Talk me into H110/Win296 for 357mag


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JRWhit
March 24, 2013, 09:06 PM
I've been back and forth about buying some H110 for loading the 357 magnum. I always talk myself out of it and toward H4227. I just have a hard time getting past the narrow fudge factor of H110. Even with the warnings of not reducing max loads more than 3%, I still run into reprints in new version manuals where start load is clearly 10% below the never exceed load. The mental barrier I have is the small amount of difference in Start and never exceed, about .5gn. compared to other powders for the cartridge. Talk me down on this. Is it worth the extra 100 FPS?

If given the choice of H110/ 296, or H4227, which one? Or neither?

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witchhunter
March 24, 2013, 09:30 PM
I have shot thousands of .357 Magnum 125 HP's in front of max loads of H-110 over the years, it is my favorite!

Fishslayer
March 24, 2013, 09:38 PM
You'll get no help from me, but I'm a 2400 fan... :D

joneb
March 24, 2013, 09:41 PM
My .357 mags have 4" and shorter barrels. My favorite powders are Accurate #7,#9 and 2400.

Lj1941
March 24, 2013, 09:52 PM
Accurate #9 or Power Pistol for me. I read too many horror stories about WW 296.:)

cfullgraf
March 24, 2013, 09:53 PM
I use W296 in .410 shot shells, 300 BLK and 357 Magnum. Have been since the 1980s (357 Magnum).

It works fine for me. Just stick to the published load ranges.

ljnowell
March 24, 2013, 09:53 PM
I would love to but I cant. I think that 2400 is a better all around powder than H110/296.

Mobuck
March 24, 2013, 09:58 PM
H110, CCI SPM primers, and Speer 158 JHP does the job for me.

JRWhit
March 24, 2013, 10:02 PM
Haven't tried 2400. To date I've been using blue dot. No problems but with all the combinations I'm inclined to explore.



Hey where's RC

Constrictor
March 24, 2013, 10:05 PM
I've had great luck with 296 but have no need for it as long as I can find 2400.
I'm not going to talk anyone into using anything. This is your journey

beatledog7
March 24, 2013, 10:07 PM
I pretty much stopped using H110 in .357Mag because there's so little load range. It shoots great, but every round is basically a full power round, with just 1 grain between start and max. I still use it in .44Mag where there's twice as much range to work with.

Almost all my .357Mag loads now are 2400, though I sometimes use a small does of a faster powder for cat-sneeze plinkers.

Clark
March 24, 2013, 10:07 PM
I like H110 for 357 mag.
I like the smell.
I tried LIL'GUN for a few years, but it does not smell as good, and blows too much power out the muzzle.
I use magnum primers.
I use a heavy crimp. [This is a MUST for reduced loads with H110].

AA#9 [Ramshot Enforcer] and 2400 are ok, but the favorite is H110/W296.

cfullgraf
March 24, 2013, 10:36 PM
It (W296) shoots great, but every round is basically a full power round, with just 1 grain between start and max. .

Agreed.

When I want reduced power loads in 357 Magnum, I use another powder like Unique.

ArchAngelCD
March 24, 2013, 11:07 PM
My 3 favorite powders for loading all handgun ammo are W231, W540 and W296. (HP-38, HS-6 & H110)

If you want top performance from your .357 Magnum ammo with accuracy too there is nothing like W296/H110. It is the magnum powder when you want velocity. I hear the new Power Pro 300-MP delivers even more velocity but I haven't tried it yet so I'll stick with W296. Running 16.7gr to 17.0gr W296 under a 158 JHP bullet is a monster!

Strongbad
March 24, 2013, 11:10 PM
I have shot thousands of .357 Magnum 125 HP's in front of max loads of H-110 over the years, it is my favorite!

Same here. H-110's w/ 125 HP's is a great load.

41wheelgun
March 24, 2013, 11:13 PM
My favorite is AA #9, 13.5gr behind a 158gr jacketed boolit.

4895
March 24, 2013, 11:15 PM
If you use published book loads you will be fine with properly loaded ammunition. It is not advisable to go below published book loads with 296/h110. I routinely load 125 grain bullets with 19.4 grains of h110 and have no problems. I have used small pistol, small pistol magnum, and small rifle primers to load these rounds. I haven't blown up my pistols yet. I have used lighter loads as well as maxed out 22.0 grain loads. I just prefer to save a bit of powder and accuracy is quite good with the load I am using. Personally, I would try to find another powder such as HS6 or similar that will give you near the velocity at about half the powder charge. Powder may be hard to find for quite some time and you may choose to conserve what you can while making some noise.

gamestalker
March 24, 2013, 11:17 PM
First off let me say that I have been loading both the 44 mag and .357 mag with H110 / 296 for several decades, and I have never once had a problem with pressures or anything else for that matter. It's a very stable powder when it is not reduced more than 3% below minimum, not 3% below maximum as you stated. The charging range for it is easily 4-6 times what 3% of the maximum would calculate to, so you must have misunderstood the warnings, cause that doesn't calculate accordingly. With charges that broadly range 2.5 grs. to over 3 grains, it is definitely an easy powder to work with, and very forgiving, if not completely undetectable of .1 - .2 gr. deviations in charges.

My experience with it is if you make sure to use magnum primers, don't reduce the published starting charge at all, and use a firm roll crimp, it will provide you with consistent full house magnum loads that will tickle you pink.

GS

soloban
March 24, 2013, 11:52 PM
I use it with 158 gr XTPs in my 6" GP100. Works great and packs a wallop.

JRWhit
March 25, 2013, 07:20 AM
For those loads listed where a starting load is not shown, start 10% below the suggested maximum load and then approach maximums carefully, watching for any sign of pressure (difficult extraction, cratered and flattened or blown primers, and unusual recoil). H110 and Winchester 296 loads should not be reduced more than 3%.

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.
I may well be mistaken, but it is included in instruction on loads that do not have start load data listed, that H110 should be reduced no more than 3% and worked up from there. This is from Hodgdon's website.

Steve in PA
March 25, 2013, 08:29 AM
I love H110. You do not want to know how many pounds oh H110 I have gone through in 22 years of reloading for the .357 and .44 Magnums.

Clark
March 25, 2013, 09:00 AM
Hodgdon does a good job of making up a part number [H110], packaging it, distributing it, maintaining their old published data, and answering my emails.

The only thing I could fault them on is not having a caveat for advanced reloaders and how they successfully down load H110 to 50% loads.

But then maybe advanced reloaders don't need anyone to tell them anything.

LOLBELL
March 25, 2013, 09:27 AM
JRWhit, I guess I'm the only one here that uses 4227, IMR or H. I've used 1 lb of H110, after that I started using IMR4227 and have not regretted it. I get about 50fps less with 4227 but accuracy is much better in 41mag, 44mag, and 45colt and as good in 357mag. Recoil is not as snappy and I don't have to buy magnum primers.

buck460XVR
March 25, 2013, 09:34 AM
H110/W296 is a great powder for legitimate magnum loads in any caliber. Any published load you find should be safe. That said, it works best at the upper end of it's range. In books like Hornady where they start quite low, I recommend you start in the middle as performance on their low end loads is poor. Hodgdon's website data is pretty good in .357.

buck460XVR
March 25, 2013, 09:37 AM
JRWhit, I guess I'm the only one here that uses 4227, IMR or H. I've used 1 lb of H110, after that I started using IMR4227 and have not regretted it. I get about 50fps less with 4227 but accuracy is much better in 41mag, 44mag, and 45colt and as good in 357mag. Recoil is not as snappy and I don't have to buy magnum primers.


I prefer IMR4227 to H110/W296 in the .460mag and in .44mag for the carbines. I still prefer H110/w296 in .357 tho and the .44 revolvers.

eldon519
March 25, 2013, 05:03 PM
Even though the data range can be narrow, it is a pretty safe powder in my opinion. It isn't a spikey powder or anything like that where a tiny charge change makes the gun go from safe to blown apart. Also, even though you hear a lot about going too light, I have violated the 3% rule many atimes with no problem. Even Hodgdon's own data often has more than 3% range despite their "rule", often as high as 10%. I've never had ignition problems.

The only other thing worth noting is that the lighter bullets like 110gr and 125gr can be hard on the forcing cone with H-110. I like it with the 158gr weight.

DC Plumber
March 25, 2013, 05:37 PM
I don't shoot many magnum loads, but if I do, I use 2400 and/or H4227 for my .357mag, 44mag and 454 Casull. I bought a pound of H110 about 12 years ago, didn't like it for the very reason as you and gave it to a friend who is a magnum nut. Nowadays 99.9% of my handgun shooting is with lead bullets and either Universal or 231.

Sorry, I tried, but I don't think I can talk you into it for another 50 or 100 fps either.

Now, economically speaking, have you considered shooting lead with shotgun powders?

A pound of powder goes 3 time further, and lead bullets are WAY less expensive, probably 1/3 as much too. Just throwing that out there.

rg1
March 25, 2013, 05:44 PM
Like Win 296 for 44 Magnum but prefer Accurate Arms #9 for .357 Magnum. You can download it and actually I prefer standard CCI 500's for AA#9 rather than a magnum primer. Best shooting magnum velocity loads I've tried in .357 with AA#9 powder and I've tested Win 296, 2400, and Blue Dot. I shoot AA#9 in both a revolver and Marlin rifle, same data. 13 to 13.5 grains with 158 jacketed bullets mostly Hornady XTP's.

Maj Dad
March 25, 2013, 08:18 PM
296/H110/WC820 has been my full-power powder for 357, 44, and 30 carbine for nearly 50 years. If I want low or mid-range loads I use something else - Unique, BE, 231, Red Dot, etc etc. I have used all kinds of other powders and still have several pounds left of an 8 lb keg of 630 that work great for cast loads in 44 mag & 30 carbine. But for accurate, consistent and optimum performance with full-power loads, it's 296. :cool:

JRWhit
March 25, 2013, 08:19 PM
I don't shoot many magnum loads, but if I do, I use 2400 and/or H4227 for my .357mag, 44mag and 454 Casull. I bought a pound of H110 about 12 years ago, didn't like it for the very reason as you and gave it to a friend who is a magnum nut. Nowadays 99.9% of my handgun shooting is with lead bullets and either Universal or 231.

Sorry, I tried, but I don't think I can talk you into it for another 50 or 100 fps either.

Now, economically speaking, have you considered shooting lead with shotgun powders?

A pound of powder goes 3 time further, and lead bullets are WAY less expensive, probably 1/3 as much too. Just throwing that out there.
I've been searching for my preferred hunting load in magnum, and have been thoroughly enjoying the process, but do load a lot of 38 copper plated light loads for paper punching. Use 231/hp-38, but recently have been using Unique and must say I'm liking the results. Burns cleaner too.
To date I've been using BLUE DOT for the magnums, just seeing what else works and how well.

JRWhit
March 25, 2013, 08:29 PM
First off let me say that I have been loading both the 44 mag and .357 mag with H110 / 296 for several decades, and I have never once had a problem with pressures or anything else for that matter. It's a very stable powder when it is not reduced more than 3% below minimum, not 3% below maximum as you stated. The charging range for it is easily 4-6 times what 3% of the maximum would calculate to, so you must have misunderstood the warnings, cause that doesn't calculate accordingly. With charges that broadly range 2.5 grs. to over 3 grains, it is definitely an easy powder to work with, and very forgiving, if not completely undetectable of .1 - .2 gr. deviations in charges.

My experience with it is if you make sure to use magnum primers, don't reduce the published starting charge at all, and use a firm roll crimp, it will provide you with consistent full house magnum loads that will tickle you pink.

GS
I have noticed like you say how many of the listed starting loads are up to 10% under max.

Hondo 60
March 26, 2013, 01:25 PM
Talk me into H110/Win296 for 357mag

Nope, sorry, I can't.

I tried W296 & just didn't care for the results.
Too much recoil, for what velocity I got.

I tried 2400 & haven't looked back.
It's my favorite 357 Magnum powder.
Not too much recoil, decent velocity & has a very manly boom when fired. :rolleyes:

mdi
March 26, 2013, 01:36 PM
Mebbe I'm just getting old (?) but none of my reloads are near the top end. My .357 Magnum is more accurate and more funner to shoot with mid-range loads, so I don't use H110/W296. There's no easy loads with H110, as they're all nearly balls-to-the-wall type loads. If my .357 ain't powerful enough with my 2400 or Unique, I'll go with my .44 Magnums...

MikeS.
March 26, 2013, 02:47 PM
You'll get no help from me, but I'm a 2400 fan... :D
Me too, 2400 is my goto powder for 357&44 mag loads.

MichigammeDave
March 26, 2013, 03:24 PM
296 burns a little too slow for me to use it in a handgun, but I love it for the carbine! My personal favorite is 22 grains of 296 under a 110gr JHP. Works great in my .357 Rossi levergun.
I also use 2400 in the .44 carbine, for the same reasons. More barrel length gives me a more complete burn.
For handgun use in .357 or .44Mag, I like TiteGroup.

ljnowell
March 26, 2013, 04:07 PM
296 burns a little too slow for me to use it in a handgun, but I love it for the carbine! My personal favorite is 22 grains of 296 under a 110gr JHP. Works great in my .357 Rossi levergun.
I also use 2400 in the .44 carbine, for the same reasons. More barrel length gives me a more complete burn.
For handgun use in .357 or .44Mag, I like TiteGroup.

That makes no sense whatsoever, as far as the practical purpose of a magnum handgun. Titegroup will not produce full magnum velocity. Its a economic powder for target loads, nothing else. 2400 or 296 are used for magnum handguns. The concept of complete burn is irrelevant.

Hondo 60
March 26, 2013, 06:45 PM
ljnowell is correct.
Tite Group is way too fast to develop magnum velocities.

For VERY soft shooting 357s I Do use tite group, but the velocity is in the 950 fps range.
2400 gets up into 1200-1300s

I use 125 gr JHP w/ 16 gr of 2400.

That's mid-range.
If I wanted, I could use a higher charge to get even more velocity.
Max is 17.5

35 Whelen
March 26, 2013, 06:51 PM
You'll get no help from me, but I'm a 2400 fan... :D
You need read no further than this. For magnum loads in my .357 and .44 Special, I find 2400 MUCH more versatile, and I actually have a 4 lb. can of W296. Don't care for it at all.

35W

41 Mag
March 26, 2013, 10:53 PM
Well I have had no issues with it using up several 8# jugs of 296 through the year in my 30 Carbines and 357,41,44, and 454. I figure if they are magnum you might as well load them as such and use them for what they are. I hunt with them all so I want what I can get out of them nice hot and accurate.

If you want to plink use a 22.

It's a good powder as mentioned just stick to the data and roll on.

Dontkillbill
March 26, 2013, 11:12 PM
I love 125 grain hollow points with 296 I use a full load in my 1892 carbine and with 16 inch barrel I get a nice flash :) Its a good load that I can shoot accurately at 100 yards.
I just boughts some hornady 125 grain bullets hollow point. I'll have to get a crono out for shooting it.


For my handgun I go with 158 grain so load is lighter.

Crabby
March 29, 2013, 03:25 PM
I'm new here on thr. But I have an old opinion, I've used many powders for .357 mag over the years. For full power loads I've found nothing better than win296. I use 1 grain less than max listed in my speer# 11 manual and have had good performance out of both revolvers & carbines.btw this is with jacketed bullets. I like unique for lighter loads with lead bullets,

Dontkillbill
March 30, 2013, 02:55 PM
I'm new here on thr. But I have an old opinion, I've used many powders for .357 mag over the years. For full power loads I've found nothing better than win296. I use 1 grain less than max listed in my speer# 11 manual and have had good performance out of both revolvers & carbines.btw this is with jacketed bullets. I like unique for lighter loads with lead bullets,

+1 This is great advise

CPLofMARINES
March 30, 2013, 10:49 PM
Welcome aboard Crabby ! I have not started reloading
Yet, but I have been reading my Lyman 49th and
Keeping close tabs on the posts here and taking
Everything in. I plan to start with .38 Spl then move to
.357 mag and then 44Spl/Mag. A question I have is
I thought (according to what I have read in Lyman's
49th) is that W296 is for heavy bullets in .357 mag. So,
Have you used it for 125 or 158 grn. bullets ?? Or is that
Not recommended ?? Thank you and again welcome.

Semper Fi

ljnowell
March 30, 2013, 10:58 PM
Welcome aboard Crabby ! I have not started reloading
Yet, but I have been reading my Lyman 49th and
Keeping close tabs on the posts here and taking
Everything in. I plan to start with .38 Spl then move to
.357 mag and then 44Spl/Mag. A question I have is
I thought (according to what I have read in Lyman's
49th) is that W296 is for heavy bullets in .357 mag. So,
Have you used it for 125 or 158 grn. bullets ?? Or is that
Not recommend ?? Thank you and again welcome.

Semper Fi


W296 is perfectly fine with any weight bullet in 357 mag. There is load data for practically everything floating around in books or in the web. Same goes for 2400.

SlamFire1
March 31, 2013, 08:45 AM
W296/H110, which are the same powder, is an excellent full power powder. If you want only magnum level loads it will produce excellent groups and velocities.

I do not consider it as flexible as 2400, so I would recommend that powder in the 357.

Smith & Wesson M27-2 6.5” Barrel



158 LSWC Linotype 15.5 W296 3D Cases CCI500

14 Oct 2008 T = 80 F

Ave Vel = 1260
Std Dev = 34
ES = 160.5
High = 1315
Low = 1154
N = 18


158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases Fed 100
4-Sep-05 T = 80 F
Ave Vel = 1245
Std Dev = 22.49
ES = 97.26
High = 1285
Low = 1187
N = 32

158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases CCI primers
9-Oct-05 T = 64 F
Ave Vel = 1273
Std Dev = 44.03
ES = 176.7
High = 1372
Low = 1195
N = 30


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/DSCN1755M27-2.jpg

tightgroup tiger
March 31, 2013, 09:37 AM
I prefer 2400 also. I switched to H110 for a lot of years after starting out with 2400 but went back to it because it is so much more forgiving on lighter loads.

When I went back to it I had forgotten how much I missed it.

hardheart
March 31, 2013, 01:55 PM
That makes no sense whatsoever, as far as the practical purpose of a magnum handgun. Titegroup will not produce full magnum velocity. Its a economic powder for target loads, nothing else. 2400 or 296 are used for magnum handguns. The concept of complete burn is irrelevant.
What is the practical purpose of a magnum handgun? Is there only one, and only one acceptable velocity range?

I use HP38, Unique, Power Pistol, 2400, and 4227, didn't feel like getting pinned to magnum primers.

Crashbox
March 31, 2013, 07:45 PM
I really can't add too much more to this, but H110 is really for full-tilt loads in the .357 and it performs well there IMO. Magnum primers are also a very good idea with this powder. If you like shooting nothing but nuclear-strength .357 rounds, H110 will definitely do the trick.

I still have a pound or two of H110 in stock but I very rarely shoot it; I prefer 2400 for the .357 hotties.

ljnowell
March 31, 2013, 08:23 PM
What is the practical purpose of a magnum handgun? Is there only one, and only one acceptable velocity range?

I use HP38, Unique, Power Pistol, 2400, and 4227, didn't feel like getting pinned to magnum primers.

This thread in particular though is about magnum loads. I only use 2400 myself also, as it has more versatility and does not require a magnum primer. Buy it in 8lb lots.

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