Ammo shortage


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kkayser
March 25, 2013, 09:27 AM
There must be something more to the ammo shortage than hoarding. A clerk at one of the large chain ammo departments said that he had not seen any ammo shipments come in for for months. On one internet ammo selling site it said that some ammo might be in by November!!! So, if the companies are making ammo, Where is it going????

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HankR
March 25, 2013, 09:40 AM
Hmm, to feed the troll or ...

Panic buying, hoarding, lots of new guns sold the last few months, lots of new gun owners wanting to stock up, "bubble", etc.


I was in Walmart on Friday night, getting some clay pigeons and shotgun shells. The load was a bit unwieldy, so I stopped at the gun counter to re-balance. The ammo shelves were pretty empty, and there were folks there staring at the empty shelves. A clerk came over, thinking I wanted to check out back there (I was heading for the registers in the front of the store) I asked him if they were still getting ammo in, and he said they were getting it same as always, just selling it much faster, even with the "three box" limit. He asked what I was wanting. I told him I'd pick up a couple of bricks of .22 lr next time they had any, and he mentioned that they had just gotten some in that wasn't stocked yet. It was Winchester (I normally get Federal), 1000 round boxes for $46. He brought me out 2-cartons, one of which he opened to show two of the 1000 round boxes. I was going to buy two (he offered all 4, seeming to forget about the three box limit), but when I asked him how much he had he replied just the 4 1000 round boxes he had brought out. I bought one and left three for the next guy, or hopefully the next three guys.

I wonder if anti-gunners are stirring up frenzy on the internet, causing the panic? None of the OPs observations appear to be true, at least around here.

M2 Carbine
March 25, 2013, 10:08 AM
I hang out at the local gun store a lot. They haven't been able to get but a couple cases of ammo (no 9mm or 22) in months.

And like guns, the distributors are also jacking up the price of ammo bad.

The reason?
IMO......the distrust of obama and the democrats, causing MANY people to buy guns who never before had any interest in owning a gun.

I see a lot a lot of those people, old and young, come into the gun store saying, "I want a gun".

nelsonal
March 25, 2013, 10:10 AM
Generally it's essentially already spoken for as backorders. At MSRP, the quandity of ammo demanded exceeds production, only with prices many times MSRP can retaliers hold an inventory of ammunition.

blakeci
March 25, 2013, 10:13 AM
here locally, a guy is selling most of his stash as he is moving out of state, 60,000 rounds of American Eagle 9mm:what:

that's not even including the 10,000 rounds of AE .45 or the 120,000 rounds of .22lr that he is also selling.

there is where some of it is...

...of course it would come up right as I'm broke and can't afford the $380 a 1000 round case of 9mm

kkayser
March 25, 2013, 10:25 AM
That is good to hear. The WalMarts around here (SE Wisconsin) limit purchases to one large box of .22 LR, three small (50) boxes, when they have it. Fleet-Farm, Cabela's, and Gander Mountain also limit to 10 small boxes. I forget how many large boxes. However, if they are only getting 4 large boxes per shipment, that will be sold within hours, perhaps minutes, even at 1 box per sale.

Right now, there is plenty of .22 LR on Gun Broker. Cheap stuff brings about 3X normal prices, better stuff about 2X. Really expensive stuff like Eley, which normally sells for $.35 - .40/round, can still be bought at par. That brings up an interesting question: If I shoot ammo which cost $47.00/1000, but could be sold online for $150.00/1000. how much is my shooting costing me, $47.00/1000 or $150.00/1000?

george d dennis
March 25, 2013, 10:30 AM
Im still wondering about the goverment.
I know people are hoarding it but, I went to one site there wasnt
even percussion caps. I remember in the 70s when we then were rationed
gasoline. Odd and even cars on certain days, We were allowed 3.00
back then while the tankers were waiting to come in and they wouldnt
let them. The goverment said dont worry when the alaskan pipe line
is finished we will be all set. Kind of reminds me of the now ammo
and reloading supplies shortage. Once they got the price of gas up
there was plenty.We shall see with the ammo. Seems like this and
all the anti gun stuff started right after Newtown. A place i would
pheasant hunt every year till the yuppies started to move in .

Arkansas Paul
March 25, 2013, 11:08 AM
A clerk at one of the large chain ammo departments said that he had not seen any ammo shipments come in for for months. On one internet ammo selling site it said that some ammo might be in by November!!!

He was full of BS.
Wall World gets shipments often, as do other retailers. Even my local pawn/gun shop gets weekly shipments of ammunition. It may not be all they want, and it doesn't last very long, but they're still getting it in.

kkayser
March 25, 2013, 01:09 PM
It may be a little hasty to say that "He is full of BS." He said that he had not seen any come in. I could be that the shelves are stocked on a different shift, and by the beginning of his shift, all ammo has been sold. It looks like hoarding is the reason for the shortage. People who have not shot in years are buying all they can get, simply because it is in short supply. I'm sure clerks in gun departments buy all they can get and notify their friends whenever it is on the shelves.

I got a call from a friend whose "Buddy" told him that Cabella's was getting 1,000,000 rounds in "tomorrow". I asked him to call me if any .22 LR was available. No call. No ammo at Cabella's.

Oklacoyotekiller
March 25, 2013, 02:04 PM
Guy on gunbroker has 25,000 of eley 22lr. Buy it now 999 for 5,000. Wal mart in chandler,ok ha about 6 bxs of wwb 45.

Killian
March 25, 2013, 07:24 PM
I saw some .22 Magnum Winchester at Walmart in Tupelo Mississippi about 2 days ago. A few boxes of .45ACP and some .40. I'm sure it's gone by now.

Where is the ammo going? Right now the majority of it is going to people who ordered a couple of cases back in December. You get 1 million people ordering 1000 rounds (1 case), which, if you are in panic mode really isn't all that much then it works out to over a billion rounds. That's if 1 million people buy 1 case. Bump it to 5 million people? Does that seem unrealistic? Maybe. Let's assume they bought 2 or 3 cases instead. 1 million people buying 3 cases of ammo. 3 billion rounds. Now lets get REALLLLY crazy. Let's assume 5 million people ordered 3 cases. 15 billion rounds on back order. Already bought, already paid for, just waiting on delivery.

That's my opinion about what is happening with ammo right now.

frankenstein406
March 25, 2013, 07:32 PM
Seems like ammo only lasts for a day so you have to be on top of it.

Killian
March 25, 2013, 07:36 PM
Seems like ammo only lasts for a day so you have to be on top of it.

I arrived at Walmart at around 8:30AM and the clerk was still opening cases to put on the shelf at Tupelo Walmart. I'm sure that by 11 or 12 noon all of the boxes of .40 caliber and .45 caliber he had were gone. The .22 magnum, he had a lot of. 3 cases at least. At 3 boxes per customer, it would take about 20 people to empty it again. So it might have lasted til the end of the day. Maybe.

jim243
March 25, 2013, 07:57 PM
Interesting, if Home Land Security purchases 103,000,000 rounds a year, I wonder how many Walmart orders per year??? With 8,970 stores in the U.S. if each bought 50,000 rounds a year (4,167 per month) that would come to 448,500,000 rounds or just under a half a billion rounds. And that's just for Walmart.

Jim

justice06rr
March 27, 2013, 02:18 AM
It seems a lot of these ammo shortage threads keep getting locked, so I'm "in before the lock" as they say. (lets hope not and lets try to keep this one civil and on track)

I'm sure there are multiple factors that continually feed the shortage. From people who have bought thousands of rounds (what some call 'hoarding'), to people camping out for hours for ammo to be stocked on the shelves, etc.

The most common cause? its probably panic buying. I don't think people who buy all these ammo shoot that much to begin with, although some do shoot thousands of rounds per month. If you were a shooter that competes or just shoots thousands of rounds per month, one would think you'd buy in bulk online instead or reload your own.

So IMHO the same people buy up most of the ammo that gets shipped to Walmart/Dick's etc. I will put myself as an example; I normally only buy maybe 2 or 3 boxes a month of ammo regardless of the posted limit or if I have extra money. Now if another individual buys thousands of rounds a month, then multiply that a hundred-fold, there is one of your causes for a shortage.

What I don't understand is how 22lr has still been out of stock although I've already seen .223 and 7.62x39 ammo in stock locally.

nathan
March 27, 2013, 02:26 AM
THe majority who fall in line are the ones who want to make some money . Umemployment is still at an all time high.

frankenstein406
March 27, 2013, 02:52 AM
i wonder if the ammo companys had stock on hand or were just filling orders as needed?

Queen_of_Thunder
March 27, 2013, 07:29 AM
Seems like ammo only lasts for a day so you have to be on top of it.
Thats true in my area. In fact I'm up an d getting ready to head out to my local Academy to stand in line with the hope I'm first in line which gives me first refusal on whatever ammo they get in. I will say after nearly 3 months of doing this it s becoming old. Of course I've made many new friends waiting for Academy to open and that includes Academy staff too. So there has been something more important than ammo to come out of this waiting in line.

Queen_of_Thunder
March 27, 2013, 07:53 AM
It seems a lot of these ammo shortage threads keep getting locked, so I'm "in before the lock" as they say. (lets hope not and lets try to keep this one civil and on track)

I'm sure there are multiple factors that continually feed the shortage. From people who have bought thousands of rounds (what some call 'hoarding'), to people camping out for hours for ammo to be stocked on the shelves, etc.

The most common cause? its probably panic buying. I don't think people who buy all these ammo shoot that much to begin with, although some do shoot thousands of rounds per month. If you were a shooter that competes or just shoots thousands of rounds per month, one would think you'd buy in bulk online instead or reload your own.

So IMHO the same people buy up most of the ammo that gets shipped to Walmart/Dick's etc. I will put myself as an example; I normally only buy maybe 2 or 3 boxes a month of ammo regardless of the posted limit or if I have extra money. Now if another individual buys thousands of rounds a month, then multiply that a hundred-fold, there is one of your causes for a shortage.

What I don't understand is how 22lr has still been out of stock although I've already seen .223 and 7.62x39 ammo in stock locally.
With regards to your 22lr question I would guess the following:

1. Price
2. New shooters bought 22lr guns as their first guns.
3. Those that didn't have a 22lr firearm have added one and thus need ammo for it?
4. Seeing the shortages develop 22lr shooters added to their inventory of ammo causing a worseing of supply.
5. Of course with the above 4 reasons some saw a way to make money and began to buy up what they
could.
6. The resulting shortage has turned 22lr into a commodity that can be used for barter. Person A has 22lr but needs 9mm while Person B has 9mm but needs 22lr. The trade is made.
7. People become scared and after 3 months of shortages they worry and shift into hording mode which BTW is a natural response. Also the hording will continue to spread to others as the ammo shortage continues. I fully expect that homes will be broken into to secure an item that has become the equivalent of cash and as impossble to track as cash is.

So please secure your ammo.

22-rimfire
March 27, 2013, 08:27 AM
22LR is in short supply because it is the most popular caliber and consumers that shoot have noticed that there is little to none available. The gunshops who have some and are charging a premium also feed into this to sell their higher priced ammo. So, when consumes do in fact find some 22LR available at normal pricing, shooters buy all they can afford or is available and that can be many rounds of 2LR. Hence, the continued shortage in that caliber.

One of the local Walmarts say they get ammunition in every week (but not as much), but it is sold very quickly.

I wonder if this shortage will in fact cause even casual or infrequent 22LR shooters into stockpiling.

Sauer Grapes
March 27, 2013, 08:37 AM
I spoke with a young fella behind the counter yesterday at WM. He said they put orders in every week. Sometimes they get some, sometimes they don't.

mrvco
March 27, 2013, 09:03 AM
The LGS's around here that have ammo priced to account for market conditions are able to maintain inventory. Sure it's expensive, but you only buy what you need since it doesn't make sense to hoard it or resell it at gun shows at those prices.

The hoarders and ammo-oligarchs are finding ways around Walmart's 3-box limit and they just keep sucking up the supply at Walmart's artificially low prices.

Pricing needs to be set at the intersection of the supply AND demand curves for the market to work efficiently. Not at some historically comfortable price that causes demand to constantly outstrip supply.

Batty67
March 27, 2013, 10:16 AM
So, is 22LR the most in demand/hard to obtain ammunition these days?

I have about 7k so perhaps I'll trade 1-2k for some 45ACP.

This too shall pass, but probably not for another few months at this rate. I think mini-hoarding is the blame. Everybody (myself included) seems to be bending over backwards to snap up any reasonably priced ammo on the (probably correct) presumption that the price will only go up...

Queen_of_Thunder
March 27, 2013, 12:55 PM
Yes prices will go up as the base demand has increased due to new shooters. I fear if we dont see some serious increase in supply prices will skyocket and hording will be every shooters response.

silicosys4
March 27, 2013, 01:22 PM
Just picked up a case of 7.62x39 for $230 today. It's around but marked up a bit from where it was, we will see if it stays there. I really don't think the increase in demand will be permanent. It will last until people have their stockpile then everyone will chill and demand will be at or slightly increased from where it was 6 months ago.

What I'm seeing as the longest term shortage is once fired brass for us reloaders in non-LE calibers. People aren't going to the ranges to shoot their 44 magnums, so those ranges aren't picking up and reselling brass online, so I'm having a hard time finding it. I don't see that changing until well after the ammo supply and demand stabilizes.

crestoncowboy
March 27, 2013, 02:21 PM
maybe in some areas this started after Newtown, but here 22 was gone for months before that. 9 40 and 45 were there but only a few boxes of maybe 1 or 2 brands, but there. It has certainly gotten worse but 22 was non existent before Dec. 14. my family usually buys me bricks of 22 for Christmas and my bday, last year they all were asking me what I wanted from our Halloween party on, because no one had 22 ammo. were people really hording before then, or was production efforts diverted to the more expensive calibers?

22-rimfire
March 27, 2013, 08:05 PM
What I'm seeing as the longest term shortage is once fired brass for us reloaders in non-LE calibers.

Yes, but you can buy new brass.

chrisTx
March 27, 2013, 08:08 PM
The election results started it, but then it was exacerbated by the shooting. We sort of got hit with a double whammy.

frankenstein406
March 27, 2013, 08:46 PM
seemed like 22 would sell out before this on sales but would be instock in a couple weeks. I'm guessing they have been behind for awhile but were pumping it out soon enough that not many people realized it.

herkyguy
March 28, 2013, 08:35 AM
It's coming back. slowly, but it's coming back. 2 LGS's had .223 in stock yesterday. independence and PMC for $12-$14 per box. i picked up a few boxes even with the markup and left a few for the next guy.

hope to dust off the AR sometime this weekend.

Queen_of_Thunder
March 28, 2013, 09:02 AM
While looking at my ammo self I saw a box of Federal 9mm ammo I had bought in January. The price was $11.80 for a box of 50. Thats about 23 cents a round. Yesterday I paid 28 cents a round for 9mm from my local Academy Sports store. I can't complain though as 9mm is as rare as a honest politican in these parts. Lets hope that they can get 9mm on a regular basis but its been a hit or miss situation in my area. The 50 round boxes of 45acp are going for 58 cents a round when they get it. When it comes to 22lr,well thats harder to find than 9mm.

IMTHDUKE
March 28, 2013, 09:24 AM
At WM, you just gota be there at the right time. I went by Monday afternoon...had 3 boxes 250 rds...9mm. 2 boxes 250 rds .40 sw. Two boxes 50 rds...9mm.

I took one 250 rds or 9mm, one box 50 rds ..9mm and one 250 box of .40sw.


I then came back next week same time...the had 3 boxes .380...I got them.

So, right now its a matter of timming.

David E
March 28, 2013, 09:32 AM
The election results started it, but then it was exacerbated by the shooting. We sort of got hit with a double whammy.

I didn't notice any change locally following the election and I was watching for it. But the shooting was only 5 weeks later, immediately followed by their antigun/banning talk.

tarosean
March 28, 2013, 09:41 AM
There is an ammo shortage? First Ive heard of it...

Jonah71
March 28, 2013, 11:34 AM
Nothing at all around here except an occasional box of .357 mag and .38 spec. Forget finding 9mm, 40 cal., or .22lr. I'm down to 150 rnds of 9mm and 750 of 22lr. Glad I bought 45acp on sale a couple of months ago. At the local gun shop the ammo doesn't make it to the shelves. You have to pretty much be on a "preferred" customer list and get there when you get a call letting you know the weekly shipment has arrived. Just a handfull of people are buying all of it.

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