Suspicious AA 9mm load data


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david_r
April 5, 2013, 03:56 AM
Accurate Arms load data for #5 a Rainier 115 RN seems might suspicious. How can it be the same velocity and pressure as the other loads they have listed with a charge weight that is .2 to .6 less than the other bullets? They do the same with #7 but not with #2.


Jacketed
No 5 115 NOS JHP 5.4 1,007 6.3 1,137 34,913 1.077
No 5 115 SIE FMJ 5.4 1,021 6.3 1,148 34,200 1.100
Lead
No 5 115 LC RN 5.2 1,043 6.1 1,179 34,420 1.070
Plated
No 5 115 BRY RNDS 5.7 1,023 6.5 1,145 33,667 1.130

No 5 115 RAN RN 4.8 1,017 5.9 1,150 33,854 1.140
No 7 115 BRY RNDS 7.0 1,047 8.2 1,185 34,933 1.130
No 7 115 RAN RN 5.7 1,027 6.7 1,165 34,399 1.140
No 2 115 BRY RNDS 3.7 976 4.7 1,103 34,853 1.130
No 2 115 RAN RN 3.8 957 4.6 1,081 33,695 1.140

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Walkalong
April 5, 2013, 08:31 AM
Plated vs jacketed. Bullet composition. Light vs heavy "jacket", and in the case of the Ranier, probably softer lead.

I usually say to stop at 75% to 80% of jacketed data, and this kind of data is why. Some plated can be pushed harder, but some cannnot. The more plated data that comes out the better, especially brand specific. Hodgdon has some online now, as well as Accurate and Vihtavuori, maybe more.

here are some old links to some plated data.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6195350&postcount=11

rfwobbly
April 5, 2013, 12:09 PM
I'd call Accurate to verify. They are extremely helpful.

rodregier
April 5, 2013, 12:53 PM
Keep in mind too that the product sold as AA#5 has varied a great deal over the years. This is in part due to completely different factories producing the powder that is packaged by Accurate Arms and labelled as AA#5.

The best strategy to deal with such variations is to use load data published during the *same* time period when your AA#5 was manufactured.

As always, start low, work up!

beatledog7
April 5, 2013, 01:29 PM
All reloading data are suspicious in that they must be tested in your gun before you can say they're valid for your gun.

rfwobbly
April 5, 2013, 02:05 PM
All reloading data are suspicious in that they must be tested in your gun before you can say they're valid for your gun.

That's an excellent statement. Very concise and to the point.

david_r
April 5, 2013, 03:15 PM
I'd call it suspect, not suspicious.

Has anyone looked at the data? Can anyone opine on why there is such a discrepancy between the Berry's and Rainier? I would assume that AA had recycled their earlier data from the link Walkalong posted. However, they changed the COL so I would assume their latest data is new.

Their lead and jacketed data is higher than the Rainier plated data. I would expect it to fall in between those or at least for the Rainier and the Berry's to be more similar than the lead and jacketed.

If someone has an actual theory, I'd love to hear it.

ljnowell
April 5, 2013, 03:32 PM
.......

GLOOB
April 7, 2013, 10:06 PM
I have experienced the difference firsthand. Rainiers shoot almost like cast. Berry's shoot almost like jacketed. Select your start loads accordingly. I dunno but maybe rainier shoot faster than cast Cuz they're dead soft lead vs hard cast.

Walkalong
April 7, 2013, 10:34 PM
I pretty much agree with GLOOB, but would note that the Ranier 9MM 115 Gr RN gives virtually identical velocities for me as the Hornady jacketed 115 Gr FMJ (Encapsulated - Has a disc on the bottom to seal the lead from the burning powder) Some Raniers will get you in trouble pressure wise if you try to push them with max jacketed data. Some of the data out there shows that.

Blue68f100
April 8, 2013, 10:36 AM
I'd call it suspect, not suspicious.

Has anyone looked at the data? Can anyone opine on why there is such a discrepancy between the Berry's and Rainier? I would assume that AA had recycled their earlier data from the link Walkalong posted. However, they changed the COL so I would assume their latest data is new.

Their lead and jacketed data is higher than the Rainier plated data. I would expect it to fall in between those or at least for the Rainier and the Berry's to be more similar than the lead and jacketed.

If someone has an actual theory, I'd love to hear it.

Berry's has always fallen in between lead and jacketed. The reason they recommend that you load up to mid jacketed data. Their plating is a different harness and they have a different core harness. Rainers has always said to use lead data, soft core, harder jacket ( i think). I have always gotten seater marks on Rainer's but not on Berry's. There bases are different too.

There are probably other reason but I no longer have access to equipment to measure the hardness and thickness of the jacket or core to confirm.

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