New shotgun tactic!


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ZVP
March 30, 2013, 03:29 PM
I am just getting back into shotguns after 40 years away and have bought 2 shotguns for basic H/D and hunting/plinking fun.
The first a sweet 20 ga SxS (light for both our aging carcases and light recoil for the Wife.. The second is a 12ga pump which will get the barrel cut to 29"-20" the only gizmo abord will be a Bacckhawk 5 shell caddy on the stock.
Due to the Obama ammo Panic even shotgunners ammo is dissapearing! Low Base Bird shot and the occasional box of #4 Phesant loads might be found! It's awfull!
Shooting what we have, ai propose a scenerio of a "Good" central nass hit, followed with a quick hit in a vital artery area, to bleed down your opponent ( who cares if it dies?) Just stop the agression.
We need to work with the ammo we have.
Please comment
Thanks ZVP

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xXxplosive
March 30, 2013, 03:42 PM
IMO.......any blast from a smoothbore across a room with any hunting load shoud be devistating....even bird shot.

NOLAEMT
March 31, 2013, 12:42 AM
If you cant find any buckshot. I would look for the largest shot size (smallest number) that you can find in a 2 3/4 shell. certainly better than nothing.

Carne Frio
March 31, 2013, 01:35 AM
Bird shot is for birds and not humans. It might discourage a bad guy
and would disfigure or maim him, but I prefer #4 buck or larger.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

locnload
March 31, 2013, 07:26 AM
I like to keep well stocked on shotgun ammo, 002 buckshot is my preference for defense loads but as said, a blast in the face with #8 shot will ruin a BGs day. And the less exspensive and easy to find game loads are good for practice at weapons manipulation skills, you will do a lot more of it than you will using buckshot. I recently had a similar idea and went out and got a case of 250. When I went to put them away I found I had two of those 250 packs I bought in anticipation of a big group sporting clays weekend that never happened last year about this time. Sometimes an aging mind works out to be a good thing. :o So, Joe Biden would be proud of me, I can just go out on my deck and "Blast away". :what:

bigwheel
March 31, 2013, 03:23 PM
I like low velocity dove loads for household use..glad too cause that seems to be all Obie wants us to have. In most home defense situations think it far more prudent to rely on a large bore pistol. Save the scattergun for exotic scenarios or maybe show Mama how to use it in case the boogers come late at night whilst the man of the house is away. Do most know the strategy of shooting the shotgun at the pavement beside the car and making it hit the alleged perp on the far side? Works well on asphalt or so the SWAT boys claim. Tried to find a link demonstrating the procedure but couldnt find nothing on Google about it.

SDC
March 31, 2013, 03:47 PM
At typical self-defence or inside-the-home ranges, ANYTHING you fire is going to act like a huge pre-fragmented slug, because it won't be able to open up to anything more than 2 or 3 times bore diameter. Keeping that in mind, an arm or leg hit wouldn't be instantly fatal, but a centre-mass shot almost certainly would be.

LeonCarr
March 31, 2013, 06:14 PM
Birdshot is for birds.

If Joe Dirtbag, 6'6" 350 tweaked out on Meth comes into your bedroom at 0200, why would you use a shotshell designed for Dove and Quail and not to penetrate to the vital organs on a human being to stop him from killing you and your family?

If you do some internet searching, buckshot can still be found. Use that instead of birdshot.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Fast Frank
April 1, 2013, 03:04 AM
If Joe Dirtbag, 6'6" 350 tweaked out on Meth comes into your bedroom at 0200, why would you use a shotshell designed for Dove and Quail and not to penetrate to the vital organs on a human being to stop him from killing you and your family?

Why?

Because he just got back into shotgunning and can't find anything else. Did you read the OP?

The panic buyers have cleaned out all the buckshot.

To the OP, use what you can get. Make sure the plug is out, and load that thing with as many as it will hold. If one round of birdshot doesn't work, offer the Bad Guy another. Repeat as needed.

I'm pretty sure that any and all B.S. will come to an instant stop when you start popping off 12 ga rounds regardless of the numbers on the shells.

Virginian
April 1, 2013, 06:36 AM
This whole subject is beat to death. Barring any actual shooting data, all the "certainty" surrounding what would happen if you shoot someone with birdshot amazes me. I have seen the gelatin results, and will keep it in mind if Jello goes on the warpath. On the way to a dove shoot, we once hit a hog with the car. Farmer asked us if we would dispatch the animal. My buddy's Dad shot it with a #8 dove load at about 15'. Everyone in the vicinity and the car had gore all over them. Admittedly he did only kill the hog one time. I have #4 buck, but I don't think I would be scared is all I had was birdshot. Unless you are using a single shot, and since everyone preaching also says you need an extended 12 round magazine, if someone does manage to keep coming, keep shooting.

MilliradianDOT
April 1, 2013, 05:05 PM
Could there be some courtroom BS that comes of using bird shot in self defense? So picture this, "Joe Dirtbag" from the above post is at the end of a hallway. You're cylinder bore HD shotgun lets loose a 7/8 ounce load of #7 shot and due to a bad estimation of his height (after all he is 6'6") and the lack of light in your home at that hour, you turn inner thighs into hamburger but the femoral manages to stay intact (350 pounds means he has lots of flesh to slow the shot down). The meth in his system keeps his heart racing until the ambulance gets there. They scoop him up, patch him up and you're sitting four seats away at the courthouse two months later. His lawyer stands up and makes the claim that you were using loads that you as a firearms enthusiast knew were more likely to "horribly disfigure and maim" his client. You're lawyer says "well jury, it's all he could find at the time." Think it could happen?

All that being said, I'd rather go to jail over accidentally shredding a bad guy's jewels then go to the grave fearing the legal implications. I just wonder if it's something that could happen. I feel like in somewhere like the Chicago suburbs, a jury is liable to buy it.

LeonCarr
April 1, 2013, 06:59 PM
To the OP - Use #4 Buckshot or larger. You can still find it online or in some cases locally. I bought some off the shelf at my local Academy at lunch last Friday.

"I'm pretty sure that any and all B.S. will come to an instant stop when you start popping off 12 ga rounds regardless of the numbers on the shells."

That only works on TV. The next thing you will tell us is Joe Dirtbag will run out of the house screaming like a little girl when you rack the slide on the shotgun.

Any and all B.S. will come to an instant stop when the threat is stopped using ammunition that will penetrate to the vital organs or vital skeletal areas.

Birdshot will not reliably do that.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

amd6547
April 1, 2013, 07:00 PM
Around Cleveland, buckshot and slugs are about the easiest ammo to find. Even Walmart today had 15rd boxes of slug, and 5rd boxes of 00 buck.

Sol
April 1, 2013, 07:35 PM
^there is a ton of ammo and guns in NEO. Also any gun is better than no gun in an SD situation, but one would think that a shotgun makes a considerable mess than say a mid-large bore pistol caliber.

PT92
April 1, 2013, 08:04 PM
I am just getting back into shotguns after 40 years away and have bought 2 shotguns for basic H/D and hunting/plinking fun.
The first a sweet 20 ga SxS (light for both our aging carcases and light recoil for the Wife.. The second is a 12ga pump which will get the barrel cut to 29"-20" the only gizmo abord will be a Bacckhawk 5 shell caddy on the stock.
Due to the Obama ammo Panic even shotgunners ammo is dissapearing! Low Base Bird shot and the occasional box of #4 Phesant loads might be found! It's awfull!
Shooting what we have, ai propose a scenerio of a "Good" central nass hit, followed with a quick hit in a vital artery area, to bleed down your opponent ( who cares if it dies?) Just stop the agression.
We need to work with the ammo we have.
Please comment
Thanks ZVP

Welcome back into the world of "The Scattergun!" Definitely throughout life we are forced to improvise and work with the given situation at hand. Obviously birdshot is potentially lethal and at the very least quite "dissuading" to the perp in question.

That said, I would definitely keep your eye out for some good quality buckshot (in its absence perhaps some #1-4 birdshot). Slugs are great but dependent on your environment relative to penetration.

IMO there is nothing that beats the shotgun for HD (debatably of course ;)).

-Cheers

bubba in ca
April 1, 2013, 11:12 PM
Get whatever buckshot you can for now. This ammo panic will blow over in a few months. If nothing else, foreign manufacturers are ramping up to score a bonanza. the BG won`t care if your ammo was made in Serbia or the Czech Republic. When the market returns to something like normal you can pick and choose your ammo. You really only need 2 boxes of buck--one to pattern your gun and the other for HD. You can practice with birdshot.

In a pinch, I would choose soft slug over birdshot, but I live in a brick house with few neighbors.

Deer_Freak
April 2, 2013, 05:00 AM
I would sell your field barrel and but a 18.5 barrel. Even barrels that are cut down by a gunsmith are not as nice as factory barrel, especially if the barrel has a vent rib. To be frank for what you will spend dicking around with the barrel you will be well into the cost of a Maverick 88 with a eight shot 3" magazine.

DHart
April 3, 2013, 03:44 PM
A direct hit to the face, even with birdshot, at 15'-20' will almost certainly bring the advance of a threat to a brisk halt.

Of course, 12 ga. buckshot IS the preferred defense fodder, but if all you have on hand is birdshot - aim for the face. It is quite likely to take the eyes out and cause unbelievable trauma, which would quite likely STOP the threat immediately.

PT92
April 3, 2013, 05:40 PM
A direct hit to the face, even with birdshot, at 15'-20' will almost certainly bring the advance of a threat to a brisk halt.

Of course, 12 ga. buckshot IS the preferred defense fodder, but if all you have on hand is birdshot - aim for the face. It is quite likely to take the eyes out and cause unbelievable trauma, which would quite likely STOP the threat immediately.
Agreed--My only concern would be can the shooter definitely hit the "head" area of the perp during a low-light, high-stress confrontation? If not and that shot hits say the shoulder or knicks a forearm etc. it may not be enough to stop a low-life perhaps under the influence. Yet if it's all you have then you make do as best can be.

But I totally agree with your general point as it would sure as heck would stop me in my tracks!

gazpacho
April 6, 2013, 03:26 PM
If you can't find any buckshot load, I suggest looking for any Turkey load. B or BB or BBB or T are better than the smaller birdshot loads for your purpose. 3" if you can find it.

Tactically, I would shoot center mass, followed by the face. Kind of like a mozambique drill. The eyes are soft and valuable targets, and the first shot to center mass should slow them down. There ain't nobody you can't take in a fair fight, after they take a turkey load to the face. I think John Wayne did it best with a stout poke to the belly with the shotgun muzzle, followed by a swipe to the head with the buttstock.

You might be able to put a bayonet on the pump. Just sayin'.

splattergun
April 7, 2013, 01:55 PM
Do most know the strategy of shooting the shotgun at the pavement beside the car and making it hit the alleged perp on the far side? Works well on asphalt or so the SWAT boys claim. Tried to find a link demonstrating the procedure but couldnt find nothing on Google about it.

In a full-on combat scenario, perhaps, but not for HD. That seems like a good way to lose one's claim of self-defense. Chasing BG outside is a tactical error as well as a potential legal nightmare.

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