Kukuri failure.... It broke...


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Dontkillbill
March 30, 2013, 10:09 PM
Here is a video of me with my Kukuri. The damn thing broke

I was not impressed but the knife was replaced and the replacement is in "testing"

http://youtu.be/UtjdBNKMnIs

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JShirley
March 30, 2013, 10:13 PM
Sorry. Guessing it wasn't a Himalayan Imports...

USAF_Vet
March 30, 2013, 11:42 PM
Watched the video and for some odd reason I have a hankering for some bacon.

hso
March 31, 2013, 01:33 AM
Where'd you buy it?

Who was the manufacturer?

Common problem to improperly heat treated big knife that was over hardened or was two pieces of metal joined together at the guard.

JShirley
March 31, 2013, 10:12 AM
It would be a lot easier if you included some substantive text, rather than just two or three short sentences, and a link to a video.

I almost never follow any video links, and some members are unable to for work or bandwidth reasons.

SlamFire1
March 31, 2013, 10:34 AM
Well it looks to be a Nepalese khukuri, it did break in the tang, and that is most unfortunate.

I don’t know why, either defective steel or the tang was overheated and the steel was burnt. These things are made over charcoal fires, the makers use scrap steel, don’t have pyrometers, the process controls are taste, smell, touch, visual.

This is always a risk with “handmade”. Quality varies quite a bit. You are lucky you were not injured.

I purchased a number of khukuris over the years, I take them out and wack them against wood to test integrity. For a good number the handles became loose. The glues the Nepalese use are inadequate, I call it a glue, but the stuff was dried tree sap. I removed the cap ends, boiled the glues out of the handles, pored in modern two part epoxies, let dry, install cap, and the handles have stayed put.

JShirley
March 31, 2013, 12:22 PM
HI usually uses truck leaf springs, which are 5160- great for large knives.

DDeegs
March 31, 2013, 01:38 PM
I have an Atlanta cutlery kukri that I got about 20 years ago, for about $19.00, I've beat the snot out of it and no worries so far. Sheath leaves something to be desired but the knife is solid and I would/have used it in place of a hatchet.

Dan

Sam Cade
March 31, 2013, 05:44 PM
. The glues the Nepalese use are inadequate, I call it a glue, but the stuff was dried tree sap.

TTBOMK, that is exactly correct.

Laha=Refined tree sap.

Dave Rishar
March 31, 2013, 09:35 PM
This was a tang failure, not a glue failure. Laha was not at fault here.

Freeze the video at 0:04. The ricasso area is scribed with OKACG or OKAGG - it's hard to make out with the poor video quality and lack of focus, but that's what I see. I'm not familiar with that mark. Anyone seen it before?

EDIT: And this was a very serious failure. Someone could have been killed. I hope that whomever made this khukuri understands the gravity of the situation.

JShirley
March 31, 2013, 11:06 PM
Dave!

Great to see you.

Guys, Dave has done more cutting with large knives than I have.

Dontkillbill
April 1, 2013, 02:36 PM
It was a terrible tang failure. The replacement blade is being tested and not going to be trusted for awhile. After taking it down further it is a tempering issue. The blade and tang was hardened and the tange and the back of the blade should have been a lot less hard/brittle. The labeling is GK&CO the blade was replaced when I first received it as the blade was cracked at the spine I hoped it could still be used but was wrong.

This knife is suppose to be 5160 as well, however its what part of the blade is hard and what is left with springyness that makes or in this case breaks a blade.

Hope everyone enjoyed Easter :)

hso
April 1, 2013, 04:14 PM
After taking it down further it is a tempering issue. The blade and tang was hardened and the tange and the back of the blade should have been a lot less hard/brittle.

Makes perfect sense.

JShirley
April 1, 2013, 04:29 PM
http://www.kukrisonline.com/

Himalayan Imports (http://yhst-7333098713883.stores.yahoo.net/) are some of the more expensive khukuris out there, but are almost certainly the best of the Nepalese kuks. Don't buy Indian KLOs.

I especially suggest the 15" Ang Khola (http://yhst-7333098713883.stores.yahoo.net/15inchangkhola.html), 16.5" WWII (http://yhst-7333098713883.stores.yahoo.net/165inchwwii.html) and the 17-18" Ganga Ram Special (http://yhst-7333098713883.stores.yahoo.net/18ingaramsp.html). I prefer the wooden-handled versions for superior grip and less chance of splitting with temperature and humidity variations.

John

SlamFire1
April 9, 2013, 10:57 AM
HI usually uses truck leaf springs, which are 5160- great for large knives.

I have seen videos of kami's cutting leaf springs to use. But, suspension manufacturer’s are under no obligation to guarantee nor warranty to kami’s that their leaf springs will always be made from 5160. Suspension manufacturers are free to buy whatever lot of steel meets their needs and is the lowest cost for that day. Typically they buy in the lot size that the steel mill produces and they buy from trusted makers, but what they use is their business and no one else’s. Since the kami’s are lucky to have electricity, it is reasonable to assume they don’t have the arc blast test equipment to test steel for composition.

JShirley
April 9, 2013, 10:48 PM
I'm guessing that Mercedes doesn't change their leaf spring steel very frequently. :cool:

Fiv3r
April 10, 2013, 12:43 PM
The last time I inquired to Yangdu, HI was still very picky about what kind of steel they used. The Maoists cracking down on the country have made it a little more difficult to get the most choice of choice, but the kamis know what kind of steel makes a good knife.

I think the truck springs reasoning is that they are already leaf in shape that is of a quality steel and easier to forge than a blob or hunk of random metal.

rondog
April 10, 2013, 01:38 PM
I have a gigantic kukri that I bought from a local guy for $40, has the massive sheath, smaller knife and steel. I have no idea where it came from or who made it, but it's huge and heavy, and scary sharp. Wish one of you experts was in Denver and could tell me if it's decent quality or just a tourist souvenier.

Sam Cade
April 10, 2013, 02:48 PM
Wish one of you experts was in Denver and could tell me if it's decent quality or just a tourist souvenier.

You could do a vinegar soak to check for a temper line.

JShirley
April 10, 2013, 05:38 PM
Or, start a thread here with pics. Or join Bladeforums.com, and start a thread in the Himalayan Imports sections.

Dontkillbill
April 10, 2013, 06:08 PM
I think I need to get the replacement out and cutting/ chopping.

Fiv3r
April 10, 2013, 06:09 PM
Yep, what John said:) Post a thread over in the HI Cantina and show us a pic. Lots of experts over there, and couple quick pics of the markings at the bolster, if there are any, can tell us a lot about who made it and when.

rondog
April 10, 2013, 06:48 PM
OK, so where is this "HI Cantina" or Himalayan Imports forum? All I can find here on THR is this Non-Firearm Weapons forum. Start a thread here? Or is there some special place for kukris? I'm betting money this is an Indian knockoff, the quality is pretty lame, regardless of the size and sharpness.

Sam Cade
April 10, 2013, 07:15 PM
OK, so where is this "HI Cantina" or Himalayan Imports forum?


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/739-Himalayan-Imports

HI imports knives from Nepal.

Started by a heck of a guy, now administrated by his wife.

Good folks all around.

edit:...and it looks like HI is closed as of two hours ago, per Auntie.




Our shops in Nepal have been closed because of an unexpected lack of quality control. They will stay closed until we can improve the product quality you all expected from HI.

Fiv3r
April 10, 2013, 07:52 PM
HI is not closed. Yangdu just keeps a tight leash on the kamis who make the khuks. It's very much like herding cats at times. Uncle Bill would have been the first one to tell you that;) However, HI will be back open as soon as Yangdu gets to the bottom of any QC issues and breaks the proverbial boot off in the proverbial behind. The long and the short of it, HI simply will not put out a sub par product, and Yangdu won't let the kamis work unless they hold up their end of the deal and produce quality khuks.

Don't worry. She'll have the shop back open ASAP.


Jake
aka Steely

JShirley
April 10, 2013, 09:15 PM
Jake!

The HI forum at Bladeforums is now only visible to members.

John

Fiv3r
April 10, 2013, 09:35 PM
It's been like that for ahwile, John. Due to a wannabe hacker that Karda had to bounce, it was switched to members only view to keep him from making any more trouble. One bad apple spoiling the bunch and such.

JShirley
April 10, 2013, 10:30 PM
Oh, I was explaining that for folks who cruised through BladeForums and didn't see it.

I experienced the same thing a few weeks ago...

SlamFire1
April 11, 2013, 12:26 PM
Our shops in Nepal have been closed because of an unexpected lack of quality control. They will stay closed until we can improve the product quality you all expected from HI.

I noticed an increasing number of complaints on Bladeforums about HI khukuri's. HI cannot justify the high premium they charge, over ebay specimens, unless their khukuri’s are that much better.

From a video I saw, made by the owners of Khukuri House, they go over to a location where khukuri's are made. The Khukuri House owners get to look at and pick which khukuri’s they want and negotiate the price with the knife makers. I suspect HI does not have a decent onsite “QA” inspector and the knife makers got used to cutting corners.

JShirley
April 11, 2013, 10:33 PM
Actually, HI has several shops that make knives just for them. I suspect you don't know enough about the company.

SlamFire1
April 11, 2013, 10:38 PM
Actually, HI has several shops that make knives just for them. I suspect you don't know enough about the company.

So, which shops are making the bad knives and why?

Sam Cade
April 12, 2013, 12:09 AM
Actually, HI has several shops that make knives just for them.

The villagers are pick and choose though aren't they?

I wonder who does the selection?

JShirley
April 12, 2013, 04:12 AM
No, villagers are typically just not as highly polished.

Fiv3r
April 12, 2013, 04:46 PM
I noticed an increasing number of complaints on Bladeforums about HI khukuri's. HI cannot justify the high premium they charge, over ebay specimens, unless their khukuri’s are that much better.

From a video I saw, made by the owners of Khukuri House, they go over to a location where khukuri's are made. The Khukuri House owners get to look at and pick which khukuri’s they want and negotiate the price with the knife makers. I suspect HI does not have a decent onsite “QA” inspector and the knife makers got used to cutting corners.
I'm not going to get into a great depth of cross-forum discussion as that is bad form. John is a friend of mine whom I greatly respect, and the last thing I want to do is tramp muddy boots across his forum floors.

That said, there is a ridiculous amount of speculation in this post. There are a couple of issues going on here that Yangdu is hard at work fixing.

1.) From a health standpoint, her father who owns the business, is not a spring chicken. You really have to stay on top of the kamis in order to make sure they deliver what they promise. It's just the way that particular caste operates in their culture.

2.) The Maoists have been cracking down hard on more capitalist companies. HI is well known and not very well liked by them. The only way to get them to look the other way is to pay them off. There has also been a huge shortage of natural resources as of late. Coal is hard to come by and is rationed strictly. No coal. No fire. No fire, no good steel, etc etc etc.

3.) HI does not charge a "premium" inasmuch as a overly expensive amount "just because" that is socked away in Pala or Yangdu's bank account. HI is very much about doing good work and offering a real life for the poorest of the poor in Nepal. Pretty much all of the money goes to feeding the kamis, paying their medical bills, and keeping them constantly busy so that they can support their families. Yangdu's luxurious digs consist of a double wide in the Nevada desert;)

The poor QC is being addressed, and unlike most companies who would sell the product and just deal with the complaints if there were any, Yangdu is being very proactive in making sure that the best khuks are coming out of the shops.

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