What historical cannon can I build from these if any?


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ApacheCoTodd
March 25, 2013, 12:35 AM
I got these cannon barrels from the estate of a deceased gunsmith and they are committed to being cylindrical of dimension though I can return the muzzles to represent something of historical accuracy.

They are: 14 3/8 inches in length
1 5/16 inches barrel external diameter
2 1/4 inches across the bell-mouth muzzle

The bore on the one finish bored example is 7/8+ inch.

As he was an accomplished smith and they have breech plugs, I assume he intended them to be firing examples though I could find no plans. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I'd like to find out that he was on his way to something with a historical background and will construct the first carriage as such if it turns out to be the case.

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kituwa
March 25, 2013, 12:42 AM
Do you think they may have been intended for making a blunderbuss?

TheOld Man
March 25, 2013, 01:47 AM
Sadly, the plans probably went to the grave with him. :(

7.62 Nato
March 25, 2013, 02:07 AM
I wouldn't try to pass myself off as someone who knows anything about cannons but I find it strange that it is a straight barrel. I don't recall ever seeing one where the breech was not larger diameter. Even most rifle barrels are that way.

ApacheCoTodd
March 25, 2013, 02:46 AM
Do you think they may have been intended for making a blunderbuss?
That one's really got me re-looking at the barrel. I'm going to search through the spares from his shop for clues that this may be the case.

7.62 I couldn't help but wonder at the diameter issue myself as there must have been a lot of stock removed given the muzzle bell. Certainly blunder-bussy as speculated by KITUWA.

BCRider
March 25, 2013, 03:15 AM
Certainly not intended for cannons. They are far too long vs the bore and outer diameters. In addtion there's no trunnions to set into the carraige or base.

So all in all I'm thinking blunderbuss as well.

kBob
March 25, 2013, 10:28 AM
I kind'a like cannons and I think blunder-buss is most likely for all of the above reasons.

kind'a neat what ever it is/was. I wonder if the muzzle ring is a sepperate piece that has been attached to the tube or if he really cut away all that metal the whole length.

It may well be that he got this in trade from someone that knew less about cannons and blunder busch than about operating a lathe.

-kBob

ApacheCoTodd
March 25, 2013, 11:04 AM
I thought about a trunnion ring so spun one up and as the external dimension is tubular, I set it over knurling for a look-see. Doesn't look too bad but that cylindrical exterior still doesn't ring true to me. I even considered slipping on some faux-mass to get a better profile.

I certainly would rather cannon these instead of making 9-10 blunderbusses.

303tom
March 25, 2013, 12:22 PM
I am going to say they are blunderbuss barrels.................

BCRider
March 25, 2013, 06:46 PM
You'd want to at least silver solder the trunnion block to the barrels and use the strong high temp stuff.

There's another reason to simply sell them or build them into blunderbuss'es. As a cannon the flared muzzle crown is going to do it's utmost to ensure really BAD accuracy. This sort of barrel is simply at it's best spraying an area with shot, bits of chain, forks or stray nuts and bolts. And frankly the barrel would simply look WRONG as a cannon.

7.62 Nato
March 25, 2013, 07:24 PM
What about a signal cannon? Weren't these fired without a projectile?

AethelstanAegen
March 25, 2013, 08:05 PM
Those definitely shout blunderbuss, with the shape and dimensions you've listed, I'd be pretty certain that was the original intention. In terms of what historical cannon you can make from them (I assume you mean as miniture reproductions)? None. Unless you plan on completely reshaping the brass, etc. Personally, I'd say built up some blunderbuss'es or go ahead and sell the barrels for people looking to build such a thing. I think it wouldn't be worth the effort trying to convert those into some sort of mini-cannon.

AlexanderA
March 26, 2013, 12:17 AM
Definitely more likely a blunderbuss than a cannon, but still .... that "breechplug" is like nothing that would fit into a stock. Maybe we should think outside the box and not assume that it's a barrel at all. Looks to me like part of a candlestick.

rcmodel
March 26, 2013, 12:30 AM
Looks to me like part of a candlestick. I'd go with that myself!!

It's skinny in all the wrong places for a cannon or blunderbuss barrel of any kind.

The back end holds all the pressure.
And it ain't got a booty on it!

The rusted steel 'breach plug' looks like a light-fixture fitting.

Just because he was a gunsmith doesn't mean he only used his lathe & skill to make gun or cannon barrels.

I BTDT lots of times myself with brass candle sticks, chess pieces, and gear shift knobs when I got bored!

rc

TheRodDoc
March 26, 2013, 10:06 PM
The breach plug looks very correct for a blunderbuss to me.

For a bolt on steel tang or threaded pin like many origanal brass barreled ones used.

181919

ApacheCoTodd
March 27, 2013, 12:01 AM
Thanks for the responses fellas.

A blunderbussing I will go!

303 tom & reddoc Those pics really nail it don't they?

I've sold a couple-three authentic blunderbuss but never really looked too hard at them and it's now a dead certainty that that is where the fella was heading. I was distracted by his attentions to ship modeling in his shop along with the firearms.

limpingbear
March 27, 2013, 12:41 AM
I would say blunderbuss or some kind of swivel cannon. Leaning more toward blunderbuss..

ApacheCoTodd
March 27, 2013, 01:17 AM
Swivel cannon!?
Now that would really be cool if they had just a bit more meat to them and at least one of them might end up as such in any case.
Thanks for that one Limpingbear.

Loyalist Dave
March 27, 2013, 10:11 AM
They don't suggest blunderbuss much at all (imho). Especially with the breech as it appears.

They look like medieval hand gonne (http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/handgonne.html)barrels. Especially if you look at the artword in the medieval drawing in the first link.

Here is another link: handgonne.com (http://www.handgonne.com/)

LD

ApacheCoTodd
March 27, 2013, 12:26 PM
Doggone-it DAVE! Another county heard from and well noted at that. Good call on a very realistic potential for these rascals and an interesting read on your link.
I've certainly got enough to give that a shot (NPI) as well.
These would be the simplest and most basic of end uses for a couple of them.

"ignition by glowing poker wire" Gotta love it!

Thanks, Todd.

4v50 Gary
March 28, 2013, 01:08 AM
Another endorsement for blunderbus. Arrr!

col.lemat
March 28, 2013, 03:18 PM
Candle sticks made from a gun . I had a desk lamp made from three pistols years ago. looked cool on the coffee table

raa-7
March 28, 2013, 07:40 PM
[QUOTE=rcmodel;8833006]I'd go with that myself!!

It's skinny in all the wrong places for a cannon or blunderbuss barrel of any kind.

The back end holds all the pressure.
And it ain't got a booty on it!

The rusted steel 'breach plug' looks like a light-fixture fitting.

Just because he was a gunsmith doesn't mean he only used his lathe & skill to make gun or cannon barrels.

I BTDT lots of times myself with brass candle sticks, chess pieces, and gear shift knobs when I got bored!
Yup, he,s right,no booty :p

raa-7
March 28, 2013, 07:50 PM
I think if I were going to use one of those for a barrel,I would machine it, to put a liner in it.If there's even enough meat there.just a thought.

Bluehawk
March 29, 2013, 12:45 AM
I own a cannon (Daniel's howitzer) and from all I've read; cannon rule-of-thumb is wall thickness should be at least 1/2 the thickness of the bore...what you have doesn't appear to be that.

303tom
March 29, 2013, 12:57 AM
Take my word for it, those are Blunderbuss Barrels................

oldfogey4ever
April 3, 2013, 10:48 PM
Probably are, look like a "shop-made" one-oof, although they don't look like those at http://www.stonewallcreekoutfitters.com/barrels-2/rayle-rifle-barrels/. Pretty interesting though.

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