First time suppressor purchase questions.


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Hatter
April 9, 2013, 04:54 PM
My questions are: My plan is to buy the "Gemtech HVT-THD" 7.62 or less caliber, should I get this suppressor? We shoot 5.56 Ars and 762 bolt guns and .22lr and soon 300blackout. Will it do any job of suppressing 556? Will it suppress 22lr at all? I plan on submitting my tax form in a week or so, since we will be getting our return soon so we can afford this. What are the waiting expectations for a suppressors, is it similar to an sbr? Any help or advise would be helpful thinks.
I do apologies for improper sentence structure I'm on a phone.

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MasterSergeantA
April 9, 2013, 05:06 PM
It should work for all of those, but some manufacturers will not warranty a suppressor for use with .22LR unless specifically built for that calibre because of lead build up. Realize that anything smaller than the maximum caliber (in this case 7.62mm) will allow a certain amount of 'blow-by' noise. Plan on a six month wait from time of Form 4 submission.

zoom6zoom
April 9, 2013, 08:59 PM
also compare the weight and size of a .22 can. One I handled yesterday looked and felt like a cigar tube. Personally I dont want a one pound plus 556 can hanging on my 22. And stamp cost aside, 22 cans are priced pretty reasonably.

MasterSergeantA
April 10, 2013, 01:09 AM
zoom makes a very good point. Some .22LR cans cost less than the stamp. Maybe not a cost effective purchase, but I would spend the extra $$ and have the two of them. If you shoot primarily cheap (a relative term these days) lead .22LR ammunition, it deposits lead on the interior of the can. With .22 cans that can be disassembled, cleaning them is not much of a chore. But most centerfire cans do NOT come apart easily and a build-up of lead could cause a baffle strike with a jacketed full calibre round...an expensive proposition to get a little more use out of a more expensive suppressor.

Captains1911
April 10, 2013, 09:08 AM
I agree, you really should get 2 suppressors, a .30 centerfire rifle can to shoot 7.62, 5.56, 300BLK, etc, and a dedicated .22 rimfire can. Besides the lead buildup, it just isn't practical using a centerfire rifle can on most .22s due to the weight and size.

TIMC
April 10, 2013, 09:33 AM
I am no expert by far but don't think you will be happy with the results of using a .30 cal can on .22 cal guns. I ended up deciding on 3 different cans for .30, 5.56 and .22 rimfire. The main reasons from my research were, 5.56 is not going to suppress enough to make me happy with the .30 can and rimfire ammo tends to lead up your can and most centerfire cans do not come apart for cleaning like rimfire cans.
I went with the Thunderbeast 30 P1 for .30 cal, Liberty Torch QA for 5.56, and the Silencerco Specter II for my rimfire can. Yes it is a lot more cost but from what I researched it is a much better way to go and when you are spending that much time, effort and money you should go with something you will be happy with.

JustinJ
April 10, 2013, 10:54 AM
Unless your shooting will be limited to a bench i would highly recomend going with something lighter. My LGS had the 5.56 steel YH Phantom on sale for a really good price so i did sort of an impulse buy which i later regretted due to the weight. Due to the position they attach to a gun every ounce counts. It's not as bad with a SBR and my YH feels fine on my AUG but on a 16" or 20" AR it feels like there is a brick attached to the muzzle. Since all cans come with an automatic $200 plus price tag my advice is to buy the right can the first time. Also, if you are going to use on different guns i would consider a quick disconnect model however generally QD cans and mounts are heavier.

.22 should only be used in user serviceable cans so that the deposited lead can be removed.

Hatter
April 10, 2013, 08:36 PM
Unless your shooting will be limited to a bench i would highly recomend going with something lighter. My LGS had the 5.56 steel YH Phantom on sale for a really good price so i did sort of an impulse buy which i later regretted due to the weight. Due to the position they attach to a gun every ounce counts. It's not as bad with a SBR and my YH feels fine on my AUG but on a 16" or 20" AR it feels like there is a brick attached to the muzzle. Since all cans come with an automatic $200 plus price tag my advice is to buy the right can the first time. Also, if you are going to use on different guns i would consider a quick disconnect model however generally QD cans and mounts are heavier.

.22 should only be used in user serviceable cans so that the deposited lead can be removed.
Who makes a good .22 dedicated can? Who makes a serviceable 556? Is that yh phantom 5.56 or 7.62?

Mike Sr.
April 10, 2013, 09:00 PM
Do not make the mistake I did with the a .22 Suppressor! I bought one dedicated just for 22lr. I should have bought a better model capable of handling not only the 22lr but for .22mag as well....

I have a Sandstorm, 30 cal Can and it is rated upto 300 WinMag.

I will not hesitate to use the Sandstorm on my Sig 556 as soon as I get it?????????

There are pro's and con's for the 'sealed' can vs the USER 'cleanable' can.
Shooters have recorded that they have to clean their Can after a few hundred rounds or they'll find it difficult to take apart and clean it...The means to me almost as much down time cleaning vs shooting time.....me I'd rather spend more time shooting..

Sealed Cans after thousands of rounds prolly send back to the maker for cleaning or there are ways to clean the can at home withOUT taking it apart.

I WILL get another Can but one for 22 mag and 22 Lr....it will be a Sealed can. SnipersHide has a complete section dedicated to Suppressors and THOSE guys eat, sleep and drink Suppressors: it'll take you a long time get thru all the info posted there....hopefully it will be a labor of love for you as it was for me....

Captains1911
April 11, 2013, 09:51 AM
There are pro's and con's for the 'sealed' can vs the USER 'cleanable' can.
Shooters have recorded that they have to clean their Can after a few hundred rounds or they'll find it difficult to take apart and clean it...The means to me almost as much down time cleaning vs shooting time.....me I'd rather spend more time shooting..

Sealed Cans after thousands of rounds prolly send back to the maker for cleaning or there are ways to clean the can at home withOUT taking it apart.



That's why you buy the Silencerco Sparrow ;) With the options available today, I see no advantage to a sealed rimfire can.

JustinJ
April 11, 2013, 09:57 AM
Who makes a good .22 dedicated can? Who makes a serviceable 556? Is that yh phantom 5.56 or 7.62?

I don't own a .22 can and haven't done any research in them but there are numerous models out there. Google "silencer review" or "22 silencer review" and you should have no trouble finding plenty of info.

I can't think of any user serviceable rifle cartridge cans off the top of my head although i know there are some. Since rifle rounds are generally copper plated lead deposit is not really an issue and a can must generally be longer and heavier to be serviceable.

My YH is a 5.56. It's a good can; i just regret not going with the titanium version due to weight. I could have gone with the .308 in Titanium and it would have been much lighter than my steel 5.56.

There are pro's and con's for the 'sealed' can vs the USER 'cleanable' can.
Shooters have recorded that they have to clean their Can after a few hundred rounds or they'll find it difficult to take apart and clean it...The means to me almost as much down time cleaning vs shooting time.....me I'd rather spend more time shooting..

That was a major consideration for me recently in the selection of a .45 can. One reason i went with the Osprey over the TiRant is that very issue although I'm told the cleaning interval for that can should be under 1K.

Captains1911
April 11, 2013, 11:10 AM
Who makes a good .22 dedicated can?

Look hard at the Silencerco Sparrow and SWR Spectre II. I have a Sparrow and love it. I also have a Gemtech Outback IID that I would not recommend.

Hatter
April 11, 2013, 12:06 PM
Has any one tried to clean a sealed suppresor by submerging it in solvent, then washing it out and drying it out? Or would this make the can rust, and not function properly?

Mike Sr.
April 11, 2013, 12:33 PM
my next can will all titanium, the model name don't recall but the model numbers are SL-1......??????? Rated at least for .22mag.

And it is a sealed Can that can be cleaned w/o taking it apart, by not using anything w/citric acids and using an air gun to blow it out. The can can also be used 'wet'.....


My research leads me to think this can will be useable for few thousand [10 to 15 ] rounds before a major cleaning effort is considered!!! Try shooting a few thousand rounds thru a owner-cleanable Can AND then try taking it apart..... :0).

now i have a gemtec outback 2*****, non-cleanable. I AM NOT disappointed.
Gemtec wanted an arm,leg, and one nut to convert it to a owner-cleanable Can, which did not ENDEAR/INDEAR me to spend the bucks, but made me turn else where for another Suppressor.

****
For my 'sealed' OutBAck 2....was informed by GemT that at about 10,000 round's or there about before sending it back...ONE TIME for a few days... compare that down time with the down time by having to clean the cleanable Can every few hundred rounds!

Gato MontÚs
April 11, 2013, 02:41 PM
^^^
Wait now, are you saying that having to clean my can every thousand rounds or so is a greater inconvenience than having to send a can back to the factory for DAYS to be cleaned after a few thousand??? I'm not arguin with ya, just don't seem to follow your logic...

Yeah, why not throw my can in for consideration, go with the Sparrow as your dedicated .22 silencer.

45bthompson
April 11, 2013, 02:52 PM
I got a c3 defense sealed .22lr can. I actually won it as a door prize! I didn't expect much cause it was free but it is really awesome. People say to only buy serviceable .22 cans and I generaly agree with that but mine is all steel so I can "dip" it. Plus its rated for .22 mag and even 5.7! It has a lifetime warranty and is also full auto rated. I wont testify on how it compares sound wise as I don't have another to compare it to but I can tell you I would be able to shoot it in town without bothering my neighbors. Not that I would ever do that.

Captains1911
April 11, 2013, 04:21 PM
Has any one tried to clean a sealed suppresor by submerging it in solvent, then washing it out and drying it out? Or would this make the can rust, and not function properly?
The problem is the lead build up is very hard to remove without brushing, scraping, chipping, etc. It's virtually impossible to reach all the areas and crevices inside a sealed can. The only chemical that really works without any mechanical action is called "the dip", which is a 50/50 mix of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide, however it is extremely toxic because once it dissolves the lead it creates lead acetate, a solution that must be handled with extreme care and disposed of at a hazmat disposal facility. The dip cannot be used with aluminum parts as it will dissolve it, so it can only be used with stainless steel and titanium.

If you go with a sealed can, you're probably better of just letting it fill up and then send back to the manufacturer for a rebuild when it becomes too heavy and/or ineffective (that's what we did before user-serviceable cans became popular). But like I said earlier, I see no reason not to get a user-serviceable can today.

Charger442
April 11, 2013, 05:34 PM
I got a c3 defense sealed .22lr can. I actually won it as a door prize! I didn't expect much cause it was free but it is really awesome. People say to only buy serviceable .22 cans and I generaly agree with that but mine is all steel so I can "dip" it. Plus its rated for .22 mag and even 5.7! It has a lifetime warranty and is also full auto rated. I wont testify on how it compares sound wise as I don't have another to compare it to but I can tell you I would be able to shoot it in town without bothering my neighbors. Not that I would ever do that.

i have a TBAC 22L-1 coming and its a sealed can. I think thats the one that Mike SR. is trying to remember. not servicable, but it can be dipped and cleaned just fine.

my next 22 can will be a SWR Spectre II. Just to see how it goes with a take-apart.


As far as user servicable 556, i think Huntertown makes the Kestrel 556 that is servicable. but in centerfire rifle, i dont think it matters.

45bthompson
April 11, 2013, 05:53 PM
Mine is made by c3 defense. It's called the Clandestine. Its marketed as a cheap, rather heavy, robust entry level can. Its about 1" dia and about 6" long so its not the smallest of .22 cans either.

Hatter
April 11, 2013, 09:29 PM
I have made my decision on what I am going to purchase. I just have one more question. I can't find anywhere if you pay up front for the suppressor, or do you pay some on it or what's the deal?

Charger442
April 11, 2013, 09:54 PM
Most dealers will want full payment upfront, before filing the Form 4.

TIMC
April 11, 2013, 10:04 PM
I have made my decision on what I am going to purchase. I just have one more question. I can't find anywhere if you pay up front for the suppressor, or do you pay some on it or what's the deal?

Most want full payment up front since they have to save that can for you since the S/N will be used on your forms.

So.....Whatcha decide on? Don't leave us hanging man!

Captains1911
April 11, 2013, 10:10 PM
I have made my decision on what I am going to purchase. I just have one more question. I can't find anywhere if you pay up front for the suppressor, or do you pay some on it or what's the deal?
You typically pay your dealer for the suppressor in full. You also provide the dealer with a $200 check for uncle sam in which he includes with your Form 4 package. Expect the ATF to cash the check within a few days of receipt. Then sit back and wait, current Form 4 approvals are running an average of 6 months.

So what did you decide on?

Hatter
April 11, 2013, 10:40 PM
Most want full payment up front since they have to save that can for you since the S/N will be used on your forms.

So.....Whatcha decide on? Don't leave us hanging man!
I am going with the "Gemtech HVT-THD" and the BLACKSIDE 40/45! I was going to get one, but I knew I wanted one for my 1911 and well... just could not stand the thought of waiting six months then another six months. I know I will be happy with them! Ah who am I kidding I am screwed, I will never hear the end of this one...

Captains1911
April 12, 2013, 08:45 AM
Interesting choices... Good luck, and hopefully you researched in other places too before deciding.

JustinJ
April 12, 2013, 11:34 AM
I am going with the "Gemtech HVT-THD" and the BLACKSIDE 40/45! I was going to get one, but I knew I wanted one for my 1911 and well... just could not stand the thought of waiting six months then another six months. I know I will be happy with them! Ah who am I kidding I am screwed, I will never hear the end of this one...

Is there a spacer available for the Blackside to be used on fixed barrels? One option might be to get a user serviceable .45 can for which there is a spacer and 1/2-28 piston available to use with your .22. The TiRant could be set up this way.

Hatter
April 12, 2013, 12:14 PM
Can you use the TiRant on a sub caliber carbine as well?

TIMC
April 12, 2013, 12:35 PM
Interesting choices give us a report when you get them.

Hatter
April 12, 2013, 05:14 PM
Interesting choices give us a report when you get them.
Will do if i ever get them, apparently I could have up to a 12 month wait, so much for the family Halloween shoot...

weblance
April 12, 2013, 08:00 PM
Will do if i ever get them, apparently I could have up to a 12 month wait, so much for the family Halloween shoot...

My recent wait was 178 days. Its pretty much 6 months, as people have said.

Captains1911
April 12, 2013, 08:08 PM
Why 12 months? I feel like the OP is not on the same wavelength as most of us here...

Gato MontÚs
April 13, 2013, 08:55 AM
Was that 178 days from mailing off the paperwork or 178 days from going pending? Over a month difference between the two for me so it'd make a big difference in total time.

weblance
April 13, 2013, 09:45 AM
It was 178 days from when my papers were delivered to the ATF in Atlanta, to when the papers arrived back at my LGS.

Gato MontÚs
April 13, 2013, 11:49 AM
Well that's certainly pleasant news to hear. My forms where mailed Oct 10th but I didn't go pending until Nov 27th.

Although the way my first transfer is going I am prepared to wait another few months, cause that's the luck I have apparently. Only 18 more days until my first year anniversary since I paid for the damn can!

hentown
April 13, 2013, 09:51 PM
I didn't supply my dealer with a $200 check. I supplied BATFE with a $200 check when I mailed the Form 4 directly to the BATFE address that's printed on the form.

mo_dingo
April 17, 2013, 09:28 PM
I expected the wait time to be much worse, glad it's still 6 months. I had heard it was up to 8.

Hatter
April 18, 2013, 02:21 PM
My local class three dealer screwed me over... It's a hour and a half drive there (I live in the middle of nowhere) and he carries gemtech products he was supposed to have those two suppressors ( according to the website ). And he only has the .22 in stock and aac and made me out to be an idiot because those were my choices and now they claim they don't even carry those suppressors anymore and blatantly lied to me and claims they can't order it. I know for a fact they can order it. I need a place to order at least on of these. I don't want to give my location or I would tell you not to deal with these people as they are rude, annoying, pompous dill weeds. I know am out gas and miles on an a car and have a women mad at me about money I never even spent. Does any one know of a class three dealer in the eastern/southeaster US that is not a liar and a prick?

Excuse the the bad grammar, and punctuation I am in a hurry and have to go.

TIMC
April 19, 2013, 12:29 AM
I use these guys, they have been pretty good for the most part. http://www.silencershop.com/ They got my paperwork in odrer for me an mailed off everything promptly. The only disapointment was when I called to get them to order me a second QA attacment for my Liberty Torch suppressor. I was told on the phone it would be hard to get right now and they didn't know when they would be available. I called the good people at Liberty suppressors an they sent me one out the next day. So much for hard to get, I think he just didn't want to mess with it which has lowered my opinion of their customer service. I would think I would get better assistance since I bought 4 suppressors from them.

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