[Il Duce]

Teen suing FWCS over T-shirt
Elmhurst sophomore is taking on dress code.
By Mike Dooley
of The News-Sentinel

A 16-year-old Elmhurst High School sophomore and his father are suing Fort Wayne Community Schools over a dress code policy that saw the boy suspended for wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with the likeness of an M-16 rifle and the text of the Marine Corps creed.
The creed, written by a Marine Corps general after the attack on Pearl Harbor, focuses on the relationship between a Marine and his or her rifle, and is also known as "My Rifle."

Nathan Griggs and his father, David, brought the suit in U.S. District Court against the school system, its board of trustees, Wendy Robinson, school superintendent, and Lillian Lowery, Elmhurst/North Side area administrator. They are asking the schools be permanently barred from enforcing what they call the offending provisions of the dress code.

The student and his father are being supported by the Rutherford Institute, a Charlottesville, Va., organization that opposes "zero-tolerance" policies used by schools and other institutions. The institute has in the past brought other legal challenges involving distribution of a religious newspaper in a junior high school.

The local lawsuit said Nathan Griggs wore the T-shirt to school March 17, 2003, and was told by an official he would be disciplined if he wore it again. The suit said he believed the shirt was protected under the First Amendment, and wore it again the next day.

At that point, the lawsuit said Elmhurst Principal Laura Taliaferro ordered the teen to serve an in-school suspension and told him he would be given an out-of-school suspension if he wore it again. Taliaferro, the suit said, told David Griggs the shirt was "inappropriate for the school setting."

The dress code, the suit said, is overly broad and prohibits what it called clearly protected speech such as the text on the T-shirt. The code is so strict, the lawsuit said, that it would prevent a student from wearing a shirt featuring the city of Fort Wayne seal because that seal includes a sword.

FWCS spokeswoman Deborah Morgan said it is the schools' policy to decline comment on pending lawsuits.

---------------------

When my wife and I have our first child, his/her first t-shirt will have Molon Labe emblazoned on the front...:mad: And I'll make him/her wear it every day. ;)

[dtt]

Ahh, but I bet it was okay for kids to wear shirts calling the President of the United States a terrorist. Nice. Liberals are all about free speech, as long as it's espousing their beliefs.

[Skunkabilly]

Fort Wayne 'Community Schools'?

Are these public or private schools?

[clange]

The student and his father are being supported by the Rutherford Institute, a Charlottesville, Va., organization that opposes "zero-tolerance" policies used by schools and other institutions. The institute has in the past brought other legal challenges involving distribution of a religious newspaper in a junior high school.
Never heard of them but sounds good to me. Zero tolerance stuff like this flat out sucks.

[para.2]

Coincidentally...I've been looking for just such a t-shirt. Anyone have a source?:confused:

[BHPshooter]

Good for the kid. I don't care what age you are, to go bald-faced against authority takes balls.

I hope the kid sues the crap out of them.

I was just in High School 2 years ago -- I know the stuff that kids can wear, yet wearing anything having to do with guns will get you in trouble, while the skank next to you is wearing a "just do me" baby-doll shirt. :scrutiny:

I can't believe this crap. :barf:

Wes

[longeyes]

"Zero tolerance," following hard upon forty years of Infinite Tolerance.

Sick.

[MicroBalrog]

while the skank next to you is wearing a "just do me" baby-doll shirt


Am I supposed to be disgusted?

[GigaBuist]

Am I supposed to be disgusted?

When they're 14 years old... I am. It's just not quite right.

I do want to know where I can get one of those shirts though. Not the "just do me" ones - -the "My Rifle" shirts.

[MicroBalrog]

The original post specified no age.

When I was 18, I remember one of my classmates wear a pair of paramilitary Robbins 5.11's... except they were pink and had "Make love, not war" written on her bottom. I was definitely not disgusted, even though she was 17.

To a similar tune, the following story is accounted by one of my teachers. My school (a private establishment), discouraged wearing of "provocative" clothing to A-level exams, so as "not to distract the examinees".

One particular Physics examinee came dressed in an extremely, errm, skimpy outfit. The teacher was about to kick her out, but a male classmate commented: "This is a Physics exam. As she gets hot, it will expand."

The phrase became myth.

I was not disgusted. At all.

[DTLoken]

Ahh, but I bet it was okay for kids to wear shirts calling the President of the United States a terrorist. Nice. Liberals are all about free speech, as long as it's espousing their beliefs.

Where did it say the people running the school are Liberals?

More like politically correct fools.

[TaurusCIA]

You seem to be easily distracted by anything to do with the physical body. For one as enlightened as you are with your high IQ and great pseudo SAT scores, I would think you could rise above your primitive urges.

(Prov 15:7 ) The lips of the wise disperse knowledge, But the heart of the fool does not do so.

(Prov 18:2 NKJV) A fool has no delight in understanding, But in expressing his own heart.

(Prov 26:4 NKJV) Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him.

You do not appear to be one who has sought to gain or disperse knowledge but to stir the pot and gain some notoriety. Kind of like Howard Stern. "Somebody notice me. Please!"

:(

[SAG0282]

*shakes head sadly*

How ridiculous.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Whew...

I'm from Fort Wayne, and grew up in the school district that would have sent me to Elmhurst for high school. Thankfully, my parents allowed me to go to the local Lutheran high school instead. I graduated just a few years ago. Reading this story reminds why I wanted away from Elmhurst so much...

Suspended for wearig a shirt with a picture of an M-16, huh? Prahps the folks at FWCS should be reminded that at Concordia (their Lutheran "competitors") we had an armory full of M-16s for the students in the ROTC program for many years. We were taught marksmanship as a part of the standard curriculum. We have our own rifle range right inside the school, in the basement beneath the cafeteria. Our rifle team has been state champion for as long as I can remember. I met my girlfriend on our rifle team (we're still together 4 years after graduating :)). I used to get up and go to school an hour early every morning to "play" with Springfields and Garands as practice for our drill team. Good times, those...

Those folks at Elmhurst best not visit Concordia. They'd be shocked with how utterly trustworthy the students are there. If they show up at the right time, they may even be greeted with the sound of muffled gunfire. Children with guns, oh the horror!! :rolleyes: We never had a problem with students bringing guns to school; there were plenty of guns there already already.:D

Free market education is a good thing.

[jsalcedo]

Back in the 80's I wore a Kill em all let god sort em out shirt which had a skull with a Special forces beret crossed by two m16's.

I was accused by my English teacher of advocating murder but no one officially told me to stop wearing it.

[MicroBalrog]

You seem to be easily distracted by anything to do with the
physical body. For one as enlightened as you are with your high IQ and great pseudo SAT scores, I would think you could rise above your primitive urges

This is based on?

[mr_dove]

Does anyone know what the text of the shirt was?

I get the impression from the fact that the article fails to cite the text of the shirt that it may be the text itself which is offensive and not the image of the rifle.

They described the saying without citing the exact text.

unless I missed it.

[Il Duce]

Mr. Dove

"My Rifle"
THE CREED OF THE UNITED STATES MARINES

THIS IS MY RIFLE. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will....
My rifle and myself know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit....
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will....
Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until there is no enemy, but Peace!

[mr_dove]

thanks for posting that for me Duce. Perhaps I was wrong. Maybe they just didn't cite the saying because it was too long. The text must have been pretty small to fit on that on a T-shirt though.

That being said, we should all respect our firearms as much as the "creed of the United States Marines" suggests.

[TaurusCIA]

I was definitely not disgusted, even though she was 17...
"This is a Physics exam. As she gets hot, it will expand."...
I was not disgusted. At all.

Sorry! I stand corrected.

[Chuck Jennings]

I assume it refers to this:



"This Is My Rifle"

The Creed of a US Marine

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.

My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I WILL...

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. WE WILL HIT...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. WE WILL...

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF MY LIFE.

So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!

Nothing very offensive in my book.

[MeekandMild]

This is based on? Offhand I'd say it was based on core Buddhist, Christian, B'Hai or Zen beliefs. Needless to say there has been much written over the past 6000 years about the necessity of the enlightened soul to transcend the primitive self.

[MicroBalrog]

"This is a Physics exam. As she gets hot, it will expand."...

The above quote was uttered years before I entered the school. I didn't even take A-level physics.

Offhand I'd say it was based on core Buddhist, Christian, B'Hai or Zen beliefs.

What, TaurusCIA's depiction of me as a shallow-minded idiot?

[Carlos Cabeza]

I am SOOO glad I attended school prior to the gamut of the PC load of BS. School must really suck, that it allows for and provides a venue for certain types of demonstration yet censors and restricts others. :scrutiny:

I'll tell you one thing, I'd like to meet that kid's dad !:cool:


:spelling

[TaurusCIA]

What, TaurusCIA's depiction of me as a shallow-minded idiot?

No, just easily distracted. You chose to use the physics exam as an example.

I was just in High School 2 years ago -- I know the stuff that kids can wear, yet wearing anything having to do with guns will get you in trouble, while the skank next to you is wearing a "just do me" baby-doll shirt.

The original poster used this to point out the double standard that he experienced. But you seemed to get distracted by the "baby-doll" part of the example. I'm not sure if this indicates a lack of a maturity or simply poor taste.

P.S. Oops...IMO.

[MicroBalrog]

No, what I tried to point out is about this:

1)From the blissninny pseudoliberal viewpoint, guns/military are evil as they are associated with violence and patriotism. The blissninny pseudoliberal hates the military because of some perverted understanding of the military solely as the machine of destruction, made to serve the crooked ends of "imperialist patriotism".

Blissninny pseudoliberals are generally hoplophobic and anti-"patriotic", not because they are evil, but because they suffer from some outdated form of pacifism which had seen it's place and day between 1918 and 1939.

To the Blissninny Pseudoliberal (hence BPL), violence is immoral, yet sex is not, thus "do me now" is fine and "Neca eos omnes" is not.

For example, BPL's believe that societies were sex is more openly discussed tend to be less violent.

2)From the Ultra-Traditionalist Conservative's viewpoint, discussion of sex (in particular, extra-marital sex) is immoral, and guns are not. This is due to the UTC's patriarchal world view.

To the UTC, depicting sex is immoral, yet depicting guns/military is not, thus "Neca eos omnes" is fine and "Do me now" is not.


3)IMHO, both are wrong.:D

[RustyHammer]

:banghead:

[Standing Wolf]

Are leftists born dull-witted, or do they go to school for it?

[Daniel T]

IMHO, both are wrong.

I'm with you on that one.

[MicroBalrog]

Are leftists born dull-witted, or do they go to school for it?

What have you found "dull-witted" about my previous post?

[TaurusCIA]

Thanks for the clarification. I now understand your position.

The above referenced scripture was to serve as much as a reminder for me as it was to anyone else. Some will dismiss it out-of-hand because it comes from the Bible but it is still good advice.

I will endeavor to be less critical when participating in future threads. But please, can we stay on topic?

[iapetus]

This Is My Rifle"

The Creed of a US Marine

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life...



Ah, so not the "This is my rifle / This is my gun / This is for fighting / This is for fun" rhyme from Full Metal Jacket, then.

I suppose that could have been deemed inappropriate :)

[Mulliga]

I suspect another ACLU/NRA collaboration, here. Unless the school outlaws the image of a weapon (impossible, since library books often contain pictures of guns) or the words "killing the enemy," they don't have much of a leg to stand on.

I'd like a shirt like that myself, but I'm currently saving up to buy this:

http://www.jpfo.org/jpfo1.htm

[Drjones]

Back in the 80's I wore a Kill em all let god sort em out shirt which had a skull with a Special forces beret crossed by two m16's.


Now THAT is a sweet shirt!!!

Where can I get it??? :)

[Librarian]

Now THAT is a sweet shirt!!!
Where can I get it???
One place: http://www.newyorkheroesgiftshop.com/cgi-bin/dept?dpt=H&srch=15
(Doesn't have the M16s, though)

[Standing Wolf]

What have you found "dull-witted" about my previous post?

Nothing. My comment was directed against the so-called "educational" institution that holds itself above the Marines.

[fjolnirsson]

Para.2

http://www.supercasuals.com/results.cfm

They have My Rifle ts in grey with black writing

[Chuck Jennings]

here is the link

http://www.supercasuals.com/dspItemDetail.cfm?Product_ID=430&Category=145

[fjolnirsson]

Thanks. My mistake.

[para.2]

thanks fjolnirsson, clbj:cool:

[madmike]

We should all call up the schools when this type of thing happens.

Politely.

Calmly.

And just tell them that you are opposed to their "zero intelligence policy."

Thank them.

And hang up.

politely.

:D

Why, oh WHY is it always Ft Wayne?

[madmike]

MicroBalrog, I'm proud to have you on this forum, and find you to be insightful.

I've got nothing against liberals, it's the Democrats who #$^% me off. ;)

I'm just curious as to what you get out of democraticundeground? I guess you weren't posting when I looked, becuase what I saw was a bunch of freaks with no common sense, no concept of liberalism, no concept of politics, poor spelling and grammar skills, poorer manners, and so little real life that they had ten to fifteen THOUSAND posts each.

What goes on there that's relevant to anything? All I ever saw was "Bush is Hitler! Gore is president! The military's a bunch of cowards for not staging a revolution to put Gore in! Gunowners are violent and should be shot! Anyone who doesn't agree with us is a 'freeper'!" (whatever that is) "Gore really won! Dean is God! Osama is cool because Bush is Hitler! I wish I lived under the Taliban rather than Bush!"

I mentioned that one would be treated much more nicely here for expressing dissenting views than one is there...and got booted and my posts struck. By people who support "Free speech." I guess I forgot to add, "Bush is Hitler!" ;)

Not trying to stir anything up. I'm just wondering if you have low taste in humor, if you're actually managing to reach anyone, or if they've improved?

[BowStreetRunner]

the boy sure has a pair to take on the school system like that, and i commend him and his father for rocking the boat
BSR

[BHPshooter]

The original poster used this to point out the double standard that he experienced.

Exactly. "Just do me" shirts don't offend me, but if you're going to get offended about something as pithy as a shirt that shows a gun (freedom of speech! unless I don't agree...), then why not get offended about an explicit advertisement for sexual encounters?

Micro already answered why, and I agree that neither viewpoint is right.

Wes

[target4fun]

When i was in high school about 2 years ago I wore a shirt that said marine sniper one shot one kill, got a few grins and comments from students and teachers alike but despite there liberal gun bashing comments i wore it anyways! Im glad this kid stood up its hard sometimes to bear when the teacher's and students are against guns and afraid of guns but i never let it bother me i just smiled. If i were the kid i probably would have bought about 7 more of those shirt's one for every day of the week, never give in the second we do they belive there right.

[DadOfThree]

My rifle, without me is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless.
That is the offensive part. They don't want the kids to learn that without a person to point and pull the trigger, the rifle is useless (harmless).
Wouldn't want the kids picking up that kind of propaganda on the streets. :banghead: