Reduced powder for LC brass?


PDA






ldlfh7
March 30, 2013, 01:52 PM
Im reloading 7.62X51 LC brass for my 308 bolt rifle. I have read many suggested reduced powder charges for the thicker nato cartridge ranging anywhere from 2-10% of the 308 win load. Anyone have any experience with this? Is the case that much thicker that I have to reduce by 10% ?

If you enjoyed reading about "Reduced powder for LC brass?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ranger335v
March 30, 2013, 02:03 PM
" Is the (LC) case that much thicker that I have to reduce by 10% ? "

Not in my experience, no more so than normal lot to lot variation for commercial stuff. Much of that type info you read on the web is 'instant expert guru' crap, people just repeating what they read from someone else's post. ??

medalguy
March 30, 2013, 05:01 PM
Remember, they can't put anything on the net that isn't true.

45lcshooter
March 30, 2013, 05:32 PM
I like to keep my brass around for a long time, so I don't do hot or compressed loads.

I've heard people say about reducing LC brass loads. But I don't, and I haven't had any failures. I run LC brass in my 308's and 223's. That brass is far better than most of the other brass out there.

If you don't want to use the brass, I'll send you my address and you can get rid of it. Lol.

USSR
March 30, 2013, 08:49 PM
Im reloading 7.62X51 LC brass for my 308 bolt rifle. I have read many suggested reduced powder charges for the thicker nato cartridge ranging anywhere from 2-10% of the 308 win load. Anyone have any experience with this? Is the case that much thicker that I have to reduce by 10% ?

Definitely reduce the charge weight of any load data you find that uses .308 commercial brass, when using 7.62 brass. I shoot a lot of LC brass, and I have always found it a good idea to start 1.5gr to 2.0gr below any .308 load data you find, especially if the load data was created using Winchester brass. Just MHO.

Don

Rangemaster
March 31, 2013, 12:13 PM
I load all my rounds right in the middle, seems to work the best for me.

gamestalker
March 31, 2013, 07:27 PM
It shouldn't be a problem if your working up from a nominal load level. Just don't start out at the top end of the data, and you'll be OK.

GS

clutch
March 31, 2013, 07:38 PM
I've read that LC cases tend to be thicker which raises pressures. Here (http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/cartridges-1000-yard-308-case-capacity.html) is a good link with some different cases and powder capacities along with some comments on size of chamber.

I don't reload .308 yet. I have a rifle in the safe behind me waiting for the snow to melt and load development to begin.

USSR
March 31, 2013, 08:52 PM
A good example of the load data difference is the Hodgdon Max load data for the .308 Winchester with a 168gr Sierra MatchKing which calls for 46.0gr of Varget. Use this load with Lake City brass and you have a serious overpressure load.

Don

Havok7416
April 1, 2013, 04:02 AM
In my Hornady manual it gives .308 Service Rifle load data, which I assume takes the LC cases into consideration. The numbers aren't that much lower.

dragon813gt
April 1, 2013, 06:59 AM
Measure the case capacity of the brass you have and answer your own question. It's the only way to tell if you should reduce the charge.


Brought to you by TapaTalk

ldlfh7
April 2, 2013, 01:20 PM
Havok - how much lower are they? Like 1 grain or less?

Jim Watson
April 2, 2013, 01:24 PM
Or just weigh some cases.
The old NRA rule of thumb for .30-06 was to reduce powder charge by one grain for every 11 grains heavier brass. That was not a license to increase powder charges in lighter than average cases, though.

Havok7416
April 3, 2013, 02:56 AM
Havok - how much lower are they? Like 1 grain or less?
I won't list them all, but the following tables should give you a rough idea across the board for different powders. As you can see, some are off by .3 grains while others are off by over 3.0 grains.
The Hornady manual says that the loads for both the standard .308 and the Service Rifle were made using Hornady/Frontier cases. I can only assume that they are downloading the rounds in an attempt to preserve older rifles.

As per my Hornady 7th Edition (a selection from the manual):

I HAVE LISTED MAX LOADS! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE THEM WITHOUT PROPER WORKUP!

.308 Winchester
150-155 grain bullets (various)
AA2495 43.3gr
H4895 44.0gr
IMR4895 46.4gr
Varget 44.9gr
IMR4064 44.9gr
RL-15 47.2gr

.308 Winchester Service Rifle
155 grain bullets (various)
AA2495 43.5gr
H4895 42.9gr
IMR4895 43.4gr
Varget 43.2gr
IMR4064 43.2gr
RL-15 44.6gr

USSR
April 3, 2013, 08:56 AM
The Hornady manual says that the loads for both the standard .308 and the Service Rifle were made using Hornady/Frontier cases. I can only assume that they are downloading the rounds in an attempt to preserve older rifles.

Since both load data is using commercial .308 brass, this really doesn't tell us anything about 7.62x51 brass. I can only say that 43.0gr of IMR4895 with a 147gr FMJBT bullet in LC brass in my .308 is a hot load and there is NO WAY I would load anywheres near 46.4gr.:eek:

Don

Havok7416
April 3, 2013, 01:06 PM
No argument here! I never load to max and always work up to an appropriate load. Anyone not doing that is asking for trouble IMO.

Gohon
May 17, 2013, 11:08 PM
I know this is a older post but thought I'd add some testing I did today with some 7.62mm military brass I just received. Only commercial brass I had was Winchester 308 so that was my standard for comparison.

Winchester weighed 160 grains and had a water capacity of 59.8 grains.

Lake City (LC) weighed 180 grains and had a water capacity of 57.8 grains.

Western Cartridge Corporation (WCC) weighed 180 grains with a water capacity of 55.3 grains.

Taiwan Armory (TAA) weighed 178 grains with a water capacity of 56.8 grains.

Capacity wise there isn't a whole lot of difference from the NATO brass and the Winchester brass and other brands most likely will be even less. I suspect the difference in case weight is due more to alloy of the brass than anything else. The military brass is some tough stuff with very little spring back so I'll be annealing the case necks and then neck sizing from that point on after they are fire formed which is my standard MO anyway.

Walkalong
May 17, 2013, 11:35 PM
Capacity wise there isn't a whole lot of difference from the NATO brass and the Winchester brass and other brands most likely will be even lessA 20 Gr difference between the Winchester and GI brass is enough difference to matter, say about 1.5 to 2.0 Grs, as suggested by Don? :)

ldlfh7
May 17, 2013, 11:39 PM
OK thanks for all the information. Another question on this topic... I resized some of my LC brass and my 308 bolt rifle will not allow the bolt to close when chambered. How is this possible if resized with a 308 win resizing die?

Gohon
May 18, 2013, 12:09 AM
A 20 Gr difference between the Winchester and GI brass is enough difference to matter

I said capacity wise.......not weight of the brass. Look at the capacity amounts and yes it works out to 1.5-3.0 grains of powder reduced, depending on the brass. As you can see there is only 2.0 grains difference between the Winchester and LC brass.

I resized some of my LC brass and my 308 bolt rifle will not allow the bolt to close when chambered

Had the same problem and discovered the die wasn't pushing the shoulder back enough. First make sure the die is set up correctly. Run the ram all the way up and seat the die until it touches the shell holder. Drop the ram and screw the die in another 1/4 turn and lock it down. If that doesn't work you may have to do as I did. Take some 320-400 grit sandpaper, fold it and lay it on a flat surface. Measure your shell holder first then turn it upside down and in a figure eight motion start removing metal on the face of the shell holder. I ended up removing .0035 from mine. Doesn't take long, about 5 minutes. That did the trick for me and now the sized cases chamber just fine.

Hondo 60
May 18, 2013, 12:24 AM
Remember, they can't put anything on the net that isn't true.

Dang near spit my soda all over my keyboard :D :what:

In my AR I use about 6 different brands of brass.
PMC, RP, FC, LC, PPU & Win
Some of it was 223 & some 5.56.

I've seen no difference shooting any of them.

But the smart thing to do is to start low & work up.

rogn
May 18, 2013, 12:01 PM
Theres also some IVI(Canada) military spec brass out there and its very heavy, 182 to 185 gr for 7.62 nato brass. Generally dropping 2 grains off published charges keeps you out of trouble. Its very good quality brass, but is really reduced capacity.

Walkalong
May 18, 2013, 01:28 PM
As you can see there is only 2.0 grains difference between the Winchester and LC brass. Which is enough to matter. Reduce charge weight when changing to heavier brass.

balderclev
May 18, 2013, 06:21 PM
OK thanks for all the information. Another question on this topic... I resized some of my LC brass and my 308 bolt rifle will not allow the bolt to close when chambered. How is this possible if resized with a 308 win resizing die?

Yep, had the same problem on some 223 LC brass. I just setup my die again and all was fine. Somehow I had not locked it down from my last reloading session.

Gohon
May 18, 2013, 06:25 PM
Reduce charge weight when changing to heavier brass.

No one said you shouldn't. Point is that all military brass is not as much less capacity as some want to make it out to be. Military brass does have less capacity than most commercial brass....that's most, not all. Anyone with two working brain cells knows you reduce the charge weight and work up again even with commercial brass when you switch from one brand to the other or when you change any component from the original load manual.

popper
May 18, 2013, 07:14 PM
ldlfh7 - maybe it needs to be trimmed.

If you enjoyed reading about "Reduced powder for LC brass?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!