Has anyone seen a DoubleTap Defense (derringer) ?


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C0untZer0
April 4, 2013, 06:37 PM
I know they're not semi-autos, but they're not revolvers either and since they shoot 45 ACP and 9mm I thought I'd ask the question in this forum.

They were suppossed to ship right about now - according to the press releases at the shot show. They said in January they were already back-ordered by 30,000 pistols.

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Kiln
April 5, 2013, 05:34 AM
Didn't the distributer drop these guns? I could be wrong but I think it was this gun that was set to ship and then some kind of problem cropped up between the manufacturer and distributer.

Either way I just don't see a point to these derringers. They're the size of your average compact 9mm these days but the DoubleTap only holds two shots.

C0untZer0
April 5, 2013, 10:51 AM
They did run into a problem with Heizer, they dropped them as a manufacturer and partnered with Azimuth.

http://doubletapdefensellc.com/


The gun underwent some minor design changes, the trigger was simplified, it went from something like 14 moving parts to just 4 IIRC, it now uses a needle bearing instead of a ball bearing, and some oher changes. The new model has sights and grip texture was changed slightly...

The DoubleTap is a little bit shorter than a Rohrbaugh R9 from top to bottom but a little bit longer from front to back. The Titatnium model is slightly heavier empty and the Aluminum model is 1.5 ounces lighter empty.

Of course the Rourbaugh is going to put on some weight when you load it with 7 rounds, the DoubleTap less so with 2 loaded/ 2 stored.

Rohrbaugh R9
Caliber: 9mm
Barrel: 2.9 in
Length: 5.2 in
Height: 3.7 in (really 4" from top of the rear sights to bottom of heel mag release)
Weight: 13.5 oz
Capacity: 6+1 Rounds

DoubleTap Defense - DoubleTap
Caliber: 45 ACP or 9mm
Barrel: 3.0 in
Length: 5.5 in
Height: 3.9 in
Weight: 14.0 oz empty for Titanium
Weight: 12.0 oz empty for Aluminum
Capacity: 2 Rounds




.

C0untZer0
April 5, 2013, 11:09 AM
When you look at the size of it and compare it to pocket nines - it is about the size of the R9 / Boberg / Kahr PM9, but when you compare it to compact 45s - it's a lot smaller and way more reliable than the smallest compact 45 guns.

From what I've read, the designer Ray Kohout had in mind a small 45 derringer when he created it and the 9mm is an afterthought.

According to the SHOTshow videos there will be other calber barrels introduced. So for an extra 200 bucks you could go from 45 ACP to 9mm, and probably for an extra 200 bucks you could add 380 ACP to that

TennJed
April 6, 2013, 09:05 PM
I always assumed it was going to be more of a novelty gun than a true SD weapon. Like Bond Arms

RevolvingGarbage
April 6, 2013, 10:49 PM
I think its certainly a serious defensive pistol, for those first two rounds anyway.

TennJed
April 6, 2013, 11:50 PM
I think its certainly a serious defensive pistol, for those first two rounds anyway.
the 45 is defiantly a solid defensive round, but from a SD standpoint it seems like a poor design. Too big to be so limited

Foto Joe
April 7, 2013, 10:11 AM
I just can't justify a two-shooter as a self defense weapon, yeah a .410 SD round or a 45 Colt will put a major hurt on whatever it hits but.....you have to hit it to hurt it.

I'm due to close the deal on the sale of my Bond Arms 45/.410 this afternoon. I bought this cute little two-shooter last summer and it really is a great gun and when my wife stated that she was surprised I'm selling it I informed her that I might have used my little brain when I bought it.

Kiln
April 7, 2013, 01:32 PM
the 45 is defiantly a solid defensive round, but from a SD standpoint it seems like a poor design. Too big to be so limited
I agree. These things are basically just your average derringer chambered in .45acp.

The problem is that two shots of .45acp isn't that impressive when you see 8 shot 9mm's that are basically the same size. At 1/4 the capacity, I can't see why anyone would want a Double Tap Derringer.

C0untZer0
April 18, 2013, 07:01 AM
I just want one :D

jerkface11
April 18, 2013, 11:14 AM
You left a measurement off. Width .665"

C0untZer0
April 18, 2013, 11:47 AM
ya - most pocket nines come in around .95" - 1" wide

Reports from SHOTshow was that the downside of that slimness is that they are painfull to shoot !

MICHAEL T
April 19, 2013, 11:33 PM
out of that short barrel be able to watch the 45 230gr fly to target Interesting to see if 600FPS with normal 230 ball ammo.

Texan Scott
April 20, 2013, 06:26 AM
I'm rather taken with my Bond. I carry it with the first tube loaded with #4 shot owing to the problem our area has with stray/ feral dogs, and the second with 000 Buck. It also makes a nice deep concealment/ BUG. The weight doesn't bother me, but a gun of the same SIZE really ought to make.more than two holes.

sgt127
April 20, 2013, 10:53 AM
For me the selling point is the DA. I own a couple High Standard derringers. And a ADC .45/410. I see a huge fumble potential trying to thumb cock the ADC under exigent circumstances.

Kiln
April 21, 2013, 03:15 AM
For me the selling point is the DA. I own a couple High Standard derringers. And a ADC .45/410. I see a huge fumble potential trying to thumb cock the ADC under exigent circumstances.
Right but what advantage does it have over modern DOA pistols in 9mm that are roughly the same size and carry an average of six shots?

sgt127
April 21, 2013, 11:37 PM
Right but what advantage does it have over modern DOA pistols in 9mm that are roughly the same size and carry an average of six shots?

Eh....None really. I was more making the point that it does have an advantage being DA over other derringers. If it works well, it would be very reliable for those two shots. MAYBE a tiny bit more reliable than a small auto under certain conditions...for those two shots.

Kiln
April 22, 2013, 01:36 PM
Eh....None really. I was more making the point that it does have an advantage being DA over other derringers. If it works well, it would be very reliable for those two shots. MAYBE a tiny bit more reliable than a small auto under certain conditions...for those two shots.
Can't disagree with you there. Big advantage over traditional SA derringers in powerful chamberings.

I just think with the size of these things there are much better options.

460Kodiak
April 24, 2013, 11:09 AM
Either way I just don't see a point to these derringers. They're the size of your average compact 9mm these days but the DoubleTap only holds two shots.

I'm with Kiln on this one. I see no point to these guns. They are ugly as sin too. JMO

I'm due to close the deal on the sale of my Bond Arms 45/.410 this afternoon.

I got rid of mine too. Beautiful little gun, and totally impractical. I couldn't really hit anything with it past 20 feet, limited ammo, heavy for pocket carry, and most importantly, I hated shooting it as it was rather painful to me. I shoot a 460 regularly, but I hated pulling the trigger on my Bond. I traded it off towards an XDs. I'll never look back either.

When you look at the size of it and compare it to pocket nines - it is about the size of the R9 / Boberg / Kahr PM9, but when you compare it to compact 45s - it's a lot smaller and way more reliable than the smallest compact 45 guns.


I really don't know where this comment is coming from. Modern compact .45's are very reliable. GLOCK's compact 45 has been in trusted service by CC's for many years. The XDs is the most reliable out of the box semiauto I've ever shot. It feeds and shoots anything I feed it accurately, without any complaints. If you haven't plaid with one, I suggest you try and hunt one down.

All that being said, if you just want a Double Tap, then enjoy.

C0untZer0
April 24, 2013, 11:54 AM
I really don't know where this comment is coming from. Modern compact .45's are very reliable.

Who makes a semi-auto .45 that is 5.5" long 3.9" high and less than an inch thick, - that reliably shoots hollow point ammo from the major manufacturers?

C0untZer0
April 24, 2013, 12:06 PM
Also, this little DoubleTap is 14 ounces... the XD-S is 21.5

I personally don't see how it fills that much of a niche in 9mm since the Rohrbaugh is about the same size overall and weighs about the same (especially if you have 2 rounds in stored in the grip of the DoubleTap) and the R9 has a 7 round capacity versus 2.

But maybe someone wants a very very slim nine, or maybe someone wants to fire some kind of round out of a nine that won't reliable cycle a small semi-auto 9mm - like shotshells, or maybe underwood +P+ rounds or something.

But IMO it does fill a niche for the 45. The 45 semi-autos aren't nearly that small.

460Kodiak
April 24, 2013, 02:20 PM
I guess I'm not following you. You said
it's a lot smaller and way more reliable than the smallest compact 45 guns.

You said compact, and yes, it is smaller. I didn't say the XDs was the same dimensions as the Double Tap.

Who makes a semi-auto .45 that is 5.5" long 3.9" high and less than an inch thick, - that reliably shoots hollow point ammo from the major manufacturers?

I never said anyone did. XDs measures 6.3 x 4.3 x 1.0. And yes it is heavier.

So to clarrify, my question is where are you deriving and way more reliable than the smallest compact 45 guns from? I am assuming you are refering to the GLOCK 37?, and the XDs as they are the smallest .45 semiautos I know of, and as far as I know are reliable guns. I only own an XDs though. Does the GLOCK have a bad track record?

Are you refering to 3" 1911's? I have heard of issues with them. Is there another model you are talking about? I'm just asking, not being argumentative. The unreliable comment is what I'm wondering about.

C0untZer0
April 24, 2013, 06:52 PM
Ya I was referring to guns like the AMT Backup,

But more importantly, I don't think anyone has been able to produce a .45 semi-auto the size of the DoubleTap that functions reliably with a a variety of ammo.

So that's why I say, chambered in .45 it fills a niche.

I guess the niche would be people who don't feel safe shooting anything "less" than a 45 but they want to carry in their pocket.

I am interested in the 9mm version, and would probably buy a 380 AUTO barrel for it if they follow through and produce other calibers like they are saying.

But it boils down to me just wanting one.

Swing
April 24, 2013, 10:50 PM
Seen? In person, no. Think they are neat-o? Oh, yes.

460Kodiak
April 25, 2013, 10:00 AM
Ya I was referring to guns like the AMT Backup,


Gotcha

But it boils down to me just wanting one.

Hope you find one then. Post a report and review if you get a chance when you do eventually find one.

C0untZer0
April 29, 2013, 01:33 PM
I saw an announcement on their Facebook page today that didn't make sense:

Fans, we are putting the finishing touches on our announcement and making sure everything is ready for it so unfortunately the announcement won't be made today. We hope to be able to give you the good news tomorrow. We know you've been waiting a long time and we apologize for this delay, but we promise it is worth it!

They already have said multiple times - and at SHOTshow that these things would be shipping by next month, so I'm not sure what they could announcing.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/DoubleTapFirearmsLLC?hc_location=stream

C0untZer0
May 4, 2013, 10:51 AM
It's kind of strange, they kept hyping an upcoming announcement on their Facebook page, then they postponed "the big announcement" till the NRA Show.

At the NRA Show they announced that the DoubleTap will be shipping in 10 days.

That was their big announcement.

Well at SHOTshow they said it would be shipping in 60 days, that would put the shipping date at around March 18th

I don't know, I learned to tone my enthusiasm down on this sort of thing because last year I got an e-mail reply from Dee Ecker in July that the Charter Arms 9mm PITBULL was shipping. I really wanted one and I was excited. I even called local gun dealers for prices. That was July 12, 2012. I still have never seen one except for pictures on the Internet.

Soldiernurse
May 5, 2013, 12:25 AM
Here's a pic of my .40S&W Pitbull...
http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6338/photomar14205310.jpg

C0untZer0
June 25, 2013, 01:24 PM
They really are shipping - at least the 45 versions are.

I saw my first DoubleTap at Gander Mountain yesterday, in 45 ACP.

I heard a lot about how the trigger was supposed to be so great because of the bearing system, I think it's a long, heavy trigger pull, with a lot of take up that gets gritty toward the end. I guess compared to other derringers it is an OK trigger though. And it is a derringer so I guess the trigger is relative.

C0untZer0
July 22, 2013, 07:02 AM
I totally missed this review until now:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/07/daniel-zimmerman/gun-review-doubletap-tactical-pocket-pistol/

One of the drawbacks for me is weight. The gun is 17.375 ounces fully loaded - which I am assuming is 2 in the chambers and 2 stored in the grip, and it's just not that far off from 17.8 ounces for my R9 fully loaded with 1 in the chamber and 6 in the magazine.

But oh well...

PabloJ
July 22, 2013, 07:47 AM
I know they're not semi-autos, but they're not revolvers either and since they shoot 45 ACP and 9mm I thought I'd ask the question in this forum.

They were suppossed to ship right about now - according to the press releases at the shot show. They said in January they were already back-ordered by 30,000 pistols.
I handled both .45 & 9x19 versions and the guns being about same size as XDs I see little value in owning one.

ku4hx
July 22, 2013, 08:12 AM
I saw an announcement on their Facebook page today that didn't make sense:



They already have said multiple times - and at SHOTshow that these things would be shipping by next month, so I'm not sure what they could announcing.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/DoubleTapFirearmsLLC?hc_location=stream
A bit like a sign at a local beer joint. "Free beer tomorrow". If you ask about the free beer, you always get the same answer, "The free beer is tomorrow".

smalls
July 22, 2013, 08:44 AM
Gander Mtn. by me has both. I held them, and if I didn't already want one I definitely wouldn't now. They just seem painful to shoot.

MedWheeler
July 22, 2013, 02:07 PM
My local "showroom" has two of them, priced in the low 400s. I didn't bother to handle them. I'd rather carry eight rounds of .32ACP in a platform that small, with the option of a rapid replenishment of seven more, than a two-shooter of any caliber. In fact, for that money, the "rapid replenishment" could even be eight more rounds ready to rock in a second gun.

And, my eight rounds of 9x19 are carried in a platform that really isn't that much bigger (and weighs the same, or less.)

Prince Yamato
July 22, 2013, 03:17 PM
They're larger than a standard pocket pistol, cost around $450-500, and only hold two shots. They have a very long trigger pull. I have not shot one, only handled one. I would assume they recoil is unpleasant in any caliber.

VA27
July 22, 2013, 10:20 PM
I've shot the 45. 6 rounds of CCI shotshells= recoil manageable, but the design of the case locks the action shut. Not going to be a snake gun while fishing.

Next I tried two 185gr Hornaday ZombieMax. Have you seen the vid of the S&W 500 'doubling'? The gun recoils so severely that the gun backs away from the trigger and fires again when your trigger finger catches up? Yeah, it did that. I was,wearing a P.A.S.T. glove and it cut the web of my hand through the glove. The trigger guard cut my finger, too. That must be where it got the name 'double tap'.

Then I shot four rounds of 230gr ball. Recoil was heavy, as expected, but at least it didn't double.

My hand was sore for a week and the bruising has faded. Next time I get the offer to shoot one, I'll just have someone whack the web of my hand with a dull hatchet. No sense in wasting good ammo.

ritepath
July 22, 2013, 10:54 PM
I got to lay my hands on one this weekend at a local gunshow. They had two of them (45's) I broke them down, pulled the trigger (they were smooth) Neat little pistol for sure but I come home with a SR45 instead. :) I'm thinking they were tagged 499 or somewhere close to that.

C0untZer0
July 22, 2013, 11:17 PM
I didn't think the trigger on the one I handled was smooth.

TennJed
July 22, 2013, 11:18 PM
kahr PM45

5+1 rounds
Length 5.79"
Height: 4.49"


Doubletap

2 rounds
Length 5.5"
Height 3.9"

hAkron
July 22, 2013, 11:18 PM
I saw one today. Looked pretty bulky compared to my trusty 642.

Janos Dracwlya
July 24, 2013, 10:14 PM
Don't forget that, while it may be the same length and width of small semi-auto, it is about half as thick. I'm not saying that makes it worthwhile, but it may be a consideration for some people.

C0untZer0
July 26, 2013, 02:16 PM
I think what is a consideration is that you definitely have 2 shots with it, compared to a semi that theoretically could have a malfunction after the first shot, and it is way thinner than a revolver.

A consideration for me is that I can shoot rounds that wouldn't cycle in a semi-auto, or might not cycle my R9 - everything from shot shells to 147gr +P+



The one at Gander Mountain didn't last long

horsemen61
July 26, 2013, 02:37 PM
I saw one at my lgs and ill be honest it was big bulky and heavy.

C0untZer0
July 26, 2013, 03:32 PM
I've held the Bond Derringer and I'd say those were bulky.

Five and half inches of length makes it slightly longer than PM9/CM9, but the DoubleTap is thin

One of the downsides to it is that firing it really gives your hand a wack.

I stand corrected on +P ammo - the DoubleTap isn't rated for +P

I can't understand this, it's not cycling an action, its tip-up steel barrels locking into a Titanium frame.

Maybe they mean no .45 +P ???

I can't see what these things shouldn't be able to handle 9mm +P ammo.

pendennis
July 26, 2013, 05:10 PM
My LGS has one sitting in the display case now. I've handled it, and I'm not impressed with any aspect of it. It has a long trigger pull that's reminiscent of my High Standard DM101 in .22 Mag. It is novel with the storage area in the butt, but just seems like the answer to an unasked question.

If the accuracy isn't any better than my HS, it will only be good to 5', and a last resort weapon.

Life During Wartime
July 27, 2013, 01:44 AM
haven't seen it in person, but Root from Person of Interest (a great show btw) uses it as her sidearm

Soldiernurse
July 28, 2013, 09:12 PM
Saw them at a gun show this weekend. Yes, they are thin but overall bigger than I expected. No thx, I'll stick w/my XDs45.

zeke707
August 8, 2013, 12:43 PM
I purchased one. Tried posting a lengthly review. This one is short. Where are the 7 patents? Where are the needle bearings? Too large and heavy. Trigger pull very rough, almost bottoms out. Not a gun for ladies. Does not shoot reloads. No extracter. Nice looking. Well finished. I give it a C. Just my opinion.

TUBBY1
August 8, 2013, 02:28 PM
I've got a bond ck2000. 000buck in three inch is a lot of kinetic energy in one shot. Handles 45 lc nicely too. Got a 357/38 barrel for it but not used it much. Is heavy but comfortable with heavy loads. Fits jacket pocket or console box nicely.close counts in horse shoes, hand grenades ,dancing and bond arms. Nice truck gun.

2wheels
August 8, 2013, 10:00 PM
Saw one the other day, asked to handle it just for giggles.

I already thought it was a dumb idea, now I know it is... You brag about your 2 shots of .45ACP while I'll remain happy with my 7 shots of .380 or 5 of .38 Special.

hariph creek
August 9, 2013, 12:49 AM
You know for $100-$200? I'd get one. Part novelty, part "snake gun." I guess maybe a BUG? Maybe a BUG for the BUG? Maybe?

C0untZer0
August 22, 2013, 02:10 PM
Well these things are definitely in the stores now. The first one I saw at Gander Mountain was gone the next day. I was there this week and they have 3 of them in the display case - 9mm and 45 ACP.

I don't understand this part but it seems that there are 2 companies - DoubleTap Defense - which is making these in 45 ACP and 9mm Luger, and Heizer Defense, which is now making basically the same gun chambered for 410, called the PS1 "Pocket Shotgun" and it is a single shot versus two shots for the DoubleTap Defense

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/08/21/first-look-heizer-defense-pocket-shotgun/

hardluk1
August 23, 2013, 12:50 PM
Our general store has 3 of them in stock for 499.

460Kodiak
August 24, 2013, 01:05 AM
I saw one the other day. I looked. Shuddered. Then I went and looked at the revolvers.

Roadking Rider
August 25, 2013, 02:23 PM
I have to be honest. To me it's a total waste of money.

RevolvingGarbage
August 26, 2013, 08:07 PM
I handled one chambered in 9x19. I thought it was cool, and may have some utility, however the price would have to be half, and they would have to redesign the backstrap to have a rubber or atleast kind of contoured edge.

C0untZer0
August 27, 2013, 12:41 PM
They were shooting mild hand-loads for one of the reviews and the shooters said it stung their hands.

I don't think DTD is going to change the grip design. the assumption is that this is not a range toy or a competition pistol, but a belly gun most likely used in grave circumstances, so in a life or death situation you probably won't notice that it stings the heck out of your hand (twice).

scaatylobo
August 27, 2013, 02:05 PM
I do see a use for a defensive handgun that can be carried in a pocket and is VERY fast to pull and shoot.

If your attacked on the street by the 'new version' of a PUNCH OUT,and then face getting a beatdown by a group of "youth" = this might be the tool that could stop the first attacker.

Of course you will need VERY good street sense and the knowledge and will to do what will save your butt.

Yes its a VERY touchy subject,and I am SURE many will state for a "fact" that you cannot be that street saavy.

If that is your belief,ok - its not mine and I speak for one that has been there more than once.

A real street smart gun toter has a 'chance' to thwart an attack IF properly armed and mentally armed.

This pistol is one of my choices as well as the High Standard .22 mag that I pocket carry along with a clone of it in .9MM [ but a great deal heavier ].

I also carry the LCP as a tool for this purpose,just slower to draw.

AND if your thinking about this technique for S/D - PLEASE,PLEASE practice a few hundred draws with an EMPTY GUN.

C0untZer0
September 22, 2013, 03:12 AM
Pretty good review of the DoubleTap in 3 parts:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/09/doubletap-tactical-pocket-pistol-45-acp.html

sgt127
September 22, 2013, 11:36 AM
Well. After that review, the jury is out for me. That's an awful lot of things going wrong on, what should be, a pretty simple machine.

chuckpro
September 22, 2013, 02:20 PM
"Pretty good review of the DoubleTap in 3 parts:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...ol-45-acp.html"

I don't live far from where this gun is made and was excited about the pocket 45 until they arrived in the LGS a month or so back. I picked it up and it just felt bulky for two shot. Decided it wasn't for me. I am glad i made the choice after reading the review above.

M2 Carbine
September 22, 2013, 02:25 PM
I saw one in a gun store Tuesday. 9mm.
I'd probably get one if it was about $250 but near $500, I just walked on by.

C0untZer0
September 22, 2013, 02:46 PM
The jury is not "still out" for me on this one, as much as I'm intrigued by it, I can't own a pistol that fires two bullets at a time. Besides what it would do to my hand, the second round to fire goes way high.

I see these at Gander Mountain now. When they first hit the shelves there was a rush to buy them, now they're just sitting.

stressed
October 9, 2013, 07:59 PM
Looks like a modernized Liberator .45 ACP with the addition of a second barrel. Even has the same storage in the handle for spare rounds.

Steve CT
October 11, 2013, 05:59 PM
I've handled one, it seems like a "solution looking for a problem".

What could this possibly do for me that my LCP does not, for less money?

If you need to get the job done with two shots, you probably need to be a careful, disciplined shooter with great situational awareness that practices regularly with this gun. How many buyers of the Double Tap will be this kind of shooter?

C0untZer0
October 11, 2013, 07:23 PM
What could this possibly do for me that my LCP does not, for less money?

Mmmm...

Tear a ligament or tendon in your wrist or break your thumb ?

Pyro
October 12, 2013, 01:59 PM
Eh, derringers.
It's fun thought of pocket carrying this tiny .45 gun for CCW or secondary.
But after you go "pop" "pop" with it and realize there is no time out to reload...eh, scary thought.
Having 5 available shots is my minimum with any caliber.

khegglie
October 12, 2013, 04:48 PM
They are in stock at My LGS. There are at least 3 in the used gun counter.

CurlyQ
October 13, 2013, 10:30 PM
My local gun shop had one today in .45, but personally, I have no use for it.

The Lone Haranguer
October 14, 2013, 12:25 PM
Saw one at the gun show this weekend. Not impressed at all. Yes, it's thin and flat, but its height and length is the same as many subcompact pistols that hold up to five times the ammo. The "thin and flat" wouldn't be so bad if the edges of the grip were not also sharp. I've got to believe it would be a hand pounder. All this for two shots.

Stope Rat
November 27, 2013, 06:23 PM
I looked at one - thinking that it might make a good "backup backup gun" (BUBUG?)

At less than .70" thick, it would fit great on the straps of my body armor.

But having watched the video from mousegunaddicts' blog post - no way. I'm out.

jonnyc
November 27, 2013, 08:39 PM
Run......don't look back......avoid at all costs......worst thing I ever shot.

HighExpert
November 27, 2013, 08:50 PM
The one I shot with target load .45acp was unpleasant but doable in an emergency. Overpriced? Yes

C0untZer0
November 27, 2013, 08:55 PM
I really thought they were cool, I thought the roller bearing trigger was going to make it different than other derringers. But once I got over the coolness factor I thought "If I had to choose a BUG for my primary, how would this be better than a CM9, or even a P-32"

I'd rather shoot someone multiple times with a 32 ACP than shoot just twice with a 45.

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