GLOCK 19 ejection problems?


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estacion14
March 30, 2013, 08:36 PM
I love this gun. I really. Maybe 1000 thru so far without a hiccup. So yesterday I thought I'd stop spraying full clips all over the range, slow down, treat each bullet as a learning experience. This is partly because of the price spike but mostly because I need to start paying attention to what I'm doing if I ever want to turn myself into anything but a hack. I have a tendency to get a little discouraged and empty a full clip at a target I can't seem to hit, like that's gonna help.

So instead of working with a 15 round clip, I'd load the clip, chamber a round, REMOVE the clip, fire and critique myself after every shot. I wanted to concentrate on stance, trigger pull, sight alignment, etc. Nice idea but all of a sudden I'm having ejection problems on 6 out of 10 rounds. And this is brand new, completely out of left field.

So I have 2 questions. Does removing the magazine somehow destabilize the ejection process? AND are the cases on this Tula 115 GR steel case just too flimsy? I notice that, unlike brass, they can get pretty bent out of shape.

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ku4hx
March 31, 2013, 07:18 AM
Why shoot without the magazine in the gun? Glocks will fire like that, but most people who are trying to learn trigger control, breathing, sight alignment and such just pace themselves. That last part seems to be of particular importance if you have a "tendency to get a little discouraged and empty a full clip at a target I can't seem to hit". I think that's a pretty big clue right there.

I can comment only on myself, but there's just no way I'm going to stand there and continually go through the single shot process. It's just too tiresome, too much wasted motion to do what the gun will do [semi] automatically and cuts down on actual shots fired per time period. But, as is the usual case, YMMV and I understand running certain drills and scenarios.

As to your two questions, better minds than I will have to answer. I load all my own ammunition so it's all custom. The only Tula I've fired was 7.62x39 and it was good stuff.

I own two G19s (Gen3 and Gen4) and I've yet to have any ejection problems. Empties do tend to go all over the place, but that's been the case since 1991 and my first Glock. In fact, that's true of every semi auto I own. I've never had empties go into a neat pile and they all eject differently in one way or another.

Thompsoncustom
March 31, 2013, 07:35 AM
Ya my brand new glock 17 has poor ejection to and if you remove the mag the case drops down the mag well which is a sign of weak extractor tension. Still works and hasn't causes any problems but I am use to all me brass in a neat pile 90 degrees from were i'm shooting and now I get hit in the face sometimes.

5-SHOTS
March 31, 2013, 08:02 AM
The thing you did is one of the hardest tests (if not the hardest) to judge the ejection reliability of the example of the gun you have (note: not the gun model or the platform, only that single gun example).
Infact when the magazine is in place there are two things that help ejection: 1)the next round in the magazine; 2)the follower, once the last round is fired. When you remove the magazine and fire the last round in the chamber there's nothing to help ejection and that shows possible weak points of your single gun in that area.
On youtube there's a video where a guy with a HK P30 does that all the time as a test and apparently his example works just fine.
I've never tried that on one of my semiautos, maybe next time at the range just to see what appens.

dprice3844444
March 31, 2013, 08:19 AM
glock has had some ejection problems with the 19 along with the 19 kicking the empties back in your face,give them a detailed description of your problem in writing and what you were doing,and return gun to glock.should only cost you shipping to glock.i had them put the smooth trigger on my 19's because the serrated irritated my trigger finger after 100 rounds and required a bandaid to continue requalification course.they changed them out on the 2 = 19's and 1 -26,no charge

Snarlingiron
March 31, 2013, 02:28 PM
1) you are shooting some real trash ammunition. It is notorious for breaking or chipping extractors. I know it is cheap...there is a reason.
2) Glocks are light weight pistols. Without the magazine it is even lighter so you are more prone to have weak ejection.


I have a Gen 3 Glock 19 with well over 16,000 rounds through it without any issues. It has never seen steel cased ammunition. However, probably 10,000 of those rounds have been aluminum cased Blazer.

The first thing I would do is try it again with some decent ammo.

9mmepiphany
March 31, 2013, 02:34 PM
It has become such a common Glock problem, mostly with the G19, that there are long threads discussing the whys, the fixes and there is even a name for it...Brass to Face (BTF)

It isn't the ammo, but the variations of 9x19mm case specs play a part. The problem is a Glock modification (late Gen3) that gave the G19 less reliable purchase of the rim during extraction. The extractor looses it's grip on the case rim as it is pulled from the chamber, the case is kept from dropping out of the gun by the next round in the magazine, when it hits the ejector it has nothing to pivot around and just comes flying out (hopefully) of the ejection port erratically (usually upward). The situation is excerbated by the sidewall of the ejection port being too high for even the normal angle of ejection. For a more detailed explanation, read about it on this thread (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92447) on the M4carbine forum.

You can send it to Glock and they'll change out your extractor and ejector and it may solve your problem...I had a friend who's 2nd return resulted in them replacing his gun. I understand that they will not always provide a shipping label for the return and they don't guarantee that the issue will be solved on the first trip back...they provided shipping labels for both of my friend's returns

bigwheel
March 31, 2013, 02:43 PM
I knew them crazy plastic guns would prove not to be a good plan. I tried to tell folks but do anybody listen? No. Mr. Sig do not do that nonsense.

9mmepiphany
March 31, 2013, 03:18 PM
Just to be clear, while most of my shooting has been with alloy and steel framed SIGs and my current polymer competition gun is a M&P9, I have owned a G19 (Gen2) for years and always felt comfortable using it as a CCW

Satasaurus
April 1, 2013, 04:06 AM
I'm sure others have already said, but my guess is it's that steel cased ammo. Leave that stuff to the AKs, brass for everything else IMHO. Other then that I would probably not fire it without the magazine in it. Also, in the entire 10 years that I've been target shooting, I always only load 5 rounds at a time. Just to make it last longer. I would suggest that instead of just 1 at a time with the magazine out. I do really like only loading 5 rounds at a time. It lets me practice reloading more, the ammo lasts longer(it seems ...), and I can take a breath and evaluate what I need to do different with the next magazine. Good luck, hope you get it resolved.

Thompsoncustom
April 1, 2013, 07:55 AM
Just to be more clear removing the Mag is a great way to test for extractor tension, If the brass falls down the mag well you have a problem and if it ejects normally your fine. The first thing I did after I seen my new Glock 17 was having ejection problems was drop the mag and fire one bullet at a time and everyone of them came out the mag well.

None of my guns have ever seen steel cased ammo and I really doubt ammo is the problem.

estacion14 Here is my guess to what is going on, pretty much what 9mmepiphany said they extractor is losing the case caused by lack of tension or maybe improper fit.

I just pulled my extractor and polished the top and bottom of it, removed a small amount of material on the pad the contacts the frame and determines the depth the extractor moves inwards and ordered a 20% over powered extractor spring last night. I'll report back and let you know if this fixes my problem maybe it will cure yours as well.

Total cost so far with shipping 9 bucks so still cheaper than shipping the gun back to glock.

ku4hx
April 1, 2013, 10:24 AM
I just pulled my extractor and polished the top and bottom of it ...
As soon as I realized my Gen4 G19 extractor would not drop free from the frame like my others Glock's always did (full slide disassembly), I did the same. A little elbow grease and 600 grit emery cloth applied to the extractor's top and bottom fixed that problem. I didn't remove any metal on the slide as I didn't want to affect the Tenifer (Melonite?) treatment.

The before and after ejection are the same, and I don't really see how it's ejection is a problem for me. I honed the extractor a couple of thousand rounds ago and the gun continues to be a flawless favorite. As a brass scrounger for half a century, I don't mind picking up brass that's not in a small pile. I'll even ask permission to pick up other shooters brass if they don't seem to want it. And I've never seen any pistol lay them in a pile. But then, most of my shooting is done at a covered outdoor facility standing on a concrete pad. That undoubtedly contributes to brass bounding all about. The remainder of my shooting is done on the grass between the pad and the berm and on those occasions when it's a "run and gun" event, I have no idea where the brass goes.

voyager4520
April 1, 2013, 11:50 AM
Glocks don't eject reliably without the magazine in place, you'll likely even see failures to eject and failures to extract. The spacing between the extractor and breech face is pretty loose to allow for increased reliability and lower manufacturing costs, so the casing usually drags across the top round or follower/feed lips until it hits the ejector.

I have a Glock that had the ejection problem and the new ejector fixed it, if your Glock ejects reliably with the magazine inserted there's nothing wrong with it.

AK103K
April 2, 2013, 11:09 AM
It isn't the ammo, but the variations of 9x19mm case specs play a part.
Ive come to believe this is most of what the problem is.

I shoot a lot of reloads, and as I cycle through them, they start getting worn out, especially the rims, and I start to get an increasing number of cases to the head, stovepipes, and on rarer occasions, a double feed here and there. About the same time, I start seeing more and more split necks as I reload them. Both the chewed up rims and the split necks are signs its time to retire that batch of brass.

Now, if I switch up from reloads to new, factory ammo on the same outing, I dont seem to have any issues at all.

Back to that batch of older reloads, and its back to the occasional problems.

One plus side to that though, is I dont have to try and set up "failures", and my practice is more realistic in that respect. When something does go wrong, it happens unexpectedly, and you learn to deal with it without thought.

if your Glock ejects reliably with the magazine inserted there's nothing wrong with it.
I agree.

If youre shooting your Glock without the mag in it, and it fires the round, who cares what happens next with the gun. If youre having to shoot it that way, and youre worried about extraction/ejection, youre worrying on the wrong thing at that point. ;)


As far as longevity, Im currently shooting a 17 that has a over 50000 rounds through it. I replace the recoil spring twice a year, and so far, in the 3+ years or so Ive been shooting it, I have replaced the extractor and its associated parts twice.

I think over time, no matter what you shoot, if you shoot a lot, youre going to need to replace certain things over time. Ive replaced or fiddled with my share of 1911 extractors over the years, and Glocks are no different.

9mmepiphany
April 2, 2013, 01:54 PM
Glocks don't eject reliably without the magazine in place, you'll likely even see failures to eject and failures to extract.
Odd, my Gen2 G19 ejects very reliably without the magazine inserted. I've also seen a number of Gen3 G19s do the same before the latest change in ejector design...I'm not blaming the MIM, just the design spec.

Here is a recent video (http://youtu.be/GYsHuLC0Kyg) by Tim Lau of 10-8 Consulting and here is the article on MSW (http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=125)


if your Glock ejects reliably with the magazine inserted there's nothing wrong with it.
That sounds much like the factory response when they offered the fix of stronger magazine springs for the Gen3 G22 when they started malfunctioning with weapon lights attached...it was a frame flex problem, which they addressed in the Gen4 G22. It wasa a band-aid response, not a fix/solution

If youre shooting your Glock without the mag in it, and it fires the round, who cares what happens next with the gun. If youre having to shoot it that way, and youre worried about extraction/ejection, youre worrying on the wrong thing at that point
It isn't so much a use issue as a function test for your extractor. It is like the function test for a 1911 extractor...the difference is you don't need to disassemble the Glock to test it

iMagUdspEllr
April 3, 2013, 12:39 PM
In my unprofessional experience it seems that all semi-autos extract the round and the case rides along the top of the magazine's feed lips (while being pulled out by the extractor) until the back of the case hits the ejector. Without those feed lips or the next cartridge to ride along it seems that the spent case might have the tendency to dip into the mag well before the ejector has the chance to hit the back of the case. That seems like it would cause a failure to eject as the case gets caught between the slide and the barrel.

9mmepiphany
April 3, 2013, 05:23 PM
In my unprofessional experience it seems that all semi-autos extract the round and the case rides along the top of the magazine's feed lips (while being pulled out by the extractor) until the back of the case hits the ejector.
They don't, at least they don't if the extractor is properly tensioned.

A properly tensioned extractor holds the case head against the breechface to both insert and extract it from the chamber. It then provides a stable pivot point (fulcrum) for the case to rotate around as the opposite edge is struck by the ejector. If the side of the slide has the correct amount of clearance, this action should throw (actually kick) the case out the right side of the slide.

Without those feed lips or the next cartridge to ride along it seems that the spent case might have the tendency to dip into the mag well before the ejector has the chance to hit the back of the case. That seems like it would cause a failure to eject as the case gets caught between the slide and the barrel.
That is the test for proper extractor purchase on the case rim that we are discussing.

It the case isn't securely held in place by the extractor, the loose case will, in the best case, exhibit erratic ejection and, in the worst case, jam the action

hentown
April 4, 2013, 08:33 PM
IF any of you guys opining that shooting a Glock without a mag is a valid test for extractor tension can find anything in a Glock armorer's manual, I'll eat one of my Glocks, piece-by-piece.

That's an authoritative-sounding "theory" but is fallacious, relative to Glocks. Even 1911s aren't tested for extractor tension by shooting without a mag.

Glocks will on-and-off eject through the mag well, if no mag is present, even with "proper extractor tension." How do you guys adjust the extractor tension on your Glocks? At least one inquiring mind wants to know. :cool:

9mmepiphany
April 4, 2013, 08:53 PM
How do you guys adjust the extractor tension on your Glocks? At least one inquiring mind wants to know.
I refer you to post #15 for the links to the article and the video

If you'd like to read a more detailed dissertation of the problem, here (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92447) is one from m4carbine.net

Thompsoncustom
April 4, 2013, 08:55 PM
I disagree I fell that it is a great test and has been used on 1911's for many years.

All my pistol fire just fine without a mag in except the glock 17 I just bought heck my hi point c9 ejects brass better which kind of makes me a little sad.

I've only own the gun about 2 weeks now and when I pick it up it sounded like a squeaky dog toy when you racked the slide but a little lube on the RSA and polishing the outside of the spring cleared that up and now it doesn't sound like an airsoft gun.

As far as the extractor tension goes I pulled my extractor off and like most it has a little pad that determines the depth the claw of the extractor goes inward most of the time some material can be removed here without causing problems but I would say .003 is a good place to start, so not much. I also order a %20 over powered Extractor spring and I'm hoping the combo will fix my crappy ejection but only time will tell.

I think glock's problem here is they leave a ton of sloppy to ensure easy feeding and that's way the extractor loses tension.

Johnny Lightning
April 4, 2013, 09:34 PM
I say blame the ammo. Last time at the range I loaded up my lcp w/ tula and it had a horrible time cycling the steel cases. I have never had an issue w/ my lcp until I fed it steel cases.

Thompsoncustom
April 8, 2013, 07:35 AM
Just an update:

After the polish work to the extractor and the over powered extractor spring my glock still barely vomits brass out the side with a mag in and drop it down the mag well with out.

So estacion14 I think your best bet is to send it back and forth to glock a couple times till they get it figured out or buy a APEX extractor, they have some videos showing the extraction without a mag and it works like a gun should.

Drail
April 8, 2013, 10:45 AM
Glocks don't actually "eject" empty cases - the cases leap out of the gun because they can't take the abuse and insult of being shoved into a Glock. And then they puke.

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