AR BCG : speak up, speak out


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Wargarden
April 7, 2013, 12:42 PM
Ive been reading up on BCGs for my build. Now I want to hear some advice and opinions. (of course everytime I put that in a thread it gets closed , lol. )

I'm going for durability. Leaning towards an auto for that reason.

Is that dumb? Does it really matter?

Also, manufactures...I've heard good and bad about different ones. Opinions?

And all the materials? Nitride coating, nickel boron...advantages and disasvantages?

Thanks much!

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theautobahn
April 7, 2013, 12:50 PM
I like the self-lubricating finishes like np3, etc. Makes cleaning easier and while you should obviously still lube it, it will cut down on wear if you run a high round count between cleanings.

GCMkc
April 7, 2013, 12:56 PM
I don't think it matters if it's a full auto carrier or a semi if you are only running a semi-auto rifle. I have both and I would say the bolts would be the first to go before the carrier (can the carriers even break?).

The bcg's with NP3 or all chrome will be easier to clean and probably will last longer.

I am not an expert. :D

BTW, my bcg's are factory DPMS and two no name bcg's (one is all chrome and the other is not). The DPMS and non-chrome no name have seen thousands of rounds and are running just fine. The chrome bcg is unfired.

NeuseRvrRat
April 7, 2013, 12:56 PM
what are you going to do with the rifle?

briansmithwins
April 7, 2013, 01:27 PM
I prefer the M16 carriers personally. Haven't tried any of the new super coatings so I won't comment on them.

There is a current maker of AR BCGs that has a batch of bad bolts. The bolts are stripping all the locking lugs off the bolt, typically under 100 rounds.

ARs are known for breaking bolts that are in spec, but that failure is typically only the two lugs closest to the extractor or at the cam pin hole. Neither of those failures is dangerous to the operator, except that it causes a stoppage.

BSW

M1key
April 7, 2013, 01:31 PM
There is a current maker of AR BCGs that has a batch of bad bolts. The bolts are stripping all the locking lugs off the bolt, typically under 100 rounds.

Care to name that maker? I would be interested since I want to order a few spares...

M

Destructo6
April 7, 2013, 01:34 PM
Brian, which mfg is that?

briansmithwins
April 7, 2013, 02:05 PM
Links to original stories:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/500992_Delton_bcg_failure_Pics_up_in_OP.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/604826_Bolt_Fail_with_pic_.html

http://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=471

BSW

mtrmn
April 7, 2013, 02:59 PM
If building a carbine, go with the M16 (full auto) carrier for the extra weight. This will help improve the timing/recoil of the weapon. Especially if you plan to shoot 5.56 ammo.

gidaeon
April 7, 2013, 03:33 PM
Do NOT buy a bolt that is 8620 like the carrier regardless of semi or F/A carrier. Such bolts are being purchased by some without knowing better or being informed of actual bolt material. Quick research will demonstrate worn or broken lugs far too quickly.

Stick to either Carpenter 158 or 9310 for the bolt material, preferably mpi marked or hpt'd.

meanmrmustard
April 7, 2013, 03:53 PM
Do NOT buy a bolt that is 8620 like the carrier regardless of semi or F/A carrier. Such bolts are being purchased by some without knowing better or being informed of actual bolt material. Quick research will demonstrate worn or broken lugs far too quickly.

Stick to either Carpenter 158 or 9310 for the bolt material, preferably mpi marked or hpt'd.
Depends on how much shooting you really do.

The hobbyist doing a budget build for a truck/farm gun isn't probably going to run it hard enough to wear it out that quickly.

I've no qualms with 8620, but I prefer it nickel coated.

Wargarden
April 7, 2013, 09:23 PM
Someone asked what I was using it for. To be honest, its a battle rifle. I hope I never have to use. It's gonna punch some paper, but I have an m4-22 to run to death.
that is why my questions lately have concerned durability and life span.

I'm curious as I plan to also get a 300 blackout barrel so I can run a suppressor. I'm not to concerned about ballistics outside of 200-300 yds. (im of the understanding that if I have a 5.56 bcg, all I need to trade out is the barrel...please correct me if I'm wrong. )
Is the upgrade in caliber something that will put extra wear on the bolt. With that caliber, I dint figure it would, but I want sure.

Otto
April 7, 2013, 10:00 PM
If you can find one get a Bravo BCG.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm

Quentin
April 8, 2013, 02:41 AM
Battle rifle, or at least an AR that can stand up to hard use... Than I agree with Otto, that BCM is as good as it gets. I have two and a Daniel Defense BCG since I want quality in a stressed unit like the bolt.

Special coatings are not necessary.

meanmrmustard
April 8, 2013, 08:20 AM
Someone asked what I was using it for. To be honest, its a battle rifle. I hope I never have to use. It's gonna punch some paper, but I have an m4-22 to run to death.
that is why my questions lately have concerned durability and life span.

I'm curious as I plan to also get a 300 blackout barrel so I can run a suppressor. I'm not to concerned about ballistics outside of 200-300 yds. (im of the understanding that if I have a 5.56 bcg, all I need to trade out is the barrel...please correct me if I'm wrong. )
Is the upgrade in caliber something that will put extra wear on the bolt. With that caliber, I dint figure it would, but I want sure.
If its going to see a lot of use, go big or go home. BCM or Fail Zero are good choices.

As for the 300 BLK, I remember Travis Haley saying something to the affect of changing gas tubes. I'll look for the video.

Edit: Found it.... http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DtgKjbySsAik

mtrmn
April 8, 2013, 09:09 AM
Someone asked what I was using it for. To be honest, its a battle rifle. I hope I never have to use. It's gonna punch some paper, but I have an m4-22 to run to death.
that is why my questions lately have concerned durability and life span.

I'm curious as I plan to also get a 300 blackout barrel so I can run a suppressor. I'm not to concerned about ballistics outside of 200-300 yds. (im of the understanding that if I have a 5.56 bcg, all I need to trade out is the barrel...please correct me if I'm wrong. )
Is the upgrade in caliber something that will put extra wear on the bolt. With that caliber, I dint figure it would, but I want sure.

Build your "battle rifle" in 5.56 and get another complete upper in 300 BO. Just a matter of pushing out the 2 pins and swapping uppers. Just my opinion, YMMV.

gotigers
April 8, 2013, 09:19 AM
any BCG made by a reputible manufacturer. Young, Spikes, CMT, BCM, PSA, Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense, Etc and many more. Semi auto is ok, full auto is best. Try to find one that has the neck of the bolt stamped "MP". That stamp shows it was individually tested.

Edit:

I would not worry about getting chrome coated. Not worth it to me.

I have seen bad BCGs by WND, (if i think of more bad ones, i ll post them.).

taliv
April 8, 2013, 10:11 AM
as far as i know, the only difference between the "auto" and "semi" versions is a tiny bit of extra meat on the bottom rear of the carrier that trips the auto sear on a machine gun, and adds a tiny bit of extra mass.

as with most things in life, you get what you pay for, but i sure wouldn't spend the going rates on BCG today unless i had no choice. BCMs used to sell for about $130. with realistic inflation (not the gov rates) $170 is probably a reasonable price. The $220 price with NRA donation is genius.

I wouldn't hesitate to use a daniel defense carrier.

Do not spend the money for TiN coating. Some of the newer coatings and the fail zero stuff are supposed to be pretty good though I have not used them personally.

JustinJ
April 8, 2013, 01:00 PM
I put an NP3 BCG and hammer in a Colt that i shoot suppressed. No, you can't just wipe away all the carbon with a dry rag but they definitely clean easier. I've had no issues but really none before either. I do see how it would certainly contribute to improved reliability in a very dirty or dry gun. The NP3 coated carrier i bought also came with a coated hammer which i found to be the most benefitial as it essentially took out all the trigger creep.

ApacheCoTodd
April 8, 2013, 01:43 PM
As far as the semi/select fire cut carriers are concerned, I've had three interactions to date with ill/poorly informed law enforcement types regarding the legality of the carrier as an identifying feature of a machine gun.

NOW, right or wrong, jurisdictions and documentation aside, I generally now prefer to not even have it come up and opt for the semi cut when all other issues are equal.

JustinJ
April 8, 2013, 02:15 PM
As far as the semi/select fire cut carriers are concerned, I've had three interactions to date with ill/poorly informed law enforcement types regarding the legality of the carrier as an identifying feature of a machine gun.

NOW, right or wrong, jurisdictions and documentation aside, I generally now prefer to not even have it come up and opt for the semi cut when all other issues are equal.

Outside of conversation how would it come up to begin with? Even if it did, I would expect the vast majority of LE to be unable to visually differentiate a SA from a FA carrier.

ApacheCoTodd
April 8, 2013, 02:26 PM
Outside of conversation how would it come up to begin with? Even if it did, I would expect the vast majority of LE to be unable to visually differentiate a SA from a FA carrier.
I'm just sayin' that it HAS come up three times for me and regardless of the particular scenarios I prefer to not have the converstions again if at all possible.

So for my part, it's not an issue of "... even if it did..." - it has and I didn't like it though there was nothing long term about it. Just poorly informed LEAs napping through a briefing once or scanning a department circular maybe then for myriad possible reasons, coming across a carrier and saying, "aha!"

In one case I was an "expert defense witness" in a federal case and the carrier was an "add-on" in the quest to saddle a Marine with intent to construct a clandestine machine gun.

I pass it on only as a consideration and not a rule to be debated as to likelihood of scenarios or legality. Just simple friendly advice.

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