would swing like a pig with a drum mag, but that many rounds of 12 gauge can't be denied. LOL!

adelbridge
March 26, 2013, 04:31 PM
I would be more concerned with how to choke the Saiga full. Magazine can always be plugged with a roll of dimes.

oneounceload
March 27, 2013, 08:10 PM
I would get one if I was going on one of those goose hunts that you don't have to use a plug and you shoot as many geese as you can. I'm sure it would swing like a pig with a drum mag, but that many rounds of 12 gauge can't be denied. LOL!

And where would that be happening? Geese are migratory and fall under Federal laws, like the dove and ducks

limpingbear
March 27, 2013, 08:36 PM
Some states ( Washington, North carolina and I think Nevada) have unlimited snow goose hunts. You can use an unplugged gun and electronic calls and I believe the bag limits are very generous. Bear in mind this is only within certain areas of the states and only for specific speicies, and its not an all the time thing. Some years they have them and some years they dont.

MCgunner
March 27, 2013, 10:06 PM
Other than the magazine limit of two rounds being necessary, you're restricted to steel shot on waterfowl. I'm assuming it has a steel rated barrel and chokes? I know nothing about these things, have no interest.

My next goose gun will be a BPS 10.

backbencher
March 27, 2013, 10:32 PM
We had a late season snow goose special hunt last year, I think, w/ unplugged mags, high bag limits, etc. Saiga's just the ticket for that, or the Turkish AR lookalike. 2 rnd mags for Federal waterfowl the rest of the time, though.

MCgunner
March 28, 2013, 11:18 AM
Meh, I currently hunt geese with a H&R single shot 10 gauge. I don't need no stinkin' tacticool to kill geese. :D

http://i47.tinypic.com/ilvxgz.jpg

jmorris
March 28, 2013, 12:01 PM
And it must be in such that you must tear the gun done. Not just pull a cap and dump the plug.


That's a new one to me. I have never had a problem despite having having to break off a tree branch to use as a plug a time or two. All that my 1100's require is to remove the cap, install plug and replace the cap.

You could limit the sagia's factory 5 round mag easy enough but reloading lots of rounds quickly is the benefit. They would be slower than a tube fed gun with just two rounds in the mag.

They also don't have last shot bolt hold open, so you can't drop on on the chamber then trigger the bolt release while loading the next into the tube, like other semiautos.

Also it might be worth looking for saiga chokes, they can be hard to come by. If you get the fixed choke barrel they only come in full.

WardenWolf
March 28, 2013, 01:36 PM
I would be more concerned with how to choke the Saiga full. Magazine can always be plugged with a roll of dimes.

Poly-Choke 2. This dial-a-warhead solution lets you change your grouping on the fly.

I bought some Surefire 2-round magazines for my gun. They work fine, and with a little bit of filing on the upper corners they drop free when you press the mag release. I've also figured out that it's very easy to fit a round in the bolt when you have the magazine out, so you can do 2+1 like a normal shotgun.

allaroundhunter
March 28, 2013, 05:56 PM
Other than the magazine limit of two rounds being necessary, you're restricted to steel shot on waterfowl. I'm assuming it has a steel rated barrel and chokes? I know nothing about these things, have no interest.

My next goose gun will be a BPS 10.

I honestly have no idea.... I just overheard someone recommend a Saiga for duck and dove hunting over a more conventional, and better suited, shotgun....

It was really hard to keep my mouth closed, I'm pretty sure the guy making the recommendation has never been hunting in his life.

MCgunner
March 28, 2013, 06:56 PM
It was really hard to keep my mouth closed, I'm pretty sure the guy making the recommendation has never been hunting in his life.

That would be a good assumption. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-010.gif One thing about Saigas that would be a killer for me, I mean, beyond the crappy balance and ergos, is the location of the safety. I wanna be able to disengage the safety as I bring the gun to the shoulder. That works best for me with a tang safety, but I've got a left hand crossbolt on my Winchester auto that works pretty well for me, too, now. That AK safety sux for the hunter. Can't get off a quick snap shot with the safety on the side of the receiver. :rolleyes:

MCgunner
March 28, 2013, 07:02 PM
Oh, another thing, on snows, I prefer something that will reach out and touch 'em on a clear day. For me, that's T steel, only available in 3.5". Saigas don't shoot 3.5" I don't believe, or maybe even 3". Ducks and doves, no problem, but geese, I much prefer the 10 gauge shooting steel Ts. Heavy shot BBB works well from the 3" hull in 12 gauge, but I ain't that noted rich waterfowl hunter, John Kerry. I can't afford 3-4 bucks a shot for a friggin' goose. :rolleyes:

I think Canadas must be stupid because the folks that hunt them say "just wait till they're closer". Sure, right, try to get closer on a snow late season on a blue bird day. Think you're a good caller? I wanna watch. :rolleyes: I've been there, done that with the 12, finally got serious.

WardenWolf
March 28, 2013, 07:19 PM
I've found my Saiga handles well and is quick to the shoulder, but I put the skeleton stock on it. My 3 modifications:

1. TwisterPuc replacement gas puck
2. Poly-Choke 2
3. Saiga skeleton stock (faster cheek weld and no ear slap)

MCgunner
March 29, 2013, 11:06 AM
Is that poly choke steel shot rated? I had a "C-Lect" choke on an old Mossberg built "Revelation" branded 12. I replaced the barrel with a 28" vent rib interchangeable choke for steel use. This gun kept me hunting ducks and geese for a decade after the steel shot law went into effect here in 1980. I'd been using a Spanish built double I bought in 1971. I didn't wanna destroy that gun and it was choked mod/full.

I have a couple of other Mossies now days, one is a 535 I bought at a pawn shop a bit over a year ago and has killed a limit of dove, but haven't hunted waterfowl with it, yet. It has a 3.5" chamber and when I can find some 3.5" T steel to pattern in it, I plan to do that. :D I ain't holding my breath that it will shoot as well as my 10, which patterns over 90 percent 30" pattern at 40 yards with steel T. That thing is amazing. Being 9 lbs, it also soaks up the recoil of those big rounds pretty well, too. The Mossy is going to be a might harder on the shoulder, I'm afraid.

juk
March 29, 2013, 12:08 PM
I was referring to Late season Snow Goose hunts in Arkansas. It seems like all of my better off duck hunting friends have been on at least one of those hunts. Lead shot, no plug, no bag limit. The Snows just pile into the rice fields by the thousands. It's literally a shoot-all-day kind of thing. Or, shoot until you are sore or run out of shells. I haven't worked up to guided hunts or buying into a hunting lease yet. It's a little to rich for my blood. It's on my list though.

WardenWolf
March 29, 2013, 02:07 PM
Is that poly choke steel shot rated?

Sure is. All current-production Poly-Chokes are rated for steel shot. Additionally, the Saiga 12 is a very soft-shooting shotgun, despite not being very heavy. I can put 35-40 rounds of #00 Buck through it with no discomfort. However, the skeleton stock IS a must.

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