Former Arizona Mayor candidate drawing fire for plan for free shotguns.


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Lo-Fi
March 29, 2013, 08:14 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/28/plan-to-hand-out-free-shotguns-in-tucson-stirs-debate/

Guy is using the Armed Citizen Project model and has $12,000 to spend.

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kwguy
March 29, 2013, 08:25 AM
Well, that's pretty neat. Of course, the negative people are always there. Ya know, I wonder when they will quit living in the world of the theoretical, 2nd grade logic that 'less guns are better'. It's been already been shown that that's bs.

Plus, I thought that many of those folks would LOVE the idea of free stuff. They don't complain about when taxes are used for free phones or health care, but don't like it when donations are used to give people free stuff? Hmmm :scrutiny:

If I didn't know better, I'd almost think they were not being consistent...

btg3
March 29, 2013, 08:58 AM
Implementation of the Armed Citizen Project is an opportunity to again demonstrate whether crime goes up or down when law-abiding people are armed. Whether mainstream media reports the results remains to be seen. This is definitely worth tracking in the years ahead.

beatledog7
March 29, 2013, 09:48 AM
If everyone had a doubled-barreled shotgun and two rounds, crime would utterly cease. Just ask Joe Biden.

PabloJ
March 29, 2013, 09:52 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/28/plan-to-hand-out-free-shotguns-in-tucson-stirs-debate/

Guy is using the Armed Citizen Project model and has $12,000 to spend.
With proper training it's worth a try. It beats doing same things that haven't worked for many years.:rolleyes:

Carl N. Brown
March 29, 2013, 10:06 AM
I agree with beatledog7, Joe Biden said the proper response is to step out of your house and fire two shots from a double barrel shotgun. What's the beef?*










*That's red for sarcasm. :evil:

akv3g4n
March 29, 2013, 10:46 AM
So he's working to ensure that the most vulnerable and at risk people in his state are able to defend themselves. They still need a background check and get free training on proper handling of the firearm. How could someone have an issue with this?

It isn't even an EBR or handgun they are giving out. It's a Biden approved shotgun (like others have said).:banghead:

Ryanxia
March 29, 2013, 10:57 AM
Epic. I support his plan. And to the person that commented in the article 'why doesn't he pass them out in his own neighborhood?' I bet he would but crime probably isn't as much of an issue. Start off where it can do some real good.

Not that I agree with all this government spending, but imagine a free 'healthcare like' system where government would supply each citizen who did not own a gun with 1 free rifle (say even a Mosin Nagant) and some basic training. :D And yes there is of course joining the military :P

akv3g4n
March 29, 2013, 02:33 PM
would supply each citizen who did not own a gun with 1 free rifle (say even a Mosin Nagant)

I get your point (inexpensive rifle) but I don't know if I want people in an urban environment using a Mosin for self defense:what:

r1derbike
March 29, 2013, 02:42 PM
I get your point (inexpensive rifle) but I don't know if I want people in an urban environment using a Mosin for self defense:what:I agree. I'd need at least 10 Mosin Nagants and a big family who knows how to use them. I'm wondering if our government is getting geared-up for urban warfare in the usual suspect gang infested cities?

It's been out of control for years. Something has to be done. Oh! Something already is being done; law-abiding citizens are being the whipping boys for urban crime and mass murderers, by our administration trying to disarm us, and reduce our means of self defense. What was I thinking? Carry on.

BryanDavis
March 29, 2013, 07:11 PM
http://entertainment.verizon.com/news/read.php?ps=1010&rip_id=%3CDA5AL3180%40news.ap.org%3E&news_id=19544885&src=most_popular_viewed&page=1 (Another link to the same story, has a better picture, does Not include the "political firestorm" angle.)


Programs like these are how we take back the offensive. It cannot always be about "I want to keep my guns! I want to keep my guns!" It cannot be about merely preventing gun control. It has to be about what we want. Not what we don't want.

Guns have to be part of the solution. Reaching out to the most disadvantaged segments of society and providing them with effective self-defense is a good start to confronting the tide of gun control.

Free firearms education to the disadvantaged would be another way to help confront gun control. Sex education is standard highschool curriculum, why aren't guns? Hell, as it stands firearms and ammunition are heavily taxed, they shouldn't be. Federal and state subsidies should help pay the way, (not for some people's extensive collections mind you, but when there is a Need, as gun control proponents are so quick to jump on the "No Need" button.

The point is that gun control has been tried (the 1994 AWB), it failed, (Columbine) and that new solutions to mass shootings and common crime should be tried, like the NRA's idea of having armed guards in schools or this idea (Kyle Coplen's idea) of arming the disadvantaged.

If it had been anyone other than the NRA purporting that idea it would have been better received by the mainstream media. If This idea had even the scent of the NRA on it, it would probably be even more villified by the media. I am very glad Shaun McClusky decided to move on this, and did so almost entirely on his own.

kwguy
March 29, 2013, 09:15 PM
The point is that gun control has been tried (the 1994 AWB), it failed, (Columbine) and that new solutions to mass shootings and common crime should be tried, like the NRA's idea of having armed guards in schools or this idea (Kyle Coplen's idea) of arming the disadvantaged.

If it had been anyone other than the NRA purporting that idea it would have been better received by the mainstream media. If This idea had even the scent of the NRA on it, it would probably be even more villified by the media. I am very glad Shaun McClusky decided to move on this, and did so almost entirely on his own.

Agreed. Even before the 94 AWB and Columbine, gun control has been shown to be a failure.

It's a shame that as soon as the NRA's name becomes affiliated with something, the media jumps on board to vilify that something. It's like a jr. high school popularity contest or something. Like if the kid at the back of the classroom that nobody likes comes up with a good idea, and the popular kids, along with the 'class clown' just shouts him down. Just because they don't like him. Because maybe he rides a dirt bike to school or something. It's so stupid, but it's even stupider to see the very same behavior in media and politics, with supposed adults.

Stuff like this changes that. Hopefully.

Texan Scott
March 29, 2013, 09:36 PM
For $12,000, he might get what? 35-40 shotguns?

Sounds like he needs a corporate sponsor or two... maybe not Remington (they don't make money by giving away shotguns), but companies that make accessories for the 870. Just hand out a flyer with each gun.

btg3
March 29, 2013, 09:55 PM
...has been tried... it failed... new solutions...should be tried
Failed solutions are proof that either the problem is not understood or that the symptoms can't be managed.
Generally in problem solving, trying solutions one-at-a-time is poor methodology.

The first step in good problem solving is to agree on what the problem is.

Isn't it obvious that both sides are not trying to solve mass shootings?

BryanDavis
March 30, 2013, 04:58 PM
Failed solutions are proof that either the problem is not understood or that the symptoms can't be managed.
Generally in problem solving, trying solutions one-at-a-time is poor methodology.

The first step in good problem solving is to agree on what the problem is.

Isn't it obvious that both sides are not trying to solve mass shootings?

"Trying solutions one-at-a-time is poor methodology"?

What is your approach then? Try everything at once and hope something sticks? Like throwing spaghetti at a wall? How do you know what worked and what didn't then?

You said yourself:

Implementation of the Armed Citizen Project is an opportunity to again demonstrate whether crime goes up or down when law-abiding people are armed. Whether mainstream media reports the results remains to be seen. This is definitely worth tracking in the years ahead.

Implying that you believe that the results of this project are indeed trackable. Implying that the idea is sound as is it's implementation. Doesn't that contradict your later statement?

Kingcreek
March 30, 2013, 06:01 PM
Free Gun Zones are a much better option than Gun Free Zones. They need some signs.

Starship1st
March 31, 2013, 11:12 AM
Shaun McClusky has been given a hard time; even from many of the GOP here. Responsible citizens support what he is trying to do.:cool:

btg3
March 31, 2013, 06:46 PM
"Trying solutions one-at-a-time is poor methodology"? What is your approach then? Try everything at once and hope something sticks? Like throwing spaghetti at a wall? How do you know what worked and what didn't then?
Factors at Sandy Hook involved high cap guns, a shooter with a mental condition, a target-rich gun-free zone. You are correct that the one solution which was tried nearly 20rys ago failed. Suppose also in 1994 that 20 states had implemented armed school security and another 20 states had prevented mentally incompetents from accessing firearms. Just sayin'...

My approach? First state the problem. Has that been done? Is the problem gun violence, 2A rights, gun control, government control -- there are definitely symptoms of one or more problems -- but agreeing on the problem to be solved does not serve all political interests. Thus it is a power struggle rather than a problem to be solved. And if the problem(s) were solved, certain political interests would be ill-served. My expectation is low that good methodology would be invoked.

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