9mm neck sizing/tension issues


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SpentCasing
April 2, 2013, 09:10 PM
I had posted a thread about shrinking COAL the other day. Got a lot of great help and had thought it was a expanding/bell issue.

Still having problems. :banghead:So, Ill resize the case and go straight to seating the bullet. No expand what so ever. Seat the bullet to OAL and I can still press bullet in by pressing on the bench or chambering pretty easily. What gives? Resizing die out of spec? Call Hornady CS?


Details:

Press: Hornady LnL
Dies: Hornady 3 pc. (9mm)
Brass: Blazer, Speer, FC- no difference
Bullet: Hornady XTP HP 124gr
COAL: 1.090

Yes, resize die is ran all the way to the plate. Please help, Im about to give up. Thanks THR.

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eam3clm@att.net
April 2, 2013, 09:22 PM
This sounds like an issue I had a while back when i switched to a LNL press. I finally had to get an undersized die to fix my problem. This was with Lee dies though. I would call Hornady first. If they cant help, try different brands of brass. Some brass is thicker than others.

beatledog7
April 2, 2013, 09:50 PM
Sounds like the die has been over-bored a bit. Hornady CS is top-knotch, and will make it right.

Marlin 45 carbine
April 2, 2013, 10:05 PM
no expand or no crimp? if no expand then it's difficult to start the slug into the case.

KansasSasquatch
April 2, 2013, 10:22 PM
Sounds like the die has been over-bored a bit. Hornady CS is top-knotch, and will make it right.
Indeed. In fact, half the time I call Hornady I have to talk them into letting me pay for something I know I screwed up.

SpentCasing, have you measured the bullets to make sure they're in spec? You're using good quality Hornady bullets so it's probably not a bullet issue but it's always good to make sure. The die could be out of spec. Or the brass might be bad. Are you using once fired brass that YOU fired?

SC_Dave
April 2, 2013, 10:36 PM
Spentcasing, I went through the same EXACT issue. I read, researched and asked questions with no luck. I called Hornady and they sent me another sizing die which I was sure would solve my problem, it did not.

I borrowed an fellow reloaders RCBS sizing die and it solved the problem straight away. I ordered a set of RCBS dies and never looked back.

If you are like me you really want the Hornady dies to work but no natter what I did they would not size the casing properly. Save yourself from futher aggravation and get a set of RCBS. I like the RCBS seat/crimp die better too.

BTW I love my LnL AP and Hornady's customer service I just think they have a sizing die issue.
David

SpentCasing
April 2, 2013, 10:37 PM
SpentCasing, have you measured the bullets to make sure they're in spec? You're using good quality Hornady bullets so it's probably not a bullet issue but it's always good to make sure. The die could be out of spec. Or the brass might be bad. Are you using once fired brass that YOU fired?

Yes bullets were checked and in spec (.355) IIRC. And ,yes, brass was once fired by me.

murf
April 3, 2013, 12:42 AM
measure the outside diameter of your sized brass. subtract .024" from that number (your brass wall thickness should be .012"). result should be smaller than .355". if it is not, take sc_daves suggestion and get rcbs dies. fwiw

murf

1SOW
April 3, 2013, 02:16 AM
Speer, FC & Blazer are all essentially the same "ATK" brass, the softest and thinest.

Try some Win or PPU and see if that works. If it does, I'd get another die.
My Lee dies will size and hold firm for all of these except "some" of the .FC. or .FC
I only use range brass and shoot it umpteen times. I've also loaded the 124 XTPs, and I load these in range nickle cases which is usually ATK like yours.

9mm brass has more thickness variations than most any other caliber.

Fishslayer
April 3, 2013, 02:20 AM
Speer, FC & Blazer are all essentially the same "ATK" brass, the softest and thinest.

Try some Win or PPU and see if that works. If it does, I'd get another die.
My Lee dies will size and hold firm for all of these except "some" of the .FC. or .FC
I only use range brass and shoot it umpteen times.

9mm brass has more thickness variations than most any other caliber.

So I'm not the only one who sorts 9mm brass down to FC, .FC an .FC.? :D

noylj
April 3, 2013, 02:56 AM
I only have this problem in 9x19. It doesn't matter if I use Hornady, RCBS, or Lee dies. 9x19 brass simply varies all over the place.
I just loaded 300 rounds on my 1050. Checked each round for bullet set-back. Out of 300 rounds, slightly more than 50 had bullets that could easily be pushed into the case.
Most were Fed, Speer, Blazer with some WW and Win.
Need to get a slightly smaller sizing die.
There are "small base" dies that will solve the problem and I'm beginning to think about getting one-- see MidwayUSA "Lee U Carbide Small Base Sizing Die 9mm Luger" for $19.99 and, of course, out of stock. Evolution Gun Works has "undersized dies."
I have been loading 9x19 since the mid '70s, and it has only been in the last 10 years at most that I have been having a problem, and it seems to be getting worse. From a couple out of 500 in the last few years to almost 60 out of 300.
Your solution is fairly simple. Resize a case and measure the case ID. If it is larger than 0.354", it is too big. Report this to Hornady.
The problem right now is if they even have any dies in stock to replace it; however, talking to them is always good.

243winxb
April 3, 2013, 09:24 AM
I borrowed an fellow reloaders RCBS sizing die and it solved the problem straight away. I ordered a set of RCBS dies and never looked back. RCBS has been making dies for many years They know how to make them right, with "tungsten carbide". :)

gamestalker
April 3, 2013, 09:55 AM
Did you use any crimp? You said you didn't bell the case, so I'm assuming you didn't crimp either, correct? The only way to know if it isn't something you may be doing, is if you take fresh resized case, not one you have already seated a bullet in, seat the bullet without any crimp at all. If you are still having neck tension issues, it is either the brass or the die. It is often misunderstood that crimping a rimless cartridge increases or has any positive impact on neck tension. This is not so, and at the very most, when a crimp is applied it removes any belling used to provide easy seating, thus restoring the mouth back to it's non belled diameter.

I've personally never run into a bad die, but I would imagine they happen now and then. As for brass, I've come across a few pieces of 9mm brass over the years that were too thin, but only a few, in a few decades.

GS

gamestalker
April 3, 2013, 10:02 AM
Also, I don't own any Hornady dies, so I don't know exactly how they are designed. But if it is anything like other carbide dies, it should have a carbide, or other type resizing ring just inside the bottom of the die. Take a very close look with a magnifying glass to see if it is fractured. I have encountered this on a Lee die a number of years ago, it was my fault too. I had adjusted the die down to far against the shell holder, putting too much stress against the die, and thus fracturing the carbide ring. Do you have any marks on the brass, as in vertical scratches?
GS

dickttx
April 3, 2013, 01:02 PM
I cannot get Precision Delta jacketed bullets to stay in place in Starline 38 Super brass.
I have accumulated three sets of 38 Super dies, two Lee and one RCBS. None of the three will size the brass enough (right out of the sizer, no expander) to retain the bullet. I first noticed this when I was measuring the OAL first time. Rolling the thumb wheel of the calipers would push the bullet into the case. I eventually tried the other two sets of dies with the same results.
The PD jacketed bullets are .355.
I solved my problem, and saved considerable money, by only using lead bullets at .356. I tried a sample of the PD .356 jacketed and they worked OK.

SpentCasing
April 3, 2013, 04:03 PM
Well, I contacted Hornady. They are sending me a RA. They want me send them my die and a few pieces of each headstamp of brass so they can see whats going on. Id really like to be loading now, but guess Ill have to wait a bit more. Thanks for the responses everyone.

Walkalong
April 3, 2013, 08:50 PM
I cannot get Precision Delta jacketed bullets to stay in place in Starline 38 Super brass.
I have accumulated three sets of 38 Super dies, two Lee and one RCBS. None of the three will size the brass enough (right out of the sizer, no expander) to retain the bullet.I had a similar problem and I ended up buying a Lee U (undersized) die from EGW.

New Starline brass was fine, but once it was fired and resized, it would not hold the bullet tight enough. My standard Lee die would not size it sufficiently, but the U di does. Another brand may have worked, but I figured I would try a U die. It is more than .001 tighter than the first die.


With 9MM brass, make sure the sizer is down far enough. Since it is a tapered case, not running the sizer down far enough can cause poor neck tension.

As posted though, 9MM case wall thickness is all over the map.

dickttx
April 3, 2013, 08:56 PM
New Starline brass was fine, but once it was fired and resized, it would not hold the bullet tight enough.

Glad to hear you say that. The new worked fine for me too. Have wondered if it actually did, or, if I was just inattentive when I loaded the new brass.:o

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