Help needed to consolidate loads to one powder.


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LightningMan
March 24, 2013, 08:16 PM
Hello all, I'm wanting a little help with getting some more exact load data so I can use one powder for my reloads on my Dillon 550B press. First, a little background and reason for doing so. In the past 4 years I've been using a RCBS rock-chucker for loading my .45 acp, 9mm luger, & .40 S&W, which I would probably still be doing if it weren't for the dissappearance of .22 LR ammo. I would usually maybe shoot 100-200 rds. of one of these calibers a week, plus a brick of .22 rounds. While it didn't take too long to reload the center-fire rounds with the rock-chucker, but due to the shortage of .22 LR ammo, I've been shooting a lot more center fire ammo. So I've decided to include the above calibers to be loaded on my Dillon press, which up till now have only been loading .38 specials for my Cowboy action ammo. I've got what I need to reload for these calibers ( 9mm, 40 S&W .45acp ) but would like to get data for all using one kind of powder, and that powder is Winchester 231, as I have a lot of it, besides it meters well in my Dillon better than Unique or Bullseye. Ok cut to the chase, I use SNS cast bullets for all three, 200 gr. SWC for .45s, 180 gr. FP for .40 S&W and 125 gr. RN for 9mm. I have a general idea about how much powder to charge them with, but would like actual data from those with experence who have used SNS cast bullets & Win 231 powder, instead of book data that doesn't have the exact bullet or the OAL needed for them. Thanks for any help in advance, LM.

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noylj
March 24, 2013, 08:38 PM
I don't understand the problem--any good reloading manual has data for 231/HP38 for these rounds. Are you looking for the "magical" charge weight that will guarantee accuracy? If so, it doesn't exist.
For COL, it depends not just on the bullets, but also what COL your magazine will feed and what COL your ramp and chamber will easily feed.
>I use SNS cast bullets for all three, 200 gr. SWC for .45s, 180 gr. FP for .40 S&W and 125 gr. RN for 9mm.

For the 200gn L-SWC for .45 Auto, I have had best success with 4.8-5.2gn 231/HP38. 5.4gn is as high as I have gone. I set COL such that there is some shoulder above the case mouth and I use the barrel to ensure that the COL sets the case head just below the barrel ramp--thus, minimizing the headspace. This is usually 1.24-1.26"
For 180gn .40S&W, I have had best success with 4.0-4.8gn 231/HP38. COL is usually 1.135-1.175", though I have successfully loaded all the way up to 1.225".
I have not had any great success with 121-125gn bullets and 231/HP38, though 4.0-5.1gn has been OK. COL has generally been 1.080-1.125", with most being right at 1.100".
Here is my compilation of data. Start at lowest start load and approach each max load carefully.

Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Note Power Factor COL
L-SWC 195 231/HP38 3.9 642 Start 125
Lyman 452460 L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.0 694 Start 139 1.161
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.1 Several small groups 0
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.1 726 25 yd 145
Bull-X L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.2 748 Target 150
Rainier P-HP 200 231/HP38 4.4 609 Start 122
Rainier P-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.4 640 Start 128
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.4 771 Start 154 1.225
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.4 798 50 yd 160
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.4 718 25 yd 144
Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.5 808 Start/Acc. 162
Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.5 719 Start 144
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.5 Acc. 0.928" base to shoulder
Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 4.6 760 V. Acc. 152
swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.6 739 Start/Acc. 148 1.185
Rainier P-FP 200 231/HP38 4.6 611 Start 122
Rainier P-HP 200 231/HP38 4.6 630 Start 126
Rainier P-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.6 647 Start 129
Case L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.6 Bullseye/Practice
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.6 Acc. 0.928" base to shoulder
Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 4.6 714 143 1.202
Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 4.6 745 149
Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 4.6 760 152
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.8 800 Start 160
Lead 200 231/HP38 4.8 804 Start 161
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.8 796 50 yd 159
swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.8 650 4.8-5.3gn 130
Carroll L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 787 V. Acc. 157
Rainier P-FP 200 231/HP38 5.0 687 Start 137
swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 803 Max 161 1.185
Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 811 Max 162
Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 892 Max 178
Hdy L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 714 143 1.225
Montana LBT-RFN 200 231/HP38 5.0 739 148 1.241
Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 5.0 766 153 1.202
LS L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 797 159 1.240
RCBS #45-201K L-SWC 201 231/HP38 5.0 800 161
Lyman 452460 200 231/HP38 5.0 805 161 1.161
RCBS 45-201-KT SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 810 162 1.240
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.1 Target 0 1.224
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.2 739 Start 148
L-SWC, L-C/T 200 231/HP38 5.2 800 Start 160
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.2 850 Max/Favorite 170 1.250
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.3 Target-Acc. 0
Hdy L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.3 Acc. 0
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.3 Acc. 0
Lyman 452630 L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.4 769 Start 154 1.235
Hdy L-SWC, L-C/T 200 231/HP38 5.4 800 Start 160 1.200–1.225
Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 5.4 814 163
Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 5.4 821 164 1.202
Hdy lead C/T 200 231/HP38 5.4 857 171
L-SWC, L-RN 200 231/HP38 5.5 910 Max 182
Bull-X L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 865 Acc 173
Bull-X L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 840 168
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 841 168 1.263
Carroll L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 850 170
LS L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 865 173 1.240
RCBS 45-201-KT SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 880 176 1.240
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 908 182
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.6 914 Max 183 1.225
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.6 920 Max 184
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.6 854 171
L-SWC 195 231/HP38 5.7 962 Max 188

Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Note P.F. COL
L-SWC 180 231/HP38 3.5 744 134 1.135
L-SWC 180 231/HP38 3.5 737 133 1.135
Hdy L-SWC 180 231/HP38 3.8 750 Start 135 1.125
LC L-TC 180 231/HP38 4.1 815 147
FP 180 231/HP38 4.3 899 162 1.190
RCBS40-180-CMRNFP 180 231/HP38 4.5 863 155
L-RNFP 177 231/HP38 4.5 833 147
LC L-TC 180 231/HP38 4.6 947 170
Lyman 401043L-FP 180 231/HP38 5.0 975 Start 176
FP 180 231/HP38 5.0 989 178 1.190
Lyman 401043LFP 180 231/HP38 5.5 1037 187
swaged L-SWC 180 231/HP38 5.7 950 Max 171

Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Note P.F. COL
L-CFP 121 231/HP38 2.9 963 Start 117
L-RN 121 231/HP38 3.0 1010 Start 122
L-RN 124 231/HP38 3.3 910 Start 113
Bull-X L-FN 122 231/HP38 3.5 1024 Start 125
MasterCast L-CN 125 231/HP38 3.5 1028 Start 129 1.100
Lead 124 231/HP38 3.6 Start 0
Speer L-RN 125 231/HP38 3.8 911 Start 114 1.130
Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 3.8 970 122 1.110
L-CN 125 231/HP38 3.9 1009 Start 126 1.125
Speer L-RN 125 231/HP38 3.9 917 Start 115 1.130
SAECO 377 123 231/HP38 4.0 999 poor accuracy 123 1.080
L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.0 1035 Max 128
Plated 124 231/HP38 4.0 Accurate 0
Alberts swaged Lead 125 231/HP38 4.0 941 Acc 118 1.110
Alberts swaged Lead 125 231/HP38 4.0 905 113 1.110
L-FP 122 231/HP38 4.0 1081 132 1.070
Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.0 967 122 1.110
Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.0 998 126 1.110
Magnus L-FN 122 231/HP38 4.0 1096 134 1.142
NBC L-FN 122 231/HP38 4.0 1088 133 1.142
Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.0 1013 127 1.130
Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.0 1012 127 1.130
Lead 124 231/HP38 4.1 Stock service pistol 0
Lead 124 231/HP38 4.1 Minor 0
L-RN 121 231/HP38 4.1 1148 Max 139
Speer L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.1 982 Max 123 1.130
Speer L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.2 995 Max 124 1.130
L-FP 122 231/HP38 4.2 1068 Accurate 130
L-SWC 125 231/HP38 4.2 1153 Accurate 144
Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.2 1009 Acc 127 1.110
L-FN 122 231/HP38 4.2 1033 126
L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.2 1040 130
L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.2 1062 133
L-SWC 125 231/HP38 4.2 1023 128
Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.2 1032 130 1.110
RCBS 9mm-125-RN-GC 123 231/HP38 4.2 1034 127
RCBS 9mm-125-RNGC 123 231/HP38 4.2 1034 127
Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.2 1046 131 1.130
Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.2 1052 132 1.130
L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.3 1071 133 1.130
L-CFP 121 231/HP38 4.4 1264 Max 153
L-CN 125 231/HP38 4.4 1086 Max 136 1.125
Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1073 129
Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1092 131
Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1104 132
Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1111 133
Lyman 356242 L-RN 120 231/HP38 4.4 1116 134
Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 988 123
Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1022 127
Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1022 127
Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1024 127
Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1039 129
Oregon Trail L-RN 124 231/HP38 4.4 1061 132
Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.4 1070 134 1.130
Bayou Bullet 125 231/HP38 4.4 1071 134 1.130
L-CFN 124 231/HP38 4.5 1015 Start 126
Lee 356-125-2R 126 231/HP38 4.5 1052 poor accuracy 133 1.160
Magma L-RN 126 231/HP38 4.5 1076 136 1.110
RCBS 9mm-125-RNGC 123 231/HP38 4.5 1034 127
L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.6 1104 Start 138
Berry's P-RN 124 231/HP38 4.6 1100 136 1.135
L-RN 125 231/HP38 4.7 1094 Start 137
L-CFN 124 231/HP38 5.0 1135 MaX 141
L-RN 125 231/HP38 5.0 1130 Max 141
Lyman 356402 120 231/HP38 5.0 1195 143
L-RN 125 231/HP38 5.1 1122 Max 140
Lyman 356402 120 231/HP38 5.5 1250 150

oneounceload
March 24, 2013, 08:54 PM
If you have a manual- and you DO, correct? - then your question is already answered

LightningMan
March 24, 2013, 09:23 PM
noylj, thanks for your reply, I should have included the OAL of each which is 1.130 for 9mm, 1.125 for .40 S&W, and 1.245 for .45 acp. As for manual I have three, and several pamplets and have looked at some others, but because of no two books have the exact same data or list X brand bullet or another, I just wanted to hear from someone whom has used what I'm wanting to use. I have already used 231 for .45 acp using 5.0 grs. which seemed like a pretty good load, and it looks like it falls within what your using. I have yet to try .40 S&W or 9mm but my thoughts were 4.4 grs. for .40 and 4.0 grs. for 9mm. The only other bullets I've tried using 231 were Berry's plated 115 gr. & 124 gr. bullets for 9mm, but have not tried SNS cast RN bullets with 231 yet. Thanks again. LM

GCBurner
March 24, 2013, 09:33 PM
Winchester 231 powder works fine with all three of those calibres. If that's what you've got, you will be fine, and only stocking one powder simplifies things.

gacajun
March 24, 2013, 09:39 PM
I have loads for Universal Clays that work well for all of the calibers you mentioned. If you shoot cowboy action like I do you'll also find you can use it for your shotshells.

GCBurner
March 24, 2013, 10:14 PM
I have loads for Universal Clays that work well for all of the calibers you mentioned. If you shoot cowboy action like I do you'll also find you can use it for your shotshells.
Red Dot works for all of them, too, and is also a shotshell powder. I use Red Dot a lot for 9mm practice loads, just because I got a lot of it fairly cheap.

One78Shovel
March 24, 2013, 10:18 PM
I use Universal Clays for all my pistol loads in 9,38,357,40,45

-178S

jmorris
March 24, 2013, 10:29 PM
When I started loading almost 3 decades ago I loaded almost all of my pistol rounds with 231 that were "pinker" range. I haven't used it in quite a while for anything but I still have some in metal cans left over.

I think of myself as 231, can do just about anything but not the "best" at any of them.

LightningMan
March 24, 2013, 10:35 PM
GCBurner Quote;Winchester 231 powder works fine with all three of those calibres. If that's what you've got, you will be fine, and only stocking one powder simplifies things.

Thanks that the exact reason I'm trying to simplify this is so I don't have to change the powder in the only dispencer I have at the moment, and as stated above in the original post that I have a lot of 231. BTW I have other powders but of the three I could use for all calibers I list, Bullseye, Unique & 231, 231 meters the best in my despencer. LM

ArchAngelCD
March 24, 2013, 10:36 PM
W231 is a good choice if you want to use only one powder.

In the 45 Auto w/200gr SWC I like a charge of 5.5gr W231.
In the 9mm w/124/125gr LRN I like a charge of 4.0gr to 4.4gr W231 but use 4.0gr most.
In the .38 Special w/158gr LSWC a charge of 4.0gr W231 is my favorite load.
In the 40 S&W w/180 LFP bullet my friend loads 4.9gr W231.

GCBurner
March 24, 2013, 10:39 PM
The same powder is fine, just as long as you remember not to use the same CHARGE of powder. :)

oneounceload
March 25, 2013, 03:03 PM
I went from Unique to Universal because it is somewhat cleaner. Red Dot, Bullseye, Clays, and a whole host of others will all work for what you are shooting - and many work for shotgun as well, which I like
I can load all of my shotgun and handgun ammo with just two powders

oldpapps
March 25, 2013, 06:04 PM
I agree with your choice of 231.

I also use it for my 'powder-puff' .44 Mag load. 240g lswc over 5.6g 231 in mag brass with standard LP primers - 650ish FPS.

Same charge under 200g lswc .452 (last batch weighed in at 204 grains) - 850ish FPS.

I use 155g lead in 40S&W, still use 231. (5.3g for 910ish FPS)

The brother runs 125g lfp cone with 4g of 231 and gets 1030ish FPS from his 9MM.

For information only, loading information may not be safe in your weapon.... You know the drill. Be safe.

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