Washington Post: Obama is lying on background checks


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AlexanderA
April 2, 2013, 10:05 AM
This is a must-read:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-continued-use-of-the-claim-that-40-percent-of-gun-sales-lack-background-checks/2013/04/01/002e06ce-9b0f-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_blog.html

The reliably anti-gun Washington Post is calling out the Obama administration for falsely repeating the claim that "40%" of gun sales take place without a background check. The article points out that the real figure is half that much, at most. It gives Obama a rating of "3 Pinocchios." Obama is lying, and he knows he's lying.

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willymike
April 2, 2013, 10:48 AM
Hmmm! "Lies, damned lies, and statistics", as Mark Twain would have stated.

Who would expect the truth come from any politician with such an agenda as his. Who would not expect they use whatever data, credible or not, to slant the discussion to support their agenda.

It is interesting to see the Post actually have an article calling him out.

Ryanxia
April 2, 2013, 10:49 AM
Well it's something anyways.

trapper1
April 2, 2013, 10:51 AM
Interstesting. Can someone paste article? Can't get link to work here:banghead:

hso
April 2, 2013, 10:52 AM
Selecting the most supportive numbers from any source shouldn't be a surprise, but having the Washington Post point out the weakness of the President's argument AND call him a liar in print IS surprising. Good for them.

r1derbike
April 2, 2013, 11:27 AM
It's about time. I wonder if his goons have threatened to cutoff hush money to WP yet?

hang fire
April 2, 2013, 11:51 AM
Hmmm! "Lies, damned lies, and statistics", as Mark Twain would have stated.

Who would expect the truth come from any politician with such an agenda as his. Who would not expect they use whatever data, credible or not, to slant the discussion to support their agenda.

It is interesting to see the Post actually have an article calling him out.
AKA figures lie, and liars figure.

Fishbed77
April 2, 2013, 12:15 PM
A lying politician?

I find that hard to believe.

9w1911
April 2, 2013, 12:31 PM
Im so sick of this guy

PRM
April 2, 2013, 12:38 PM
Obama lying!!!:what: Hum, his lips must have been moving. Only 3 years and 9 months of this garbage left.

AlexanderA
April 2, 2013, 01:11 PM
Update: The referenced article did not appear in this morning's print edition of the Post. This is not really surprising, given that it does not comport with the Post's antigun "party line." OTOH, since it was posted on the Web at 6:00 A.M., perhaps it missed the deadline and we'll see it in print tomorrow. Or maybe not.

floydster
April 2, 2013, 01:20 PM
PRM, he is going to introduce an executive order so he can run for a third term:)

Fishslayer
April 2, 2013, 01:21 PM
Dear Leader lying? UNPOSSIBLE!:eek:

22-rimfire
April 2, 2013, 01:22 PM
Obama has been stretching the truth since during his campaign. No reason for it to stop as it seems to work for him.

SilentStalker
April 2, 2013, 01:23 PM
Yes, this is total propaganda. This dude should be impeached for many things and this just adds to the list.

Carl N. Brown
April 2, 2013, 02:13 PM
I have been on top of this in other forums:
17 Jan 2013: http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showthread.php?425961-the-40-of-buyers-no-check&p=5408337&viewfull=1#post5408337
25 Jan 2013: http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showthread.php?425961-the-40-of-buyers-no-check&p=5408965&viewfull=1#post5408965

Beware of Politicians Quoting Statistics...

...Or,
Q: How do you tell when a politician is lying?
A: His lips are moving and statistics are coming out.

Recent hearing exchange:
LOBUCHAR: And is it true that about 40 percent of gun sales take place at the gun shows?

J. JOHNSON: Statistics reveal that 40 percent of gun sales take place at gun shows and other non-licensed dealer sales arrangements. Nearly 6.6 million guns through that process a year. . . .


The 40% stat has been repeated by Los Angeles Times quoting US VP Joe Biden, Washington Post quoting Brady Campaign, Time quoting "Gun-control advocates", New York Daily News quoting NY Gov Andrew Cuomo,

And the 40% has been used in op-eds by Julie Roginsky at Fox News (40% of guns are not purchased though licensed dealers who do bacckground checks) and Dean Obeidallah at Huffington Post ("...40% of the guns legally sold are to people who have had no background check...").

"40% gun sales", "40% gun buyers", "40% gunshow sales".

The survey being cited was the 1994 National Survey on the Private Ownership and Use of Firearms, which was conducted by the survey firm of Chilton for the Police Foundation on a grant from the US Department of Justice.

251 people in the survey sample reported "acquiring" guns during 1993-1994.

This is "firearms acquisitions" not "gun sales". In fact, when the NSPOF asked the 251 sample

What Best Describes HOW You Obtained Your Gun?
73% Bought it
19% Received it as a gift
3% Traded something for it
5% Inherited it

Where did these folks "acquire" their guns?

60% from stores (gun shops, pawnshops, sportings goods counter at a department store, etc.), which after 1968 would have to hold a Federal Firearms License and from Nov 1998 were required to run a background check on buyers.

From What Source Did You Obtain This Gun?
43% Gun store
6% Pawnshop
11% Other store
"Stores" 60%
4% Gun show or flea market
3% Through the mail*
17% Member of the family
12% Friend or acquaintance
4% Other
"Not stores" 40%


73% acquired a gun by purchase ("bought").
60% cited the source as "stores".
Which implies 13% bought guns from private individuals at gunshows, flea markets, friends, acquantainces, family or "Other" implying either stranger or source not given.

27% were not a gun buyer acquiring a gun from a gun seller:
19% Received it as a gift
3% Traded something for it
5% Inherited it

The 40% "non-licensed dealer sales arrangements" include 27% gifts, trades or inheritance among family members, friends, acquaitances. BTW "unlicensed dealer" or "dealing in firearms without a federal firearms license" is a federal crime. However, ATF says giving firearms as gifts to family members or occassionally buying, selling or trading guns among family, friends or acquaintances is legal under the 1968 GCA and does not make you eligible to get a FFL.

THE BIG LIE:
40 percent of gun sales take place at the gun shows and no background checks are run.

THE TRUTH:
The survey that gave 40% of gun "acquisitions" as non-store "acquisitions" did not say 40% of gun "sellers" were at gun shows and did not run background checks on gun "buyers".

The biggest source of non-store gun acquisitions was 19% gifts from family or friends who did not run background checks on the family or friend recepients.

Maybe 13% of gun acquisitions are private sales among family, friends, acquintances or strangers, where the private seller does not run background checks on the buyer.

Gun shows plus flea markets were the source of firearms for 4% all gun acquistions. Most vendors at gunshows I have attended were dealers and they did run NICS background checks on me. The claim that 40 percent of gun sales take place at the gun shows without background checks is an example of Joseph Goebbel's Big Lie propaganda technique.


AGAIN the 40% lie:
Piers Morgan interviewing Michael Moore 19 Mar 2013:
MORGAN: I just find it completely offensive. The idea that you would want to have a continued loophole where 40 percent, minimum, of all guns sold in America are sold at gun shows where nobody can check anything. You can buy an AR-15 tomorrow at a gun show. Nobody knows. This is the stuff of madness.

-------------------------------------
*NOTE on 1993-1994 mail order: the 1968 Gun Control Act outlawed mailorder gun sales. According to NIJ report authors Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig, mail orders of modern guns are shipped to local gun shops, where the sale is completed by a licensed dealer with Form 4473 (and since Nov 1998) with a background check. Only antique or replica muzzleloaders are directly sold by mail.

Kim
April 2, 2013, 02:16 PM
The MSM has been lying too and THEY know it!! Think we will see them even mention the LIE. NO. They are pressing again hard for gun control Getting hysterical again and pushing.

22-rimfire
April 2, 2013, 02:18 PM
Hysteria works.

Black Butte
April 2, 2013, 02:43 PM
The real news would be Obama being honest. That's what should be reported if it ever happens.

Blackstone
April 2, 2013, 03:38 PM
So only 4% of acquisitions took place in a gun show, BUT there is no information on whether a background check was done for those sales? Therefore, the true number of guns bought at a gun show with no background check is anywhere between 0-4%, am I reading the stats breakdown correctly?

Baba Louie
April 2, 2013, 04:06 PM
90% of guns seized from Mexican crime scenes come from US gunstores...

Anyone remember that old "fast & furious lying thru the teeth but now under DOJ investigation"? Or "Bush started it?" Sure, we do. But The Press???!!!??? How's that investigation going, eh MSM? :rolleyes:

:banghead: :banghead: (you know, it feels so good when I stop banging my head against the wall)

Then again, I guess we have based an entire war, maybe 2, on lies or slight prevarications from duh trut... but only when needed for the betterment of mankind, of course (that should go without saying) :cool:

Pilot
April 2, 2013, 04:12 PM
99% of what Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Schummer, Feinstein and all the other anti-2A statists say are LIES.

InkEd
April 2, 2013, 04:21 PM
They named the Teddy Bear after T.R. because of his actions.
I hope they name a plague/cancer after Obama because of his actions.

Akita1
April 2, 2013, 04:26 PM
They named the Teddy Bear after T.R. because of his actions.
I hope they name a plague/cancer after Obama because of his actions.
Obamalitis Maximus

FitGunner
April 2, 2013, 04:47 PM
This 1994 survey polled less people than the average online poll that we see linked on this forum. Not only is it outdated information but it is not really applicable to the nation as a whole. Talk about an abuse of statistics.

Blackstone
April 2, 2013, 04:51 PM
This 1994 survey polled less people than the average online poll that we see linked on this forum. Not only is it outdated information but it is not really applicable to the nation as a whole. Talk about an abuse of statistics.
Quite, and even then, the statistics have to be manipulated to give the exaggerated 40% figure. In summary, Obama is misrepresenting and manipulating near two decade old data that didn't even have such a large sample size.

Kim
April 2, 2013, 06:15 PM
The thing is the citizens have been properly lied to for political reasons. The damage is done. The stalwarts of the Free Press are complicit. And it is intentional. There will be no correction to the damage. MSMBC is going full press to get the anti's writing and protesting. WE MUST send letters this week. WE need to keep up the pressure. I'm sending mine today. Their plan is to break the filibuster and get a vote so they can keep up the heat. WE can NOT let them win.

Black Butte
April 2, 2013, 07:16 PM
99% of what Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Schummer, Feinstein and all the other anti-2A statists say are LIES.

The other 1% is just dishonest.

highbrow
April 2, 2013, 10:47 PM
Every time BHO opens his mouth, he lies.

statelineblues
April 3, 2013, 12:44 AM
Hmmm! "Lies, damned lies, and statistics", as Mark Twain would have stated.

Nowadays I would say "Lies, damned lies, statistics, and Opinion Polls"

Grassman
April 3, 2013, 09:20 AM
Even the Washington Post see the lies, that's something from that liberal rag.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-continued-use-of-the-claim-that-40-percent-of-gun-sales-lack-background-checks/2013/04/01/002e06ce-9b0f-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_blog.html

mgkdrgn
April 3, 2013, 04:22 PM
Obama lying!!!:what: Hum, his lips must have been moving. Only 3 years and 9 months of this garbage left.
we hope ...

S&Wfan
April 3, 2013, 08:48 PM
Sure he lies, and one of the things that most disturbed me in his recent State of the Union talk was the part about wanting the government to fund future gun research.

I can see it now, some young college educated researcher gets leaned on to make the questions, research and the fuzzy math go along with what THIS president (or any FUTURE president) wants that research to say.

Heck, we can't even get college records on mystery man and HE wants to control future gun research data?

WRONG!!!

GambJoe
April 4, 2013, 01:26 PM
Lets see what happened here. A liberal newspaper is reporting some facts about gun sales in the USA and everyone is angry about it. The media from what I've been reading is starting to get at the facts. Even NPR did a report saying a lot of the recent proposals will not do anything to prevent another mass shooting or lower crime. So we are winning right?

Operation fast and furious was initiated and continued under two different administrations. To me it just shows me the level of incompetence both parties share. Coumo's latest foray into gun control proved my point. Sad but true both parties incompetence goes way past gun issues to.

Wow, the liberals at the WP tried to get it right for once.

AlexanderA
April 4, 2013, 03:44 PM
Wow, the liberals at the WP tried to get it right for once.

The article never made it into the print edition -- it remained as a mostly unread blog post. I imagine that Glenn Kessler (the author) is going to pay a price for straying from the Post's antigun party line. BTW, I wouldn't describe the WP as "liberal." It's owned and run by a family (the Grahams) that are statist, establishmentarian plutocrats.

Carl N. Brown
April 4, 2013, 04:26 PM
The total number gun owners in the National Survey on Private Ownership and use of Firearms NSPOF was 2,568 and questions were asked about issues types of firearms and reasons for owning.

The NSPOF sample of persons who acquired guns in 1993-1994 was 251 persons (about one out of 10). A statistically significant poll sample should be at least 600, preferably 1,000 or more. 251 would give a rough idea about gun acquisitions and suggest a need for a larger study. Which hasn't happened, has it, because it would undermine the rhetoric promoting gun control.


90% of guns seized from Mexican crime scenes
As Department of Homeland Security DHS and the private Strategic Forecasting StratFor pointed out independently:
Mexican authorities had seized 30,000 guns in drug-related cases 2004-2008.
ATF asked them to submit guns that appeared to be US origin (made in or imported into the USA according to receiver markings) since ATF only has records of US manufacture or imports or guns reported to ATF in law enforcement cases.
7,200 appeared to be US origin.
ATF records were found on 4,000 of those 7,200 guns.
3,480 or 87% of the traceable guns were in ATF records as sold in the USA.
3,480 was 12% of the 30,000 drug crime guns.

There are US made guns seized in Mexico, such as M2 Carbines, not sold in US gun shops. Mexican authorities say the M2s were military surplus smuggled into Mexico from VietNam.

But the claim that 90% of the total were bought at gunshops in the US was a lie.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon, Obama's buddy in Rose Garden events and a Joint Session of Congress promoting the 90% claim, was replaced in the last Mexican election. Haven't heard about the new Mexican President, have we?

Kim
April 4, 2013, 04:37 PM
Captain Mark Kelly was on MSNBC today repeating the 40%. Now, I know they know cause they have WP "reporters" or "journalists" on their shows all the time. Not one person said anything. Not one.

AlexanderA
April 4, 2013, 06:20 PM
The thinking is that if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the "truth." Straight out of Goebbels.

phil dirt
April 4, 2013, 07:05 PM
Yesterday, in San Francisco, the liar in chief said that the shooter in Connecticut was using a full automatic. Obama is a lying fraud, and everything that comes out of his mouth should be questioned. Unfortunately, the media eats everything he says with a shovel.

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