7.62 x 54 who shoots this?


PDA






JohnnyK
March 30, 2013, 10:29 AM
I know of the Mosin nagant and PSL... but with all the cheap 7.62 x 54r out there (compared to .308) what other firearms shoot this? I'm getting tempted to buy a new rifle. one with greater capacity than 10 rounds... thanks... Johnny

If you enjoyed reading about "7.62 x 54 who shoots this?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
greenr18
March 30, 2013, 10:29 AM
Dragunovs, Romaks... not much else... PKMs?

Sebastian the Ibis
March 30, 2013, 11:10 AM
pkm. look up trents thread.

Steel Horse Rider
March 30, 2013, 11:12 AM
Dragunov's are great fun to shoot too!

Ryanxia
March 30, 2013, 11:14 AM
They make a VEPR in 7.62x54r :D

firesky101
March 30, 2013, 11:22 AM
svt's certainly do, but I don't shoot the cheap corrosive through mine. pain in the neck to clean. I would absolutely love to have a winchester russian contract lever action.

ball3006
March 30, 2013, 12:03 PM
Russian surplus makes the best fireball out of the short Mosin rifles. I shoot it when I go to the range and end up on a bench next to bubba and his multi thousand dollar rifle.....hehehe....chris3

BCRider
March 30, 2013, 12:47 PM
The surplus ammo might be cheap but that's about its only virtue. It's not the most consistent ammo by a long shot. And when you have a lack of consistency you end up with poor accuracy.

Because the surplus ammo uses a copper washed mild steel jacket it also seems to copper foul the bore rather quickly. At least I know that on my Mosins the bore needs frequent cleaning with a copper solvent and that it becomes very fouled after even a few shots once clean.

If you simply want to reduce your shooting cost then forget about the cheap military surplus ammo. Instead get yourself into reloading your own ammo. With a little practice and care you'll soon be able to reload match grade accracy ammo for only a few pennys per round more than what it costs to buy the cheap milsurp stuff.

morcey2
March 30, 2013, 02:45 PM
Another one that shoots it is the 1895 Winchester lever action. 7.62x54R and 303 British were two of the many chamberings in which it came. I'd love to get one of them in 7.62x54R, but they're a little hard to find and rather expensive. 300,000 were produced, but I don't know how many are still around. It's a lever action with a charger guide and can take a bayonet. What more could you want? (At least for a collector.)

Matt

InkEd
March 30, 2013, 02:50 PM
Except you can't find brass, bullets or primers for popular calibers. :rolleyes:

The ammo is 7.62x54r is cheap and 5.45x39 is too. Problem is anything you would want to shoot either from is ridiculous priced right now. Even $95 Mosins are going for $200.

Adam123
March 30, 2013, 03:12 PM
7.62 x 54 who shoots this?

I shoot 54R...

VEPR 7.62x54R

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8088/8495732587_4114da5337_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8495703879_aceb557842_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8373/8495730393_548f1ae232_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8226/8495696787_fda7704638_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8242/8496800164_37ebd72c92_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8528/8496839852_ea3b1fd297_c.jpg

theotherwaldo
March 30, 2013, 05:37 PM
My Finn M39 COULD be fired with that cheap stuff, but I like and respect the gun too much.

-And this is a case where ten rounds is just right!

meanmrmustard
March 30, 2013, 05:43 PM
I shoot 54R...

VEPR 7.62x54R

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8088/8495732587_4114da5337_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8495703879_aceb557842_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8373/8495730393_548f1ae232_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8226/8495696787_fda7704638_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8242/8496800164_37ebd72c92_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8528/8496839852_ea3b1fd297_c.jpg
That thing is a beast!

Loosenock
March 30, 2013, 05:53 PM
I think a single shot Handy Rifle style of rifle chambered in 54R would sell like hot cakes.

'loose

aka108
March 30, 2013, 06:07 PM
I owned Mosin type rifles for a good number of years. Sold all several years ago. Now if you ever run across 7.62x54R ammo made in China, buy it. I had cases of the stuff and it shot great. Dead on with the Finn M39. Copper jacketed and copper cases. I consigned 3 cases out with my gunsmith and it sat around for about a year. People were buying the Russian stuff but were not interested in the China product. Finally one guy bought a can. Next day in came in bought the other two. Told the smith it was the best stuff he had ever run thru his Mosins.

BHP FAN
March 30, 2013, 06:25 PM
I like the 7.62x39 myself.

zoom6zoom
March 30, 2013, 06:34 PM
It's a great round. We didn't always have cheap surplus. Back when I bought my first Mosin, the only ammo available was Norma at near a buck a round.

I've got plenty of choices I can shoot this in. PSL, SVT-40, VEPR which is currently being modified to a Dragunov clone. Not going to try to count my bolt actions in this caliber. Oh, here's a fun one... Finnish M28/76.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/zoom6zoom/gun%20stuff/Collection/FinnishM28-76.jpg

Ignition Override
March 30, 2013, 08:49 PM
BCRider:
It's impossible for me to figure that reloading 7.62x54R would be cheaper than buying surplus in the US, even months Before the panic hit.

About a year ago, an 8-lb. jug of IMR 4064 at a gun show in the south was about $160.
If really cheap bullets Again became available with powder at normal prices, then it is possible for people with lucky connections.

7.62 Nato
March 30, 2013, 09:34 PM
Norinco NDM86 (Dragunov)
SVT40

Jackal
March 30, 2013, 10:53 PM
Grab a Finn M39. Who needs another x54 when its the best?

Aaron1100us
March 30, 2013, 10:54 PM
I do

182106

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/31/e3umanus.jpg



Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2

JohnnyK
March 30, 2013, 11:14 PM
nice vepr adam123!!!

BCRider
March 31, 2013, 01:08 AM
Ignition Overide, I think you misread what I wrote. I didn't say it was cheaper to reload. Just not more than a small amount more.

I don't know the prices in the US when it's not in panic mode but up here my SPAM cans of milsurp cost me 39 cents each delived to my hot little hands.

The cost for reloaded ammo, brass cost not included because it can last so long, is currently 24 cents for a gas checked cast bullet or 30 cents for a jacketed bullet, 4 cents for a primer and somewhere around 20 cents for powder. That's 48 to 50 cents per round for reloaded. And given that my reloaded rounds would be like custom match grade consistency compared to the milsurp quality I'd say that the extra 9 to 12 cents per round is money well spent.

meanmrmustard
March 31, 2013, 07:57 AM
Grab a Finn M39. Who needs another x54 when its the best?
We'll...best bolt gun? Yup.

Hard not to smile while banging away on a nice vepr though.

Ian
March 31, 2013, 04:08 PM
It's good for some belt fed guns - I run 7.62x54R in my Vickers. Way, WAY cheaper than .303. I have a big stash of Czech surplus, which was corrosive but high quality.

hang fire
March 31, 2013, 04:49 PM
My Finn M39 COULD be fired with that cheap stuff, but I like and respect the gun too much.

-And this is a case where ten rounds is just right!
Good grief, what is the problem with shooting corrosive ammo? If corrosive ammo is the evil so many make it out to be, after over 100 years of use, there would not be a single Russian or Eastern Bloc firearm with anything even resembling a rifled bore left.

Shooting ammo with corrosive primers does no more damage that the most expensive non-corrosive ammo. It is the residual salts left after firing that can do harm, not the actual firing.

It is the lazy and ignorant shooter's who give corrosive ammo a bad name. Too lazy, or ignorant, to realize all they have to do is clean the damn thing.

It only takers a couple patches saturated with H2o (AKA plain water) and a few passes, followed by regular cleaning to negate the problem resulting from said corrosive ammo.

unknwn
March 31, 2013, 10:47 PM
When I gave the boy an M39 a year or so ago, I really would have preferred to see the ammo budget spent on reloading materials, but when the Romanian surplus we found shot so well, and cost less than $400 for 1500 or so rounds at the time, I opted to teach him effective corrosive ammo clean-up (an admirable lesson If I say so myself) instead.

ObsidianOne
March 31, 2013, 11:32 PM
The surplus ammo might be cheap but that's about its only virtue. It's not the most consistent ammo by a long shot. And when you have a lack of consistency you end up with poor accuracy.

Because the surplus ammo uses a copper washed mild steel jacket it also seems to copper foul the bore rather quickly. At least I know that on my Mosins the bore needs frequent cleaning with a copper solvent and that it becomes very fouled after even a few shots once clean.

If you simply want to reduce your shooting cost then forget about the cheap military surplus ammo. Instead get yourself into reloading your own ammo. With a little practice and care you'll soon be able to reload match grade accracy ammo for only a few pennys per round more than what it costs to buy the cheap milsurp stuff.

The surplus 7.62x54r is of course, desired for its cheaper price. It has been fairly consistant in my experience and my 91/30 does not suffer from accuracy problems.

While you can reload 54r for cheaper than non corrosive, chances are you won't get close to reloading them for .27 cents a piece like surplus.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

stubbicatt
April 1, 2013, 08:30 AM
It's good for some belt fed guns - I run 7.62x54R in my Vickers. Way, WAY cheaper than .303. I have a big stash of Czech surplus, which was corrosive but high quality.
+1 on the Czech silver tip, laquered case, ammo. Not so much the copper washed stuff. One of them blew up my PSL.

I shot about 150 of these through my SVT 40 yesterday, and what a magnificent day of fun. Plenty accurate for plinking from 70 to 300 yards. This is just a fantastic cartridge and an elegant rifle to shoot it in.

HoosierQ
April 1, 2013, 11:23 AM
Winchester Model 1895 Russian Musket was the most common varient of the 1895. Shoots 7.62x54R. I'd love one of those!

ldlfh7
April 8, 2013, 06:05 PM
I shoot the corrosive surplus stuff all the time out of a 91/30. Everyone complains about corrosive ammo being so bad but it really is no big deal. Had my mosin for 4 years now and the bore looks like new. Soak it with windex then clean as you normally would. I can hit a soda can at 100 yards all day long with the mil surplus.

Cosmoline
April 8, 2013, 06:39 PM
There are a LOT of different kinds of 54R surplus around. Some is nasty stuff like the Albanian. Some is very nice like the Polish. Most folks don't know the difference so the prices tend to be the same.

foghornl
April 9, 2013, 02:11 PM
The "heavy ball" stuff is LOTZA FUN in my M-44 Carbine :D :D :D:evil:

Mustanir
April 10, 2013, 05:30 AM
Guys check this out

http://www.thegunforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=681

adaptandovercome
April 10, 2013, 05:54 AM
I shoot exclusively surplus 7.62x54 and I have no problems just clean after. As far as reloading I might in the future but I already reload a lot of pistol because that's what I mosly take to the range. The corrosive is getting higher and-higher round here so might be a good idea in the future.

Deer_Freak
April 10, 2013, 07:08 AM
I don't shoot surplus ammo. Most of the surplus ammo on the market is under 150 gr. The 91/30 is rifled to shoot 200 gr ammo. I do shoot modern Russian ammo. 203 gr Brown Bear ammo shoots the best in my tests. Prvi Partisan is the most accurate but they don't manufacture soft point ammo. The 7.62 x 54r with 203 gr soft point ammo hits like a shotgun slug, it puts deer down on the spot. After the first couple days of hunting here in NC deer seldom venture far from dense, impenetrable cover. If the deer even runs 50 yards or so your chances of recovering the deer drop dramatically.

morcey2
April 10, 2013, 09:27 AM
Prvi Partisan is the most accurate but they don't manufacture soft point ammo.

PPU makes both 150 and 180 grain soft point rounds in 7.62x54R. It can be a little trick to find, but I've seen both at Cabelas, among other places.

Matt

hang fire
April 10, 2013, 12:03 PM
Guys check this out

http://www.thegunforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=681
Must be registered for access.

grimjaw
April 10, 2013, 12:32 PM
IMHO, even though there are other platforms avaialble, the Mosin is the best gun to use for cheap 7.62x54R. I was always happier hitting targets at 300-450 yards with my $100 gun and $0.13/round ammo (this was a few years ago, obviously) than I was with cleaning a more expensive gun and not getting better results.

tyeo098
April 10, 2013, 01:13 PM
I find the lack of pancakes in this thread disturbing.

Build in progress:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s249/tyeo098/20130402_235431_zpsbf8d7997.jpg

grimjaw
April 10, 2013, 04:57 PM
OK, I would say I stand corrected, but that DP28 would be fun to shoot in any caliber ;)

clem
April 10, 2013, 05:01 PM
i shoot 54r...

Vepr 7.62x54r

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8088/8495732587_4114da5337_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8495703879_aceb557842_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8373/8495730393_548f1ae232_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8226/8495696787_fda7704638_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8242/8496800164_37ebd72c92_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8528/8496839852_ea3b1fd297_c.jpg
me like!

meanmrmustard
April 10, 2013, 10:21 PM
I don't shoot surplus ammo. Most of the surplus ammo on the market is under 150 gr. The 91/30 is rifled to shoot 200 gr ammo. I do shoot modern Russian ammo. 203 gr Brown Bear ammo shoots the best in my tests. Prvi Partisan is the most accurate but they don't manufacture soft point ammo. The 7.62 x 54r with 203 gr soft point ammo hits like a shotgun slug, it puts deer down on the spot. After the first couple days of hunting here in NC deer seldom venture far from dense, impenetrable cover. If the deer even runs 50 yards or so your chances of recovering the deer drop dramatically.
Agreed.

203 gr. is the better weight for sure. It kills deer deader than Caesar.

Lj1941
April 11, 2013, 11:29 AM
I also see no problem in shooting the corrosive Commie-Bloc ammo. My 1st high powered rifle was an 03A3 back when the WW2 surplus ball was the cheapest ammo available.I learned early on that hot soapy water was all that was needed to keep the old war horse happy. I am all set up to hand-load the Ruskie 762X54R lacking only re-loadable brass & proper projectiles to make it profitable. Until the time comes that I get sufficient components to hand-load this fine caliber,I will continue to shoot from my "Spam can" stock.:)

Ignition Override
April 11, 2013, 03:48 PM
BCRider: True, I misread the info. That looks like a nice value.

Even before the panic began in the US, it was very difficult, if at all, to locate cheap bullets for my Enfields or .308 for the FR8s with no pull marks, consisting of s lateral slice, or cut.

How often do normal Russian MN 91/30s shoot 5" groups or less from 100 yards, with no tweaking of the stock etc?

ford8nr
April 12, 2013, 05:57 AM
The ammo situation is getting CRAZY. Sportsman's Guide just bumped my backorder for Russian mil surplus back FOUR MONTHS to 8-15-2013. Gotta see who has it locally.

Ash
April 12, 2013, 05:58 PM
I am glad I bought it cheap when I could.

tahunua001
April 12, 2013, 09:52 PM
the mosin nagant and all it's derivatives...
the Dragonuv and all it's derivatives...
the SVT40 and all it's derivatives...

the only nation to ever make rifles chambered in this round was russia... rimless cartridges lend themselves to smooth functioning better than rimmed cartridges and it's easier to design around an easier cartridge.

Tolkachi Robotnik
April 12, 2013, 10:02 PM
Hungary, Poland, China, Romania, all made 7.62X54R rifles in their own countries, usually with Russian tooling.

Finland did a lot of variations on this round, and probably made their own tooling.

Westinghouse and Remington made 7.62X54R Mosin rifles, but not in Russia. This was before the Czar was unable to take delivery, it might have broke the companies if the U.S. government did not make good on the deal. These sold for as low as four dollars to those in the markmanship program, and they were used for deer hunting even before WWII.

tahunua001
April 12, 2013, 10:04 PM
guess I should have said russia or countries with strong communist influences...

ObsidianOne
April 12, 2013, 10:24 PM
I don't shoot surplus ammo. Most of the surplus ammo on the market is under 150 gr. The 91/30 is rifled to shoot 200 gr ammo. I do shoot modern Russian ammo. 203 gr Brown Bear ammo shoots the best in my tests. Prvi Partisan is the most accurate but they don't manufacture soft point ammo. The 7.62 x 54r with 203 gr soft point ammo hits like a shotgun slug, it puts deer down on the spot. After the first couple days of hunting here in NC deer seldom venture far from dense, impenetrable cover. If the deer even runs 50 yards or so your chances of recovering the deer drop dramatically.
Sure they do.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/rifle-ammunition/7-62-x-54-russian/prvi-partizan-7-62x54r-sp-bt-150gr-pp-7-64.html

Ignition Override
April 13, 2013, 02:50 AM
According that article in the NRA magazine a few years ago, the Russians sent Cossack inspectors to the West. or Remington plants.

One Cossack took each rifle and banged the stock butt on the floor. They taught him a lesson by leaving a round in a chamber one day. Boom!
When the Russian revolution began, some US troops were in a Russian port and actually had a firefight with some of their troops.

Anyway, the only reason I sold both Russian MN 44s (one came from Classic- in '07) was because of the huge groups on paper from 50 yards, using only Bulgarian ammo.
This happened with retracted or extended bayonets, and the bores were fairly bright, but if there were lots of muzzle wear, could this explain 7" groups from 50 yards using a bench rest?

meanmrmustard
April 13, 2013, 04:33 AM
I don't shoot surplus ammo. Most of the surplus ammo on the market is under 150 gr. The 91/30 is rifled to shoot 200 gr ammo. I do shoot modern Russian ammo. 203 gr Brown Bear ammo shoots the best in my tests. Prvi Partisan is the most accurate but they don't manufacture soft point ammo. The 7.62 x 54r with 203 gr soft point ammo hits like a shotgun slug, it puts deer down on the spot. After the first couple days of hunting here in NC deer seldom venture far from dense, impenetrable cover. If the deer even runs 50 yards or so your chances of recovering the deer drop dramatically.
Sure there is.

It's usually sold out these days, but there are SPs made by PPU.

hang fire
April 13, 2013, 10:33 AM
According that article in the NRA magazine a few years ago, the Russians sent Cossack inspectors to the West. or Remington plants.

One Cossack took each rifle and banged the stock butt on the floor. They taught him a lesson by leaving a round in a chamber one day. Boom!
When the Russian revolution began, some US troops were in a Russian port and actually had a firefight with some of their troops.

Anyway, the only reason I sold both Russian MN 44s (one came from Classic- in '07) was because of the huge groups on paper from 50 yards, using only Bulgarian ammo.
This happened with retracted or extended bayonets, and the bores were fairly bright, but if there were lots of muzzle wear, could this explain 7" groups from 50 yards using a bench rest?
US and Russian troops had a fire fight? Uh yeah, and it lasted for several years.

bigdaa
April 13, 2013, 10:52 AM
The Soviets of WWII fame adapted the 7.62X54R round to the SVT 40 and considered that rifle the Russian M1 Garand.


It employed a box magazine which was an advancement over the Garand, but that is where the similarities ended.

The SVT 40 was too delicate and prone to failure to ever measure up to even the most battle worn and abused M1 Garands.

The cartridges are somewhat on par with the American 30-06 but are more varied for the military application in terms of projectiles used. From 148 to 204 and everywhere in between, these cartridges from the factories could fill all requirements.

That said, it would be preaching to the choir to say to folks that the vast majority of the ammo available is ComBloc corrosive steel cased copper washed. This requires the special attention to cleaning all weapons using this stuff.

I don't have a rifle chambered for this round but intend to get one to utilize the 1500 rounds I have in storage. The boys want an M44 and so do I.

Ash
April 14, 2013, 06:56 AM
Mosins were generally made for 147 grain LPS by the time WWII rolled around. Heavy ball in the Soviet Union was 180 grain and it was considered "long range" ammo for machine guns. General soldiers received packets of light ball for their rifles. 200 grain loadings were never military standard.

Saying that, my Finns really like the 203 grain soft points. Heck, most of my Mosins shoot that weight well. My PSL likes the light ball while my NDM-86 seems to have little real preference - it seems to like most ammo just fine.

firesky101
April 14, 2013, 02:15 PM
True 200gr was never a military loading I know of, however the original load of 7.62x54r was a 210gr.

Ash
April 14, 2013, 03:05 PM
But that was before they went to spitzer bullets. The vast majority of Mosins had their sights removed and replaced with Konovalov versions 1907-10 to handle the lighter spitzer bullets. All Mosins made after 1909 have the newer sights and were so designed to fire the lighter bullets. All M91/30's, 38's, and 44's were designed and intended to fire 147-149 grain bullets, 180 grain if need be. There were no bullets heavier than the 180's in issue during or after WWI.

coalbed
June 13, 2013, 08:52 PM
I love the way some people buy a gun made for steel case corrosive ammo and then claim its too good to shoot the surplus in it. Iv'e had good luck with Russian surplus as well as Bulgarian and both are probably the cheapest rounds out there. I would love to reload at anywhere near the price of this stuff, but truth is the components are just not available at any price and gas checked cast bullets are a pain in the rear all the way around, not to mention the low charge weights and heavy bullets land nowhere near the sight in for anything else on target, then you have to deal with the bore lead. I would only use cast bullets in a rifle if the Apocalypse was upon me and I had no other bullets left that could be made to work. The 1st bunch I remember that claimed surplus Russian was unacceptable was the AR-15 crowd who bought uppers to use the cheap ammo (7.62x39), then realized their guns wouldn't run with it. They then claimed they didn't want to use it anyway as it was dirty garbage ammo and unfit for their black rifles ;). I would love to be able to keep a supply of good quality reloading components at hand, but even before the rush on ammo it was hard to get the same type hunting bullet after you had set up a good load with one brand, it would be out of stock the next time you wanted it, if not the bullets, then the powder, if not the powder, then the brand of primers. I'd stay so mad at Midway Id yell everytime I went to order. See the only ones worthy of in stock items are the owners of 1911 colts in .45, AR-15 owners in .223, and M1A owners in .308. Anyone else can make do as far as ammo, component, and accessory manufactures and sellers are concerned. I hear Canada has a good selection of .310-.313 bullets due to the high number of SMLE rifles in .303 British there, I would love to have a good selection of those sizes, in several weights, Its the bulk of what I want to load. but alas, Its not easy to come by here. Just because its in the catalog, doesn't mean it will be in stock. Some weights are listed but Iv'e NEVER seen them in stock.

stubbicatt
June 13, 2013, 09:54 PM
I purchased a box of Lapua D166 bullets. I think the bullets cost as much as the rifle. 100 projectiles cost me more in 2013 than did the rifle in 2002 or thereabouts.

Now to load them. I may "Mexican Match" load them on steel cases, but I have a few brass cases I could use. I wonder how well the heavies will perform from a SVT40?

If you enjoyed reading about "7.62 x 54 who shoots this?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!