Should someone who carries never get drunk?


PDA






Mr. Ready
April 3, 2013, 01:09 PM
I know the first rule of concealed carry is always carry because otherwise carrying is pointless. But at the same time i know its wrong to be carrying in a state where the decision making complex and motor control are adversely affected. So is it as simple as dont go out and get drunk or high if you are someone who carries?

If you enjoyed reading about "Should someone who carries never get drunk?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
PRM
April 3, 2013, 01:10 PM
Sounds pretty simple...

It's also illegal to CC if your intoxicated in my state. So, get caught, and you won't have to worry about legality of future carrying.

Ryanxia
April 3, 2013, 01:11 PM
If you drink responsibly then carry on in my opinion. I'm not going to disarm every time I go out for a drink or two but at the same time if I'm going out to a bar with friends with intention of consuming an extreme amount of alcohol (rarely go to bars for that :) ) then I'll disarm.

All depends on who you are though I guess.

Teachu2
April 3, 2013, 01:12 PM
Some things are absolute, and this is one of them. Drinking responsibly while carrying means non-alcoholic beverages only.

USAF_Vet
April 3, 2013, 01:12 PM
In my state you can have your permit pulled if you are drunk while carrying.

If you are going to drink, leave the gun at home.

tomrkba
April 3, 2013, 01:14 PM
Some things are absolute, and this is one of them.

Nope. This is a case of a rule gone too far.

Don't carry when drinking beyond one drink. Lock your guns up and don't take them out until sober. I use the rule of one drink because two leads to ambiguity (how many did I have last hour?). This rule is more about easily tracking what you have had. Now, if you're one of the exceptions and cannot have one drink without becoming sloshed, then drink nothing while carrying.

ONE beer or cup of wine is fine because you are not impaired enough to matter. I have no problem with one cup of wine with dinner. Any more than that goes beyond drinking the beverage for taste.

CoRoMo
April 3, 2013, 01:15 PM
So you leave the gun home...

Are you then able to adequately defend yourself from an attack of deadly force while disarmed?

Or might you be implying that violence never befalls an alcohol consuming individual?

When you refer to 'a state where the decision making complex and motor control are adversely affected', do you mean they are affected in a way that you are so much more able to employ bare-handed deadly force in defense of your life that you need not even carry a gun?

Why does the consumption of alcohol automatically mean that you no longer need an effective weapon for the purposes of self defense?

Arkansas Paul
April 3, 2013, 01:16 PM
So is it as simple as dont go out and get drunk or high if you are someone who carries?

Yes it is.
The "high" part should go without saying, as it is ILLEGAL. You shouldn't do that even if you're not carrying.
The drunk part, yeah, leave the gun at home. If you use it while drunk, it won't bode well for you if you're facing a jury. You can believe that.
A drink or two is different.

stumpers
April 3, 2013, 01:18 PM
Would you drink anything and then drive a car? I wouldn't. Even .01% won't get you a ticket for driving while intoxicated, but may get you an impaired driving ticket.

Now think about a self defense shooting and the extreme scrutiny you'll be subjected to.

Criminally liable? Depends on the law and who is enforcing and prosecuting it.

Civilly liable when that crackhead's mom all the sudden cares about her boy and wants your life savings? Have fun in court telling a jury you just drank a PBR 10 minutes before shooting someone in what would normally be clear-cut self defense.

Arkansas Paul
April 3, 2013, 01:20 PM
Have fun in court telling a jury you just drank a PBR 10 minutes before shooting someone in what would normally be clear-cut self defense.

I don't think I would ever admit to drinking a PBR. :neener:

USAF_Vet
April 3, 2013, 01:20 PM
Are you advocating that one should break the law and carry while drunk?

That attitude is a little irresponsible. A gun in the hand of a compromised rational mind, impaired by alcohol is a bad idea. If you think you'll need to defend yourself from a lethal threat, maybe you ought to rethink your evening plans. Carrying a gun is not always the answer.

oneounceload
April 3, 2013, 01:22 PM
Some things are absolute, and this is one of them. Drinking responsibly while carrying means non-alcoholic beverages only.

Absolute in YOUR mind maybe - but not everyone shares that view. Some folks can handle their liquor a whole lot better than others - it is up to each person to know their limitations and act accordingly

mrvco
April 3, 2013, 01:22 PM
It's simply not worth the risk in my opinion, regardless of the legality. If you have to defend yourself and are found to have any alcohol in your blood, clearing yourself is going to be just that much harder. If you can't feel safe drinking somewhere unarmed, then either don't drink or find somewhere else to drink.

Disarm. Drink. Sober up. Rearm.

CoRoMo
April 3, 2013, 01:23 PM
Getting high is not actually illegal everywhere anymore.

Neither is carrying while intoxicated universally illegal.

I know the OP mentions 'going out' and drinking, and I'm still trying to understand the majority of opinion here. Is it the 'going out' part that makes carrying unethical? Would a person be within his right to defend himself and his family from an attack of tremendous violence if they were barbecuing at home?

Or does one just simply lose his right to self defense of himself and his family when alcohol has passed his lips? Must he simply stand helplessly disarmed and idle while violence overtakes him or a loved one in such a situation?

What about contact weapons? Would it be more ethical to be armed with a good fighting knife or striking weapon while consuming adult beverages? Is it just about guns then?

Ryanxia
April 3, 2013, 01:29 PM
Are you advocating that one should break the law and carry while drunk?

That attitude is a little irresponsible. A gun in the hand of a compromised rational mind, impaired by alcohol is a bad idea. If you think you'll need to defend yourself from a lethal threat, maybe you ought to rethink your evening plans. Carrying a gun is not always the answer.
It is not illegal to drink while carrying, not everywhere anyways.

oneounceload
April 3, 2013, 01:31 PM
In many states ( and mine is one), carrying in a BAR is a no-no. However, carrying in a restaurant that serves alcohol is perfectly fine, as long as you are not sitting at the bar. Never understood the logic as the alcohol doesn't get weaker the further from the bar the waitress carries it - 6 drinks at the bar is the same as 6 drinks in a booth - but nevertheless, if you are planning a night out that involves getting gutter drunk, it would be advisable to leave the gun at home.

If you are going to the sports bar with friends to watch the big game and eat and stay within your own limitations, than I see no issue

Arkansas Paul
April 3, 2013, 01:31 PM
I'm trying to find the legalities in Arkansas. I know you can't carry anywhere (with the exception of a restaurant) that is licensed to dispense alcohol for consumption on premesis. I'm sure most states have similar restrictions, but not all.
You have to see your states regs on it.

Derek Zeanah
April 3, 2013, 01:32 PM
I'll compare this with my wife (the MD) and her take while on call.

She doesn't drink a drop. She has never had a single drop on alcohol while she was on call. Ever. Not even once.

The reasoning is two pronged: Alcohol degrades performance. If she has to drive 100 mph to get to the hospital right freaking now because a newborn will either die, suffer brain damage, or have a normal life depending on how quickly she gets there, then she won't want to have any alcohol in her system. Even if her performance is degraded to such a small degree that it won't be indicated on any cognitive or physical aptitude tests.
If there's a bad outcome with a bad situation while she's on call, she doesn't want to be stuck under oath in a civil trial saying "well, I only had one or two glasses of wine."So, mental/physical performance + liability = no drinking while on call.

I think this thinking translates well when carrying. You may be put in a life-or-death situation with no warning and need to respond without a lot of time for reflection. Someone may die based on your performance. If you're impaired, it's more likely to be you. If you're impaired and you prevail, then you're going to wish you hadn't been drinking when it comes time to deal with the legal system.

Don't do it is the general rule. And it's a good one.

hso
April 3, 2013, 01:32 PM
So is it as simple as dont go out and get drunk or high if you are someone who carries?

It is that simple. If you carry you should not carry while intoxicated in any way.

Plan2Live
April 3, 2013, 01:35 PM
All aspects of concealed carry require compromise. For me this is an absolute. The legal issues are just too big.

mcdonl
April 3, 2013, 01:36 PM
I would apply the same rules for driving. If you would not be considered impaired or over the limit to drive a vehicle than CCW is no different.

I quit drinking, but when I did there were plenty of times I would have a beer or two on a summer day with friends, drive home and have my CCW... no laws broken, no danger to myself or anyone else.

mljdeckard
April 3, 2013, 01:44 PM
I won't say it's absolute. I'll say it's just like driving. You know what your limit is, don't exceed it. In Utah, the legal standard is the same, .08.

Having said that, understand, there are distinct legal disadvantages. I had a neighbor once who was home having a beer. Halfway through it, her husband called needing help, he had a flat. She went out to meet him, and in the process had a minor collision with his car. No one hurt, minor damage, single owner. But when the police came, she was telling them the story, and included the "I was having a beer" part. They cited her for DUI. She said; "But I'm well under the limit." The didn't care, if she admitted to drinking, and was then involved in an accident, it's DUI.

Now apply this logic to carrying. If you are ever in a shooting, and you are suspected of being intoxicated, now the presumption of innocence has a BIG dent in it.

Greg528iT
April 3, 2013, 01:48 PM
So is it as simple as dont go out and get drunk

I've not gone out to "get drunk" since high school. Pretty much I've grown up since then and while I will partake in a drink or 2, I don't see the need to get drunk. I have occasionally slipped passed in control to a wee bit tipsy. If I was carrying, I would return to my car and safely store my firearm and then pass my keys to a sober companion for a ride home.

J-Bar
April 3, 2013, 01:48 PM
I don't know of any shooting range that permits alcoholic beverages to be consumed while guns are uncased. I wouldn't shoot at any range that does. If you are carrying, you are on the range.

Will Rogers said that drinking and sex are best done at home. He was right, whether you are carrying or not.

mrvco
April 3, 2013, 01:49 PM
Getting high is not actually illegal everywhere anymore.

Neither is carrying while intoxicated universally illegal.

I know the OP mentions 'going out' and drinking, and I'm still trying to understand the majority of opinion here. Is it the 'going out' part that makes carrying unethical? Would a person be within his right to defend himself and his family from an attack of tremendous violence if they were barbecuing at home?

Or does one just simply lose his right to self defense of himself and his family when alcohol has passed his lips? Must he simply stand helplessly disarmed and idle while violence overtakes him or a loved one in such a situation?

What about contact weapons? Would it be more ethical to be armed with a good fighting knife or striking weapon while consuming adult beverages? Is it just about guns then?

My take:

Assuming you do find yourself in the unfortunate situation where you have to defend yourself (regardless of location) and do make all the right and defensible decisions... it is still going to be more difficult to defend your actions if you had been drinking... one drink or a dozen, it is inevitably going to come up during the investigation.

beatledog7
April 3, 2013, 01:50 PM
OP, when is getting "drunk" a good idea?

Mayvik
April 3, 2013, 01:51 PM
There's the law, and there's common sense.

Obey the law or be subject to its wrath.

If the law allows you to drink but not be intoxicated but you're the type of person that does not know their limits and how to remain legal, regularly does stupid things with stupid people while intoxicated, etc then don't drink at all (..and probably not just when carrying...).

tarosean
April 3, 2013, 01:55 PM
TX has a 0.000000% tolerance factor when it comes to CHL and alcohol...

toiville2feathers
April 3, 2013, 01:56 PM
The first rule of conceal carry is to always carry RESPONSIBLY.
If you have to ask a question like that, maybe you shouldn't have a CCW permit. Some states don't allow weapons in a place that serves alcohol or while your using or in possession of illeagal drugs.
We had an incident here in MN when the CCW holder was in the bar and got drunk. He got into an argument (just a mouthfight) and pulled his gun. The owner got the situation under control and got him to leave the bar. So far everything is in the favor of the CCW holder. He is illegal for having a gun in the bar, the owner has not called the police on him, just asked him to leave. The ccw holder leaves with a couple of friends and about 3 minutes later he comes back into the bar and fire 3 shots into the bar. Now the owner calls the LEO, this guy has stepped over the line. Now this bar is located on the Indian Reservation so this violation is a felony under the federal rules. This was at a time when the state was in the process of rewtiting the CCW rules.Of course the antis, the TV and Radio, news papers had a hay day with it for a couple months. That irresponsible SOB gave every CCW owner in the country a black eye because of his ignorance. End of the story he got 3 years in the Federal lock up and he will never be able to possess a gun again.
CCW is a tremendous responsibility and should not be taken in a cavalier attitude. When you make mistakes there is no redo available.

holdencm9
April 3, 2013, 01:58 PM
In my state the limit for BAC is 0.04% which for most people roughly translates to one 12oz beer with a 5% ABV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content#Blood_Alcohol_Level_Chart

Unfortunately, I enjoy craft beer and they come in pints (16oz), and the ABV can be in the 7-10% range, so my general rule is no drinking while carrying. Especially "out." I will drink one 12oz light beer if I am at a friend's or my parents' house, and know I am not going anywhere for a little while, but that's it. It is obviously a very serious matter, but that is what I feel comfortable with. Some people may feel comfortable drinking a bit more, and others have an absolute rule against it.

Also keep in mind, (especially those of you who have a 0.00% no-tolerance rule in your state) you only metabolize so fast, so if you drink one beer that gets you to 0.03% BAC, then wait an hour, you are still probably at about 0.02% and that next beer may put you over the limit. And likewise, if you go out for a night of fun and get drunk, and then only sleep for 6 hours, you could still be impaired the next morning when you wake up and head out.

silicosys4
April 3, 2013, 02:01 PM
To me, its either I carry, OR I intentionally put any amount of an intoxicating substance in my body. Not both, in any amount, ever. Drinking is a voluntary, recreational activity, and if you feel the need to be armed while drinking, I feel you should make better choices in how/where you recreationally drink.
If I feel I need to be armed to drink, I find a better place to drink in which I don't feel the need to be armed. Since I'm drinking and acknowledge that I will generally be in "looser" control of my facilities and actions, I want to be in a safe place anyways away from any chance of conflict.

sota
April 3, 2013, 02:05 PM
I'll just ask this... which is more important: drinking, or having the tools to adequately defend yourself? if drinking is more important, maybe you should evaluate your drinking needs.

We don't stigmatize people who say "no thanks, I'm driving" or "i'm a designated driver", why can't that extend to "no thanks, I'm carrying." (even if you don't want to announce the fact you're carrying. just use the driving excuse.)

I like my alcohols just as much as the next person, but I take into consideration where I am, what I'm doing, and what I plan on doing before I drink.

RetiredUSNChief
April 3, 2013, 02:06 PM
If you're carrying concealed, you're assuming a tremendous responsibility...literally life and death over yourself and those around you.

We preach responsibility when drinking throughout the rest of our mundane lives...why should we not also preach commensurate responsibility whenever we assume the power of life and death when we carry?

I like to have a drink once in a while, myself. But I DON'T drink whenever there is a chance I might be driving and I DON'T drink whenever I carry.

For me, it's that simple.

Others may disagree, for a variety of reasons. But I say that to deliberately compromise your own physical and cognitive abilities whenever you carry is folly.

Make your own bed, knowing the risks you must take when you lie in it. Because you are the one who will suffer the potential consequences for any action you might take thereafter.

Salmoneye
April 3, 2013, 02:17 PM
More Nanny State rules...

No law against that here...

I am a firm believer in that if you treat adults like adults, more often than not, they behave like adults...

Ranger Roberts
April 3, 2013, 02:19 PM
I don't mind knocking a few back with friends here and there but for the most part I have all but stopped going out to bars. If I'm gonna sit back and watch a game or a MMA fight, 99.9% of the time I'm at home. For the once in a while I go out to the bar for a few I make sure of a few things: I disarm, I have a designated driver. If I don't have a designated driver, I won't drink and I will still carry. Totally my opinion, but I'm not willing to mix the 2.

PabloJ
April 3, 2013, 02:23 PM
I know the first rule of concealed carry is always carry because otherwise carrying is pointless. But at the same time i know its wrong to be carrying in a state where the decision making complex and motor control are adversely affected. So is it as simple as dont go out and get drunk or high if you are someone who carries?
Alcohol and firearms mix as well as alcohol and driving a vehicle.:eek:

smalls
April 3, 2013, 02:29 PM
There are just certain things in life you take chances on. If you enjoy heading to the bar now and then, you take a chance of being attacked unarmed. Is going out every once in a while and having fun drinking worth the small chance if being attacked? That's a choice only you can make. I go out probably once a month (I work at a bar, and the discount is just too good to never take advantage of). Kinda the same as going to the post office, or other no gun zones. There's a risk to gain ratio that you need to study, and make your decision.

This is also a good reason to train in some martial arts. It may not save you from an armed attacker, but it could save your skin from most rowdies at the bar.

We don't stigmatize people who say "no thanks, I'm driving" or "i'm a designated driver", why can't that extend to "no thanks, I'm carrying." (even if you don't want to announce the fact you're carrying. just use the driving excuse.)

Working at a bar, I get offered enough free shots every night to kill me. I've had to come up with some funny reasons as to why I can't take a customers, or other employees offers.

mcdonl
April 3, 2013, 02:30 PM
Alcohol and firearms mix as well as alcohol and driving a vehicle.:eek:

My point exactly. If you are under the legal limit AND SAFE to drive, you are fine to carry.

Stevie-Ray
April 3, 2013, 02:34 PM
Absolute in YOUR mind maybe - but not everyone shares that view. Some folks can handle their liquor a whole lot better than others - it is up to each person to know their limitations and act accordingly Correct. In my state it is illegal to carry while drinking-at all. Consequently, I generally don't drink anything alcoholic when out and carrying. Difference is when on private property. I do not "put my gun away" when drinking a beer or two at home, unless I have to suddenly go out. When my next door neighbor asks me over to his man-cave for a get together with the guys, neither one of us disarms. We don't give up our right to self-defense in our own homes and property. Nobody gets crazy or stinking drunk, though the beers are flowing. And neither of us is going to disarm or is even expected to. I go through the gate and not on city property, so I'm never breaking the law.

Sam1911
April 3, 2013, 02:49 PM
First, you follow the laws of the state you are in, religiously! (No, I don't mean, "just on Sundays, Easter, and Christmas.)

Second, as others have said, when is going out in public to get drunk EVER a good idea? For heaven's sake, you carry a GUN (a, to some eyes, extreme measure taken to protect yourself) and yet you'll place yourself in a slowed and impaired state wherein you're far more vulnerable to both physical attack and poor judgement? And do so out in public where you've lost even the comparative static defenses of being on your own property and within your own home? This does not compute.

No. If you're carrying, you have to keep it within the limits of what a) the law allows (if any) and b) your own threshold of impairment. Even when a state (like mine) does not mandate such, I'd use the DWI limit as a good rule of thumb.

I won't disarm just to have a glass of wine with dinner or a couple of beers out with friends. That's taking things far beyond reasonable care. But I will NOT become intoxicated while carrying -- and when I'm out in public ... I'm carrying.

hardheart
April 3, 2013, 03:12 PM
So you leave the gun home...

Are you then able to adequately defend yourself from an attack of deadly force while disarmed?

Or might you be implying that violence never befalls an alcohol consuming individual?

When you refer to 'a state where the decision making complex and motor control are adversely affected', do you mean they are affected in a way that you are so much more able to employ bare-handed deadly force in defense of your life that you need not even carry a gun?

Why does the consumption of alcohol automatically mean that you no longer need an effective weapon for the purposes of self defense?

You cannot adequately defend yourself when drunk. I don't know how many drunk people with brandished guns you have been around, but I've had my fair share.

You are less able to properly employ defense tactics, armed or unarmed, so the inclusion of a force multiplier does nothing to offset the intoxicated state. All it does is exacerbate the problems in reduced judgment and/or heightened aggression in some.

You are almost saying that having a gun offsets being drunk, that effective self defense can still be performed when you cannot by legal definition make decisions, or clearly identify targets, or use fine motor skills.

Some people take the personal rule to the extreme of absolutely no alcohol consumption. You present as having an issue with anyone thinking fall-down drunks maybe shouldn't have a gun on them.

Coop45
April 3, 2013, 03:20 PM
Drinking and carrying is an excellent way to see the inside of a Texas jail.

X-JaVeN-X
April 3, 2013, 03:20 PM
In my opinion Drinking responsibly while carrying is an oxymoron. Don't do it...no exceptions.

mcdonl
April 3, 2013, 03:26 PM
You can drink, without being drunk.

sleepyone
April 3, 2013, 03:30 PM
Sounds like one of those "no brainers" to me meaning a smart person is never going to put himself in a situation where you have to use your weapon after having even just one drink. Now you are the one having to defend your actions even if you were 100% stone cold sober and 100% fully justified in the shooting. Even the act of simply drawing your weapon after having a drink puts you in dangerous legal territory. Aggravated assault is a felony in many cases and I would think mixing alcohol and a gun is one of those; even if you are sober.

Sam1911
April 3, 2013, 03:32 PM
Drinking and carrying is an excellent way to see the inside of a Texas jail.

Yikes! Yet another reason to be glad NOT to be from Texas.

They'll prosecute you NOT for some harm you've DONE, but for some harm you maybe COULD HAVE done. Scary stuff, there.

r1derbike
April 3, 2013, 03:37 PM
I don't drink. So I don't carry when I'm drinking.

What gets me are the numbers here who say I drink and still carry.

Really? Maybe you can. But that's not the point.

Drinking and carrying. I may hear the cries of the antis now, "Yee-Haw"!

Old Dog
April 3, 2013, 03:41 PM
Along with all the other valid points raised, one should also consider the issue of credibility. Regardless of whether one is legally carrying (or not), if one is routinely seen out in public in an intoxicated state, one must be prepared to have one's credibility as an armed citizen questioned ... "Oh yeah, he's a real hard-partyer, but he only packs when he's not drinking ..." I don't want to be that guy. I've been known to imbibe a time or two, but I restrict it to the house or small, private affairs with only friends around, and the guns should remain holstered or locked up if I plan to have more than one drink.

Someone earlier saidGetting high is not actually illegal everywhere anymore.Yes, that may be true in Colorado or Washington states, but per federal law, it's still illegal to buy, possess or carry firearms if one likes to get high.

Arkansas Paul
April 3, 2013, 03:42 PM
They'll prosecute you NOT for some harm you've DONE, but for some harm you maybe COULD HAVE done. Scary stuff, there.

DWI is the same way. You don't have to cause an accident or injury. They prosecute you because drinking and driving escalates the risk of it. Same principle IMO.

Sam1911
April 3, 2013, 03:51 PM
They prosecute you because drinking and driving escalates the risk of it. Same principle IMO.Pretty frightening, isn't it?

Really? Maybe you can. But that's not the point.

Drinking and carrying. I may hear the cries of the antis now, "Yee-Haw"!I comport myself the same way, no matter who's looking. The "antis" can "yee-haw" all they want, but in places like PA it has been legal to carry in bars, and while drinking, for generations and we've given the antis NO fuel for their bonfires over this. Go figure.

mcdonl
April 3, 2013, 03:51 PM
DWI is the same way. You don't have to cause an accident or injury. They prosecute you because drinking and driving escalates the risk of it. Same principle IMO.

Close... they will prosecute you IF YOU ARE OVER THE LIMIT and driving.

There are two factors you need to consider when drinking and driving (or in the case CCW)....

Are you legal? In my state it is .08
Are you safe? That can only be answered by the individual.

Does it complicate matters if you get into a car accident with beer on your breath if your legally sober? Not really. The law is the law.

Arkansas Paul
April 3, 2013, 04:00 PM
Close... they will prosecute you IF YOU ARE OVER THE LIMIT and driving.

Or have an open container in the vehicle. At least in my state.
And Sam, no I don't think that's frightening. I certainly wouldn't advocate that it be legal to drive while intoxicated. Now, the laws do need some changing. For instance, in Arkansas, there is no officer's discretion or prosecutorial discretion when it comes to DWI. The accused must face those specific charges. There is no pleading down to a lesser offense. That seems stupid to me, because someone can plead down from 1st degree murder but not DWI, a misdomeanor.
But that's straying off topic a bit.

Phatty
April 3, 2013, 04:19 PM
There are just certain things in life you take chances on. If you enjoy heading to the bar now and then, you take a chance of being attacked unarmed. Is going out every once in a while and having fun drinking worth the small chance if being attacked? That's a choice only you can make. I go out probably once a month (I work at a bar, and the discount is just too good to never take advantage of). Kinda the same as going to the post office, or other no gun zones. There's a risk to gain ratio that you need to study, and make your decision.

This is also a good reason to train in some martial arts. It may not save you from an armed attacker, but it could save your skin from most rowdies at the bar.



Working at a bar, I get offered enough free shots every night to kill me. I've had to come up with some funny reasons as to why I can't take a customers, or other employees offers.
I agree with you. It is odd to me that a person who enjoys occasionally drinking would give up drinking altogether just so that they will never be disarmed. If you really want to live, you've got to take some risks in life. You can hole up in the safe room of your house your whole life and reduce the risk of getting killed, but then you've stolen your own life.

The chances of actually needing to use your carry weapon are pretty low. Some police officers who have an inherently higher risk of needing to use their carry pistol might go their entire career without having to use it. I don't mean to minimize the need for carrying, because you never know when it might be needed and you'll want to have it when you do, but the same people who worry about going a second without their carry weapon won't think twice about driving a car on the road where the chance of getting injured or killed is quite high.

The line from the first post in this thread that said "the first rule of concealed carry is always carry because otherwise carrying is pointless" is one of the most nonsensical statements I've seen. The whole point of carrying is to reduce the risk of harm to yourself or loved ones. Even if you only carried every other day, that's still a 50% reduction in the risk of harm, which is better than nothing. Carry as much as you can, but don't let it rule your life so much that you don't actually live.

tyeo098
April 3, 2013, 04:20 PM
Coke tastes better than pee-water anyways.

Save the liver, kill the pancreas!

When I DO drink (no matter how much), I'm not carrying. Just a personal rule.

76shuvlinoff
April 3, 2013, 04:34 PM
In Michigan the BAC limit for driving is .08, the limit for carrying is .02 with a bunch of nasty little consequences if you get busted.

I think one beer likely puts me over .02.

Arkansas Paul
April 3, 2013, 04:49 PM
Coke tastes better than pee-water anyways.

With a shot of Makers Mark in it, yes. :)

Mr. Ready
April 3, 2013, 04:50 PM
I agree with you. It is odd to me that a person who enjoys occasionally drinking would give up drinking altogether just so that they will never be disarmed. If you really want to live, you've got to take some risks in life. You can hole up in the safe room of your house your whole life and reduce the risk of getting killed, but then you've stolen your own life.

The chances of actually needing to use your carry weapon are pretty low. Some police officers who have an inherently higher risk of needing to use their carry pistol might go their entire career without having to use it. I don't mean to minimize the need for carrying, because you never know when it might be needed and you'll want to have it when you do, but the same people who worry about going a second without their carry weapon won't think twice about driving a car on the road where the chance of getting injured or killed is quite high.

The line from the first post in this thread that said "the first rule of concealed carry is always carry because otherwise carrying is pointless" is one of the most nonsensical statements I've seen. The whole point of carrying is to reduce the risk of harm to yourself or loved ones. Even if you only carried every other day, that's still a 50% reduction in the risk of harm, which is better than nothing. Carry as much as you can, but don't let it rule your life so much that you don't actually live.
you said "you never know when it might be needed and you'll want to have it when you do" that my point about always carrying

matrem
April 3, 2013, 05:01 PM
Being a beer & bourbon fan for a long time, and a firearms "addict" a bit longer:
I can't tell you that I don't ever carry while drinking, but I can tell you that only happens at my place.

When Ohio upgraded its "carry in restaurant" law, I rediscovered a taste for unsweetened iced tea. (still get people asking if I'm feeling ok, drinking tea instead of Bud)

It's just not worth any chance to me.

holdencm9
April 3, 2013, 05:02 PM
I think one beer likely puts me over .02.

Chances are it does. I posted a link earlier to a wikipedia article that estimates your BAC after x-number of drinks, based on body weight. For me, being about 180 lbs, 1 drink puts me at about 0.03, depending on the ABV of the drink itself. Other factors come into play, obviously. Males tend to have lower BAC's than women, weight being equal, due to having a higher percentage muscle than body fat. It also stands to reason that if you are a lean, muscular 180 lbs (not me by any means), you will process alcohol better than a flubby 180 lbs.

As for carrying 24/7, that is just unrealistic for most people. I can't carry to work regardless, so often times I will partake in happy hours with coworkers. If I am going out to dinner with the wife, I will carry and opt not to drink, and then I can drive and she can have an extra glass, and then she can't complain when I crack a cold one at home later on.

Life is all about balance and risk mitigation. Some people probably would quit their job if they weren't allowed to carry. To me, my livelihood enables me to purchase and train with guns, therefore, it seems counter-productive to quit my job. But again, others may see things differently.

Phatty
April 3, 2013, 05:03 PM
you said "you never know when it might be needed and you'll want to have it when you do" that my point about always carrying
Wearing a bulletproof vest would decrease the risk of being killed by a gunshot wound, but most people do not wear a vest out in public 24/7 because the discomfort and hassle outweigh the perceived reduction in risk, even though you never know when you might need a bullet proof vest. It's all about balancing the risks with the burdens of reducing those risks.

Arkansas Paul
April 3, 2013, 05:08 PM
Life is all about balance and risk mitigation. Some people probably would quit their job if they weren't allowed to carry. To me, my livelihood enables me to purchase and train with guns, therefore, it seems counter-productive to quit my job. But again, others may see things differently.

I'm with you. I would love to carry at work, but as I am frequently in government buildings, including the state capitol building, I cannot even have it in the truck. At least not when I'm at the capitol. And the consequences are too great for me to risk doing it anyway.

Certaindeaf
April 3, 2013, 05:20 PM
I was carrying a Hi-Power and an old AR Colt way up in the mountains in Montana a very long time ago.. about 35 years ago. It was mid-August and I had to throw boulders in the lake to fish.. my feet were actually blue.
I found a half full bottle of JD hanging from twine right at eye level near the laid fire ring. Me and my brother drank that byatch. no one died or nothin

CoRoMo
April 3, 2013, 05:24 PM
You cannot adequately defend yourself when drunk.

You are almost saying that...

You present as having an issue with ...
Have we met? Are you intimately familiar with my skill level? Where did I make a statement in this thread that would lead you to believe that I was 'almost saying' anything? Where did I 'present' a position here?

With the exception of the sentence you are reading now, I have only typed two other sentences that were not interrogative; both of which were merely stating facts to correct some misinformation about what is legal and illegal.

Did you infer a stated position from the questions I asked? Why not just answer each question directly?

jrdolall
April 3, 2013, 05:25 PM
I haven't consumed alcohol in a long time but back in the day, 1980s, I had a firm rule that I left my weapon at home if I was going where alcohol was involved. Now if I was going to dinner with the family where I might have a beer I would carry but going to a bar I refused to take that chance. How many times did we go out to have one or two drinks and then finished the night with a beer or twelve?
Absolutely no different than driving while drinking. No matter how much some people think they can hold their liquor there is a certain amount of impairment involved in alcohol or any other drug (why do it if it doesn't make you feel different) and you should not drive or handle firearms while impaired even a tiny bit. Can you do it and get away with it? Of course you can but why?

Mr. Ready
April 3, 2013, 05:29 PM
would 1 beer it put me over 0.02? Im 200lbs tall but slim. i wouldnt know because i dont drink

USAF_Vet
April 3, 2013, 05:50 PM
Absolute in YOUR mind maybe - but not everyone shares that view. Some folks can handle their liquor a whole lot better than others - it is up to each person to know their limitations and act accordingly
There is always one who thinks they can handle their liquor and be fine to drive, too. Then they find them selves in prison scratching their heads wondering how they wrecked their car and killed some one.

Alcohol and other intoxicating drugs slow reaction time, perception, cognitive abilities, etc.
That is pretty significant when you take into consideration lethal force. If I won't get behind the wheel of my car intoxicated, I'm not going to handle a gun.

There are other ways to defend yourself besides your gun.

Phatty
April 3, 2013, 05:51 PM
would 1 beer it put me over 0.02? Im 200lbs tall but slim. i wouldnt know because i dont drink
Probably not. But a 0.02 BAC for a nondrinker like you would probably have a stronger effect on you than it would with a more frequent drinker.

dirtykid
April 3, 2013, 05:52 PM
To answer the OP's question,,,,,, NO
You should never be DRUNK while carrying,
I seldom go to bars to drink, (too darn expensive)
When we do go out, I am typically the designated driver,
I may have a few drinks throughout the course of the night, but they are spaced apart
in controlled intervals, separated by glasses of water
At 40+ years old, and 250 pounds, I KNOW I can have 1-cocktail per hour with a max
of 3 within 4-hours, and still maintain composure, drive everybody home safely and make rational decisions based on facts not liquor-fueled emotions

oneounceload
April 3, 2013, 05:54 PM
Alcohol and other intoxicating drugs slow reaction time, perception, cognitive abilities, etc.
That is pretty significant when you take into consideration lethal force. If I won't get behind the wheel of my car intoxicated, I'm not going to handle a gun.

There are other ways to defend yourself besides your gun.

I am not disagreeing there - it is the NEVER have a DROP, because OMG, I might have to shoot someone, sometime, on my way to......

Many folks are just fine having a beer or two, some wine with dinner, etc.
Are there those who can't even do that? Yep - which is why it should be up to folks to know their OWN limitations instead of other gun owners trying to restrict someone else's freedom to choose and act in a manner they see fit

thorazine
April 3, 2013, 05:54 PM
In my opinion Drinking responsibly while carrying is an oxymoron. Don't do it...no exceptions.

It's awesome we all got our own opinions. =D

In my opinion I can responsibly carry a concealed firearm at restaurant and enjoy a single glass of wine with my meal.

Stevie-Ray
April 3, 2013, 05:58 PM
In Michigan the BAC limit for driving is .08, the limit for carrying is .02 with a bunch of nasty little consequences if you get busted.Yes and that's total crap. Should be the same as driving. It's also likely to not get changed with a RINO like Snyder in office, even if it does get to his desk.

ObsidianOne
April 3, 2013, 06:00 PM
There aren't any specific laws in my state that one cannot drink while carrying or be drunk while carrying.
However, I do have a few beers now and then, but not to the point of 'impairment'.
If I plan on getting smashed at a bar, I leave it at home (since you can't carry into 99.9% of the bars around here anyway), but I don't usually go to the bar anymore.

I think this is more of a personal question, as if you can't control yourself (some people just don't handle alcohol very well) while intoxicated, you should be intoxicated with a gun, period.

USAF_Vet
April 3, 2013, 06:01 PM
I see where you are comic from, and you might live in a state that allows a higher BAC while carrying a gun. My state is pretty low. Low enough that a single drink could put me over. I'm not willing to risk my CPL over a mug of beer.

It's not nanny state laws that prevent me from drinking while carrying, as someone previously mentioned. It's the fact that I know my limitations, I know myself well enough to know how alcohol effects me. I'm not opposed to having a glass of wine or a beer at home while carrying, either. But consuming alcohol really just isn't that important to me anymore.
I'm not going to question other people's decisions or priorities based on my own choices, either. Bu I'd just as soon able somewhere else if people around me are drinking and carrying. Too much bravado and macho BS can and do occur when guns and alcohol mix in social situations.

X-JaVeN-X
April 3, 2013, 06:03 PM
You can drink, without being drunk.
You can make out with your girlfriend without having sex too...but is that something you really want to do?

Sam1911
April 3, 2013, 06:04 PM
Actually, I think we (most of us) may be missing the OP's actual question here.

I don't see where he's asking our opinions or personal choices regarding whether one should consume alcohol while drinking. That's been hashed out many times, and is even addressed by state law in some places.

I read his question to be more of an S,T&T question: Should someone who takes the responsibility of self-defense upon themselves to the extent that they'd carry a gun, EVER get drunk? (In public...)

In other words, leaving out the question of whether you'd be armed while drinking or not, if you are a committed self-defense advocate and practitioner, can you in good conscience allow yourself to become intoxicated/impaired -- at least in public?

I mean, really that's the fundamental question here. We've gotten sidetracked with the "guns in bars" red herring when the real issue is much more fundamental. If we'd go to the trouble of being "always ready" to face danger, why would we ever do something in public that so hamstrings our ability to observe, evade, and escape danger, talk our way out of problems (rather than INTO them), and to handle ourselves if a physical threat arises?

Stevie-Ray
April 3, 2013, 06:06 PM
But consuming alcohol really just isn't that important to me anymore. Seems as though you get that way. Happened to me also. I always enjoyed a beer with dinner out, but I rarely do now, because I prefer carrying. I will still have a few at home, but again, not if I'm expecting to go out within a few hours. Carrying for me is too important. Drinking is no longer. I just wish Michigan would change it to match DWI.

I read his question to be more of an S,T&T question: Should someone who takes the responsibility of self-defense upon themselves to the extent that they'd carry a gun, EVER get drunk? (In public...)Are private parties considered public? If not, I don't think I've ever in my life been publicly drunk.

Sam1911
April 3, 2013, 06:08 PM
You can drink, without being drunk.
You can make out with your girlfriend without having sex too...but is that something you really want to do?Rather an immature response, I think. If you're drinking "to get drunk" there are other problems you need to address, and maybe you are not quite ready to participate in this debate.

Let's keep this on a plane worthy of THR, ok?

silicosys4
April 3, 2013, 06:09 PM
I'm not willing to risk my CPL over a mug of beer.

I'm not opposed to having a glass of wine or a beer at home while carrying, either. But consuming alcohol really just isn't that important to me anymore.

This. I see the major theme here being that some people think its important to consume alcohol.

Some people "plan" on going to the bar and getting "smashed drunk".

This just isn't my world, I'm not used to being smashed drunk, and don't feel comfortable drinking any amount of alcohol while carrying.
I also generally don't drink, and even small amounts of alcohol to me is intoxicating. That's why I drink it on the very rare occasions that I do drink. Makes me wonder why people drink that one or two beers or wines if they claim they aren't going to feel it, therefore are perfectly safe carrying while drinking
Why drink it then? I'm not saying that you need to be drunk to enjoy alcohol...but come on, arguing that the first 2 beers or glasses of wine might as well be water for all your CNS cares doesn't make sense.

Derry 1946
April 3, 2013, 06:11 PM
Make my alcohol unleaded and vice versa.

Stevie-Ray
April 3, 2013, 06:14 PM
Makes me wonder why people drink that one or two beers or wines if they claim they aren't going to feel it, therefore are perfectly safe carrying while drinking
Why drink it then? Seriously? For the taste. I happen to love beer and I always said if I could find a NA beer that tastes as good as my own brand, I'd drink it. Tried them all.:barf:

Certaindeaf
April 3, 2013, 06:15 PM
Only if you're carrying a Baby Browning. heh, try the veal

silicosys4
April 3, 2013, 06:16 PM
Seriously? For the taste. I happen to love beer and I always said if I could find a NA beer that tastes as good as my own brand, I'd drink it. Tried them all.:barf:

For the taste...Pretty lame reason to carry while intoxicated to any degree, imo. If you can't go without the taste until you get home, you need to re-evaluate. There are plenty of things that taste good that you could drink while carrying that don't intoxicate you.

Edit: Sam, that's a good point, I personally don't enjoy the taste of hops, wine, or alcohol in general, but I'll bet there are some tasty combinations out there. My experiences are mostly with people who drink to feel intoxicated.

Sam1911
April 3, 2013, 06:17 PM
Makes me wonder why people drink that one or two beers or wines if they claim they aren't going to feel it, therefore are perfectly safe carrying while drinking
Why drink it then?As a devoted beer connoisseur, because good beers are vastly interesting and taste GREAT! I can't really recall the last time I felt, or was measurably, intoxicated, but I dearly love exploring all the great facets of the world of the barley and hops.

Again, if you're drinking to feel intoxicated, you really aught to stop.

Warp
April 3, 2013, 06:19 PM
I know the first rule of concealed carry is always carry because otherwise carrying is pointless. But at the same time i know its wrong to be carrying in a state where the decision making complex and motor control are adversely affected. So is it as simple as dont go out and get drunk or high if you are someone who carries?

Works for me.

I think that's a good rule to follow whether you carry or not.

Part of the 'don't do stupid things, go stupid places, or be with stupid people' thing

My take:

Assuming you do find yourself in the unfortunate situation where you have to defend yourself (regardless of location) and do make all the right and defensible decisions... it is still going to be more difficult to defend your actions if you had been drinking... one drink or a dozen, it is inevitably going to come up during the investigation.

I agree with this as well.

I would SO much rather have a 0.000 BAC, be able to say "no" if asked if I had anything to drink, and have anybody and everybody there say they didn't see me drink anything but Soda/water.

Nickel Plated
April 3, 2013, 06:56 PM
I would say that if you're too drunk to drive, you're too drunk to carry. One or two beers is fine if you're not a lightweight. Keep in mind some places in Europe serve alcohol at shooting ranges. It's a matter of tolerance. If 2 beers gets you acting like a fool then no, don't drink and carry.

To me personally, it is kind of an absolute rule. I tend to not know my limit when drinking (I can admit that much) if I drink, I make a night of it until I'm passed out under a table somewhere. At which point I'm not carrying (or atleast storing it somewhere safe until I sober up again)
If drinking hard is not allowed under the current circumstances, then I mostly see no point in even starting.

Agsalaska
April 3, 2013, 07:01 PM
I know the first rule of concealed carry is always carry because otherwise carrying is pointless. But at the same time i know its wrong to be carrying in a state where the decision making complex and motor control are adversely affected. So is it as simple as dont go out and get drunk or high if you are someone who carries?

Deleted. I was swaying way off topic.

Warp
April 3, 2013, 07:03 PM
First off, the first rule is nonsense.It's all about risk and reward. If I was so paranoid about having to defend myself I that I had to carry 100% of the time then I would miss out on a heck of a lot. I am willing to risk the threat of attack, which is generally very minute to begin with, to enjoy my life. Let's see, the things I would miss out on-weekly happy hour with my buddies, college football games, Texas Rangers baseball games, my job, cruises, vacation in Europe, my children's school plays, did I mention my good job. That is just off the top of my head. Why in the world would I give all of those things up just to carry a gun 100% of the time. Some people may say that I should. Each to their own I guess.

It is unfortunate that all of those places are off limits in your state.

X-JaVeN-X
April 3, 2013, 07:10 PM
Rather an immature response, I think. If you're drinking "to get drunk" there are other problems you need to address, and maybe you are not quite ready to participate in this debate.

Let's keep this on a plane worthy of THR, ok?
lol...i don't drink anymore other than an occasional shot of bourbon (keep it in the cabinet for cooking) at home because it works faster than tylenol...My point remains the same if you actually care to look for it instead of looking down your nose...How many videos are floating around the interwebz of people being pulled over and believe that they aren't drunk as they are stumbling around the cop that's giving them a sobriety test? The notion that only the drinker can tell if they are drunk is absurd. That's kind of what alcohol does...impairs the ability to make rash decisions. "I only had a couple beers officer...." There is a reason that line is so cliche... Telling yourself that that would never happen to you, is just a way of rationalizing yourself into a jail cell. There is a reason the slogan is "Don't drink and drive", and not "Don't drink more than a couple and drive." The same goes for drinking and carrying...Do gun owners really want to give anti's another reason to take away our rights? Drinking, even "socially", and carrying just cracks the door open for someone to do something stupid, quickly followed by the crap-storm of negative press.

...or you could just not drink and carry...seems like a much simpler and logical idea.

Agsalaska
April 3, 2013, 07:11 PM
Actually, I think we (most of us) may be missing the OP's actual question here.

I don't see where he's asking our opinions or personal choices regarding whether one should consume alcohol while drinking. That's been hashed out many times, and is even addressed by state law in some places.

I read his question to be more of an S,T&T question: Should someone who takes the responsibility of self-defense upon themselves to the extent that they'd carry a gun, EVER get drunk? (In public...)

In other words, leaving out the question of whether you'd be armed while drinking or not, if you are a committed self-defense advocate and practitioner, can you in good conscience allow yourself to become intoxicated/impaired -- at least in public?

I mean, really that's the fundamental question here. We've gotten sidetracked with the "guns in bars" red herring when the real issue is much more fundamental. If we'd go to the trouble of being "always ready" to face danger, why would we ever do something in public that so hamstrings our ability to observe, evade, and escape danger, talk our way out of problems (rather than INTO them), and to handle ourselves if a physical threat arises?
To that point, probably not. You should probably not drink in public no matter the law. Alcohol will, and does, impair your judgement. There is no getting around it. You will be slower in every mental aspect and clumsier in every physical aspect. So if you commit yourself to that point 100% of the time, then I would say no.

That being said, in my opinion that is a little silly as is the 'first rule of carrying'. It's silly to me to be so dedicated, or paranoid, about personal safety that you would not disarm for certain things in life. I can't carry a gun into school andi am not missing my daughters plays for example. It seems you miss out on a lot in life if you dedicate yourself to that extreme. Another good example, to stay on topi, would be the happy hour I am about to walk to and the buckets of beer we are going to drink. Why in the world would I miss out on that?

Warp
April 3, 2013, 07:13 PM
To that point, probably not. You should probably not drink in public no matter the law. Alcohol will, and does, impair your judgement. There is no getting around it. You will be slower in every mental aspect and clumsier in every physical aspect. So if you commit yourself to that point 100% of the time, then I would say no.

That being said, in my opinion that is a little silly as is the 'first rule of carrying'. It's silly to me to be so dedicated, or paranoid, about personal safety that you would not disarm for certain things in life. I can't carry a gun into school andi am not missing my daughters plays for example. It seems you miss out on a lot in life if you dedicate yourself to that extreme. Another good example, to stay on topi, would be the happy hour I am about to walk to and the buckets of beer we are going to drink. Why in the world would I miss out on that?

Missing your daughter's play vs not being able to drink alcohol...I'm not seeing how those are comparable unless the person is an alcoholic

X-JaVeN-X
April 3, 2013, 07:15 PM
As a devoted beer connoisseur, because good beers are vastly interesting and taste GREAT! I can't really recall the last time I felt, or was measurably, intoxicated, but I dearly love exploring all the great facets of the world of the barley and hops.

Again, if you're drinking to feel intoxicated, you really aught to stop.
You can do the same thing with soda...and you'll never get a sobriety check for your sugar level. Buy a soda stream and knock yourself out...lol

bergmen
April 3, 2013, 07:16 PM
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u580/Bergmen/Firearms%20and%20Shooting/Handguns/31356874-da78-48a1-9f7c-4163ced3adac_zpseca3430a.jpg

Dan

Warp
April 3, 2013, 07:17 PM
So the holder of that license can only carry the three that are listed?

That really, really sucks

There are definitely states out there that allow you to drink while carrying, legally, though

Sergei Mosin
April 3, 2013, 07:17 PM
<Dos Equis guy> I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer a designated driver - and defender. </Dos Equis guy>

What I mean is, on the occasions when I choose to go out and have a drink, I don't drive, and I don't carry. I let somebody else do those things. There are times when I am the designated driver, and on those occasions, I carry. Call me the designated defender.

Alcohol doesn't mix with guns and cars. The most complicated thing I want to operate when I'm drinking is the TV remote.

hardheart
April 3, 2013, 07:17 PM
Have we met? Are you intimately familiar with my skill level? Where did I make a statement in this thread that would lead you to believe that I was 'almost saying' anything? Where did I 'present' a position here?

With the exception of the sentence you are reading now, I have only typed two other sentences that were not interrogative; both of which were merely stating facts to correct some misinformation about what is legal and illegal.

Did you infer a stated position from the questions I asked? Why not just answer each question directly?
Do we have to meet for anyone on the planet to understand the effects of alcohol on the human body? Are you some sort of super human that loses no ability to judge, move, or react when drunk? And I did specifically say drunk, as drunk was also used in the opening post. Perhaps you are, or at least believe to be, above the effects of alcohol.

Your questions were pretty silly, so I was taking them as implied statements. But if you want an honest answer to something composed like "Do you think people are better unarmed fighters when drunk?" then get someone else to answer. I'm still busy writing out a response to someone else who asked me if the sky was purple.

BBQJOE
April 3, 2013, 07:21 PM
It looks like the majority think that if you have had drink, and are mugged, and it is considered a self defense, "good shoot" that there will be a court battle?

IIRC, at least in AZ, if it is proper self defense, there is protection from civil liability.
I don't go to bars, and I don't drink excessively, especially in public.
But if I am in public for some reason, and have a buzz on, and am assaulted, I will respond as needed, and sort the rest out later. Thank you.

Some people can't have a drink without getting belligerent, over emotional, or even violent.
I am not one of those.

There are laws, yes, and way too many of them.
Sometimes we follow them as we see fit.

By following some laws all the time, you might not always fair well.
Who is to tell where and when?

I'm willing to be seat belts have caused death.

bergmen
April 3, 2013, 07:21 PM
So the holder of that license can only carry the three that are listed?

That really, really sucks

There are definitely states out there that allow you to drink while carrying, legally, though

I have four listed. There are no limits.

Dan

Agsalaska
April 3, 2013, 07:23 PM
Missing your daughter's play vs not being able to drink alcohol...I'm not seeing how those are comparable unless the person is an alcoholic
Ok. The point goes back to the post that I deleted but not before you commented on. It's about risk reward. I can risk the very minute possibility of needing a gun for a couple of hours after work to have some drinks with friends. I can risk it to go to my child's play. I can risk it to go on vacations. I can risk it to go to a football game. The risk is not greater than the reward. I wouldn't want to live a life where I couldn't do all of those things just because I couldn't put down a gun.

Sorry if this pulls us off topic.

Warp
April 3, 2013, 07:24 PM
It looks like the majority think that if you have had drink, and are mugged, and it is considered a self defense, "good shoot" that there will be a court battle?


I think people are saying that the fact you were drinking could play a role in it NOT just being immediately written off as self defense or a "good shoot"

hardheart
April 3, 2013, 07:24 PM
I'm willing to be seat belts have caused death.
I'm willing to bet it was actually car crashes that did it. So, either don't wear a seat belt, or don't wreck your car. Tough choice on which to follow.

Sam1911
April 3, 2013, 07:33 PM
You can do the same thing with soda...and you'll never get a sobriety check for your sugar level. Buy a soda stream and knock yourself out...lolSoda? Yuk. But thanks Mom!

Why have a beer? Why have dinner out in the first place? There's perfectly acceptable food and drink at home in the fridge, right? All the nutrients, none of the risks!

But, no, fortunately I don't have to make that choice.

Everyone has to figure out what personal balance of risks makes them most comfortable. For some, going unarmed on vacation in an unknown city is perfectly acceptable, but having a beer in their home town while carrying is way too risky. For others, that balance is exactly the opposite.

Follow the law and accept responsibility (and repercussions) for your actions and decisions.

au01st
April 3, 2013, 07:40 PM
Depending on what I'm doing for dinner I will often have a beer or two that pairs with the food. I try and have a local brew wherever I am, and find that I don't want to drink more than one or two as they usually cost $4-$5 per glass. I am always carrying except when in a bar, which is illegal per my CC permit (OC is technically legal but you will be asked to leave). I'm planning to go to the bar with friends this Friday night and though I won't be drinking (designated driver) I will be disarmed. It's a risk I accept. It's not that I don't want to drink at the bar, it's just expensive; the $50 I spend on liquids could be spent on brass/lead the next day and provide more enjoyment.

kwguy
April 3, 2013, 07:40 PM
Follow the law and accept responsibility (and repercussions) for your actions and decisions.

This.

Zoogster
April 3, 2013, 07:46 PM
Agsalaska said:

It's silly to me to be so dedicated, or paranoid, about personal safety that you would not disarm for certain things in life.


Well another way to look at it is that having to disarm on a regular basis is actually more dangerous than just being able to carry.
So while you may be perfectly content not having a firearm, having more places with such restrictions means you have to change where the gun is when you otherwise would not have had to.



Dangerous when it comes to the firearm being manipulated or removed (and by law unloaded some places when left behind) instead of just sitting there in its holster on you.

Dangerous when it requires removal of the firearm unexpectedly which then gets placed somewhere less secure, more likely to be stolen, or with unexpected access to children or others. That gun you stuffed someplace in the car because you couldn't just wear it? What about if forgotten there, or the wife or family member having problems with the kid takes them back to the car ahead of you, or that person that shouldn't have access ends up back in the vehicle. And that is with a car/truck. Try dealing with such crap on a motorcycle.

Dangerous when being removed because of random people that can see the gun. Make a call or complaint. Or learn you are carrying when you would rather have not let them know. Or have someone that may choose to try and break in or steal that firearm see you remove or store it.
Having to remove a firearm in public has a lot of extra risks associated with other people seeing it.



When you decide to go out to dinner you shouldn't have to suddenly expose yourself to such things.



As for alcohol itself. I know some people with little change in decision making. I also have seen many with very altered decision making. Those with altered decision making also are not suitable for making that determination of themselves as they are biased.
Everyone has changes to fine motor skills and reaction time.
I think nobody should drive and drink, that is an action that requires constant adjusted input that is severely impacted by reduced motor control and slowed reaction time.
But some can carry and drink, have an argument or be presented with a bad situation and make perfectly sound decisions. Carry is less related, it does not require constant adjustments like driving. The gun sits there and decision making on whether it stays there is more important.

Unfortunately we base our perceptions on that large number that with slightly reduced inhibitions are barely in control, while others have such strong inhibitions alcohol has less impact.
So all I can say is there is definately people I don't think should have a gun around if they have had a drink.
While at the same time others would be fine.
Some in between.
I have drank with a gun plenty of times, but knowing how immature others can become after a drink and think they are just fine, I don't know.


Certainly one should not make a habit of it. But what sounds like a good idea on paper turns into impractical reality for some. Have to disarm to go out to eat. Have to disarm while camping and sitting around the fire?
I mean many of us have a drink at home where we have immediate or nearly immediate access to a firearm. Is one safely secured on your body that much different?

Also when combined with other places one may not be able to carry like say the child's school they pick them up at, the post office they visit regularly, place of employment for some, etc it adds to the complication of carrying, making it less likely someone will carry most of the time.
It just becomes too much hassle.

So suddenly it becomes less about be paranoid about disarming some of the time, and contributing to whether one carries most of the time or almost never. For the large number even with a permit that rarely carry, it no longer really provides much protection because it is just too much of a pain.

BSA1
April 3, 2013, 07:51 PM
Just to clarify just because your bal for alcohol is below the legal limit for D.U.I. it does not mean you are still not impaired and does not mean you can not be arrested.

All the purpose of the bal limit is to make to establish a easy measurable standard to establish guilt. The blood alcohol level has nothing to do with whether you are actually impaired and, if so, to what degree. I have known many hard drinkers, most probably alcoholics or close to it, that function and, in fact can not function normally, unless they are "loaded".

As a LEO a lower bal then the legal limit just made my case harder, but not impossible, to prove that the driver was impaired enough to convince the judge of his guilt.

In regards to carrying and drinking it really is just a simple yes or no choice. Drinking is a voluntary recreational activity whose only purpose is to alter the mood of the drinker. It is well documented and well known by almost every adult in America that drinking affects the persons judgement.

As such this is in the category of "But for the grace of God go I."

au01st
April 3, 2013, 08:08 PM
Drinking is a voluntary recreational activity whose only purpose is to alter the mood of the drinker. It is well documented and well known by almost every adult in America that drinking affects the persons judgement.

Find me a drink that tastes like a good IPA without the alcohol and I can have one of those with a meal instead. Drinking does not have just one purpose. Some beers taste great and complement the food, enhancing the entire meal. I could use your argument about firearms having only one purpose, but I bet you'd disagree?

Cosmoline
April 3, 2013, 08:09 PM
Drinking is not the same as getting drunk. I frequently drink, but almost never get even mildly intoxicated. I did last October when friends came to town, and made a point of not carrying then. But alcohol with dinner? I'm not going to disarm myself for that.

Drinking is a voluntary recreational activity whose only purpose is to alter the mood of the drinker.

Alcoholic beverages include garbage I'd never drink under any circumstances. Malt liquor, PBR, Coors, etc. I won't touch them. The sole purpose for those beverages is probably to alter the mood of the poor guys who have to drink them. But there are other beverages that happen to be alcoholic which are nevertheless the finest products of human civilization. In all the universe there may be a lot of booze, but there is only one Laphroaig. You drink such beverages for the sublime and incredibly complex taste, not to get blotto. And heck even beer has gotten good thanks to the microbrew revolution of the 80's and 90's. As au01st notes, there are some fine IPA's out there now. I love some of our local brews. We even have a couple of meaderies now. I've never gotten drunk on mead and wouldn't want to! Lord knows what that would do to you.

There are big cultural and generational differences at play here. For some drinking means getting blotto with friends. For others it means exploring a new taste. If you're in the former group, by all means disarm.

Agsalaska
April 3, 2013, 08:09 PM
Zoogster, that is the best post I have read on THR this week. Kudos.

I will say that if I could carry 100 percent of the time I would. And the restrictions probably make it more dangerous for me at times, especially with two very young kids. And I am probably completely guilty of your last paragraph. Sometimes it does seem easier to just say to heck with it. Although I try not to do that.


Thanks

CmdrSlander
April 3, 2013, 08:13 PM
My frequent handling of and ready access to firearms is one of the reasons I do not partake.

Carl N. Brown
April 3, 2013, 08:24 PM
Should someone who carries never get drunk?

Someone who carries should never get drunk while carrying.

gym
April 3, 2013, 08:34 PM
9 Posts, and a leading question, if I ever saw one. Of course you don't get drunk if you are carrying a gun. If you get high, you don't belong here to begin with. Guns and alcohol don't mix, if you plan on drinking more than 1 or 2 with dinner, stay home and drink there, or leave your gun at home. Simple enough?

Deltaboy
April 3, 2013, 08:35 PM
No no no never!

Warp
April 3, 2013, 08:38 PM
9 Posts, and a leading question, if I ever saw one. Of course you don't get drunk if you are carrying a gun. If you get high, you don't belong here to begin with. Guns and alcohol don't mix, if you plan on drinking more than 1 or 2 with dinner, stay home and drink there, or leave your gun at home. Simple enough?

I disagree with this as an absolute statement.

Agsalaska
April 3, 2013, 08:43 PM
I was going to make the same comment Warp but I didn't want to risk the thread. I totally disagree with that statement in a number of ways.

gym
April 3, 2013, 09:27 PM
Since this is not a confessional, my advice would be to leave this where it is. What anyone eludes to that skirts the legal aspect of the discussion is not necessary here.
I know of no other "legal" substance, that fits into the topic, other than substances which may not be, allowed by law, unless you have Glaucoma, or some other serious disease, thus the feeling of being compelled to offer up that sort of information is not needed and plays into the leading question part.
I have never seen anyone do anything better "high" than they did when sober. thus it would seem to be fairly simple to agree that when you are out, and carrying a gun, you would want to be at your absolute best, thus sober.

Torian
April 3, 2013, 09:32 PM
I view getting drunk as getting HAMMERED, not how the various states interpret it. Either way, I'm very careful even having any alcohol when carrying.

As a rule, I will usually only drink a beer or two, and even then sometimes not at all. I guess my answer to your question would be no.

BSA1
April 3, 2013, 09:36 PM
Find me a drink that tastes like a good IPA without the alcohol and I can have one of those with a meal instead. Drinking does not have just one purpose. Some beers taste great and complement the food, enhancing the entire meal. I could use your argument about firearms having only one purpose, but I bet you'd disagree?

The word "only" is very restrictive and I did not use it lighty. However I'll concede that drinking alcohol does have other purposes that are actually healthy. For example drinking a beer is a safer choice than drinking water when in a location where the water quality is unknown.

On the other hand your statement about beers taste great and complement the food shows that it does alter the mood of the drinker...the food tastes better when I drink and that it is a voluntary recreational activity.

As for firearms having only one purpose I will state for civilian use in America it's purpose is to guarantee that I am equal to all other men and remain free as stated in 1776;

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

A free man can enjoy use of firearms for other purposes...a slave can not but we are getting off track here. What we are discussing here is the management of two risky activities, consumption of alcohol and the carrying of firearms. Both when properly managed are safe enjoyable activities. But the margin of error is small and the consequences are hugh.

rookorami
April 3, 2013, 10:17 PM
I am of the school of thought that one or two with dinner isn't a deal breaker. That being said I know for me personally 1-2 beers/ounces of liquor/glasses of wine especially with food will not only keep me within legal limits but well within my limits of sound judgement. As such it is always a safer bet, legally, to have nothing in your system. Consult the laws for your state and the amount of risk you wish to take and make an informed decision. Absolutes can be dangerous so I tend to shy away from them.

Agsalaska
April 3, 2013, 10:31 PM
Since this is not a confessional, my advice would be to leave this where it is. What anyone eludes to that skirts the legal aspect of the discussion is not necessary here.
I know of no other "legal" substance, that fits into the topic, other than substances which may not be, allowed by law, unless you have Glaucoma, or some other serious disease, thus the feeling of being compelled to offer up that sort of information is not needed and plays into the leading question part.
I have never seen anyone do anything better "high" than they did when sober. thus it would seem to be fairly simple to agree that when you are out, and carrying a gun, you would want to be at your absolute best, thus sober.
Yea but that's has nothing to do with what you actually said. You said they shouldn't be posting here.

Never mind I will let it go. You are right about one thing at least. Probably not for THR

Domina
April 3, 2013, 10:38 PM
Personal philosophy is to do nothing that would impare my situational awareness, decision making, reaction time, or precision while carrying. Defense of lethal force use if ever warranted or needed would only be complicated by any involvement with alchohol, no matter how small the quantity. Not worth the risks in my book.

How about a appointing a designated carrier along with the driver?

River Wraith
April 3, 2013, 10:40 PM
I'm of the opinion that being out of control is a bad thing so I limit myself to minimal alcohol. I don't like beer, but rum and tequila are my preferred beverages when I partake.

Arkansas Paul
April 3, 2013, 11:24 PM
Drinking is a voluntary recreational activity whose only purpose is to alter the mood of the drinker.

Total and utter B.S. That's like saying that handguns' only purpose is to kill people, or that "assault weapons" are only good for war and killing. Don't throw so wide a loop.
I have a drink or two probably a couple nights a week. And I mean a drink or two, not six or eight. My mood is not altered by 2 drinks.
I do agree with you that at a certain point, drinking alters judgment. That is common sense.
I'm guessing by your post that you do not drink at all, and that's great. But don't lump everyone who has a couple in the same category as raging drunks, because it seems like that's what you're doing.

spoogie
April 3, 2013, 11:40 PM
If I had to sum it up, I would say drink until your judgement is impaired. If you don't know where this line is, don't drink.

On the other hand, you should obey the law, some real smart politicians got together and wrote some simple language that's supposed to apply to every situation. *wink*

This is the game we play; the rules we must abide by.

Fairly straightforward and simple until you get into the courtroom and the prosecuting and defending attorney spin arguments around what the smart politician set in stone in the law books.

Seems like the murderer breaks the law and gets a slap on the wrist. You break it, and get the gallows.

Roll the dice, or don't. Responsibility is on one end of the spectrum.

-S

jrdolall
April 3, 2013, 11:47 PM
Sam said:
I don't see where he's asking our opinions or personal choices regarding whether one should consume alcohol while drinking

Sam were you consuming alcohol while drinking when you typed that?

silicosys4
April 4, 2013, 12:10 AM
If I had to sum it up, I would say drink until your judgement is impaired. If you don't know where this line is, don't drink.

-S


Theron lies the fundamental problem, you are trusting yourself to draw a very important line at a point at which you are losing your ability to correctly draw very important lines. How many people have killed other people in dwi accidents after having that very same conversation with themselves?

Judgement impaired people tend to think their judgement is impaired like crazy people think they are crazy.....they don't, in my experience.

Look, if you are out and sip a beer during dinner, that's one thing. But strapping on a gun to go out when you know there will be a good chance you'll have to draw that line with yourself.....

sleepyone
April 4, 2013, 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gym View Post
9 Posts, and a leading question, if I ever saw one. Of course you don't get drunk if you are carrying a gun. If you get high, you don't belong here to begin with. Guns and alcohol don't mix, if you plan on drinking more than 1 or 2 with dinner, stay home and drink there, or leave your gun at home. Simple enough?

I disagree with this as an absolute statement.

After all, isn't this forum called The HIGH Road!? :neener:

asia331
April 4, 2013, 01:13 AM
Moot point really; one should refrain from drunkenness under any circumstance.

HorseSoldier
April 4, 2013, 01:27 AM
Close... they will prosecute you IF YOU ARE OVER THE LIMIT and driving.

Not quite. The legal limit is the presumptive legal limit -- above that level you are presumed to be sufficiently impaired that you can be charged with operating under the influence based solely on that fact. Below the presumptive limit, you can still be arrested, charged, and prosecuted based on additional evidence and the totality of the circumstances. Personally I've arrested for DUI at what a BrAC showed to .06 but the suspect was stumbling around so badly they could not safely complete standardized field sobriety tests. I've also arrested at even lower levels (including blowing triple zeroes) when there was obvious impairment (drugs being involved).

Up here a huge percentage of crimes of violence involve alcohol, including assaults and homicides with firearms. Carrying deadly implements and consuming substances that impair your decision making is inherently irresponsible. (Here in AK, it's also a crime to be a drunk in possession or carrying in bars, but that's besides the philosophical/moral issue.)

BigBore44
April 4, 2013, 07:05 AM
"With great power comes great responsibility." I think this holds true for this thread. I personally don't go to bars by myself. I dont enjoy it. When my friends and I go it's usually between 5 and 10 of us. I'm the smallest guy of the group and I'm 5'11" and 190. We also make a point to make friends with the bouncers and bar keeps. We rarely have problems. But we may be the exception. None of us carry when we go out. And we have never had an instance where we needed to. "Cooler heads prevail" is what we go by. And if there ever is a problem that can't be handled by cooler heads, it's handled very quickly and very assuredly.

I wouldn't want to stand before a jury, in today's day and age, and try to defend shooting someone when I had alcohol in my system when the shooting took place. Makes me cringe just to think about it.

mcdonl
April 4, 2013, 07:15 AM
You can make out with your girlfriend without having sex too...but is that something you really want to do?

Umm.. Yeah, thats the RESPONSIBLY part of this equation. Some of us can act responsibly and control our impulses. As far as the girlfriend. I agree, if my wife finds out I was kissing a girl I better have had sex with her.

gdcpony
April 4, 2013, 07:21 AM
Without reading everything, I will give a cheap opinion. You can take it or leave it. Come to my house and you are welcome to carry open or concealed. Come to my house and we may share a drink or two or more depending on how good of friends we are- and how much you brought. We will ask for your keys, I will put up my guns, and I will ask for yours to be given up until we are sober again. Hopefully, if we are drinking together you have enough faith in me to know you will get it back.

Out in town? Don't know since I only drink at home and rarely at that. I would NEVER carry if I was planning to drink. Not only because I feel against it, but because of the liability of it. No matter the level a liberal prosecutor would have a field day running me across the coals.

My wife and I have lost a combined 5 family members to impaired drivers and my cousin is still paralyzed from another. It makes it a bigger issue for us.

Lex Luthier
April 4, 2013, 07:48 AM
Wow. Six pages and 172 responses.

People drink because they like the effect alcohol has on their mood. Period. Defend it all you like, but if drinking didn't make you "feel" better, then you wouldn't have such burning desire to do it, let alone so emphatically defend the practice. There are thousands of undiagnosed alcoholics out there, some very smart and articulate, yet still susceptible to the deleterious effects of drink. Quantity is irrelevant. Some advanced alcoholics can get "drunk" on one or two beers.

"Normal" drinkers never get drunk, nor do they get DUIs or suffer any legal problems due to their drinking.

I am lucky to be allergic to alcohol, so any potential clouded moments of indecision due to alcohol are not a problem for me. I am not calling everyone a drunk, but remember an alcoholic will take the same tack to defend their behavior.

Gaiudo
April 4, 2013, 07:57 AM
Drinking is a voluntary recreational activity whose only purpose is to alter the mood of the drinker

People drink because they like the effect alcohol has on their mood. Period. Defend it all you like, but if drinking didn't make you "feel" better, then you wouldn't have such burning desire to do it, let alone so emphatically defend the practice.

Complete and utter garbage, and ignorant garbage at that. I don't share a $300 bottle of Brunello de Montalchino to get drunk, buzzed, intoxicated, or any such nonsense. I drink that $75 glass of wine because it is an incredible liquid artform, nuanced, enhancing the flavor of the steak in front of me. It doesn't affect my mood. I've drunk wine and beer for 20 years, gone to innumerable wine tastings, and never in my life have I been drunk or even mildly intoxicated.

You're allergic to alcohol, Lex Luther, so apparently don't have sufficient experience or knowledge base to be making such a strongly established opinion. This really is a silly statement.

mcdonl
April 4, 2013, 08:11 AM
I know the first rule of concealed carry is always carry because otherwise carrying is pointless.


Laws and real life make this impossible. We all have places we cannot carry in this country.

But at the same time i know its wrong to be carrying in a state where the decision making complex and motor control are adversely affected.

True.

So is it as simple as dont go out and get drunk or high if you are someone who carries?

What does "someone who carries" mean? Should someone never get drunk because they posses a CCW permit? Thats silly.

If your statement were "someone who is carrying" thats a whole different story. Just like drinking versus drunk are two different things.

So... final answer. To each his own regarding how much drinking is safe (Unless your state tells you otherwise).

But common to all of us...

NO ONE SHOULD EVER GET DRUNK AND CARRY.

NO ONE SHOULD EVER GET HIGH AND CARRY

holdencm9
April 4, 2013, 09:13 AM
Drinking is a voluntary recreational activity whose only purpose is to alter the mood of the drinker.

People drink because they like the effect alcohol has on their mood. Period. Defend it all you like, but if drinking didn't make you "feel" better, then you wouldn't have such burning desire to do it, let alone so emphatically defend the practice.

:banghead:

Total and utter B.S.

Complete and utter garbage, and ignorant garbage at that.

I concur. I can understand how some people who don't drink can't understand the draw though. It is an acquired/honed taste. If the only beer you ever had was the cheap stuff in college, and you resigned yourself to not liking it, you probably won't like a double IPA or russian imperial stout, either. But that doesn't mean they don't taste like divine creations to others.

Seems we have a lot of people who don't even drink chiming in, so take those responses with a grain of salt. We also seem to have a lot of avid beer or wine enthusiasts, who enjoy the finer things in life, but don't get wasted. So far I haven't seen one response of "I go and get smashed while carrying, all the time!" So I think the answer to the OP is definitely a big affirmative, and most of the debate is around whether or not you should have a zero-tolerance policy, or if you should trust your limits, and that appears to me to be a debate that will never be resolved here. To echo for the 20th or so time, know the law in your state and know your limits and act responsibly (at all times, but especially while carrying).

GAF
April 4, 2013, 09:35 AM
My rule for myself is that outside my home while carrying I drink no alcohol.

I think we all know a person or two that has a couple of drinks and their personality changes . Not for the good most of the time.

Warp
April 4, 2013, 09:39 AM
Wow. Six pages and 172 responses.

People drink because they like the effect alcohol has on their mood. Period. Defend it all you like, but if drinking didn't make you "feel" better, then you wouldn't have such burning desire to do it, let alone so emphatically defend the practice. There are thousands of undiagnosed alcoholics out there, some very smart and articulate, yet still susceptible to the deleterious effects of drink. Quantity is irrelevant. Some advanced alcoholics can get "drunk" on one or two beers.

"Normal" drinkers never get drunk, nor do they get DUIs or suffer any legal problems due to their drinking.

I am lucky to be allergic to alcohol, so any potential clouded moments of indecision due to alcohol are not a problem for me. I am not calling everyone a drunk, but remember an alcoholic will take the same tack to defend their behavior.

Telling other people why they do things, when they disagree with you...in my experience that just doesn't go over very well.

I like to call it 'projection'.

Garmangabis
April 4, 2013, 09:59 AM
I chose between guns and alcohol 25 years ago.

I don't miss drinking.

Tinpig
April 4, 2013, 10:30 AM
Should someone who carries never get drunk?

Of course they should, if they want to...just not while carrying.

Tinpig

kwguy
April 4, 2013, 10:38 AM
I guess if you remain within the limits of what the law, your wallet, your conscience, or your career can handle, anyone can do what they want.

Sam1911
April 4, 2013, 10:41 AM
I guess if you remain within the limits of what the law, your wallet, your conscience, or your career can handle, anyone can do what they want.
What a fantastic way to wrap up a thread based on telling each other what we think folks should do! :D

DsbJax
April 4, 2013, 10:53 AM
I think there are two levels to this question, if my wife and I are going out to eat and I have a single glass of wine with my meal I have no problem carrying. Now let’s change the situation. Since in Florida you can't carry in a bar I'm heading over to a friend’s house for a party where I know I will be having a few drinks, the gun stays in the car at a minimum or at home.

If I'm having the party at my house where I know people will be drinking, all the guns will be securely stored.

Neo-Luddite
April 4, 2013, 11:18 AM
Know your own limits (in all respects for that matter) and act accordingly within the confines of the law. For me, If I shouldn't be driving, I probably shouldn't be carrying.

foghornl
April 4, 2013, 12:25 PM
If you are allowed to consume while carrying varies from state-to-state.

For me, I'm too old, too slow, and too uncoordinated to consume and carry.

gym
April 4, 2013, 12:25 PM
If you shoot someone, in your home or out of your home, you will be tested for drugs and alcohol. If you are inside your home even if you were drunk, if you had a valid reason for shooting the individual, you would be legally ok.
He came in to "your" house. There is no law against you drinking in someone's house or your own. there are laws that make it illegal to "use a gun while intoxicated" and "using it" will no doubt cause you a problem, even if you were right.
As far as what I said earlier about getting high, I should have prefaced it by saying you shouldn't be here discussing it. The following is Florida law,
"quote"
790.151 Using firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages, chemical substances, or controlled substances; penalties.—
(1) As used in ss. 790.151-790.157, to “use a firearm” means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.

(2) For the purposes of this section, “readily accessible for immediate discharge” means loaded and in a person’s hand.

(3) It is unlawful and punishable as provided in subsection (4) for any person who is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111, or any substance controlled under chapter 893, when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.

(4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one’s property. "end quote"
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.151.html
When it says to the extent your normal faculties are impaired, you can be pretty sure that anything they find in your test will mean you were impaired, unless you were sitting on your couch and someone broke in, and you had to shoot them, in which case you would be fine, according to the written law.

CZ223
April 4, 2013, 12:53 PM
That carrying, and driving, were more important than drinking. I quit a month ago. I still go out but, believe it or not, I am not even tempted to drink.:evil: This is just one option.

Bubba613
April 4, 2013, 01:13 PM
Some people are not responsible after one beer. Some people can have 10 and not do anything stupid or irresponsible. I fall into the latter category. I will not conduct my life based on second guessing a mythical prosecutor and jury on a non-existent incident. Others are free to make their own choices.

Stevie-Ray
April 4, 2013, 01:53 PM
For the taste...Pretty lame reason to carry while intoxicated to any degree, imo. If you can't go without the taste until you get home, you need to re-evaluate. There are plenty of things that taste good that you could drink while carrying that don't intoxicate you.
I don't need to re-evaluate anything. Your reading comprehension is what's lame. Please tell me where I said I carry at all while intoxicated or ever drink while carrying before I get home.:rolleyes:

Sam1911
April 4, 2013, 02:05 PM
Hey guys, if we can't agree, at least lets keep it polite.

tarosean
April 4, 2013, 02:07 PM
In many decades of messing with firearms... Ive had two ND's... Want to try and guess what both had in common???


Yep you guessed it.

Alcohol!!!!!

One ended with a bullet in my leg the other a bullet into the lawn.

I personally love Single Malts and Stouts, Brown Ales, etc.... Fortunately It finally sunk into my thicker skull to never mix the two.

Flame away!

Onward Allusion
April 4, 2013, 02:19 PM
Mr. Ready
Should someone who carries never get drunk?
I know the first rule of concealed carry is always carry because otherwise carrying is pointless. But at the same time i know its wrong to be carrying in a state where the decision making complex and motor control are adversely affected. So is it as simple as dont go out and get drunk or high if you are someone who carries?

Yeah, it's that simple. To all the naysayers, gawd help you if you needed to shoot someone in self-defense and were found to have even .01 in your blood. So much room for the lawyers to work with in a civil suit.

Get high, yeah - plain stupid in the first place. Even dumber when carrying.

TimboKhan
April 4, 2013, 02:21 PM
Actually, I am going to close this. This is an argument that is whipping up bad feelings and really has no clear resolution. Don't get drunk while carrying, we all agree on. Whether you have a beer or wine or a shot of brown liqour.... well, that varies from person to person and I don't think it boils down to a right or a wrong answer.

For the record, I know a beer isn't going to alter me, but I still stay away from it in public while carrying because if I should need to shoot, I want zero witnesses coming forward to talk about my boozy dinner, nor do I want any trace, under the limit or otherwise, in my bloodstream. If your with me and carrying and drink a beer, fine. For most people, you can drive legally with a beer in you, so no reason your judgement is any worse carrying. It's just not my choice.

And with that, lets call it a day on this topic.

sent from my Galaxy Note II.

If you enjoyed reading about "Should someone who carries never get drunk?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!