"Four Rules" for knives?


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heron
March 31, 2013, 02:08 AM
The "Four Rules" for firearms use are all over the place here, but has anyone done something similar for the use of knives and other edged/pointed tools? If they have, I've never seen it.

I could start with a couple:

1) Keep it sharp

2) BEFORE putting the blade in motion, THINK of where it will go if it slips.

3) (This is redundant to #2, but -- ) Keep your body parts out of the path of the blade/tool.

I'm thinking another might be 'Select the appropriate tool for the job.'

Let's hear yours!

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Texan Scott
March 31, 2013, 05:30 AM
Never cut toward your body, and never use it as any tool other than a knife (it isn't a prying, hammering, climbing, tool etc.)

Mrcymstr
March 31, 2013, 05:41 AM
I dont think there are 4 universal rules when it comes to knives. Knives are so versatile it's impossible and impractical to pigeonhole what they can and cannot do.

I do agree with keeping it sharp but some situations insist you cut towards yourself. Whittling is the first that comes to my mind. Knives cannot be guided by rules but must only be guided by common sense.

Maybe the only two iron clad rules would be keep it sharp and take your time and think.

DNS
March 31, 2013, 05:49 AM
5) Loaning knives to co-workers and friends is a bad idea unless you want it abused.
:cuss:

Diamondback6
March 31, 2013, 05:58 AM
Most important: NEVER point the blade at another person or hand it to another blade-first. Treat the blade like a gun's muzzle.

You would not BELIEVE how many people in restaurants do this even with their sharpest steak knives... every time I try to educate them, and nobody seems to get it. *rolls eyes*

PRM
March 31, 2013, 07:23 AM
5) Loaning knives to co-workers and friends is a bad idea unless you want it abused.

LOL... I never loan anything I wouldn't want to give away first. Getting your stuff back trashed is a fast track to hard feelings. Years ago when I first became an LEO, a good friend, also an LEO, asked to borrow a small pocket pistol to use as a back-up until he could afford one (wanted it for about a month). When he brought it back he said the firing pin broke... yea, along with all the rust and lint from no care or lubing, not to mention all the scratches from carrying it in the same pocket with keys and other. Never offered to have it repaired or apologized.

Lesson learned.

hso
March 31, 2013, 07:31 AM
There have been 2 safety rules for as long as I can remember -

Cut away from you.

A sharp knife is safer than a dull knife.

Practical rules have been =

Its a knife and should only be used as a knife to avoid damage and injury.

dayhiker
March 31, 2013, 08:21 AM
The rules for a Cub Scout to earn his Whitlling Chip, a permit to carry :)


Pocketknife rules

A pocket knife is an important tool. You can do many things with its blades. The cutting blade is the one you will use most of the time. With it you can make shavings and chips and carve all kinds of things.

Take good care of your knife.
Always remember that a knife is a tool, not a toy.
Use care to protect yourself and others.
Think when you whittle or carve.

Dark Sky Solutions
March 31, 2013, 08:27 AM
The rules for a Cub Scout to earn his Whitlling Chip, a permit to carry :)


Pocketknife rules

A pocket knife is an important tool. You can do many things with its blades. The cutting blade is the one you will use most of the time. With it you can make shavings and chips and carve all kinds of things.

Take good care of your knife.
Always remember that a knife is a tool, not a toy.
Use care to protect yourself and others.
Think when you whittle or carve.

Yes. We are actually working on our whistling chip this year for my son. There are rules. Adults just say don't cut towards yourself or others. Bt to teach a 9 year old how to safely use a knife there has to be more rules. If you learn them you will be good to go for life.


Sent from my IPad so... Ease off the spelling

JShirley
March 31, 2013, 09:17 AM
If I am pulling a fixed blade out, if I know which side the spine is on, I firmly grasp the sheath on that side.

I am very careful where the edge and point are, if I hand someone a blade. I want us both safe.

I avoid touching the blade whenever possible. I especially don't touch the blade on someone else's custom knife or sword.

PRM
March 31, 2013, 09:19 AM
We are actually working on our whistling chip this year for my son.

Yep..., whittling and whistling go hand-in-hand. :D

conw
March 31, 2013, 12:55 PM
Not a rule, just a good tip: the closer the knife is to your body the more coordinated you are. The closer your elbow is to your ribcage, all the way up to aggressively clamping it down using your lats, the more control you have over the knife regardless of power you are putting behind the cuts.

In addition to the remembering fact that, as others have said, you should always cut away from your body and body-parts, these keep me pretty safe.

JShirley
March 31, 2013, 01:10 PM
That's a good tip, and I considered mentioning something about not over-extending. You will, however, lose some control if you pull the knife in too far, and tense your muscles. Especially when using a large blade fast, you need to not let the blade get too far from your "triangle of power". Also, keep your body behind your knife arm- you literally cannot cut yourself if the knife is always away from the rest of you.

I've been a frequent user of kukuris and other very large knives for over 15 years, and I've never suffered any cuts requiring stitches in that time. A lot of other folks have, though- start out slow, be mindful of how you pull knives out of sheaths, and "listen" to the knife.

John

george shaffer
March 31, 2013, 01:24 PM
RULE#1 never take one to a gun fight

JShirley
March 31, 2013, 01:53 PM
Sorry, that's a damn silly, uneducated expression, for a bunch of reasons.

A sharp knife at contact distance is at least as dangerous in moderately skilled hands as a firearm, will not malfunction because you're too close, and is harder to disarm.

John

heron
March 31, 2013, 01:59 PM
Another I had forgotten, but saw here first -- somewhere -- "A dropped knife has no handle."

Good so far. Any more?

Sam Cade
March 31, 2013, 02:22 PM
"A dropped knife has no handle."


Goodness gracious yes!!!


If you drop it, LET IT FALL!

conw
March 31, 2013, 04:07 PM
You will, however, lose some control if you pull the knife in too far, and tense your muscles. Especially when using a large blade fast, you need to not let the blade get too far from your "triangle of power". Also, keep your body behind your knife arm- you literally cannot cut yourself if the knife is always away from the rest of you.

I've been a frequent user of kukuris and other very large knives for over 15 years, and I've never suffered any cuts requiring stitches in that time. A lot of other folks have, though- start out slow, be mindful of how you pull knives out of sheaths, and "listen" to the knife.

Thanks John!

To clear one thing up, I kind of meant both tenets separately, using coordination as one measure and control as another.

In other words for fine or precise cuts/usage of the blade you always want it close to your body (coordination). To get additional control you can tense up certain muscles (the lats and abs while clamping your elbow down) - control here being the ability to direct the knife with additional force and maintain equally safe and certain movement. As you state this is not the same as a true coordinated use of the blade, of course. If you are whittling or cutting a string off your nephew's shirt you probably won't lock down the blade for max control!

Your tip about getting your body/bodyweight behind the blade is probably the ultimate way to powerfully and safely use the blade. Someone who understands this and understands "footwork" i.e. moving in relation to your opponent, pretty much knows the 101 of defensive knife use IMO.

There are some exceptions for "chopping" but as discussions on this forum often state, "chopping" and typical knife use are different things.

JShirley
March 31, 2013, 05:16 PM
Okay, I think we're on the same page. :)

For anyone that's unfamiliar with the "triangle of power", bring your fingertips together in front of you body. Inside that triangle shape is where you will be strongest. Now, if you relax an arm down from that position, bringing your elbow close to your ribs, you should be in ideal control/power posture.

oldbear
March 31, 2013, 06:02 PM
#4- a knife is not a toy, so don't treat it as such.

DDeegs
March 31, 2013, 09:00 PM
A knife is the poorest most expensive pry bar that you can own, like others have said a knife is for cutting.

Dan

dayhiker
April 1, 2013, 10:06 AM
Another I had forgotten, but saw here first -- somewhere -- "A dropped knife has no handle."

I am guilty of forgetting that one.:o Once or twice. :(

wleggart
April 1, 2013, 10:12 AM
give that kid a good pocket knife and let him learn to use it properly. Too bad if his mother thinks he will cut himself. Of course he will. He still needs to learn, and there is no other way. I have scars on my 64 year old hands that prove 50+ years of sharp knives will leave some scars. Oh by the way, I learned that superglue will do in a pinch if you are too far away to get to your suture kit.

j1
April 1, 2013, 10:30 AM
Another should be use a knife for cutting and smething else for prying or turning screws.

Madcap_Magician
April 1, 2013, 03:14 PM
NEVER loan a knife to someone who is irresponsible with knives.

Since people who are responsible with knives have one of their own...

NEVER loan a knife.

Especially to someone who looks like what they really need is either a short prybar, a putty knife, or a screwdriver.

hmphargh
April 1, 2013, 03:52 PM
Another good rule/proverb: A falling knife has no handle

heron
April 1, 2013, 08:26 PM
Another one I realized while I was out breaking in my new machete today -- once you begin a stroke, don't change your mind about it. Maybe not so much a rule as an instructive note, though.

bubba in ca
April 1, 2013, 11:25 PM
2 simple rules:
1) Don`t cut yourself
2) If you have reason to stab somebody, do it hard, fast and repeatedly, but within the limits of good taste.

corrallary: when you sharpen the kitchen knives, verbally tell each member of the family and hang a note on the cabinet. Keep bandaids handy.

Deltaboy
April 16, 2013, 09:45 PM
My 2 are keep them Sharp and carry more than one.

beatledog7
April 16, 2013, 10:31 PM
I'll add a few to the excellent list:

1) Sharp is good. A dull knife is harder to control and will cut you.

2) If you used it today, clean and sharpen it before you sleep. If you don't, tomorrow it will cut you.

3) Use a knife as if it simply cannot do anything but cut, because if you try it will cut something anyway -- most likely you.

4) Your knife is your knife; my knife is my knife.

TimboKhan
April 16, 2013, 10:51 PM
My one rule is to cut with pressure on the spine instead of the lock if I can help it. I rarely cut myself, even with slipjoints, by following that rule.

sent from my Galaxy Note II.

Blackstone
April 17, 2013, 03:58 PM
Out of curiosity, what is the best way to hand a knife to someone? Handle toward them, blade toward yourself? Kind of like if you were reverse gripping the knife?

zorro45
April 18, 2013, 01:24 PM
Don't ever set it down, for a folder, fold it up and put it back in your pocket or for a sheath knife, back into the sheath. (this rule may be temporarily suspended for skinning game, but be prepared to lose the knife) If I always followed this I would have a few more knives in my "collection."

This is a superstition, but I follow it. Never give someone a knife it will "cut" the friendship. Sell it to them for a penny.

rdhood
April 18, 2013, 02:47 PM
Point knives down in the dishwasher basket so that the person emptying the dishwasher won't reach down and hurt themselves.

ALWAYS be aware of where the blade is going if it slips off of it's subject , or if it slices through its subject (and adjust the direction or angle or backstop of the knife as needed to be safe). I have several scars from my youth where I failed to follow this rule.

heron
April 18, 2013, 08:22 PM
Out of curiosity, what is the best way to hand a knife to someone? Handle toward them, blade toward yourself? Kind of like if you were reverse gripping the knife?Just as you stated it. Anything else would be rude (and open to misinterpretation). I'd add, try to keep your own fingers as far from the edge as possible, and make sure the person receiving it has a good grip before you release it.

beatledog7
April 18, 2013, 08:32 PM
The Boy Scouts teach (or used to) that you take the knife by the spine of the balde, grasping it firmly, and offer it to the other person, who takes it by the handle. When he has it under control, he says, "thank you." Then and only then you can let go.

a1rstreamer
April 19, 2013, 03:50 PM
Be familiar with how you handle your knife, particularly http://www.bucklehead.com

AJumbo
April 20, 2013, 10:54 AM
Cut away from your body.

Cut away from MY body.

Do not whittle in the house; if you must, cut away from the arm of the wife's beloved leather couch.

Practice with butterfly knives should never be undertaken in the presence of panes of glass, porcelain knick-knacks, or the aforementioned leather couch.

MK75
April 20, 2013, 11:05 AM
5) Loaning knives to co-workers and friends is a bad idea unless you want it abused.
:cuss:
%100 accurate. I found that out the hard way when I let a buddy borrow my K-Bar. Guy ended up opening a tuna can with it. The tip as never been the same...

M-Cameron
April 21, 2013, 09:54 AM
1) dont stab me
2) dont stab yourself
3) dont break it unless you can fix it or hide it well.

Coop45
April 21, 2013, 09:18 PM
If you sharpen the family knifes, tell everyone.

ricebasher302
May 4, 2013, 01:36 PM
Sorry, that's a damn silly, uneducated expression, for a bunch of reasons.

Not so damn silly so as to make the opposite true, right?

conw
May 4, 2013, 02:09 PM
Not so damn silly so as to make the opposite true, right?

Opposite = always take a knife to a gun fight.

I agree with the opposite.

Maybe you meant converse. Converse = never take a gun to a knife fight.

Sam Cade
May 4, 2013, 02:57 PM
%100 accurate. I found that out the hard way when I let a buddy borrow my K-Bar. Guy ended up opening a tuna can with it. The tip as never been the same...


Sounds like something is wrong with your KA-BAR.

ricebasher302
May 4, 2013, 05:46 PM
Opposite = always take a knife to a gun fight.

I agree with the opposite.

I meant opposite in the way that you interpret it. I think that would be damn silly advise! Unless it were taken out of the following context:

"Always take a knife to a gun fight along with your rifle and handgun so that in the event your primary weapon malfunctions, and your backup runs dry, you might be able to use your blade as last ditch effort defensive tool."

Sorry, kind of off of the OP's topic.

george shaffer
May 4, 2013, 07:21 PM
look guys the never take a knife to a gun fight was an attempt at humor .as an 18 year old marine recruit in 1963 a very smart di told me to go practice for a year and then come back . he said as long as he had one round in his 1911 I was going to lose I never forgot that. now you can call it what you want but it is what it is.

conw
May 5, 2013, 12:00 AM
I meant opposite in the way that you interpret it. I think that would be damn silly advise! Unless it were taken out of the following context:

"Always take a knife to a gun fight along with your rifle and handgun so that in the event your primary weapon malfunctions, and your backup runs dry, you might be able to use your blade as last ditch effort defensive tool."

Sorry, kind of off of the OP's topic.
OT, maybe. I don't mind discussing it myself. If you interpret the "opposite" literally, nothing more or less, I find it sound.

Range is important. If the fight starts and/or ends at contact the blade may be as viable or more viable than the gun. It ultimately comes down to skill and the specific situation. I don't see why you wouldn't want both options.

thepumpfaction
May 6, 2013, 03:38 PM
BLOOD CIRCLE! That was the biggest one in the boy scouts. and saying "Got it" when someone hands you a knife, so you don't drop it accidentally.
-An Eagle Scout

roadcoder
May 6, 2013, 04:06 PM
Rule #5 - Placement is important. Utensils in the outermost position are used first (for example, a soup spoon and a salad fork, then the dinner fork and the dinner knife). The blades of the knives are turned toward the plate.

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