Powder Mystery


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gab909
March 31, 2013, 11:52 PM
I have a jug of powder that was pulled from 223 bullets a long time ago, and the writing on it states:
Faster than Hi Vel #2 (4198)
Slower than 2400 (4227)

There are 4 powders on the burn rate chart that fall into this category.
IMR 4759 No data given for 223
AA 5740 Some data for 1:12 twist barrels
AA1680 No data
Reloader 7 which is what I am reloading for my AR right now with 21.3 grs under a 55 gr FMJ

The powder looks nothing like Re7. I do not have the other ones to compare it against. It is a ball powder
just wondering what your thoughts are......

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Crashbox
April 1, 2013, 12:42 AM
Win 680?

Havok7416
April 1, 2013, 02:27 AM
That's certainly some un-specific writing. Is it surplus or commercial pull-downs?

GRIZ22
April 1, 2013, 02:51 AM
My thoughts are I would use it for fertilizer and not think of "guessing' what it was to load a round.

Havok7416
April 1, 2013, 02:53 AM
Or burn it. Burning stuff is fun...

gamestalker
April 1, 2013, 07:03 AM
I would never use an unknown powder for anything other than burning it for fun. That to me exceeds the basic safety rules of reloading.

GS

FROGO207
April 1, 2013, 07:34 AM
ANY ADVISE GIVEN HERE TO BE USED AT YOUR OWN RISK OF LIFE AND LIMB. THE THR AND THIS POSTER ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY GOOD OR BAD RESULTS OF ACTIONS TAKEN AFTER READING MY REPLY. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

That is OLD propellant for sure! IF you want to try to actually utilize this stuff and believe the label is at all correct you should proceed with extreme caution first and foremost. I believe this to be a pull down propellant of some non canister propellant. Trying to find out what a propellant is by looking at it is extreme foolishness IMHO. I would use the data for the fastest (Hi Vel #2) and use a starting point at 30% under max load. IF it works without a kaboom:scrutiny: then try successive increases until you arrive at a safe load realizing that any published data will be little if any help for you. A chrony will be a big help in this endeavor to make sure that you never go over max cartridge velocity and therefore pressure. Again if you have not worked up an unknown lot of propellent before and are not confident that you can do this safely I would advise you to abandon this stuff and use it on the lawn to be safe. YMMV

This is a lot of work/components to find a usable load and the next thing you know it is gone with no more to be had.

Walkalong
April 1, 2013, 10:17 AM
It may not even be a canister powder, but an experienced reloader could take that info and work up a load. If whoever pulled the powder had logged the bullet weight and average powder charge, it would have been very helpful as well. That is what I did with some powder I got from some .308 Surplus. If I ever get desperate to make something go bang, I know what caliber, what bullet weight, and what the average powder charge was in its original application. I ought to go ahead and do that and use it up for some blasting ammo.

ANY ADVISE GIVEN HERE TO BE USED AT YOUR OWN RISK OF LIFE AND LIMB. THE THR AND THIS POSTER ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY GOOD OR BAD RESULTS OF ACTIONS TAKEN AFTER READING MY REPLY. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.Agreed. Be safe.

kingmt
April 1, 2013, 06:07 PM
If it is less then a pound it is probably a waste of time. I like unknown powder. I get it cheap.

rcmodel
April 1, 2013, 08:31 PM
Faster than Hi Vel #2 (4198)
Slower than 2400 (4227)Well whatever it is??

It never ever came out of a factory loaded .223 or 5.56MM cartridge.

SO, either the old reloader who loaded them was flying by the seat of his pants in a snow storm to begin with?

Or, he didn't know what he was talking about when he wrote that down?

So?
It's Spring clear across the country.

Your flowers and grass will surely appreciate the nitrogen fertilizer when you pour it out on them right about this time of year!!

Whatever kind of powder it is?
It's still way cheaper fertilizer then Miracle Grow when you don't blow your eye out with it!!


rc

GLOOB
April 1, 2013, 11:16 PM
I've been waiting 2 months on a jug of rifle powder. There's no way I'd use that stuff for fertilizer.

But then I shoot cast bullets. They're more forgiving of a squib. You can start very low with a cast bullet. They're more forgiving on the top end, too, of course. You don't even need a chrono. When the bullets don't stay on the paper, anymore, ur too fast. :)

rcmodel
April 2, 2013, 12:21 AM
But, the OP said he is loading for an AR-15.

Perhaps not the best use of an unknown fast powder, with cast bullets?

You think?????

rc

ArchAngelCD
April 2, 2013, 12:34 AM
I have a jug of powder that was pulled from 223 bullets a long time ago, and the writing on it states:
Faster than Hi Vel #2 (4198)
Slower than 2400 (4227)

There are 4 powders on the burn rate chart that fall into this category.
IMR 4759 No data given for 223
AA 5740 Some data for 1:12 twist barrels
AA1680 No data
Reloader 7 which is what I am reloading for my AR right now with 21.3 grs under a 55 gr FMJ

The powder looks nothing like Re7. I do not have the other ones to compare it against. It is a ball powder
just wondering what your thoughts are......
If you're talking about Hi Vel #2, I'm not sure the powders you are talking about were around then. I'm fairly sure AA5744 is a newer powder as is AA1680. Looking at an older burn rate chart I see the only powder that sits between 2400 and 4198 back then was WW680 and since your powder is a Ball Powder it's most probably WW680... BUT, like said above, it's really only useful as fertilizer since you can't be 100% sure what is in the jug. (or flash powder for the 4th of July)

kingmt
April 2, 2013, 01:01 AM
Depends on how much powder it is. If it is a 8lb keg is treat it as Bullseye until I found that to be to slow then work up till I found what would work.

Like said tho a AR isn't the best platform for testing this.

GLOOB
April 2, 2013, 03:28 AM
But, the OP said he is loading for an AR-15.

Perhaps not the best use of an unknown fast powder, with cast bullets?

You think?????
I shoot lots of cast in 223, but I don't own an AR. I suppose they're so expensive and finicky, you should just hang 'em on the wall than to risk working up an unknown load in one? Too fast for an AR? Sure, that's not the most popular burn rate, but it's still in the same zip code. So sure, maybe it won't cycle, but cast bullets are still on the table shot one at a time.

Besides that, no, he didn't actually say he is loading for an AR. OP says this powder is from pulled 223. He mentions one powder he uses for an AR load. But that doesn't mean an AR 15 is the only possible consideration for this powder. This doesn't mean that he doesn't own any other firearms. Nor does he mention needing any land fertilized. :)

I merely suggest that a rifle shooting cast bullets is not particularly picky when it comes to powder selection. Anything from Bullseye to BL-C2 could be useful for pushing cast bullets out of many common rifle calibers. So if you have lots and lots of "fertilizer" laying around, maybe it's time you start looking into casting rifle bullets and doing a little research?

FROGO207
April 2, 2013, 07:54 AM
If you are fairly new to reloading then how to reload a safe round using propellant that is canister grade is what you should practice till you get some solid experience. THEN if you feel that the unknown propellant that you have on hand should be used there might be the possibility that you could do it safely. The OP sounded to me like a newer reloader so we are all using abundant caution to advise him. Not everyone has been reloading for most of their life and know instinctively what to do.;)

gab909
April 2, 2013, 10:01 AM
Gentlemen, I thank you for your replies and your concerns. I have powder, other than this, and I am in no hurry to try and work up a load for this. I will wait until I am retired and need a project that can have my undivided attention for a week or two. I know alot about following instructions and safety precautions. Although that can never be impressed upon too much. I spent 5 years in the EOD field and still have all my fingers and toes, I am not about to give them up for some old Powder.

788Ham
April 2, 2013, 08:53 PM
Throw it in the yard, be wise!

243winxb
April 3, 2013, 09:45 AM
Faster than Hi Vel #2 (4198)
Slower than 2400 (4227)
IMR 4198-starting load-17.4 gr. Starting load 2400-13.0gr Starting load-4227-16gr. All with a 55gr bullet in 223 Rem. KABOOM > www.photobucket.com/kabooom Think about it. Good luck. Data from http://www.stevespages.com/page8a.htm

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