30/30 load sound right?


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poor man
April 8, 2013, 03:02 PM
this is what i found wrote in one of my manuals, anybody see anything wrong with it? only thing id like to change is to go to a 150gr ballistic tip



30-30 Winchester
Bullet 0.308" dia. 122 grain LRNGC, LEE C309-120-R
Powder 11.0 grains Alliant Red Dot
Primer Winchester LR
Firearm Marlin Model 30TK
Barrel Length 18.0 inches
Avg Muzzle Velocity 1804 feet per second

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ArchAngelCD
April 8, 2013, 03:07 PM
Load data for lead bullets and jacketed bullets is completely different and should not be interchanged.

Also, using a bullet not designed for the 30-30 like a Ballistic Tip bullet is usually not recommended. Not only are they dangerous when stacked in the tube they also don't have the proper construction to reliably expand at the lower velocities associated with the 30-30, especially at even further reduced loads when using a shotgun powder like Red Dot.

Bmac1949
April 8, 2013, 03:12 PM
Poor man, where are you getting that load data from? I'd like to check that out. 1800+ fps seems fast for 11 grains of powder. I haven't tried to look that load yet, but at first glance I would expect a much slower bullet. Is this supposed to be a plinking round?

45lcshooter
April 8, 2013, 03:14 PM
Load data is for a cast bullet, not a jacketed one. DO NOT INTERCHANGE load data from CAST TO JACKETED or visa versa. Good way to blow summin up.

poor man
April 8, 2013, 03:18 PM
Archangle the Ballistic tips i have now for the 3030 are rubber tiped so the wont hit the primer in front of them in the tube,

others.....


i googled what i found wrote in the book...... i found an EXACT match online below is the link,,, scroll down to red dot and 3030


thanks.........

http://gunlore.awardspace.info/rifledarms/hercules.htm

ArchAngelCD
April 8, 2013, 03:26 PM
Archangle the Ballistic tips i have now for the 3030 are rubber tiped so the wont hit the primer in front of them in the tube,

others.....


i googled what i found wrote in the book...... i found an EXACT match online below is the link,,, scroll down to red dot and 3030


thanks.........

http://gunlore.awardspace.info/rifledarms/hercules.htm
I didn't know anyone was making a 30-30 tipped bullet other than Hornady with their FTX bullets. Are these Nosler bullets? Are you sure they are designed for use in the 30-30 meaning the jacket is designed to reliably expand at velocities which are lower than other 30 Cal cartridges?

poor man
April 8, 2013, 03:35 PM
I didn't know anyone was making a 30-30 tipped bullet other than Hornady with their FTX bullets. Are these Nosler bullets? Are you sure they are designed for use in the 30-30 meaning the jacket is designed to reliably expand at velocities which are lower than other 30 Cal cartridges?

well to be honnest i just bought the gun and these shells came with it, i did see the bullets you are talking about online, and i thought thats what these were :( below is what they look like

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Ballistic_Tip.JPG/220px-Ballistic_Tip.JPG

rcmodel
April 8, 2013, 03:37 PM
i googled what i found wrote in the book...... i found an EXACT match online below is the link,,, All well & good.
But a 150 grain jacketed bullet is not an 'exact match' for a 122 grain cast lead bullet.

In addition to that, the web link also says this right below the data.
and I personally consider 11.0 grains of Red Dot to be the maximum charge for this cartridge bullet combination in my rifle.

That doesn't mean using a 150 grain jacketed bullet instead of the 122 grain lead bullet listed.

The other problem I see is, Hornady does not make a 150 grain FTX soft rubber tip bullet for the 30-30.

The only FTX 30-30 bullet they make is a 160 grain.

If you are talking some other brand of hard plastic ballistic-tip 150 grain bullet?
They are not safe for use in a tube magazine.

rc

ldlfh7
April 8, 2013, 03:40 PM
Wow those powder amounts seem really low. One 7.62x51 load data shows only 6.5 grains of bullseye... I use 4.2 in my 9mm. Surprised these don't all result in squibs.

ArchAngelCD
April 8, 2013, 03:41 PM
That's exactly what I was getting at. Just because they are tipped doesn't make them safe for the 30-30 or even suitable for single shot use either. I just want you to be safe so keep asking questions...

gamestalker
April 8, 2013, 03:44 PM
Poor man, regardless of the data for Red Dot 122 gr., lead round nose gas check recipe, you can not substitute with a jacketed bullet at all, and Ballistic Tip bullets are a jacketed bullet.

As for it's tip material, it is not a rubber tip, and it is not an acceptable design for a tubular magazine fed weapon.

And you also can not use data intended for a 122 gr. bullet, with a 150 gr. bullet, jacketed or other wise.

If you want to load those Ballistic Tips for use in a 30-30 lever action, you need to use jacketed data, which will not include Red Dot as a powder choice. And you can't not put more than one round in the magazine at a time. One in the chamber, one in the magazine, and a round nose behind the Ballistic Tip would work though.
GS

poor man
April 8, 2013, 04:37 PM
thanks for the help, as always i jumped the gun and posted that load WITHOUT looking it over good, its an old manual i have and i dont know who or when i was wrote in there but it looks like they got the info from the site i posted above, but they wrote it in my manual under jacketed loads :( THAT is why i come here to ask questions :) i dont know what bullets i posted the picture of are, they were just handed to me when i bought the gun, the "tips" do flex some when pushed on with your thumbnail but i dont know the brand of bullet they could be reloads for all i know... the head stamp says "frontier 3030 win"

thanks

rcmodel
April 8, 2013, 04:51 PM
Here is what the 160 grain FTX 30-30 bullet looks like.

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-Cal-.308-160-gr-FTX-for-30-30-Win/

rc

nix4me
April 8, 2013, 08:24 PM
I use Hornady 170gr Interlock FP bullet in my 30/30:

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-Cal-.308-170-gr-FP/

I use it with 24 grains of Alliant Reloader 7

wetpowder
April 9, 2013, 12:16 AM
Read the manuals then read them again. Could be the death of you if too much pressure

rcmodel
April 9, 2013, 12:32 AM
Could be the death of you if too much pressure Oh, not really that at all!
Gun blow-ups seldom of ever kill anyone.

They just blind / or maim you by blowing out an eye or blowing off a few fingers.
That's why you have so many fingers & eyes to start with.

So you have one or more to spare when you play with reloading without really understanding how to do it.

It's all good in the end!
As long as you still have one thumb, and a trigger finger, and one eye left over that works!

See, it's perfectly safe to ignore or not understand reloading data!
You will still be alive and able to enjoy your new hobby after the accident.

Because of multiple limbs & organs.

rc

Ike Arumba
April 9, 2013, 10:16 PM
I have used the Hornady 140gr Monoflex, seen at http://www.hornady.com/store/30-Cal-.308-140-gr-monoflex/. Like the bullet referenced by rcmodel, it has a short ogive and a short plastic tip. Just for grins, I tried loading a 150gr plastic-tipped blem from Midway, that wasn't .30-30 specific, which looked more like the one you showed. It worked fine inserting directly into the chamber. I had thought maybe to try one in the chamber and one in the magazine, but that didn't work. The nose was too long for the space available, and it couldn't be elevated to reach the chamber. I had to take it back out the loading port. If I had set the bullet deep enough to clear the elevator mechanism, it would have looked like an SR-71 spiked air intake.

CGT80
April 10, 2013, 05:07 AM
In 30-06, a 150 grain jacketed bullet over 13.0 grains of red dot will yield 14xx fps. This is called "the load". It works with many bullets in 30-06 or similar 30 cal rifles. It is a great low power load. I have fired a number of those 150's like that.

You can't go as low on powder charge with jacketed as you can lead. Do some more research.

I don't know what the proper charge would be for 30-30 with jacketed bullets and red dot. For a 159 plain base cast round nose bullet in the 30-30, I use 6.0 grains of red dot and get 1016 fps. I have not run more powder than this as this load is great for short range plinking. I also haven't run any low power jacketed bullet loads in the 30-30.

The Castboolits web site may have more data. That is one of the main places I researched and posted when working with a light 30-30 load.

I think I recall full power loads with 4895 reaching the low 2,000 fps range. IMR 4895 works well for reduced loads. They have info on it on their web page. I think I tried 60% of a max 30-06 load which required 4895. It was quite a bit softer than a full power load, but still felt like a rifle and sounded like a rifle. The red dot loads sound more like a hand gun and feel like a 223 rather than a 30 cal rifle.

What is your use for this load, OP?

Steve C
April 10, 2013, 08:31 AM
The Lyman data I have lists a maximum load of 9.0 grs of Red Dot behind a cast 151gr #311440 bullet at 38,100 CUP. 10.0gr is the max for a 115gr lead bullet. The old industry standard using CUP for the 30-30 Win was 38,000 CUP. The load you have written in your book is well beyond normal pressure for the 30-30 Win if used in '94 lever action rifle though a bolt gun or the stronger Marlin may hold up to the higher pressure only if using it exactly with the listed lead bullet, but why risk it?

Red Dot is a very fast shotgun powder, normally listed as slightly faster than Bullseye pistol powder. A little bit will get your pressures up to max and a little bit more can take your gun apart as pressures spike quickly.

"The Load" using 13.0grs of Red Dot as advocated by Ed Hariris in center fire rifles was to be used as follows and is NOT appropriate in the 30-30 Win.

1. The case must be LARGER than the .300 Savage or .35 Remington.

2. The rifle must be of MODERN (post 1898) design, suitable for smokeless
powder, with a bore size of .30 cal. or larger.

3. The bullet weight must be within the NORMAL range for the given cartridge.

From : Ed Harris 12 Mar 94

Salmoneye
April 10, 2013, 09:53 AM
Here's a link to the entire C. E. Harris article, "The Load":

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html

And here is reduced velocity data for many lever action available calibers:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Sadly, there is only one bullet weight for .30-30...

poor man
April 10, 2013, 11:05 AM
Thanks again for most of the help here,

Clark
April 10, 2013, 10:38 PM
A Marlin Model 30TK is to me another Marlin 336.
I have one here, I don't think I have test fired it.
It looks weak.

42 kpsi SAAMI registered max average.
1.3 to 1.4 times that for proof loads.
That is 54.6 to 58.8 psi proof loads.
The inside of the case is .325 -> .083 sq in
58 k psi x .083 sq in = 4,800 pounds.
That bolt looks like ~~ .12 sq in -> 40 ksi tension on the steel. That's ok.
I don't know why I should be so afraid to shoot that thing.

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