What is swaging.


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thub
April 10, 2013, 04:21 PM
I am curious about swaging, what is it and how is it done. I would like to know. Thanks very much

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Magnum Shooter
April 10, 2013, 04:29 PM
Essentially it is smashing a piece of lead under high pressure into a bullet shape.

http://www.corbins.com/

Arkansas Paul
April 10, 2013, 04:30 PM
Sounds a lot harder than pouring it into the mold.
What are the advantages of it? I'm curious as well.

geist262
April 10, 2013, 04:34 PM
Swaging is for taking crimps out of the primer pocket in military brass. Basically the tool bends the primer picket of the brass into a reloadable spec. Therefore, the primer can be seated without crushing them. Multiple styles of tools are made to do this. RCBS manufactures both a bench top and press mounted swaging tools. Dillion also makes the super swage. I believe that RCBS somewhat copied Dillion's design. You can also cut out the crimp instead of swaging.

I may have misunderstood the OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CLP
April 10, 2013, 04:43 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaging#Firearms_and_ammunition

The term swaging is also used when removing military crimps in primer pockets as the poster above mentioned. The alternative is to ream the primer pocket of the crimp by a tool that shaves it off.

Magnum Shooter
April 10, 2013, 04:44 PM
I think the OP was talking about bullet swaging, but primer pocket swaging is similar as pressure is used to reform the primer pocket.
READ my link for a better understanding.
http://www.corbins.com/

ReloaderFred
April 10, 2013, 04:45 PM
It depends on whether you're asking about swaging bullets, or swaging primer pockets. The above post describes primer pocket swaging, but bullet swaging is a little more complicated.

I swage bullets in .357", .400", .410", .429" and .452" diameters for handgun loading. Bullet swaging takes different dies, which can be expensive, and strong presses, again which can be expensive.

I'll see if I can find the thread we did a couple months ago on this subject for you.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ReloaderFred
April 10, 2013, 04:51 PM
This thread covers some information about bullet swaging: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=703058&highlight=Bullet+Swaging

This link to Richard Corbin's site also has some good information: http://www.rceco.com/

Bullet swaging isn't fast like cartridge reloading is. It takes a lot of time and energy to swage good bullets, but being able to do it is pretty satisfying, and makes you more self sufficient.

Hope this helps.

Fred

rcmodel
April 10, 2013, 08:45 PM
Wackypeedia has this to say about swaging.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaging

Basically in plain English, it is cold forming metal or other material into shapes it wasn't in before.

Or moving cold material into a different shape without heating it first.

rc

kingmt
April 10, 2013, 10:16 PM
Bet me to it RC.

bigdogpete
April 10, 2013, 10:37 PM
So, thub, which is it?

webcruzzer
April 10, 2013, 10:57 PM
Thanks for the info.

SSN Vet
April 11, 2013, 10:52 AM
swaging is proving that given sufficient pressure, you can indeed put a square peg into a round hole.... the peg will, however, be round when it comes out the other end. :^)

Offfhand
April 11, 2013, 04:45 PM
Here is a bit more information about bullet swaging: The attached photo shows a set of custom made bullet swaging dies with some bullet jackets before forming, and finished bullets after core seating and swaging. The five shot group, fired at 100 yards with a varmint class rifle measures .056" and was shot at the International Benchrest Championships using hand swaged bullets. Commercially made popular brand jacketed bullets are mass produced by swaging but It takes extremely fine bullets to shoot groups like this and I do not know of any serious short range (100-200-300 yds) bench competitor that does not use bullets either hand swaged by himself or by someone who hand swages bullets to sell. Swaging dies like these shown here are quite expensive and require considerable knowhow and experience to use successfully.

rsrocket1
April 11, 2013, 05:33 PM
Companies like Hornady make swaged lead bullets (http://www.hornady.com/store/searchammo.php?mode=search&main_cat=250&categoryid%5B%5D=260&categoryid%5B%5D=&categoryid%5B%5D=415&x=22&y=9). They use dead soft lead (or nearly that) and put it through a machine that mass produces the bullets without having to melt the lead, cool it down or deal with molds. Individuals can also use tools to swage lead into spent .22lr cases to make .223 bullets.

Magnum Shooter
April 11, 2013, 09:41 PM
Almost all commercially produced jacketed bullets are swaged. Including companies like Speer, Remington, Winchester, Hornady, Nosler and so on and so on.

DM~
April 12, 2013, 07:15 PM
Swageing is a lot of work with expensive gear...

I've been bullet swageing since the 70's....

DM

rsrocket1
April 12, 2013, 08:05 PM
Swageing is a lot of work with expensive gear...
I've been bullet swageing since the 70's....
DM

So why do you do it DM?
Is it because it's paid for itself in 40 years?
Is it because you do it for odd calibers?
Or do you simply love "lot's of work with expensive gear" (probably the best answer)

Thanks.

ReloaderFred
April 12, 2013, 08:54 PM
Why do people collect stamps, or butterflies, or old cars?

I swage because I can, and because I like producing something special. When everyone is complaining about not being able to buy jacketed bullets for their handguns, I can make mine. When they complain because they can't find cast bullets at reasonable prices, I can cast mine. We do it because we can.

Hope this helps.

Fred

DM~
April 13, 2013, 07:11 PM
So why do you do it DM?
Is it because it's paid for itself in 40 years?
Is it because you do it for odd calibers?
Or do you simply love "lot's of work with expensive gear" (probably the best answer)

Thanks.

First of all, the gear wasn't so expensive when i got into it, and Ted Smith (swage equipment mfg., the man who put the Corbon bros. in business) was a personal friend of mine, and that made it even easier to get the equipment i wanted.

Secondly, i designed some bullets and sold many thousands of them, recouping much of my investment.

Thirdly, i swage spl. bullets i designed for some of my custom guns, that you just can't buy any place.... Like this .257" "Keith" style bullet for my S&W "K" frame recolver, chambered in 25/20 WCF,

http://fototime.com/4BBBD6653183676/standard.jpg

I can take a spent shotgun primer apart, and use it for the jacket to make light 25cal. bullets...

AND there's many more things i do with my swage dies too.

DM

splattergun
April 13, 2013, 07:47 PM
swaging is proving that given sufficient pressure, you can indeed put a square peg into a round hole.... the peg will, however, be round when it comes out the other end. :^)
My Gramps told me that to get a square peg into a round hole, ya gotta use a sharp blade. And maybe a big hammer.

Offfhand
April 14, 2013, 11:40 AM
Another BIG reason to use hand swaged bullets is that you can't win in short range benchrest competition without them. As stated in earlier post on this thread, I do not know of any serious short range bench competitor who does not use hand swaged bullets. There are some popular brand varmint and even target type bullets that are plenty accurate for the purpose they were intended but still don't compare with the best hand swaged bullets benchrest grade bullets. The one promising exception are Burger's 6mm BR Column bullets introduced last year. Weighing 64.2 grains, they were designed and made specially for short range benchrest and so far reports have been good. I have a few hundred sent for testing but haven't yet seriously worked with them so have no opinion. As with all bullets, the rubber will hit the road when and if they are used in big time bench tournaments like the SuperShoot. And win.

DM~
April 15, 2013, 09:59 AM
Another BIG reason to use hand swaged bullets is that you can't win in short range benchrest competition without them. As stated in earlier post on this thread, I do not know of any serious short range bench competitor who does not use hand swaged bullets. There are some popular brand varmint and even target type bullets that are plenty accurate for the purpose they were intended but still don't compare with the best hand swaged bullets benchrest grade bullets. The one promising exception are Burger's 6mm BR Column bullets introduced last year. Weighing 64.2 grains, they were designed and made specially for short range benchrest and so far reports have been good. I have a few hundred sent for testing but haven't yet seriously worked with them so have no opinion. As with all bullets, the rubber will hit the road when and if they are used in big time bench tournaments like the SuperShoot. And win.

I just want to add to your post, that BR quality bullets aren't coming from swage dies like Corbins... The BR quality dies are made to a much higher standard to give top BR quality bullets and cost even MORE because of it.

DM

Offfhand
April 15, 2013, 04:39 PM
Mr, DM, in his above post, is certainly correct about who can, and cannot, make swaging dies sufficiently precise to form benchrest quality bullets. In fact, swaging dies capable of making benchrest quality bullets have been made by such a scant few uber-craftsmen that you can count them on one hand. The dies shown in my original post were made by Simonson, with the other great names in die making being Detsch, Niemi and Rorschach. Of this small group I understand that Niemi is the only one currently active, so even used dies by the others are much sought after by serious bench shooters and accuracy specialists. Legendary die makers of the 1950's were Biehler & Astles. Now considered valuable collectors' items, B&A dies demonstrated the superiority of hand swaged bullets. A new set of top end swaging dies now costs upwards of three grand (The last time I bought a set) but even so there is always a waiting list. Which is why a good used set of dies by any of the above named makers will sell for very nearly as much as a new set. And even more if the dies have a reputation for producing winning bullets. I know an owner of one such set of exceptional dies who has repeatedly refused offers of $10,000, but he isn't about to part with them for any amount of money. Such attitudes are not the least bit unusual in the rarified atmosphere of tournament level benchrest competition, which is definitely not a poor man's game.

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