.22 Caliber rifle


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JamesHarrison1212
April 7, 2013, 05:43 PM
Hi, I am a newby to guns and I am wanting to get a good .22 calibre rifle. I am most likely going to put a scope on it as well. I would like an accurate, durable, reliable gun.
The purpose of the gun is going to be for target practice, small game, and coyote hunting.
I am trying to decide between bolt and semi-auto rifle.
I have been looking at the CZ 452 I think this is a very good gun, everyone keeps telling me to get the ruger 10/22 but feel it is not that great a gun until you do mods to this gun. I would like a gun that is going to be great right out of the box.
I would really appreciate getting an opinon on what to get I feel my top price would be about $700 with a scope. So about $550 to $600 tops for the gun.

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NeuseRvrRat
April 7, 2013, 05:49 PM
the CZ 452 would be a fine choice

pikid89
April 7, 2013, 05:51 PM
Im not sure why you think the 10/22 is "not that great a gun until you do mods"

all 3 of mine have been great. they are all bone stock, save for the stocks, which were changed to meet the desired use, but functionally, they are bone stock. Sure, they are no anschutz olympic small bore accurate, but for a $200 rifle, they dont need to be. THere is a reason they are the number 1 selling 22 rifle of all time. They are perfectly capable of doing everything they were deigned to do, which is everything that you listed.

I use mine for hog hunting, Appeseeds (which it is every bit accurate enough to score rifleman, bone stock), and Steel Challenge Rimfire rifle division.

If you dont want a 10/22 because there are other rifles you like better, then more power to you

but to discredit the rifle due to others poor opinions of it, that they try to put unrealistic expectations upon for a economical mass produced rifle, just isnt fair to the rifle.

as for a choice in your price range, perhaps try to find a nice bolt action Savage heavy barrel rifle, or a Ruger M77/22, or a CZ of some sort, with a quality Adjustable Objective scope.

Or with that kind of budget, you really could do a custom 10/22 that you could build to whatever configuration you so desire

ford8nr
April 7, 2013, 06:01 PM
I'd second pikid's response. A 10/22 is a great all around gun, its' weak point is a bad trigger that can be fixed for under $100. As far as bolts go if you can find a CZ452 Varmint, it has a medium weight bbl and can shoot...see 1st quarter and this quarter rim fire challenge thread. My other personal choice would be a Ruger 77/22 or 77/22 mag.

wrs840
April 7, 2013, 06:10 PM
A used Marlin M60 with Williams Firesights is my favorite recommendation because they're just so handy and fun.

$100 for the rifle, $30 for the sights, spend $12 for a Spee-D-Loader, and the rest on ammo.

my $.02, I'm glad to be wrong and probably am.

PapaG
April 7, 2013, 06:13 PM
I have had a dozen 10-22s and still have two, one the standard carbine and the other the target version with the hammer forged barrel. Volquartzen hammers, accurizing block and stock bolts, good scopes. Target model does ragged holes at fifty yards for a magazine full. It leaves me wanting at the small bore bench rest matches where the x ring is about the size of the end of a coffee stirrer. A 455 CZ varmint has replaced it for those matches. All good guns but as a buddy who has mentored me in the small bore sports said, "shooting groups ain't like shooting them bullseyes".

allaroundhunter
April 7, 2013, 06:21 PM
For a first rifle, you can't go wrong with a 10/22. I don't know where you have heard that they are bad guns, but you have been misinformed. That said, CZ makes fine rifles, from .22 on up.

For target practice and small game, the .22 Long Rifle is great, but I would not recommend it for coyote hunting. It is not common to be able to get a coyote within 50 yards, and I wouldn't take a shot further than that because the kill zone on a coyote's head is small, and the critters don't stand still for long. I don't trust the .22 LR for shots at the chest vitals of an animal that size.

Sent from my HTC One X

Captains1911
April 7, 2013, 06:27 PM
If the 10/22 wasn't that good out of the box then it wouldn't be the most popular .22 rifle in the world with millions sold.

I'm not a coyote hunter, but is .22LR adequate?

allaroundhunter
April 7, 2013, 06:44 PM
I'm not a coyote hunter, but is .22LR adequate?

For taking a chance shot at one in the yard? Yes. For actually hunting them? No.


Sent from my HTC One X

beatledog7
April 7, 2013, 07:12 PM
I've never owned a 10/22, but I do own a CZ 452. A superbly accurate rifle.

NeuseRvrRat
April 7, 2013, 07:33 PM
the stock 10/22 i owned wouldn't do anything that a $125 marlin wouldn't do. unless you want to do a bunch of customizing, then i don't see a reason to spend the extra money for the ruger.

out of the box, neither the ruger nor the marlins will hold a candle to my CZ 455 American. just my experience.

1411
April 7, 2013, 07:37 PM
I love my 10/22, only mods I have are tech sights and sling swivels. AKA Appleseed Liberty Rifle.

Kiln
April 7, 2013, 07:39 PM
I've got a couple of .22lr rifles.

The Mossberg 702 is really light and fairly compact. Makes for a great ranch type rifle for small varmints and scaring off coyotes.

The Savage semi auto rifle I have is actually accurate enough to mount a scope on but I haven't because it works just fine with basic iron sights.

SleazyRider
April 7, 2013, 07:51 PM
The CZ is a bolt action; the Ruger is a 10-round semi-automatic, making it the perfect Appleseed machine. The 10/22 responds extremely well to modifications, including a trigger job, chamber, bedding, and barrel work; perhaps that's where it got the reputation of "needing" this work. The aftermarket parts availability for the 10/22 has become a cottage industry in its own right, so if you like tinkering, the 10/22 is right for you. But it's fine out of the box, too.

The CZ needs nothing, with the possible exception of an easy-to-install spacer to take up trigger creep. It's handsome to boot, especially in the full-stock version. If accuracy is what you're after, I'd opt for the CZ.

Reloadron
April 7, 2013, 08:00 PM
You won't go wrong with the CZ 452, accurate great target rifle. In my opinion well worth the higher price over similar rifles.

The Ruger 10/22 is a good rifle and a good rifle right out of the box. Taught my son to shoot with one and now the grandson is learning on that same 10/22. Right out of the box.

I also like the older Remington bolt action 22 rifles. A rifle like the Model 511 can be had pretty reasonable at a gun show or online. They are old but very durable and accurate. I have several of the old 500 series 22 rifles and love them all to no end.

As to the 22 LR and the coyote? My thinking runs with allaroundhunter:

For target practice and small game, the .22 Long Rifle is great, but I would not recommend it for coyote hunting. It is not common to be able to get a coyote within 50 yards, and I wouldn't take a shot further than that because the kill zone on a coyote's head is small, and the critters don't stand still for long. I don't trust the .22 LR for shots at the chest vitals of an animal that size.


Not saying a 22 LR won't kill a coyote because it will under the right conditions. I would just prefer another caliber like the 17 HMR.

Just My Take
Ron

redneck2
April 7, 2013, 08:02 PM
I've had two 10/22's and now have a CZ. The Rugers are quite suited to what they are made to be. Dependable and relatively accurate.

Interesting to note with the previous replies......as soon as we start talking superb accuracy different modifications start popping up. Guys say "well, a 10/22 with a new trigger, new stock, and new barrel is really good."

Yeah, and it's no longer a 10/22. You just spent $700 to make a $300 rifle shoot well

My CZ 4453 Varminter with the single set trigger shoots measured .2's at 50 yards with Wolf Match ammo. It has a very high end 4x14x40 scope which helps a lot.

If you want something that's adequate and dependable, get a Ruger. If you want really good accuracy I'd get the CZ.

MedWheeler
April 7, 2013, 08:32 PM
I'd like to try the CZ one day but, with the ammo situation the way it is, that's not gonna happen.
I've had my 1022 since 1986, and have nothing but good to say of it. I scoped it later that year with a Bushnell 3x7 rimfire scope that seems to work just fine. The rifle (standard carbine model) was fitted with the Tapco Intrafuse AR-type stock in 2011, with their M4-style buttstock. It retains the scope, and is also set up with Ruger's BX-25 magazine and a sling. I had planned to attend an Appleseed event sometime this year, which would be my first, but the ammunition situation may well put a damper on those plans.
But, I have no doubt it would serve me well at such an event.

TexasPatriot.308
April 7, 2013, 09:30 PM
unless you got lots of bucks you want to spend....the Ruger 10/22 gets the job done. if you got the money spend it on fancy stuff. I stay with a proven product and as far as I am concerned, the .22 is a .22. still got a 60 year old "Sears and Roebuck" single shot (made by Marlin) that will outshoot any fancy rifle.

22-rimfire
April 7, 2013, 09:52 PM
I have my doubts about "outshoot any fancy rifle".... but it is possible. I dislike single shot 22 rifles.

Choosing a rifle.... The CZ 452/453/455 are good choices as are the different versions of the CZ bolt action rifle that are available. They typically shoot real good.

My favorite 22 rifle is a Remington 541-S. It is not the most accurate 22 rifle I own, but it will hold its own with most CZ's. Basically if you can shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yds, that is the mark of an accurate sporter 22 rifle. You can buy better and often they do shoot a little better when you find the right ammo/gun combination.

A bolt action 22 rifle is a good choice for small game but a poor choice for coyotes. When I say "small game", I mean rabbits and squirrels that are "sitting", not running.

I really like the Ruger 10/22 for small game hunting, especially rabbits and I can shoot them on the jump often. Lots of fun. The thing about Ruger 10/22's is that they typically are squirrel accurate, not particularly highly accurate out of the box. That is okay, but you need to know what you are buying. They are typically 1" group kind of accurate out of the box.

The Marlin M60 is a good choice also and they typically are more accurate than the Ruger out of the box.

If I were planning to hunt coyotes with a rimfire, I'd choose a 22 WMR. Better range and more knock down potential. But not a good choice for plinking.

The semi-auto 22 that was both accurate and semi-auto was the Thompson Center R55. They had problems with their match chamber chipping and most have been sent back to TC. TC does not sell them anymore. But you could expect 1/2" or slightly better at 50 yds with them. I get 0.3" kind of 5-shot groups with standard velocity ammo with mine.

The Weatherby Mark XXII semi-auto is another semi-auto that was very accurate and long discontinued (since around 1990). Weatherby came out with a bolt action Mark XXII rifle a few years ago with the barrel and action made by Anshutz with a fancy Weatherby stock. They were typically very accurate. But have been discontinued. The high end 22 rifles is a specialized market. Not everyone will shell out $900 for a 22 rifle.

The current Remington 547 is a great rifle if you have around $1000 to spend on a 22 rifle. It has a custom barrel and match chamber.

For a more economy priced but accurate 22 rifle, consider the Savage Mark II (bolt action). They typically shoot as well as the CZ's. With most of the CZ models you get a walnut stock which I prefer. I have a Mark II with a walnut stock; that particular version has been discontinued. (Cost more.)

If you want an out of the box accurate semi-auto 22 (10/22), I would suggest you look at something made by Magnum Research.

It is hard to get everything in a semi-auto rifle but the TC and Weatherby deliverered on accuracy.

PlaneJain
April 7, 2013, 10:01 PM
Another vote for the CZ 455.
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/Planejain/100_5932_zpsb977392a.jpg

Master Blaster
April 7, 2013, 10:16 PM
You cannot go wrong with the CZ 452, 453 or 455 rifles, they are by far the best bang for the buck and the integrated dovetail in the top of the receiver makes it easy to securely mount a scope. If you go with one of the 452 models like the special or the full stock you will also get a very good set of open iron sights. I own many .22 rifles from the 10/22 to an Anschutz 54 Heavy Barrel match model. The CZ will shoot with any similar barrel weight rifles. The 10/22 is a great rifle, but you have to put $400 into a barrel, trigger, and stock to make it shoot as good as a CZ does out of the box. I know beacuse I own 4 10/22s all built into different configurations, one mostly stock, and 3 cz rifles all stock except for the trigger spring which I modded myself. I shoot .22 rifle every week and in some club competitions. The 10/22 is a fun rifle to shoot as well so maybe you need one of each, a CZ and a 10/22. For Coyote Hunting you may want to consider a CZ .17 HMR rifle, it will also shoot very well in 100 yard target competitions where it will outshoot a .22 magnum.

Geno
April 7, 2013, 10:24 PM
My Savage Mark II ($169.00), with Leupold scope ($250ish) will place 10 shots touching at 25 yards, no problem at all. It also groups 10 shots into 2.5" at 100 yards, same set-up. I'm talking hunting ammo, not target ammo. 8^)

I would never hunt coyote with it, regardless of accuracy. It has insufficient power.

Geno

natman
April 8, 2013, 03:00 AM
Im not sure why you think the 10/22 is "not that great a gun until you do mods"


Because it has a heavy trigger and a sloppy chamber stock.

I know it's fairly easy to correct these things (I have 5 custom 10/22s), but the OP clearly states "I would like a gun that is going to be great right out of the box.".

That being the case, there are better choices than a 10/22.

HB
April 8, 2013, 03:51 AM
CZ or Savage all the way. If you want to plink at cans the 10/22 is perfect but if you want to hit empty 9mm cases at 50 yards go with a bolt and a nice scope. Cans are huge unless you want to hit them at 200 yards :evil:

HB

bannockburn
April 8, 2013, 10:32 AM
In a .22 rifle my choices would be a CZ 452 or 455 in a bolt action, a Ruger 10/22 in a semi-auto.

ford8nr
April 8, 2013, 10:46 AM
I keep reading threads about everyone's super accurate .22's Let's see more targets posted on the 2nd quarter .22 shoot thread. Only takes 5 shots ;)

SleazyRider
April 8, 2013, 11:18 AM
... still got a 60 year old "Sears and Roebuck" single shot (made by Marlin) that will outshoot any fancy rifle.
To what do you attribute this accuracy? What, precisely, is missing in modern "fancy" rifles that make this 60-year rifle superior?

Caliper_RWVA
April 8, 2013, 11:20 AM
Let's see, a CZ452 is a $400 or so rifle (per Buds Gun Shop) 10/22's are around $200... Yeah, the CZ had better outshoot the Ruger out of the box. Either is a good choice, just pick if you want a semi or bolt action.

Many people seem to like to replace everything Ruger in their 10/22 except the mag, but the 10/22 is a good rifle out of the box too. Only bad point out of the box is the sights they put on them. It's just not a setup that makes for an easy sight picture. Some sort of receiver mounted aperture sight (Tech Sights, Williams, Lyman) or a scope will fix that. A 10/22 with nothing more than a second mag, Tech Sights and a GI web sling will easily score Rifleman at an Appleseed if the shooter is up to it.

BTW: since you say you are a newbie to guns, whatever rifle you choose you should seriously think about attending a Project Appleseed event. I am an Instructor and have seen our instruction time and again shrink down the group size of even experienced shooters. Starting fresh like you are, you will not have any bad habbits to un-learn either.

mdauben
April 8, 2013, 11:28 AM
Hi, I am a newby to guns and I am wanting to get a good .22 calibre rifle. I am most likely going to put a scope on it as well. I would like an accurate, durable, reliable gun.
My personal opinions:

Bolt-Action - The CZ would be my first choice, with the Savage Model II a close second, especially if price is an issue.
Semi-Auto - Despite the widespread popularity of the 10/22, I would pick the Marlin Model 60 for out-of-the-box accuracy, with the 10/22 as second choice (unless you are looking for a 'project' gun, in which case the 10/22 is what you want).

Unless you are looking at especially demanding roles for your rifle (competative benchrest shooting, extreme range hunting) any of these should work just fine.

high country
April 8, 2013, 11:56 AM
If you are considering a 10/22, you should definitely also consider a marlin, either a model 60 or a 795. They are good right out of the box, and a great value. I picked up a 795 a few years ago, and it makes an excellent all around plinker/small game rifle (although I agree with everyone else, .22lr is insufficient to hunt coyote at any significant range).

If you think you might do an appleseed event at some point, which you should, the 795 would be a better choice. Add a sling and some tech sights, pick up a few extra magazines and you will be in business. You could have the rifle, sling, sights, and a couple spare magazines for $250 if you shop for sales. You can mount a scope on it too if that is your preference. I have a model 60 with a little 4x rimfire scope on it and that thing is deadly on prairie dogs!

Good luck with your purchase :)

freewheeling
April 8, 2013, 12:10 PM
The CZ512 is a semi-auto .22LR. Best of both worlds, or a suboptimal compromise? I dunno, but would love to have one to check it out.

X-Rap
April 8, 2013, 12:18 PM
Of all my 22's the one that gets used the most is a 10/22 with 2 simple mods. It has a Butler Creek folding stock and a 2x7 Redfield scope. I have no trouble taking rock squirels out to 150 yds and it will ring the 3" dinger at 100 until the ammo is all gone.
They are hard to find now but in the past and hopefully the future they were available for $125 used on a regular basis.

StrutStopper
April 8, 2013, 01:49 PM
If one of the primary uses of this gun is coyote hunting, I'd go with a .22WMR, not .22LR. Of course, you can get a CZ 455 with both barrels and swap them out accordingly.

non2os13
April 8, 2013, 08:10 PM
I have several 22's and the jack of all trade 22 that i almost always use is a marlin 981t. Tube feed bolt action that will shoot anything from cb shorts to cci stingers.

Cee Zee
April 8, 2013, 09:09 PM
If you want accuracy the CZ is the far better choice of the two rifles you mentioned. I love my 453. Extremely well built, beautiful and very accurate right out of the box. The 10/22 is not that accurate out of the box. It's ok but it's nothing like a CZ.

Im not sure why you think the 10/22 is "not that great a gun until you do mods"

I sure know why he's heard that. It's because they aren't that accurate until they're modified. Once in a while you'll see one that shoots accurate out of the box or so people tell me. I've never seen one. I've seen them get embarrassed by Marlin 60's time after time and the Marlin's are a lot cheaper. BTW the Ruger is NOT the most popular rimfire rifle. It's not even close. Marlin sells twice as many 60's. They always have. The last count I saw was 12 million 60's sold to 5 million 10/22's sold. I believe that makes the Marlin the most popular .22 by a big margin.

If you want a good semi-auto get a Marlin 60 unless you want to spend the money to upgrade the Ruger. If you do that the Ruger can be made to shoot much more accurate. But it won't be cheap to do. If you want a bolt action either get that CZ or a Savage. My Savage is actually more accurate than my CZ and it's had a lot less problems. But in the long run I think the CZ will be going a longer time.

IMO the 453 is worth the extra money. The improved trigger is great. The thing is the 452 is no longer in production and the 453 will probably go out of production soon because they're going to make the single set trigger an option on the 455. I've heard mixed reports on that trigger. It's not as good as the 453 trigger but it doesn't cost as much either. I'd get a 453 if you can find one. Well in fact I "did" get a 453. I have a couple of Marlin 60's too. I don't own any Ruger 10/22's. I think other rifles are a better deal. Yes you can make a Ruger into a great rifle but it will cost you big bucks. I'd rather go ahead and buy a really good rifle based on the 10/22. It's cheaper that way and you don't end up tossing parts in the trash because you have better parts.

CB900F
April 8, 2013, 09:48 PM
James;

I've got "several" .22 rimfire guns, of which there are a few CZ's and a few Ruger 10/22's. As a new gun, for doing what you stated, the CZ is a better match for your desires. Here's some basic differences amongst the CZ family. The 452 has a traditional barrel that's screwed into the action, just like most centerfire guns. The 453 is the same gun but with a single-set trigger. If the target shooting is most important to you, this would be a very useful feature. The 455's are built with a slip-in barrel, just like the Ruger 10/22. If, for some reason, the 452 trigger isn't what you want the extremely reasonable YoDave kit is available. I don't know what it sells for these days, but about $25.00 would be my guess. Go to Rimfire Central's CZ forum for all the latest & greatest data.

As I stated, I've got 10/22's also of all sorts even one personally built by a certain person in Carroll Iowa. However, if you do your ammo testing, and that's something that's needed with every .22 regardless of make or model once the word accuracy is mentioned, the CZ will outshoot the Ruger as an out-of-the-box gun just about every single time.

900F

Cee Zee
April 8, 2013, 10:58 PM
The CZ will likely out shoot the Ruger no matter how much money you put into the Ruger too. Bolt action rifles are just more accurate. If accuracy is what you're looking for you will spend about $1000 trying to get the Ruger to match the CZ and most likely it never will. And the CZ is not the most accurate bolt action rifle going. We need to talk about Sako, Anschutz, and others. They cost a lot more too. :)

22-rimfire
April 8, 2013, 11:10 PM
The CZ512 is a semi-auto .22LR. Best of both worlds, or a suboptimal compromise? I dunno, but would love to have one to check it out.
I want to handle one too. You seldom see them for sale. (Actually I have NEVER seen one.) They are made in both 22LR and 22WMR. I want a 22LR, but it is not at the top of my priorty list. But if I ran into one and it was priced "fair", I'd probably buy one tomorrow. It is hard to find "fair" right now.

TexasPatriot.308
April 9, 2013, 07:29 AM
guess I am just a good shot still at 59. grew up shooting iron sight .22s and in the military using irons too. this little Sears and Roebuck still shoots water moccassins heads off at 30 plus yards with no problem.

CSG
April 9, 2013, 12:57 PM
Wow, I guess I don't know a good rifle as I have two 10/22's that are bone stock except for added scopes. I've never noticed anything not to like and the trigger is fine IMO.

MasterSergeantA
April 9, 2013, 01:08 PM
The CZ is a great rifle. I have a couple. But I also have eight 10/22s in varying configurations. And a couple of Marlin Glenfield 60s that have a bunch of years on them. All of them are good; just depends on what you really want. Different actions, different feeding, differing numbers of accessories. The 10/22 is THE most accessorized .22LR in the world. The CZ is a 'what-you-see-is-what-you-get' situation which, honestly, is a very good situation. Generally more accurate than the others and very well made. You really need to consider what you want and take the advice here for what it is worth.

And the .22LR is really marginal for song dogs. You might consider a .17HMR or .22WMR, if you don't want to move up to a centerfire. A CZ in .223 would be a good choice or even a NEF Handi-Rifle in that caliber.

ford8nr
April 9, 2013, 01:10 PM
It depends what you're comparing it to.
A 10/22 trigger is OK for a soda can plinking gun. I've owned a standard 10/22and a factory 10/22 Target. The differences between THOSE two triggers was HUGE :eek: Comparing the 10/22T trigger and that of my CZ452 Varmint or Win 52 makes the 10/22 trigger pretty crappy. Nothing a little polishing or aftermarket upgrade can't fix. That being said, comparing the CZ trigger to the Winchester, the CZ is worse.

Cee Zee
April 9, 2013, 02:23 PM
I really don't get this attraction to the 10/22 many people have. They're decent rifles that CAN be made into great rifles with money. But out of the box they are beat pretty much every time by Marlins and yes I've tried direct comparisons many times. Rugers aren't bad rifles but there are other rifles that are better no matter how you go. The only 10/22's that are really great IMO are the ones that people spend a bunch of money to make into great accuracy shooters. That is a good thing to have a semi-auto that shoots as good as they do. But the bling people want to hang on them is boring to me. I don't need a .22 that looks like a AR or a Buck Rogers ray gun. I need a .22 that will hit what I aim at.

Bolt action rifles are just naturally more accurate than semi-autos and CZ's are a really good choice. Yes they are more expensive than most Rugers but a person can buy a bolt action Savage that will be much more accurate than a Ruger 10/22 for about the same money as a lot of those 10/22's.

So that leaves buying a Ruger to build into a great shooter for me. And IMO a semi-auto is a fast action gun instead of an aim and fire gun. It's nice to have both of course but getting a semi-auto to shoot better than a really good bolt action rifle is going to be very hard to do.

Some people will swear the 10/22 is the best rifle ever made. That's the part I don't get. Yes they are decent rifles, even good rifles. But the "best"???? No freaking way they're the best at anything except maybe the most accurate semi-auto but it will take lots of money to make it that way. And it still won't shoot with something like a Sako or an Anschutz 54 series.

People just over hype those Rugers. They'll swear they're the most popular .22's and they're not. They'll say they're more accurate than any gun (yes I've seen that posted many, many times) and that's just wacky.

I don't have anything against Ruger. I own one. I did have something against the company years ago because of what Bill Ruger did but he's been gone a long time and mostly I've forgotten about that. It's just that some people really go overboard comparing them to much better shooting rifles like the CZ. A stock Ruger just will not shoot with a CZ. It won't even be close. I've tried that too. I own a CZ. I've shot several other CZ's. I've shots lots of Rugers. They are NOT in the same league as far as accuracy goes.

It gets to the point where I would avoid buying a 10/22 because I wouldn't want people thinking I'm one of those people that swear they're the best rifles made. They just aren't by a big margin. They aren't bad rifles. They're good rifles. But they are NOT super rifles. They get way more praise than they deserve IMO.

SwampWolf
April 9, 2013, 03:00 PM
The recently discontinued Remington Model 504 is a very well-made, accurate (at least mine is, equipped with a Nikon ProStaff, 4x, rimfire scope) and nice handling, .22 bolt-action rifle. They generally are selling new for around $400.00 or so.
Welcome to The High Road, JamesHarrison1212.

robby04162
April 9, 2013, 03:42 PM
I was lucky to pick up a Marlin 60 as my first rifle just before Marlin started to have trouble, didn't know it at the time either. The gun is well made and shoots extremely well. At the time I chose it because I was looking for simplicity and accuracy out of the box and it's exactly what I got. But as my tastes have changed with time I can definately see how a 10/22 could have gotten me by just as well if not better.

I'm just getting out of college and will be starting a new job soon, with that and a sudden increase in funds my next rifle will more than likely be a 10/22 that I can make my own and not worry about the cost going into the rifle.

That or hope Marlin starts making some higher capacity magazines for the 795 ;)

wrs840
April 9, 2013, 05:02 PM
I agree with Cee Zee.

The older Marlin 60 is, IMO, a great rifle, and I'm always keeping a peeper open for good used 60s or it's more elusive cousin, the shorter barrel Marlin 75.

If you want to have a much larger offering of aftermarket accessories available for your rifle, get a 10/22 for sure.

I think the Marlin 60 is more accurate, comparing the two out of the box though.

The Grand Baboon
April 9, 2013, 05:13 PM
Go with a CZ-452. They are elegant, accurate (1/2" MOA @ 50 yards with bulk pack ammo), and superbly built (steel, walnut, and more steel). The quality on CZ firearms is next to none for the price.

Cee Zee
April 9, 2013, 09:28 PM
The older Marlin 60 is, IMO, a great rifle

I have to say my newer 60 is better in some ways than my older 60. It's more accurate by a good amount but it's more picky about ammo than the old one. That's probably an indication of a tighter bore. I'm not getting rid of either rifle though. They both have their uses. I really like both of them and most of the other Marlins I have too.

mf-dif
April 9, 2013, 11:14 PM
Don't over look the Marlin XT line. It's a bargain at under $200 and very accurate. Has the adjustable trigger system between 3-5lbs.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/MF-DIF/20130409_212409_zpse15af87d.jpg

Dentite
April 10, 2013, 01:18 PM
Let's see, a CZ452 is a $400 or so rifle (per Buds Gun Shop) 10/22's are around $200... Yeah, the CZ had better outshoot the Ruger out of the box. Either is a good choice, just pick if you want a semi or bolt action.

People place value on different things. For some accuracy is the main priority and is what drives the purchase. For others, other qualities will factor into the purchase.

For example a lot of people spend over $1000 for a pre-64 Winchester 70 when an off the shelf $400 Savage will outshoot it.

I view the CZ 452 as something you could hand down to your kids...walnut and blued steel exude a bit more quality to me than an out of the box 10-22 with a syn stock or a cheap birch stock.

That being said you make some great points and I think the main thing the original poster needs to decide is whether he wants a bolt action or a semi.

The nice thing about .22LR rifles is that most are inexpensive enough that you can buy a few different types that will satisfy multiple desires.

I have a Remington 541S that is my favorite .22LR rifle to shoot but my Marlin 60 is fun as well. I will eventually get a 10-22 as well, and possibly a Savage MkII or CZ bolt action.

If I get rich someday I wouldn't mind a Cooper bolt action.

Lots of options out there that's for sure.

Caliper_RWVA
April 11, 2013, 11:16 AM
People place value on different things. For some accuracy is the main priority and is what drives the purchase. For others, other qualities will factor into the purchase.

I think you misinterpreted my point. I don't mean to say that the CZ isn't a great rifle. But to simply say that the CZ will outshoot a 10/22 and that makes the 10/22 a bad rifle ignores a few pieces of information. How I meant to come across is that the OP won't go wrong with either one.

Heck, I'm not even a 10/22 fan, I preferr the Remington 597 due to the better design of the action (looking for that flamesuit now...) I also love my Winchester 62, but the OP asked about the 452 and 10/22.

natman
April 11, 2013, 12:37 PM
But to simply say that the CZ will outshoot a 10/22 and that makes the 10/22 a bad rifle ignores a few pieces of information.

I don't recall anyone saying that a 10/22 is a "bad rifle". It does have some limitations, which can be overcome. But a CZ meets the OP's stated requirement much better, which is for "a gun that is going to be great RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX".

mac66
April 11, 2013, 01:21 PM
I have dozens of 22 rifles of all kinds from high end target rifles to low end plinkers. The 22 rifle I shoot the most is a pretty much stock (added a scope/sling) Ruger 10/22. From a standpoint of overall versatility, reliability and value it is a good choice. From an accuracy standpoint it is more accurate than the great majority of the people can shoot them ( I know because I teach rifle marksmanship to hundreds of people each year).

Buy whatever you want, but everybody should own a 10/22.

SleazyRider
April 11, 2013, 09:33 PM
The 10-round rotary magazine of the 10/22 is slicker than owl poop, in my opinion, and I like that they're fast and easy to change and don't hang down, leaving a nice clean line on the underside of the rifle. The clear plastic mags are an added touch.

Too bad my gov'nr will only allow me to load seven! :barf:

Cee Zee
April 16, 2013, 06:09 AM
The nice thing about .22LR rifles is that most are inexpensive enough that you can buy a few different types that will satisfy multiple desires.

That right there is the real answer to all of these questions. Get both. It works every time.

That said I certainly don't agree that everyone needs a 10/22. I don't have one, have never owned one and likely never will just because of comments like that. It turns me against the rifles that people try to preach them up as the greatest thing in firearms. They're ok. They're good even. They're not that great though. Nothing is. Still a Marlin 60 is a better out of the box semi-auto and to fill the needs of the OP, which he stated was accuracy, the CZ is head and shoulders above a Ruger 10/22.

BTW I think I originally didn't like Rugers because people kept telling me how great those rotary mags are. I can't stand the little buggers myself. Lots of rifles don't have mags that hang down below the rifle. Most notably the Marlin 60 fits that description and it holds far more ammo and loads far easier. That's why I really don't like those mags btw. They are freaking hard to load. My fingers hurt just thinking about it. Keeping that mag from twisting while you push rounds in is a big hassle. It doesn't compare with just dropping rounds in a Marlin or a Henry. The aftermarket mags are much better IMO because you can get a grip on those and load them. It doesn't take a 50 round mag to shoot ammo though. If you like that then go for it but don't expect to be able to use a rest. I have a Marlin XT that will hold 25 shorts in a tube mag that doesn't hang down at all.

I actually don't hate Rugers. They're pretty good rifles. They're better than most. They just aren't something everyone needs. That sort of hyperbole is what keeps me from ever wanting one. I wouldn't want people thinking I believed something like that. I wouldn't want people coming up to me at the gun range talking about how fabulous they are. They just aren't as good as people make them out to be. Haven't you ever gotten tired of hearing how great something is when you don't think it's great at all? The 10/22 is NOT a "great" rifle. It's a very good rifle yes. It's versatile, upgradeable, reliable and fairly accurate. But it isn't as accurate as a much cheaper rifle called the Marlin 60. Not until you add a bunch of bling on it anyway. By that time you could have bought a really good rifle that truly is great - like a CZ 452.

SleazyRider
April 16, 2013, 07:11 AM
[QUOTE=Cee Zee;8874666] ...
BTW I think I originally didn't like Rugers because people kept telling me how great those rotary mags are. I can't stand the little buggers myself. Lots of rifles don't have mags that hang down below the rifle. Most notably the Marlin 60 fits that description and it holds far more ammo and loads far easier. That's why I really don't like those mags btw. They are freaking hard to load. My fingers hurt just thinking about it. Keeping that mag from twisting while you push rounds in is a big hassle. It doesn't compare with just dropping rounds in a Marlin or a Henry. The aftermarket mags are much better IMO because you can get a grip on those and load them. It doesn't take a 50 round mag to shoot ammo though. If you like that then go for it but don't expect to be able to use a rest. I have a Marlin XT that will hold 25 shorts in a tube mag that doesn't hang down at all.
QUOTE]
Apples to oranges. The Marlin 60 has a tubular mag, which of course does not hang down. Additional "magazines" do not exist for tube mags, so when I shoot my Marlin 60 at, for example, an Appleeed event and need to reload fast, I keep additional rounds stored in several aluminum knitting needles that I stick in the ground for rapid access. The Marlin's ammo tube must be removed and additional rounds dumped in from he knitting needle. Many folks use aluminum arrows or plastic straws.

Fully loaded rotary mags are conveniently stored in speed loader pouches worn on one's belt or stored in the jacket pocket. They are changed in the blink of an eye.

In a perfect world, the Marlin 60 would have a rotary mag. :)

X-Rap
April 16, 2013, 10:04 AM
I won't say that the rotary is the best idea ever but I will say that for me a detachable mag is a must. Beyond that I do like the flush fit 10 rd and if I must have one hang down why not have it be a fairly robust 25 rd like that of the ruger.
I won't say that either the Marlin or CZ is more or less superior but in 40 or so yrs that I have owned a 10/22 I can honestly say I have never needed one more accurate and while I have not shot 22 competitively I have hunted and take small game well over 100yds and my original gun is still chugging along after only God knows how many thousands of rounds without a single repair.
There are many ways in which to judge a gun and many peoples different needs to factor in before one can say it is the only one they would ever need.

j1
April 16, 2013, 10:34 AM
To meet your stated desires the CZ 452 is unbeatable until you get into match grade rifles.:)

Cee Zee
April 16, 2013, 01:48 PM
In a perfect world, the Marlin 60 would have a rotary mag.

OMG NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) You have heard of the 795, right?

d2wing
April 17, 2013, 08:40 PM
I own several .22's including a modified 10/22. It is accurate out of the box but doesn't come close to either of my CZ s. out of the box, every CZ 452 or 455 is going to be very accurate. You may have to check for free float or tinker a little with the trigger or not. But you won't have so much the luck of the draw like a Savage or Marlin. Check actual competition shooters. They vote CZ. But the new rifles are all pretty good and might be fine for your needs. A buddy shoots coyotes with a .17 HMR. I don't know how ethical that is. I would use a .22 mag.

readyeddy
April 17, 2013, 08:58 PM
It depends on what kind of target practice and hunting you plan on doing.

If you need to print small groups on paper and get head shots on squirrels, the the bolt gun is better for your needs.

But if you plan on shooting soda cans at 50 - 100 yards and shooting rats in the barn, then the 10/22 is hard to beat right out of the box.

B!ngo
April 17, 2013, 10:02 PM
Statistically you are going to hear a lot of people swear by their 10/22. It is, after all, the most popular .22LR rifle and has been for a long time. But being very popular doesn't make it better. It's just popular. Probably because it's a lot of performance for the price, over time it has built a great ecosystem of parts and upgrades to turn it in to the gun or your choice. But again, none of these things make it 'better'.
The CZ is a fine rifle. Not as popular - too expensive for that, bolt operated which is not in as much demand, and it's not been around as long as the 10/22 meaning it won't have a big ecosystem of add-on's and mods. But it is a very fine rifle. If you have the money, are comfortable with the trade-offs of a bolt action, and plan to keep it as is, it's hard to imagine finding something better.
B

toivo
April 17, 2013, 10:38 PM
Choosing between a CZ bolt-action and a 10/22 is choosing between accuracy and rate-of-fire, really. The CZ will almost certainly be more accurate out-of-the-box, although a 10/22 can be accurized to a fairly high degree if you want to put money into it. A semi-auto is a lot of fun to plink with, but if you intend to go for any serious accuracy, it's going to cost you.

It all depends on what you want the rifle for.

ColtPythonElite
April 17, 2013, 10:52 PM
I quit fooling with 10/22's when I discovered CZs.

B!ngo
April 18, 2013, 12:39 AM
To what do you attribute this accuracy? What, precisely, is missing in modern "fancy" rifles that make this 60-year rifle superior?
I suspect the only thing missing is fond memories...
B

The Grand Baboon
April 18, 2013, 01:40 AM
Open sights all the way! CZ's are shootin' guns. I shot a 237 at my first Appleseed with this thing. It's taken more ground squirrels than I can count.


http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m522/zreed042/cz_452-1_zpsd4c9636f.jpg

mac66
April 18, 2013, 08:15 AM
Among my many 22s are some old bolt actions, tube feds, mag feds etc. They include Mossbergs, Winchesters, Marlins, Brownings, Savage/Stevens, Remingtons etc etc. I think people automatically think they need to get a new rifle and forget that 22s have been around for a more than a century. They also tend to forget that the old classic wood and steel rifles are very accurate and well made compared to some of the plastic parts guns made today.

The point is there are some, beautiful old 22s laying around forgotten in some pawn shop, out of the way gun shop or otherwise just waiting for someone to appreciate them again. Do some homework and think about going old school.

Bushpilot
April 18, 2013, 09:08 AM
For target practice and small game, the .22 Long Rifle is great, but I would not recommend it for coyote hunting.

For taking a chance shot at one in the yard? Yes. For actually hunting them? No

I would never hunt coyote with it, regardless of accuracy. It has insufficient power.

Ditto...

For the price that some 10/22's are bringing these days compared to a CZ Trainer or Basic, it's almost just a matter of deciding if you want a semi auto or a bolt action and how important that extra degree of accuracy is to you. For 90% of all 22 "jobs," a stock 10/22 is going to be just fine. However, for more precise plinking, hunting and entry level matches the CZ is going to have a definite advantage. CZ accuracy isn't internet hype. At the local, club level, rimfire events that I have attended the CZ's and Savages seem to lead the pack from a performance vs. cost standpoint. What I wouldn't recommend is buying a 10/22 with the idea of replacing all the parts to try and make it into something else. While you can make a 10/22 very accurate, you will be hard pressed to make it as accurate as other rifles available for similar amounts of money spent.

If you're really more interested in hunting coyotes than in target shooting with a 22, you might consider dividing up your $700, spending $150-250 on a serviceable, 22 rifle for plinking and small game and spending the rest on a coyote rifle. If you shop around a little you can find a new or used .22 Hornet, 222, 223 or 22-250 for the remainder of your budget that will do a far better job on coyotes than any 22LR.
___________________________
4 CZ's and counting...

I6turbo
April 18, 2013, 12:08 PM
Hi, I am a newby to guns and I am wanting to get a good .22 calibre rifle. I am most likely going to put a scope on it as well. I would like an accurate, durable, reliable gun.
The purpose of the gun is going to be for target practice, small game, and coyote hunting.
I am trying to decide between bolt and semi-auto rifle.
I have been looking at the CZ 452 I think this is a very good gun, everyone keeps telling me to get the ruger 10/22 but feel it is not that great a gun until you do mods to this gun. I would like a gun that is going to be great right out of the box.
I would really appreciate getting an opinon on what to get I feel my top price would be about $700 with a scope. So about $550 to $600 tops for the gun.
James, here's my story on these two guns.

I have a number of guns, and have been a shooter and gun enthusiast since I was about 6 years old. I have a 1966 model 10/22 which is probably the gun that I'm most emotionally or sentimentally attached to of any gun that I have. More rounds through it, more experiences with it - childhood and adult - and it's just a gun that I would never voluntarily give up. In addition to all else, it is a great shooter, very accurate.

In early 2012 I was doing some homework on what gun to buy as my oldest son's first rifle. After stumbling onto rimfirecentral.com (foremost a 10/22 site, but also has forums for just about any rimfire you can name) and reading a lot of the forums I became interested the CZ 452. In March 2012 I bought a 452 FS in .22 LR. In May we took the 452 and the 10/22 with us to the family farm where we fired about 1500 rounds over 4 or 5 days there. My son (8 years old) liked both guns, but really liked the 10/22 because of the semi-automatic action and the fact that the smaller 10/22 fit him at the time a little bit better. The 10/22 was a well-known gun for me of course, but I really loved the CZ and couldn't stop shooting it. Now, it's a year later and I've added three more 452s (American, Trainer, Scout), a CZ 511 semi-auto, a Brno Model 1 (forerunner to the 452 Military Trainer), a Brno Model 3 (heavy target gun based on the Model 1 action), a BRNO 611 semi-auto .22 Magnum, and three CZ centerfires. And I'm not unusual at all. It's a running joke on the CZ/BRNO forum at rimfirecentral that one CZ usually leads to many, an affliction known there as CZ-itus. A lot of those guys have a number of much higher priced, higher end guns, but really love the CZs for actual shooting.

I highly recommend you try a CZ 452. There is virtually no chance that you won't like the gun. It may or may not be your favorite that you ever own, but there's little chance that you won't like it. You can get a 10/22 next if you're still interested.

d2wing
April 18, 2013, 12:36 PM
I agree with I6turbo. As far as vintage guns goes, some are great shooters. I have a Winchester 74 SA that shoots really well but it took alot of parts scrounging and tinkering to repair. Same with a Vintage Marlin and Mossberg. Great shooters but needed good cleaning, parts replacement and repair. And they are accurate but not as accurate as the CZ's I own. But close enough that a good one would be a good buy if cheaper and was in mint condition.

LavaTech
April 18, 2013, 04:10 PM
I don't personally consider the 10-22 to be a "good to go out of the box" rifle by any means for the simple reason that the rear sight is as close to useless as any so-called engineer has ever achieved, thus it at least requires the purchase of useful sighting equipment. Keeping that in mind they are still a good value..... just not ready for prime-time out of the box.;)

Lots of good choices to be had, many recommended in this thread.:D

Cee Zee
April 20, 2013, 04:02 AM
Statistically you are going to hear a lot of people swear by their 10/22. It is, after all, the most popular .22LR rifle and has been for a long time.

That just is not true. The 10/22 has never been the most popular .22LR. Marlin 60's have doubled their sales from the very beginning of both back in the early 60's. The last count I saw was 12 million Model 60's sold vs. 5 million 10/22's sold. Marlins are cheaper, more accurate and more dependable and they don't have that round mag.

I don't often mention this because it just starts problems. I saw a poll about the most overrated rifle in history. The 10/22 won by a big margin (or lost depending on your point of view - it was the most overrated rifle ever according to the poll).

Again I don't hate Rugers. But I know they aren't the most popular .22LR ever. It's not even close. It's claims like those that keep me from ever buying one. The hype surrounding them is just too much for me.

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/marlin/96060-marlin-60-50th-anniversary-model.html

CB900F
April 20, 2013, 09:16 AM
James;

You should have been able to make up your mind by now. So whattaya gonna buy?

900F

Reloadron
April 20, 2013, 09:44 AM
James;

You should have been able to make up your mind by now. So whattaya gonna buy?

900F
Alas, the original posters only thread was this one on 07 April 2013 and it looks like he never returned. :(

However, it has proven to be an interesting thread with some good information shared. :)

Ron

mach1.3
April 20, 2013, 09:56 AM
Don't know if this was mentioned but the CZ America 455 Combo comes with two bbls. (a .22LR, a .17HMR or .22mag) I have the .22LR and .17hmr combo and I love it. Quality bolt gun with nice walnut stock and very accurate.

Deltaboy
April 20, 2013, 09:56 AM
Marlin 60.

X-Rap
April 20, 2013, 11:27 AM
Wow I googled Americas favorite 22LR and the first 10 pages didn't even mention CZ of Marlin. Couldn't bare to keep looking past 10 but I'm sure they are there.:rolleyes:

SleazyRider
April 20, 2013, 01:41 PM
Alas, the original posters only thread was this one on 07 April 2013 and it looks like he never returned. :(

However, it has proven to be an interesting thread with some good information shared. :)

Ron
His loss. As for me, it whetted my appetite for a CZ Lux.

jolly roger
April 20, 2013, 02:29 PM
I've got a Savage heavy fluted barrel with a Nikon Prostaff rimfire that I think I paid around $425 total for. It'll put Wolf match ammo into a 5 shot dime size group at 50 yards. The thing is I have a Henry lever action that is almost as accurate...go figure. It's sick for a lever gun...

rdhood
April 20, 2013, 04:38 PM
Interesting to note with the previous replies......as soon as we start talking superb accuracy different modifications start popping up. Guys say "well, a 10/22 with a new trigger, new stock, and new barrel is really good."

Yeah, and it's no longer a 10/22. You just spent $700 to make a $300 rifle shoot well


I have a $70 GM SS 20" sporter (12 days of Christmas sale), and Brimstone 3rd tier job ($40). It shoots ragged holes off the bench, and I shot expertx5 (rifleman five times) at my last Appleseed. So it might take an extra $100 (minimum) to make a $200 rifle shoot much better.

Reloadron
April 20, 2013, 05:02 PM
His loss. As for me, it whetted my appetite for a CZ Lux.

Same here, I have a small collection of 22 rimfire rifles and after this thread may finally break ranks from the older ones I love and think about a CZ addition. :)

Ron

CB900F
April 20, 2013, 06:06 PM
Reloadron;

Uh, I know the feeling. But, once I got my hands on my first CZ, I understand. With the sole exception of the triggerguard, the CZ will strongly evoke thoughts of the pre-64 model 70 Winchester. However, t'were I you, I'd go hunt for 452's rather than the newer 455 model CZ. The 452's have the barrel screwed into the action, whereas the 455 slips in & is held by a V-block ala the 10/22.

The triggerguard exception can be rectified also.

900F

Reloadron
April 20, 2013, 06:12 PM
Reloadron;

Uh, I know the feeling. But, once I got my hands on my first CZ, I understand. With the sole exception of the triggerguard, the CZ will strongly evoke thoughts of the pre-64 model 70 Winchester. However, t'were I you, I'd go hunt for 452's rather than the newer 455 model CZ. The 452's have the barrel screwed into the action, whereas the 455 slips in & is held by a V-block ala the 10/22.

The triggerguard exception can be rectified also.

900F
Thanks a bunch. I have yet to do any homework and knowing that is a good start.

I have quite a bit of .22 match type ammunition. My brother-in-law shot .22 match and passed away (I really miss that guy). Anyway my sister gave me all the ammunition he had. She did keep his .22 match rifle. I have to get a good look at that rifle as I am not sure what it was. Anyway, thanks a bunch for the info.

Ron

CB900F
April 20, 2013, 06:23 PM
Reloadron;

It's also my understanding that if you want a left-handed CZ .22, it will be a 452. The 455's are not being made with the bolt on the proper side of the action at this time. If you run across a 452 Mannlicher stock, grab it! The 453 is a 452 with a single-set trigger and only available in the right handed version. A place you'll want to visit & perhaps join is triple w rimfirecentral dot com, the BRNO/CZ forum.

900F

Motega
April 21, 2013, 02:29 PM
10/22. You don't need to modify anything. My non-gun friends that come shooting with me love it as well. This "mod" nonsense started WAY after the gun was a huge success, and in large part BECAUSE they are so great not because you need to do anything to them.
And you are short-changing yourself not to learn how to shoot with iron sights. It teaches you a lot about what you are doing wrong, especially breath control.
I know you probably have this picture in your head about your cool new rifle with the scope but be patient, scopes suck sometimes and it's going to double or triple the price of the purchase since I get the feeling you will be paying someone to mount/bore sight it for you. They completely change your field of vision, they suck when it's cold (even the best will have fog on the outside), and a cheap one does more harm than good.
I have plenty of scopes, but there are some guns that will never wear one and a .22 is one of them. My muzzleloader is another.
My .02

Motega
April 21, 2013, 02:38 PM
I just read some previous responses about the accuracy of the 10/22.
These guys are NUTS. My non-shooting friends- girls and guys alike- can usually hit a cherry tomato at 40 yards after a 10 minute tutorial/practice.
I know this because our usual game is to set up shish-kebob sticks on the rock wall as targets while we roast lunch/dinner on the fire.
I can hit a 6" plate at 50 yards every time and at 100 yards at least half the time with open sights.
It is a 100% stock gun that gets cleaned every 1500-2000 rounds and has 20,000+ rounds down the barrel. About 10 years old. My fathers is three times as old and has been cleaned about twice and still runs fine... when it starts jamming because there is literally caked on burnt powder he runs a bore snake through it with some crud cutter and it works fine again.
I'm not saying anything else is bad, but it's silly to say that a 10/22 "needs" anything.

Cee Zee
April 21, 2013, 11:16 PM
I can hit a 6" plate at 50 yards every time and at 100 yards at least half the time with open sights.

And you think that's good do you? If I owned a rifle that wouldn't do what you describe I'd throw it in the river because I wouldn't sell it to anyone since I don't want to rip anyone off and I dang sure wouldn't want to shoot it myself.

A 6" group at 50 yards is nothing friend. A 6" group at 100 yards with open sights is ok but nothing to write home about. I've seen far better.

Wow I googled Americas favorite 22LR and the first 10 pages didn't even mention CZ of Marlin

You realize that's a marketing slogan, right? A person can "say" anything. It doesn't make it true. What does prove which is more popular is the number sold and Marlin has doubled the sales of Ruger with the 60 vs. the 10/22.

Just to prove my point here's another marketing slogan that might catch your eye. ...Jimmy Twinkle and the BAD, were recently named America's favorite Rock Band... (http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/11/10/americas-favorite-rock-band-band-to-perform-20-hour-concert-in-times-square). Yeah we can forget Lynyrd Skynyrd now. Twinkle is tops now. Push off Pearl Jam. Adios Aerosmith. So long Santana. Ciao Chicago. Bye Bye Bruce. Hasta la vista Heart. It's the end for the Eagles. Steely Dan, Green Day, Metallica, Steppewolf, The Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Janis w/ Big Brother, The Jimi Hendrix Experience, The Doors, Fleetwood Mac, CS&N, - all have been upstaged by "Jimmy Twinkle". Like I said, it's easy to say it. It's another thing to prove it.

When Ruger sells more 10/22's then I'll start to pay attention. Until then I'll ignore wild claims of superiority by mad men (reference the tv show).

natman
April 22, 2013, 02:07 AM
I just read some previous responses about the accuracy of the 10/22.
These guys are NUTS. .....
I can hit a 6" plate at 50 yards every time and at 100 yards at least half the time with open sights.


I guess if you set your standards low enough, anything looks good. Being able to keep your shots within 6" at 50 yards (12 MOA!!) is not particularly accurate.

If you ever get a chance to shoot a good 22, you'll be in for a shock.

bluekouki86
April 22, 2013, 02:15 AM
I am not a fan of the 10/22 myself. I personally like the Marlin 60 or 75. I prefer tube fed guns is one of the main reasons. I own several Marlins and wouldn't let go of any of them.

afponiky
April 22, 2013, 02:21 AM
:what::rolleyes:

This thread has to get locked down.....

No way is this H.R. material.......

DM~
April 22, 2013, 07:03 PM
I have both, the 60 and the 10/22... I like the way the 60 "carrys in my hand", instead of like a beached whale like the 10/22. BUT, to be honest, i like my Remington 552 better than both of them, and it's the one i'd keep IF i ever had to sell two of the three.

DM

saenzrich
April 22, 2013, 10:02 PM
This thread has to get locked down.....

No way is this H.R. material.......

Unfortunately, there are a few too many people who forgot the main purpose of THR...

Which is to help others and take The High Road...there are to many people on this forum who's main objective is to belittle those not as "experienced" as them.

Rimfirecentral is a great place for any thing 22 related.

JamesHarrison1212
April 23, 2013, 08:46 PM
Thank you everyone that has wrote this has really helped me out. I actually got a couple guns given to me from the old farm we had. I now have 2 bolt action 22 rifles one being a repeater tube feed. They are two very old guns I cleaned them up and they work excellent. I am thinking though that I still want to get a auto feed rifle.
The type of auto feed that I want is something that the ruger 10/22 offers. I did not mean to put down the ruger it does have some things I like.
So for the auto feed I would like to get must have a clip, I kinda like how the ruger is hidden. I would really like a one that is going to be a little cheaper I dont need anything fancy I already have a couple good guns. I would like the gun to be reliable and be fairly accurate. I am just curious on a couple guns that are going to be cheap, reliable, and fairly accurate.

PedalBiker
April 23, 2013, 08:55 PM
I used to have a Marlin 60. The nice thing with tube feed is that you can get the right size vinyl tubing, seal one end and use them like speed loaders. Take out the tube, dump in the rounds and put the tube back in.

I have a Ruger 10/22 now, I like it too although the BX-25 magazines are about to be outlawed in the People's Republic of Colorado. Thanks for nothing Kefalas and Ginal.

Cee Zee
April 23, 2013, 10:35 PM
What people mean is that because others don't agree that the Ruger 10/22 is the rifle which sets the standards for "all" other rifles then this is not useful information.

That's the kind of stuff that will forever keep me from buying a 10/22. Sure they're nice rifles, better than most, and have some great features especially an aftermarket supply of parts that can't be beat. But those people that claim they are the be all and end all of rifles make me want to never be seen even holding a Ruger. I wouldn't want people thinking I'm one of those that think there's nothing better. They're fine rifles. But the idea that they're the most popular, best built, most accurate rifles on the planet is ridiculous. I've seen at least a dozen different Remington .22's I would pick over the Ruger 10/22. I like Marlins though. I have tube mag Marlins and box mag Marlins (the 795) that all shoot better than any stock Ruger I ever picked up. And I've been shooting a LOT since I was 7 years old which was 50 years ago. Shooting was a big thing in my family and I grew up doing it. I know the difference between an accurate rifle and one that is not so accurate. You can figure out the rest.

X-Rap
April 24, 2013, 09:45 AM
Ridiculous reasoning for not owning a gun but to each his own.

bigdaa
April 24, 2013, 09:57 AM
Most accurate 22 shooter I ever had was an old Marlin Glenfield Model 60 with the little squirrel on the side and the metal trigger housing.

From zero to 100 yards I could pick off anything my eyes back then could see, first shot, from shards of shiny glass to shotgun shells.

Sadly, I sold it to my long time friend for 20 bucks because he didn't have a gun.

My newer Model 60 does not shoot the same at all.

Sweetest 22 I had was a Browning Belgian Takedown with scope. It burned up in a house fire.

Now, I have 3 10/22's, all of which have been modified.

1st is now my older son's and it has a plain Midway 22 inch barrel, standard contour and a heavily reworked stock that is refinished.

2nd has a Fast twist fluted heavy barrel, a Boyd stock and is used for subsonic rounds.

3rd has a standard heavy barrel and a Boyd stock and is my youngest son's.

What gun in 22 do I want next?

Another Browning Takedown. Miroku would be just fine, brand new. It was the very fastest shooting little 22 I ever shot.

SwampWolf
April 24, 2013, 02:51 PM
Ridiculous reasoning for not owning a gun but to each his own.

I certainly agree with this. Because others like the little Ruger, even to a "fault", means I shouldn't consider getting one? Every brand and type of firearm have their followers, some even to the level of "fan boy" status. And that fact should keep me from even considering choosing a particular gun? If that was the case for me, there'd be no CZs or Marlins or Remingtons in my safe...

Cee Zee
April 24, 2013, 09:06 PM
I certainly agree with this. Because others like the little Ruger, even to a "fault", means I shouldn't consider getting one?

I've seen dozens of posts from different people who think the very same thing. Your disapproval is no reason for me to change my mind. I wouldn't want to be seen as a fan boy. It's that simple. I didn't want to use that term but since you brought it up.

You can think what you want but I don't see any ridiculous claims being made about CZ, Marlin or Remington. I've never seen anyone say there is no other gun worth buying than any of those guns but I've seen lots of people say that about 10/22's.

Whatever the case that's my opinion and you won't change it. To me it's like wearing a tin foil hat. Because some people think it protects you from the spy rays the phone cops use is a good reason for me not to want to wear a shiny hat any time soon. Some people are pretty much on that level when it comes to the 10/22. I don't want people thinking I'm one of them. There are lots of better choices for rimfire rifles unless I would suddenly want to develop a very accurate semi-auto and I found a money tree growing in my back yard.

saenzrich
April 24, 2013, 10:17 PM
10/22's dont set any standard by any means...I actually own 5 or more ceezees...that are great rifles...what needs to be improves is the THR norm of post instead of belittling and criticizing others...give positive beneficial info...nobody likes to listen to a THR grumpy old/young winer/weiner...sorry need spell check. :neener:

Agsalaska
April 24, 2013, 11:01 PM
Remington 121 The Fieldmaster.

bigdaa
April 25, 2013, 10:47 AM
These are our 10/22's.

I cannot stand the standard 10/22 stock. It's bulky and blocky. The one in the picture with the plain barrel has a standard stock heavily dremeled and sanded/refinished.

If Ruger 10/22's have a cult following, I am not a member. There are certainly others I'd like if I had the yingum.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b207/Bigdaa/Boys_soccerand10-22sAdamsarms017.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/Bigdaa/media/Boys_soccerand10-22sAdamsarms017.jpg.html)


This shows the difference a little work will make in a standard stock:


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b207/Bigdaa/10-22016.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/Bigdaa/media/10-22016.jpg.html)

SwampWolf
April 25, 2013, 04:31 PM
You can think what you want but I don't see any ridiculous claims being made about CZ, Marlin or Remington. I've never seen anyone say there is no other gun worth buying than any of those guns but I've seen lots of people say that about 10/22's.

And that's your reason for never buying one? Because other people love them?


Whatever the case that's my opinion and you won't change it.

Never intended to and couldn't care less. As X-Rap so aptly said, "...to each his own."

FourTeeFive
April 25, 2013, 04:42 PM
CZ's are great bolt-action rimfire rifles; I have a 452 American and a 455 Lux and can't say enough good things about them. Just saw a new 452 Military Trainer for $340 and really had to resist adding it to the collection.

10/22's are great semi-auto rifles. Not much not to like, and they are very easy to customize yourself.

I recommend owning both. Two different things, like a Remington 700 and a Springfield M1A. Why limit yourself to one or the other?

stubbicatt
April 26, 2013, 08:19 AM
There are so many. I have both the 10/22 and the CZ452. Each has its own qualities. It is hard to choose between two of your dear children! I enjoy them both.

However, if I could only have one, or if it were a question of which one to buy first, I would choose the CZ452 first, but I would eventually buy a Ruger.

Right now, however, and more important to me, is: where do I find ammunition for either of them?

Good luck! :)

j1
April 26, 2013, 09:15 AM
I do not feel that a 22 rimfire is enough for coyote. It is a great gun. Pick a different caliber like 223 and you are goodto go.

I6turbo
April 26, 2013, 10:06 AM
CZ's are great bolt-action rimfire rifles; I have a 452 American and a 455 Lux and can't say enough good things about them. Just saw a new 452 Military Trainer for $340 and really had to resist adding it to the collection.
You should go back and grab that Trainer. That's a good price (it'll bring more than that if you decide to sell it -- they've been going for anywhere from $430 to $540 on GB now that they are discontinued and the supply has pretty much dried up), and the Trainer is one of the best-feeling guns CZ offers. Just a little enabling here.... :D

bigdaa
April 26, 2013, 10:09 AM
I do not feel that a 22 rimfire is enough for coyote. It is a great gun. Pick a different caliber like 223 and you are goodto go.
You could womp them with a Subsonic 60 gr Aguila at short ranges. I think that is the very best you could expect in that regard as far as humane kills with an underpowered gun and that is pushing it.

I'd stick with something bigger as you suggest. May as well put em down without a doubt.

j1
April 27, 2013, 09:30 AM
I do not know too much the 223 will not kill humanely at the right range and a good shot.

The Grand Baboon
April 27, 2013, 12:04 PM
At the risk of letting this thread diverge even more, a .223 will kill humanely just fine. It drops Yotes like rocks. It's a great little round.

On the other hand, a 22 LR in the right spot will do job. It's all about shot placement.

Cee Zee
April 27, 2013, 01:30 PM
I don't think I'd want to blast a charging brown bear with a .223. I might shoot one that I had a good side shot on with a .223. But that would be pushing the envelope big time. I like the .223 but it has it's limitations.

BTW I've killed lots of feral dogs with a .22. With the right shot placement they drop right on the spot. I've only had to shoot 2 dogs twice. Some were shot at 50 yards away. I don't think a coyote would be much different.

bulletboy
April 27, 2013, 01:44 PM
Put a $80 green mountain barrel on your 10/22 and give those richboys with their expensive anshiit rifles a run for their money lol.

PlaneJain
April 27, 2013, 02:47 PM
Put a $80 green mountain barrel on your 10/22 and give those richboys with their expensive anshiit rifles a run for their money lol.

Yep, you said it best "LOL" ;)

j1
April 27, 2013, 02:58 PM
You cannot beat the
10 22 for dnamned near anything you whant to do with a 22.

j1
April 27, 2013, 03:01 PM
"whiner."

bigdaa
April 27, 2013, 03:02 PM
Put a $80 green mountain barrel on your 10/22 and give those richboys with their expensive anshiit rifles a run for their money lol.
Those are Green Mountains on two of my 10/22's, but damn if I know where you picked up yours for 80 bucks.

joeponds
May 2, 2013, 05:13 PM
That's just it..put a barrel put a this put a that...B/S buy the cz some of them even out shoot anschutz.

joeponds
May 2, 2013, 05:15 PM
The only thing I like about the 10/22 is the magazine. Sooner of later you have to replace this and that to make it shoot like CZ

doubleh
May 2, 2013, 05:56 PM
I agree with joeponds about the 10/22 magazines. They are excellent pieces of equipment. Too bad the rest of the rifle doesn't match up to the magazine. The 10/22 can be MADE into an excellent rifle. IF you spend enough money they will be the equal of a Savage Mk II or a CZ as purchased. As they come from the factory they aren't too great. I own two 10/22s that have a bunch of changes from original and enjoy them. I wouldn't want one that had to stay original.

As a base for a custom rimfire the 10/22 is an excellent choice.

Just my two cents on the subject and worth every penny. :D

Gaucho Gringo
May 2, 2013, 08:35 PM
As far as I am concerned the best .22 rifles are the old Winchester pump rifles and their clones. The Winchester 1890, 1906, 62 and the Ross & Taurus clones were in production for over 100 years and were all basically the same gun. I have an 1906 with it's second shot out barrel that I don't think anyone would be willing to have me aiming at them out to 100 yards with it. Too bad they don't make them anymore, we are all poorer for it. Just one man's opinion, you asked.
i

hipoint
May 3, 2013, 12:51 AM
haha, can't resist getting in on this...

I own a 10/22 and love it, thought it was the cat's meow till I got a nice marlin .22 mag ;)

Here in my state a .22 mag is legal for hunting with as well as makes a great plinking gun.

Not too much gun for a beginnner, cheap ammo, not too loud either.

I've never owned a cz, would be willing to give one a spin but they just aren't very popular in my area so I haven't had the chance yet.

really though, it seems that now just about any gun is pretty darn good right out of the box, some may be a little better than the rest, but aside from rossi's and the occasional marlin 1894 I've never been disappointed with a modern gun's accuracy.

Cee Zee
May 3, 2013, 01:51 AM
I've never been disappointed with a modern gun's accuracy

I have. My Marlin 925 isn't very accurate at all. It's not horrible by any stretch but I don't get it out of the safe often. With the exact right ammo (not cheap ammo by any means) it shoots pretty well but even then I have other rimfires that are more accurate.

No company makes all good rifles or all bad rifles. We just have to look at the trends and hope for the best.

CB900F
May 3, 2013, 07:23 PM
Hipoint;

So if you're ever cruising the used racks in that non-CZ section of the country, and see an oddball called BRNO, just buy it immediately, PM me, and I'll reimburse you, and pay the shipping!

900F

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