S.649 Live Debate Thread - CSPAN2


PDA






Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 09:20 AM
Senate debate on the motion to proceed with S.649 has begun. Senator Mike Lee has made a brief opening statement pointing out that nobody has seen text of key components of the legislation and that nobody has any idea what amendments will even be debated and that under those circumstances, it makes perfect sense to delay the motion to proceed until those conditions can be met.

After his remarks, CSPAN is rerunning the Toomey-Manchin conference from yesterday :barf:

Vote on motion to proceed scheduled for 11am Eastern.

Reid up. Time between parties to be divided equally and controlled by leaders. Asks the Senate to forego the 30 hour delay after motion vote so they can begin debate of the bill immediately. Says the first bill to be offered will be the Toomey-Manchin Amendment (that not even other Senators have seen yet - big surprise).

Reid says bill will be open to all related amendments. McConnell up now explaining why he opposes the motion to proceed.

If you enjoyed reading about "S.649 Live Debate Thread - CSPAN2" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Fryerpower
April 11, 2013, 09:44 AM
Just tried to call my Senators. The lines are busy! :) I'll keep trying...

Jim

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 09:55 AM
Blumenthal supports Toomey-Manchin. Promises to spearhead magazine ban and AWB amendments.

Sen. Murphy talking about dead children to advance various bans.

Blumenthal now claiming gun lobby is trying to create a registry of all the mentally ill people in the United States?

tarosean
April 11, 2013, 09:58 AM
Doesnt this idiot know he reloaded multiple times often dropping full and partially full magazines???

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 10:21 AM
Mike Lee up. Reading pro-Second Amendment votes by citizens and arguing that the Second Amendment is a core constitutional right that should be subject to 60 votes. Says not a single Senator has yet seen Toomey-Manchin bill.

Leahy up arguing against filibuster of motion to proceed. Babbling like an idiot. Claims that the Second Amendment is secure so no need to be afraid of AWB, magazine bans, government registries, etc. Government is your pal.

tyeo098
April 11, 2013, 10:41 AM
Stand up and be counted!

breakingcontact
April 11, 2013, 10:41 AM
Tarosean, the facts really do not matter to them. Its about exploiting emotions and gaining control.

tyeo098
April 11, 2013, 10:44 AM
Cornyn up, talking about mental health

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 10:48 AM
Cornyn hitting on no prosecutions for background check violations. Supports filibuster and gives same reasons as Mike Lee.

Pause. Vote for cloture in 5 minutes.

tyeo098
April 11, 2013, 11:04 AM
Vote in progress

Fryerpower
April 11, 2013, 11:10 AM
I finally got through on the phone. Hopefully all of this background noise is getting through to them.

Sure wish I could hear each Senator's vote instead of just the guy calling roll.

Jim

dbb1776
April 11, 2013, 11:10 AM
I love being in Texas. But all the other Yahoo Senatepedes and Congresscritters from the other states boggle my mind.
Write and rewrite 'em.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 11:14 AM
The vote will go up in the Congressional Record in about 30 minutes. So we will know the specific Senators then.

Fryerpower
April 11, 2013, 11:16 AM
Un-Freakin-Believable! Corker, R-Tennessee voted Yes! Oh, I am pissed now.

Well, his intern just got a polite earful from me. I can't believe I voted for this guy.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 11:17 AM
Motion passed. Filibuster is broken on motion to proceed. Still one more chance to filibuster.

tyeo098
April 11, 2013, 11:18 AM
Motion passed. Filibuster is broken on motion to proceed. Still one more chance to filibuster.
Theyre still voting? o.O

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 11:21 AM
Now we are waiting on the end of the vote and to find out what he schedule will be. Hopefully they make Reid wait 30 hours before starting debate so we may have a chance to see the Toomey-Manchin Amendment (first amendment up according to Reid).

Fryerpower
April 11, 2013, 11:35 AM
68 to 31, yea.

tyeo098
April 11, 2013, 11:36 AM
Sure they can come together on this.

HOW ABOUT THAT BUDGET!?

tyeo098
April 11, 2013, 11:38 AM
AWB Amendment
Mag Cap Amendment.

Oh joy.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 11:39 AM
Reid pushing to take up debate immediately after lunch rather than wait the usual 30 hours.

Amendment schedule:

Toomey-Manchin
AWB
Magazine ban

After this they will allow the Republicans to catch up and the alternate D/R amendments.

Recess until 2:30 eastern

Doc7
April 11, 2013, 11:47 AM
After these votes, what other procedures, debates, votes are required for this to become active law?

Bubbles
April 11, 2013, 11:51 AM
After these votes, what other procedures, debates, votes are required for this to become active law?
Whatever the Senate finally passes has to go to the House to be voted on, amended, etc. Then it goes to reconciliation if different bills passed the House and Senate, then both houses vote again on the final bill (no amendments permitted at this point), and the President signs the bill into law.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 11:55 AM
This was just a vote on whether or not to begin discussing gun control legislation. Now that it was a "Yes" vote, they will recess until 2:30pm eastern. When they return, they will take up the Toomey-Manchin Amendment first (even though nobody has seen the text yet :confused:), then the AWB, then magazine bans. After that, they will allow the Republicans to offer amendments until they "catch up" and then they will alternate D/R amendments.

Open amendment process. Senators will vote on each amendment. If it gets 51 votes, it becomes part of S.649. If it doesn't, it dies for now. Senators Reid and Lee both said this could take weeks to get to a final vote. Right before the final vote, we will have another chance to filibuster. If it passes the Senate, then it goes to the House and everything starts again there (except no filibuster in the House).

salvador31c
April 11, 2013, 12:01 PM
Excuse my ignorance but how & why was it decided that there would not be a 30 hour wait to give the senators a chance to view the text of the Toomey-Manchin Amendment?

Ohio Gun Guy
April 11, 2013, 12:04 PM
`(t)(1) Beginning on the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment of the Fix Gun Checks Act of 2013, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not licensed under this chapter to transfer a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, unless a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer has first taken possession of the firearm for the purpose of complying with subsection (s). Upon taking possession of the firearm, the licensee shall comply with all requirements of this chapter as if the licensee were transferring the firearm from the licensee's inventory to the unlicensed transferee.
`(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--
`(A) bona fide gifts between spouses, between parents and their children, between siblings, or between grandparents and their grandchildren;
`(B) a transfer made from a decedent's estate, pursuant to a legal will or the operation of law;
`(C) a temporary transfer of possession that occurs between an unlicensed transferor and an unlicensed transferee, if--
`(i) the temporary transfer of possession occurs in the home or curtilage of the unlicensed transferor;
`(ii) the firearm is not removed from that home or curtilage during the temporary transfer; and
`(iii) the transfer has a duration of less than 7 days; and
`(D) a temporary transfer of possession without transfer of title made in connection with lawful hunting or sporting purposes if the transfer occurs--
`(i) at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms and the firearm is, at all times, kept within the premises of the shooting range;
`(ii) at a target firearm shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by a State agency or nonprofit organization and the firearm is, at all times, kept within the premises of the shooting competition; or
`(iii) while hunting or trapping, if--
`(I) the activity is legal in all places where the unlicensed transferee possesses the firearm;
`(II) the temporary transfer of possession occurs during the designated hunting season; and
`(III) the unlicensed transferee holds any required license or permit.
`(3) For purposes of this subsection, the term `transfer'--
`(A) shall include a sale, gift, loan, return from pawn or consignment, or other disposition; and
`(B) shall not include temporary possession of the firearm for purposes of examination or evaluation by a prospective transferee while in the presence of the prospective transferee.
`(4)(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Attorney General may implement this subsection with regulations.
`(B) Regulations promulgated under this paragraph--
`(i) shall include a provision setting a maximum fee that may be charged by licensees for services provided in accordance with paragraph (1); and
`(ii) shall include a provision requiring a record of transaction of any transfer that occurred between an unlicensed transferor and unlicensed transferee accordance with paragraph (1).'.
(b) Technical and Conforming Amendments-
(1) SECTION 922- Section 922(y)(2) of title 18, United States Code, is amended, in the matter preceding subparagraph (A), by striking `, (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II)' and inserting `and (g)(5)(B)'.
(2) SECTION 925A- Section 925A of title 18, United States Code, is amended, in the matter preceding paragraph (1), by striking `subsection (s) or (t) of section 922' and inserting `section 922(s)'.
(3) NICS IMPROVEMENT AMENDMENTS ACT- Section 103(f) of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 is amended by striking `section 922(t)' and inserting `section 922(s)'.
(4) CONSOLIDATED AND FURTHER CONTINUING APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2012- Section 511 of title V of division B of the Consolidated and Further Continuing Appropriations Act, 2012 (18 U.S.C. 922 note) is amended by striking `subsection 922(t)' and inserting `section 922(s)' each place it appears.

SEC. 123. LOST AND STOLEN REPORTING.

(a) In General- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end--
`(aa) It shall be unlawful for any person who lawfully possesses or owns a firearm that has been shipped or transported in, or has been possessed in or affecting, interstate or foreign commerce, to fail to report the theft or loss of the firearm, within 24 hours after the person discovers the theft or loss, to the Attorney General and to the appropriate local authorities.'.
(b) Penalty- Section 924(a)(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraph (B) and inserting the following:
`(B) knowingly violates subsection (a)(4), (f), (k), (q), or (aa) of section 922;'.

SEC. 124. EFFECTIVE DATE.

The amendments made by this title shall take effect 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act.

gc70
April 11, 2013, 12:06 PM
After the vote to proceed, Reid discussed the open amendments process and other procedural details. I was not listening as closely as I should have been, but I thought he said something about moving forward today so Manchin and Toomey would be able to prepare to discuss their amendment on Tuesday morning.

akv3g4n
April 11, 2013, 12:08 PM
Anyone have a link to find how your Senator voted?

gc70
April 11, 2013, 12:11 PM
It takes about an hour after a vote before the detailed results are published, but the Roll Call will be published here (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00095).

Roll Call vote #95 has been published. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00095)

salvador31c
April 11, 2013, 12:12 PM
Anyone have a link to find how your Senator voted?
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/a_three_sections_with_teasers/votes.htm

Ohio Gun Guy
April 11, 2013, 12:14 PM
We need lots of folks to hit that site, and make sure their senators know we are looking. Immagine if the traffic crashed the site or hit record numbers....

Lots of uncomfortable Senators!

Old Fuff
April 11, 2013, 12:15 PM
At this point in time they're is no reason to rush to judgment, and some good reasons not to.

We should not forget that both the president and NRA are in complete agreement on one point: They both want these bills to go forward far enough to be voted on.

Why?

Because then both sides will know who is on what side. When it comes to legislators what they say is meaningless. How they vote is what matters. If supposed friends turn on us now we will deal with them latter in the mid-term 2014 election or later, and fortunately we have time to get ready and hopefully financially support those that really stand fast with us with donations to their campaign funds. Those that turn out to be pretended supporters of the 2nd Amendment will discover they kicked a hornet's nest.

Even if these bills survive and pass through the Democrat-dominated Senate in they're present form (which is far from a sure thing), they must still be passed in the House of Representatives, that at the present time seems doubtful. Since all of the House members will be up for election in 2014, our communications and e-mails - especially if they continue- will carry additional weight.

As time passes we will both lose and win some battles, but the war is far from over.

Bubbles
April 11, 2013, 12:17 PM
ETA: Ohio Gun Guy posted the text of the bill while I was posting this. I don't see anything in the bill that would permit transfers between "neighbors".

Supposedly this is a synopsis of the bill (firearm-related stuff only), my comments are in red:
http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=965
TITLE ONE: GETTING ALL THE NAMES OF PROHIBITED PURCHASERS INTO THE BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM

Summary of Title I: This section improves background checks for firearms by strengthening the instant check system.

• Encourage states to provide all their available records to NICS by restricting federal funds to states who do not comply. - All funds? Some funds?

• Allow dealers to voluntarily use the NICS database to run background checks on their prospective employees. - While nice, it wouldn't necessarily pick up everything I as a store owner need to know before trusting someone to handle money.

• Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA) - This is a MAJOR problem IMO.

• Provides a legal process for a veteran to contest his/her placement in NICS when there is no basis for barring the right to own a firearm. - I thought one already exists.

TITLE TWO: REQUIRING BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR FIREARM SALES

Summary of Title II: This section of the bill requires background checks for sales at gun shows and online while securing certain aspects of 2nd Amendment rights for law abiding citizens.

• Closes the gun show and other loopholes while exempting temporary transfers and transfers between family members. - 1) There is no "gun show loophole", and 2) what "other loopholes"?

• Fixes interstate travel laws for sportsmen who transport their firearms across state lines in a responsible manner. The term "transport" includes staying in temporary lodging overnight, stopping for food, buying fuel, vehicle maintenance, and medical treatment. - OK this is good and hopefully will stop places like NYC and Port of NJ from infringing on the rights of air travelers, but I won't hold my breath unless it also includes some sort of punishment for the state or locality.

• Protects sellers from lawsuits if the weapon cleared through the expanded background checks and is subsequently used in a crime. This is the same treatment gun dealers receive now. - How many private sellers have ever been sued for this?

• Allows dealers to complete transactions at gun shows that take place in a state for which they are not a resident. - About time.

• Ensures that sales at gun shows are not prevented by delayed approvals from NICS. - So what if I call NICS at 4:55 pm on Sunday afternoon from a gun show, and I get a delayed response?

• Requires the FBI to give priority to finalizing background checks at gun shows over checks at store front dealerships. - So now we have to tell NICS if we're calling from a gun show or from the premises? Yeah, figure every weekend every FFL will be calling in from a gun show no matter what.

• Authorizes use of a state concealed carry permit instead of a background check when purchasing a firearm from a dealer. - Across the board in all states, no matter what standard the state uses to issue permits?

• Permits interstate handgun sales from dealers. - This is long overdue.

• Allows active military to buy firearms in their home states. - They can already with appropriate ID.

• Family transfers and some private sales (friends, neighbors, other individuals) are exempt from background checks. - But what if you see your neighbor at a gun show? How is "neighbor" defined?

• Adds a 15 year penalty for improper use or storage of records.

alsaqr
April 11, 2013, 12:25 PM
• Provides a legal process for a veteran to contest his/her placement in NICS when there is no basis for barring the right to own a firearm. - I thought one already exists.


There is one big sticking point. The VA and other federal agencies do not use an adjudification process.

tarosean
April 11, 2013, 12:25 PM
• Family transfers and some private sales (friends, neighbors, other individuals) are exempt from background checks. - But what if you see your neighbor at a gun show? How is "neighbor" defined?

Or friend for that matter???

tarosean
April 11, 2013, 12:31 PM
Tarosean, the facts really do not matter to them. Its about exploiting emotions and gaining control.

Ohhhhh.. I would have never guessed that with the constant pictures of the slain children. :fire:

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 12:34 PM
I would love to explain but I am ignorant to the how & why myself. Reid expressed his wish that it go down that way. I don't know if he has the power to do that as Senate Majority Leader or if they are working that out in caucus now during a recess and he was just expressing what he would like.

baz
April 11, 2013, 12:35 PM
The vote is up. Check this list and see if your Senator is on it:

Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Ayotte (R-NH), Yea
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Flake (R-AZ), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Heller (R-NV), Yea
Hoeven (R-ND), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Kirk (R-IL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
Toomey (R-PA), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Yea

Begich (D-AK), Nay
Pryor (D-AR), Nay

Why isn't the NRA "scoring" this vote?

Fryerpower
April 11, 2013, 12:39 PM
Grouped By Vote Position

YEAs ---68
Alexander (R-TN)
Ayotte (R-NH)
Baldwin (D-WI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bennet (D-CO)
Blumenthal (D-CT)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burr (R-NC)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Collins (R-ME)
Coons (D-DE)
Corker (R-TN)
Cowan (D-MA)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Flake (R-AZ)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
Hagan (D-NC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Heller (R-NV)
Hirono (D-HI)
Hoeven (R-ND)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaine (D-VA)
King (I-ME)
Kirk (R-IL)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Manchin (D-WV)
McCain (R-AZ)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murphy (D-CT)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schatz (D-HI)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Toomey (R-PA)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Warren (D-MA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wicker (R-MS)
Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs ---31
Barrasso (R-WY)
Begich (D-AK)
Blunt (R-MO)
Boozman (R-AR)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
Cruz (R-TX)
Enzi (R-WY)
Fischer (R-NE)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johanns (R-NE)
Johnson (R-WI)
Lee (R-UT)
McConnell (R-KY)
Moran (R-KS)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Paul (R-KY)
Portman (R-OH)
Pryor (D-AR)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rubio (R-FL)
Scott (R-SC)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)

Not Voting - 1
Lautenberg (D-NJ)

mdauben
April 11, 2013, 12:44 PM
We should not forget that both the president and NRA are in complete agreement on one point: They both want these bills to go forward far enough to be voted on.

Why?

Because then both sides will know who is on what side.
I really have to question this line of thinking. If there is any chance at all of a bill like this passing (and while it may be unlikely, anyone who thinks its impossible is living in a fools paradice) I feel we should take every opportunity that presents itself to stop this bill. :mad:

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/leg...sers/votes.htm

Its not up yet.
Its up now, and there are a lot of suprising (to me at least) votes. I see AZ, GA, and TN, all solidly Republican states, voted for "cloture" (whatever the heck that means). Many other states split their votes, with yet more Republicans voting for "cloture". If they needed 60 votes to pass the motion, it was Republicans who give them the push over the top they needed. :fire:

At least I have the comfort that both of my Senators voted against the motion.

Old Fuff
April 11, 2013, 01:01 PM
All this vote will do is move the bills to the floor for more debate and possible amendments. The bills in question may not end up looking anything like they do now (which could be good or bad depending how things go, and it could go on for weeks). Also it is highly improbable that all those who voted today to block a filibuster will also vote to support the present bills.

Then a final vote may or may not be filibustered. If or when it is blocked the final vote will be taken. If it isn't blocked all of the bills will fail.

If the bills survive they will go on the the House of Representatives, and a whole different environment.

We are not yet past the middle of this war.

salvador31c
April 11, 2013, 01:05 PM
http://www.senate.gov/CRSReports/crs-publish.cfm?pid='0E%2C*PLW%3D%22P%20%20%0A

If you'd liked to read up on procedure. I don't envision a waiving of those 30 hours or consideration/debate from certain senators.

Time for Consideration and Debate
Rule XXII imposes a cap of no more than 30 additional hours for the Senate to consider a
question after invoking cloture on it. This 30-hour cap is a ceiling on the time available for postcloture consideration, not just for debate. The time used in debate is counted against the 30 hours,
but so too is the time consumed by quorum calls, roll call votes, parliamentary inquiries, and all
other proceedings that occur while the matter under cloture is pending before the Senate. The 30-
hour period can be increased if the Senate agrees to a non-debatable motion for that purpose.
Adopting this motion also requires a three-fifths vote of the Senators duly chosen and sworn.

GlockFan
April 11, 2013, 01:13 PM
I called Kirk's office (R-IL) and it went straight to an automated system. Told him flat out if he sticks with his vote to not count on me for any future endeavors. There is no reason to call Durbin as it is a waste of time. He is a ring leader of this sort of legislation.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 01:18 PM
After the vote to proceed, Reid discussed the open amendments process and other procedural details. I was not listening as closely as I should have been, but I thought he said something about moving forward today so Manchin and Toomey would be able to prepare to discuss their amendment on Tuesday morning.

Yes, he said Toomey and Manchin have a lot of work to do and it might be Tuesday morning before they get to the amendment but then he said that was no reason why they shouldn't move forward and reiterated that he wants to deal with Toomey-Manchin, AWB, and mag bans first. I'm guessing they'll have to push Toomey-Manchin back... If none of the Senators have the text, how are they going to debate it?

Old Fuff
April 11, 2013, 01:19 PM
I really have to question this line of thinking. If there is any chance at all of a bill like this passing (and while it may be unlikely, anyone who thinks its impossible is living in a fools paradise) I feel we should take every opportunity that presents itself to stop this bill.

The likelihood of a vote blocking an open debate on these bills through a filibuster was questionable at best, even if 100% of the Republicans supported it. On a straight party vote the Democrats have the majority. Now the senators on our side, Republicans and Democrats, will have a chance to muddle the waters and mess up the bills with amendments which may in the end get them voted down on an individual basis, or so bad that they're is no chance of then getting through the House. Is their a risk? Sure, but it's a small one. The filibuster that matters will be the last one, and if it comes to that you will see an entirely different vote. The opportunities you want to exploit are the ones you have the best chance of winning. This wasn't one of them.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 01:25 PM
ETA: Ohio Gun Guy posted the text of the bill while I was posting this. I don't see anything in the bill that would permit transfers between "neighbors".

Ohio Gun Guy posted the text of S.649, not the Toomey-Manchin amendment.

JFtheGR8
April 11, 2013, 01:27 PM
I called Kirk's office (R-IL) and it went straight to an automated system. Told him flat out if he sticks with his vote to not count on me for any future endeavors. There is no reason to call Durbin as it is a waste of time. He is a ring leader of this sort of legislation.

Durbin and Kirk don't give a rat's behind about how you or I would like for them to vote. I've been writing to them both for over a year and don't get any response from Kirk at all and form letters from Durbin. All they care about is Chicago politics.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

miller.lyte
April 11, 2013, 01:33 PM
I wrote both my senators (Franken and Klobuchar) and told them their "Yea"s have lost my vote. I know Klobuchar doesn't give a hoot; Franken might if he remembers how close his election was, but I will do my part to ensure the both of them see the light in 2014. The light of day as they stand waiting in the unemployment line that is. They make me ashamed to call MN my home state.

Lennyjoe
April 11, 2013, 02:00 PM
The following is a list of Republican lawmakers who voted to advance the gun legislation in the Senate Thursday:

New Hampshire Sen. Kelly Ayotte

Georgia Sen. Saxby Chambliss

Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn

Maine Sen. Susan Collins

Arizona Sen. Jeff Flake

Georgia Sen. Johnny Isakson

Arizona Sen. John McCain

Mississippi Sen. Roger Wicker

North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr

North Dakota Sen. John Hoeven

Illinois Sen. Mark Kirk

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham

Tennessee Sen. Lamar Alexander

Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker

Pennsylvania Sen. Pat Toomey

Nevada Sen. Dean Heller



Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2013/04/11/list-republican-democratic-defections-senate-gun-legislation/#ixzz2QB9kQGn6

RevolvingGarbage
April 11, 2013, 02:13 PM
I am of mixed feelings on proceeding with this bill. Obviously, eliminating private sales is out of the question. I will have to go through the text myself to see the particulars of what else is not going to fly.

They seem to have thrown us a few bones in a few small ways. Obviously they did so to increase the chances of the bill being voted on, but wouldn't it be kind of nice to flush most of the bill, while cherry picking out all the little bonuses? I for one would be happy to be able to show my valid FL CWL in lieu of waiting on an NICS call. The strengthening of FOPA is also a good thing.

Of course, we could always strike the whole thing down and next year come out with a bill including all of the little perks from this bill..

pillage
April 11, 2013, 02:19 PM
Having contacted both my Senators numerous times, I am seriously tired of getting the wishy washy form letters. That being said, I now send all my contacts to them with a couple of short sentences.
" Dear Senator,
Being that I have my doubts that my letters actually get read, I will happily vote against all who forward any schemes to infringe on the Second Amendment rights. I will non stop campaign to anyone I come in contact with to do likewise.
Thank-you for time."

Sending nice letters only gets bs replies, so I cut to the chase.

breakingcontact
April 11, 2013, 02:26 PM
The problem is with mentally unstable people and our mental healthcare system and that is where the solution lies. But its way beyond "gun control". The "doctors" that treat these people often create or unleash these terribly troubled people. The cases where they have tried to notify people that their patients are dangerous, they werent listened to. But the gutless politicians have a hard time admitting that and focusing on that so they go after the firearms and the rights of those who haven't committed any crimes and have zero indication of perpetrating a horrible crime.

Anything else is just weakening the second amendment. Thanks to those of you who have been updating the proceedings.

pillage
April 11, 2013, 02:29 PM
In typical fashion our senate is going after the people who are not the problem. November can't get here fast enough, for me to vote my displeasure.

JRH6856
April 11, 2013, 02:31 PM
Getting the bill to the floor for debate may not be good single issue politics, but it is good party politics for both parties. Each party thinks this may be a critical issue in the 2014 elections and either want to get themselves on record or get the opposition on record.

Each party believes this issue can be leveraged to gain seats in both houses in 2014.

Parties aside, it is still in our interests to have this die ASAP. Just remember: There are 100 senators and 435 representitives. As individuals, our emails, letters and phone calls can influence 2% of the Senate, but only 0.35% of the House.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 03:08 PM
Debate resumed but no substance yet. Murphy did another blood dance and now someone is discussing tax reform.

morcey2
April 11, 2013, 03:40 PM
It looks like the c-span2 feed is dead. I can get to both cspan1 and cspan3, but not 2.

Matt

Bartholomew Roberts
April 11, 2013, 04:00 PM
You aren't missing anything. Just reruns of earlier speeches, mostly anti.

breakingcontact
April 11, 2013, 04:09 PM
Before when things were looking grim for freedom we looked to the House to stop things, knowing they may well pass in the Senate. How does House opposition/support look for what the Senate is currently working on?

JRH6856
April 11, 2013, 05:01 PM
Before when things were looking grim for freedom we looked to the House to stop things, knowing they may well pass in the Senate. How does House opposition/support look for what the Senate is currently working on?

It is hard to assess since we really don't know what the Senate is currently working on, and what comes out may look totally different than what goes in.

Boehner said this morning that when something comes out of the Senate, IF something comes out of the Senate, he will send it to the House Judiciary Committee. Most people expect it to die there, but Boehner said he expects the House to act on whatever the Senate sends so that suggests he may force it out of committee and put it to a vote.

If it goes that far, there is a remote chance that Obama may deal on spending and taxes to get something passed on gun control.

morcey2
April 11, 2013, 05:05 PM
It is hard to assess since we really don't know what the Senate is currently working on, and what comes out may look totally different than what goes in.

Boehner said this morning that when something comes out of the Senate, IF something comes out of the Senate, he will send it to the House Judiciary Committee. Most people expect it to die there, but Boehner said he expects the House to act on whatever the Senate sends so that suggests he may force it out of committee and put it to a vote.

If it goes that far, there is a remote chance that Obama may deal on spending and taxes to get something passed on gun control.
I've always thought that one of the main purposes (to the left) of any proposed gun control bill would be to have it die in the House. If it passed the Senate with "bipartisan support," all the better. That would give them a rallying cry for the 2014 election. I still think it would backfire on them, but I'd rather not take that chance.

Matt

JRH6856
April 11, 2013, 05:57 PM
I've always thought that one of the main purposes (to the left) of any proposed gun control bill would be to have it die in the House. If it passed the Senate with "bipartisan support," all the better. That would give them a rallying cry for the 2014 election. I still think it would backfire on them, but I'd rather not take that chance.

Matt
If it dies in the House, they will certainly use it as an issue in 2014, but I don't really think the overall goal included having it die anywhere. I think Obama's plan was to hammer the House Republicans on budget and taxes and try to win the House back in 2014 on those issues. And, by that time he might also have the opportunity for another SCOTUS appt. Then after 2014, he would pursue gun control with both houses and maybe SCOTUS in hand.

But after Sandy Hook, they really thought they could get it done sooner rather than later. We can only hope they moved too soon and overplayed their hand.

mdauben
April 11, 2013, 05:59 PM
Most people expect it to die there, but Boehner said he expects the House to act on whatever the Senate sends so that suggests he may force it out of committee and put it to a vote.

If it goes that far, there is a remote chance that Obama may deal on spending and taxes to get something passed on gun control.

IMO this is all the more reason why everything possible should have been done to stop this foul piece of legislation from going anywhere. There is no guarantee this won't pass both houses of congress. No one in DC can be trusted. :fire:

JRH6856
April 11, 2013, 06:49 PM
There are never any guarantees in politics.

Carl N. Brown
April 11, 2013, 08:08 PM
First, the only way a Universal Background Check law could have prevented the Sandy Hook massacre would have been if, after Adam Lanza murdered his mother in her sleep to steal her guns, he would have been blocked from taking possession of the guns by failing a UBC.

Second, the big deal about UBCs was that "40%" of gun acquisitions were not through licensed dealers or stores, according to the National Survey on Private Ownership and use of Firearms, conducted in 1994, written up by Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig in 1997, and used by the Clinton Administration in justifying its gun control policies.

The 40% breakdown was:
13% private sales of used guns.
3% private swaps and trades of used guns.
19% gifts between family members and friends.
5% inheritances.

If the UBC bill as written exempts bona fide gifts between relatives and inheritances, 24% of gun acquisitions, that means that the UBC will only affect 16% of non-store firearms acquisitions: private sales and swaps and trades of used guns.

tarosean
April 12, 2013, 12:49 AM
Any updates from the discussion on the floor???

Im on the other side of the world right now so I missed the second session.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 12, 2013, 01:28 PM
Nothing of interest today. Mostly reruns of previous speeches and unrelated stuff. Looks like they are still working out what amendments will be offered. I would guess no major news until Monday or Tuesday; but there will be a lot of people watching just in case.

The text of the Toomey-Manchin Amendment was finally released:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=712566

Bartholomew Roberts
April 16, 2013, 10:02 AM
Senate gavelling in for this morning. Tenative schedule shows debate on gun bill will begin at 11:00am Eastern.

S.729 and S.730 (both gun bills) offered to be read into the calendar. Senator objects. Bills placed on the calendar (this means they will be delayed 30 hours until they can be considered by the Senate).

Reid says Schumer-Toomey-Manchin supported by 650,000 SAF/CCRKBA members :barf: and he hopes it gets a vote.

tyeo098
April 16, 2013, 10:26 AM
Oh joy.

Tim Kaine is up. :barf: GO AWAY KAINE! You don't represent Virginia!

Kaine talking about Va.Tech. Doesn't he know Cho passed his background checks, AND waited the then-law 1 gun a month rule? AND PRIMARILY USED 10rd MAGS!?

I guess not.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 16, 2013, 10:37 AM
Tim Kaine up saying that that the Senate has lacked the courage to look at these issues for 20 years (i.e. 1994). Apparently he forgot this was thoroughly discussed and rejected by the Senate in 2004.

tyeo098
April 16, 2013, 10:42 AM
Warner is up talking about campus safety, school resource officers, etc.

AAAAAAND He says he supports Manchin-Toomey.

There goes my vote come next year. I know he knows it.

tyeo098
April 16, 2013, 11:14 AM
CSPAN announced that Obama will be giving a speech/distraction at 1130AM EST on the Boston bombings.

It seems they are trying to do everything to hide this stuff while the pass it. Tech anniversary debating gun control? This cant go well for us. Now the el Pres. is going to be speaking during the debate.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 16, 2013, 11:17 AM
Senate resumes S.649 debate. Senator from Iowa slams STM and says gun control supporters do not have the votes despite all the arm-twisting.

Senator from IA rips them for voting to conduct debate on S.649 and then blocking all votes on all other amendments because they can't get support for Toomey-Manchin. Tells them the votes aren't going to be there.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 16, 2013, 11:27 AM
Loser Senator from IL (pick one) up to babble.

tyeo098
April 16, 2013, 11:27 AM
Dick Durbin bellowing out 'FOR THE CHILDREN!'

Giffords was 'gunned down at point blank range'

'A semiautomatic gun firing off rounds as fast as the shooter could load them'

Nonsense.

Spouted off the 40% number

Bartholomew Roberts
April 16, 2013, 11:32 AM
Durbin gives an example of murderer who bought through private sale. Durbin seems to think that because said murderer was denied under a NICS check and never prosecuted for it, it is a good example to sell background checks.

Durbin blames the NRA for blocking prosecutions of NICS denials because they won't approve the Administration's choice of ATF directors. :rolleyes:

tyeo098
April 16, 2013, 11:38 AM
Durbin says that police officers support this bill.

They dont.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 16, 2013, 12:22 PM
Senate stands in recess until 2:15 Eastern for weekly party caucuses. Sounds like the votes are still not there.

Senate back up again. CT Senator blood dancing. Still no votes scheduled which suggests that STM still doesn't have 60 votes.

Sen. Murphy still blood dancing. Several people who are contacting their Senators are being told the STM amendment will not be voted on until Thursday now; but no official word on that yet

Murphy finally relents. Quorum call.

5:01 - Boxer's turn to blood dance. Talking about AWB. Talking about School Safety act to harden schools now.

Boxer will support Toomey-Manchin, AWB, magazine ban and school safety act. No shockers. Senate Majority Leader up at 6pm Eastern.

Right now we are still stuck on the first amendment because Reid wants STM to go first and the votes aren't there for it. One newspaper says they are 3 short and Biden tweeted they were 2 votes short.

We won't have any idea what the entire bill looks like until all of the amendments are voted on.

Sen. Cardin (D-MD) up for mag bans, AWB, UBC, etc.

Still nothing of substance.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 12:34 AM
Vote on Toomey-Manchin, AWB, and Magazine Bans scheduled for 4pm Eastern tomorrow. I am hoping that the late in the day vote indicates the Dems are still searching for enough votes to pass Toomey-Manchin. And they may end up delaying the vote yet again at this rate.

Borrowed from Barry Lee at TFL:

Ok, according to the Atlanta Journal Washington Correspondent they will be voting later today (Wednesday 4/17) on the following amendments.

Here are all nine of the amendments to be voted on Wednesday:

Manchin-Toomey amendment #715

Grassley substitute amendment consistent with the summary which is at the desk;

Leahy-Collins amendment #713 (trafficking)

Cornyn amendment #719 (conceal carry)

Feinstein amendment #711 (assault weapons/clip bans)

Burr amendment #720 (veterans/guns)

Lautenberg-Blumenthal amendment #714 (high capacity clip ban)

Barrasso amendment #717 (privacy)

Harkin-Alexander amendment relative to mental health, the text of which is at the desk.

Source: http://m.ajc.com/weblogs/jamie-dupree/2013/apr/16/senate-sets-showdown-votes-gun-bill/

Here is a discussion of the Grassley Alternative to Toomey-Manchin (http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2013/04/grassley-proposal.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&m=1). It is co-sponsored by Ted Cruz so I remain cautiously optimistic.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 08:49 AM
Senator Manchin now saying Toomey-Manchin does not have the votes.
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/Senate-Gun-Vote-Background-Check-Amendment--203365291.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_MIBrand

45bthompson
April 17, 2013, 09:16 AM
That was a nice news story to wake up to! Lets keep the pressure on until the dust settles though.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 09:48 AM
Manchin walking it back now...

About 40 minutes later, Manchin’s office issued a clarification, saying he will continue to push for the Manchin-Toomey amendment.

"Sen. Manchin remains optimistic and hopeful that if Senators and the American people read the bill, they will support his commonsense approach to require criminal and mental background checks for advertised sales, including purchases at gun shows and online sales, without infringing on Americans' Second Amendment rights," Manchin spokesman Jonathan Kott said, adding: “He will continue to explain his bill to his colleagues and anyone with concerns until the minute they vote."

As we’ve noted before, the math remains very tough for the gun bill, with basically all remaining undecided senators needing to vote for it, in addition to getting Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.), who has been ill in recent weeks and unable to travel, to the Senate chamber.

Amendments to the gun bill require 60 votes, meaning Democrats needed to pick off a number of Republicans in order to pass it. So far, only three — including Toomey — have signed on, and several Democrats have wavered as well.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 09:53 AM
Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.), who has been ill in recent weeks

Not that I'd wish anything bad to him...

It seems that when senators actually READ the text of the bill, it doesn't seem as glorious as when they were parading around their 'compromise'

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 10:01 AM
Old Hag from Cali up dancing in the blood of the children.

Its sick really.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 10:45 AM
I turned it off for a while because I could feel my IQ dropping watching the Old Hag.

Turned it back on and Sen Cruz is on the tube saying that he has a SUBSTITUTE GUN BILL.

SEN CRUZ HAS A SUBSTITUTE.

This should be good!

In other news I'm drinking coffee for the first time and its gross.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 10:54 AM
Sen. Cornyn up talking about National CCW recip.

I'm still... ehhhhhhhhh... it sounds good now but its just a stepping stone for 'national standards' etc... :\

Old Fuff
April 17, 2013, 11:15 AM
Bloomberg is reporting this morning that Sen. Reed will reverse his previous position and vote in favor of an AWB/Magazine limit ban. Quotes him as saying:

Assault weapons have one purpose and one purpose only, to kill a large number of people really quick,” Reid said on the Senate floor. “This goes well beyond the purpose of self- defense. :banghead:

morcey2
April 17, 2013, 11:24 AM
Bloomberg is reporting this morning that Sen. Reed will reverse his previous position and vote in favor of an AWB/Magazine limit ban. Quotes him as saying:

Assault weapons have one purpose and one purpose only, to kill a large number of people really quick,” Reid said on the Senate floor. “This goes well beyond the purpose of self- defense.


:banghead:

"Killing large numbers of people really quick" makes is sound perfect for self defense. Home invasion robbery anyone?

Matt

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 11:25 AM
Sen. Barrasso is arguing for the Concealment of Concealed Carry data. Much similar to the law we passed here in VA. Brings up recent NY newspaper that published the map.

Domestic violence victim was so concerned.

Sen. Manchin up to speak, asks for 45 minutes. Oh joy.

Says NRA-Alerts are misinformed.

Manchin is saying that "If you dont like my bill, tell me and we'll work with you to make it so everyone likes it"

Sucking up to female congresswomen.

Talking about Al Queda for some reason. Quoted the guy saying "you can buy a fully automatic assault rifle w/ no background check and no ID" did NOT CORRECT HIM. TOOK IT AS FACT.
This guy is an idiot!!!!

beeenbag
April 17, 2013, 11:45 AM
Yeah, but Manchin says this bill will stop him in his tracks!!!! Dont you know all you have to do to stop terrorist, is to make a law they arent allowed to break? Terrorist wont obtain guns illegially if we pass this bill! :rolleyes:

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 11:48 AM
Manchin says 'If it saves just one life...'

At the expense of our liberties? I'd rather move to Canada.

beeenbag
April 17, 2013, 11:52 AM
Manchin says "If you want to honor a veteran, this bill does that." Man... he is really trying hard.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 12:08 PM
Sen. Cruz proposing his alt. bill during the Quorum call.

Sen. Gillibrand starts up after the call with a VERY emotional appeal. Hand moving, intonation, the full shabam.

Sen. Blumenthal up.. I have it muted since the DNY Sen. I can only imagine what he's saying :rolleyes:

Sen. Menendez is speaking against National Reciprocity

miller.lyte
April 17, 2013, 12:41 PM
Menendez up, not understanding what concealed carry is all about. :rolleyes:

'if we have national reciprocity we'll have more gun violence!'

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 12:44 PM
Menendez says 2a is only for hunting.

Complains bump fire is 13rds per second.

Talking about we dont 'NEED' this.

We dont NEED import cars either. Nor does NJ NEED him as senator.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 12:51 PM
Sen. Coburn up.

Says NICS isnt background check, its a 'DO NOT BUY' list. Like the Do not fly list of DHS.

Talks about list-checking portal. Not going through FFL, open NICS to everyone.

Havent heard if mandatory yet :\

miller.lyte
April 17, 2013, 12:54 PM
Coburn up. Says everyone is getting emotional and irrational. Advocates private gun owners to do a check on their buyer before selling with a nics "PIN number."

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 12:57 PM
Coburn says there is a SUNSET provision after 5 years, it goes away.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 01:13 PM
Burr now up promoting his bill to remove veterans put on NICS by VA without adjudication or being found a danger to themselves or others.

Murphy up now. SSDD. Claims firearms have become remarkably more powerful in the last few decades :confused: suggests a good school shooter strategy is to have children shot with smaller firearms (not making that up by the way)

Just looked up and noticed Murphy has a picture chart of "assault weapons" that contains several NFA weapons, including the already banned Striker shotgun.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 01:39 PM
CCRKBA pulls support for Toomey-Manchin: http://www.examiner.com/article/ccrkba-pulls-support-for-manchin-toomey

Grassley up proposing his amendment. Sounds too good for us to pass IMO. Grassley does point by point takedown of Toomey-Manchin problems.

Enzi up to point out problems withthe "instant" parts of NICS

Reed, Senator from some NE banana republic, argues for AWB.

Sen. Richard Shelby comes out swinging hard with a speech that would make THR members think "Man, that guy is a little too gun crazy.". Very pro-2nd :D

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 02:35 PM
Sen. Warren from MA talking about Boston bombings for some reason?

If you were trying to find out if they would tie that event into supporting gun control, pay attention. This is probably it.

EDIT: Nvm, its just something that isn't related at all.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 02:48 PM
McCain is up, being old as usual.
Says he supports the 2A staunchly, and does not support AWB.
Supports Manchin-Toomey, arguing for, says it wont prevent anything in the future, and would not have prevented anything in the pass.

But its reasonable and constitutional. So we should have it.

WAT!? "It wont work, but we should have it anyway" wants gun control because its gun control. He is too old to think clearly.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 03:01 PM
Sen Harkin up talking about mental health.

Sen. Leahy sounds like he's falling asleep while talking.
Talking about illegal trafficking and straw purchases.

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 03:14 PM
I cannot hardly understand Leahy sounds like the dinosaur he is.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 03:25 PM
Sen. Cruz up

Says that violent criminals are the problem.
only 44 cases of lying on 4473 were prosecuted out of 48k.

Proposes national 'Project Exile' which focuses on actually prosecuting people who USE a gun in a crime. Genius.

Improves NICS with respect to mental illness

Cruz has slide on PoliceOne survey saying cops dont want more gun control.

brought up DC's ffl transfer fee is 150. Its a government penalty. its stupid.

I like this guy

Schumer says that since theyre not pushing for registration, then mandatory background checks is okay.

Manchin says "But private sales are not included" Cruz says that "since any advertisements are included then it sweeps in a LOT of new people"
Machin says that "but if I buy online, i still have to got through an FFL" Cruz wavers, doesnt mention that that only applies to INTERSTATE SALES not INTRASTATE sales. That would have shut up Manchin today

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 03:36 PM
Cruz makes the point that universal background checks would require a gun registry to be implemented.

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 03:39 PM
BINGO!!!! Cruz hits the nail on the head that the language in dems bill would include gun sales such as what takes place on this forum because its considered as advertised on the internet. Even if it is for a ftf private party transaction.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 03:42 PM
Sen Schumer up

Says background checks are sweet spot, because theyll 'do teh most good' and 'most likely to pass'
Schumer barfs up 40% figure

longknife12
April 17, 2013, 03:45 PM
FWIW, McCain has been for background and loopholes for years! Highly promoted insta checks in Colorado about 10-12 years ago.Don't get your hopes up on him.
Dan

Twmaster
April 17, 2013, 03:45 PM
So Chuckie is just trying to get anything to pass? Just because he wants something?

Dear Lord....

Senator Cruz++

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 03:46 PM
"Has there been a single step toward registration?"

NOT YET!!!!!

Lennyjoe
April 17, 2013, 03:47 PM
Why give that ass hat Leahy 5 minutes to rebuttle Cruz? I think Cruz was spot on.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 03:51 PM
Sen Johanns up.

Agrees w/. Cruz.
This bill would NOT have prevented any of these travesties

But hollywood glorifies this type of violence

Need more enforcement of laws on the books, and menatl health issues

Toomey seems to get the last work before the 4pm vote... crap.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 04:03 PM
Vote coming up soon.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 04:04 PM
Here it comes.

You counting again Bart?

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 04:10 PM
54 aye (stupid Kaine) (stupid Warner)(stupid McCain)
46 against :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd

60 votes needed
40 nays to stop amendment

lots of clapping

Lautenburg aint dead.

REID VOTED NO!!!!!!!!

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 04:12 PM
I am pulling my hair out!!!!!!!!!!!!

BoilerUP
April 17, 2013, 04:18 PM
No wonder nothing gets done in Congress...a single vote stretches out over more than 15 minutes...

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 04:19 PM
These idiots have no idea the monster they are voting in favor of.

morcey2
April 17, 2013, 04:21 PM
I thought it was 41 to stop it, not 40.

Captains1911
April 17, 2013, 04:22 PM
nevermind

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 04:22 PM
Amendment failed!

Toomey Manchin is DEAD!

beeenbag
April 17, 2013, 04:22 PM
dont matter, we just got 41 too

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 04:23 PM
Check my above post, im updating as they come in

BoilerUP
April 17, 2013, 04:26 PM
Harry Reid votes NO...hahahaha

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 04:27 PM
Final vote 54:46, amendment dead, Reid voted no!

morcey2
April 17, 2013, 04:27 PM
Did murkowski just change her vote? So did Reid (NV).

Nevermind. Heard the .....ski name wrong.

wojownik
April 17, 2013, 04:28 PM
60 votes were needed to pass - they only got 54

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 04:28 PM
54-46! Toomey-Manchin fails. Harry Reid voted against it even.

Grassley-Cruz alternative is up.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 04:28 PM
Okay, now for Grassly Amendment:

Some lady is yelling? Biden gets mad tells lady to shut up. Lol

52 aye
48 nay

Cruz Fails

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 04:28 PM
On to the Cruz Amendment

Twmaster
April 17, 2013, 04:32 PM
OK, what's next for us to push our Senators on? Lautenbooger?

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 04:33 PM
Calling roll for Grassley-Cruz alternative now.

beeenbag
April 17, 2013, 04:34 PM
reid must have decided he wanted another term.

dab102999
April 17, 2013, 04:38 PM
Did anyone catch who yelled shame on you while Biden was reading vote count??

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 04:39 PM
They spend more time pecking around the floor like my laying hens than anything else!

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 04:40 PM
Huge support for alternative. Will pass?... Hmmm maybe not, going to be close; but several TM votes got onboard.

Twmaster
April 17, 2013, 04:41 PM
Bart, can you point me to the 'cliff notes' of Grassley/Cruz?

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 04:41 PM
52 aye
48 nay

Cruz Fails

Ashcons
April 17, 2013, 04:42 PM
Anyone have a link to the vote tally? I'm surprised that Pryor came out against the bill - I guess he faced a LOT of pressure from voters here since his replies to my e-mails in January and February were along the lines of, "Well I support 2A, but I will also consider voting for any reasonable gun control legislation," and had me assuming he would vote with his party unless he had a lot of Arkansas gnawing on his ear to vote against new legislation.

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 04:46 PM
Dems cant get exactly what they want so they would rather have nothing. Cruz's bill addresses the root causes and they dont want to lose opportunities to dance on graves in the future.

jbrown50
April 17, 2013, 04:46 PM
52 YEA - 48 NAY for Grassley-Cruz. 60 needed.

Inebriated
April 17, 2013, 04:48 PM
EDIT - Ignore me.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 04:48 PM
Already voted.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 04:56 PM
Here are all nine of the amendments to be voted on Wednesday:

Manchin-Toomey amendment #715. Failed 54-46

Grassley substitute amendment consistent with the summary which is at the desk; Failed 52-48

Leahy-Collins amendment #713 (trafficking) Failed 58-42

Cornyn amendment #719 (conceal carry) Failed 57-43

Feinstein amendment #711 (assault weapons/clip bans) Failed 40-60

Burr amendment #720 (veterans/guns) Failed 56-44

Lautenberg-Blumenthal amendment #714 (high capacity clip ban) Failed 46-54

Barrasso amendment #717 (privacy)

Harkin-Alexander amendment relative to mental health

wojownik
April 17, 2013, 05:03 PM
Leahey Collins fails.

jbrown50
April 17, 2013, 05:03 PM
58 - 42 0n Leahy - Collins. Fails.

jbrown50
April 17, 2013, 05:07 PM
Cornyn amendment #719 (conceal carry) up.

Schumer all of a sudden believes in states rights. That was a laugh.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 05:07 PM
Thank you ,gentlemen ,for your fine reporting. Tye was quite entertaining. :cool:
Well thanks!
I had to go to the bathroom and missed the first half of the last vote.
Bart (can I call ya Bart? :D) seems to be doing a good job of keeping track. So I'll sit back as to not clog the thread. Keep track of his post here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8877530&postcount=144 to see tallies.

LubeckTech
April 17, 2013, 05:10 PM
What??? - I don't believe Chuckie does not want to support the law abiding CCW holders of the country in any way possible!

breakingcontact
April 17, 2013, 05:19 PM
You guys (and gals I hope) rock for reporting all of this. Sen Cruz! TEXAS

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 05:19 PM
57/43 Nat CC fails

AWB up next. I hope she gets creamed.

dab102999
April 17, 2013, 05:19 PM
Obama supposed to have public address at 5:30 on all the failed gun bills on cnn...amazing since voteing isnt done. He must have a psyhic..

jbrown50
April 17, 2013, 05:20 PM
57 - 43 on Cornyn amendment. Failed.

jbrown50
April 17, 2013, 05:22 PM
Feinstein's up whining like a baby.

wojownik
April 17, 2013, 05:23 PM
57/43 Nat CC fails

AWB up next. I hope she gets creamed.

Cornyn failed, but got a lot more votes than I thought it would.

Feinstein now berating her colleagues, and won't even get off the podium when reminded her time has expired. "Show some guts" she cojoles her fellow Senators, but delivers a messy, emotional and factually flawed diatrabe (as usual).

Grassly rebutting, by relying on citing court precedent and noting the slippery slope from attacking the 2nd amendment to attacking the rest of the Bill of Rights.

morcey2
April 17, 2013, 05:24 PM
Go Grassley!

hnk45acp
April 17, 2013, 05:25 PM
very close on national CCW!

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 05:26 PM
Keep in mind we don't care if ANY of these amendments pass because WE DONT WANT THE BILL TO PASS!

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 05:28 PM
The bill is now super draconian, so having a good bill attached to it dies us no good. I do hope to see the AWB go down in flames though.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 05:31 PM
Are they voting on the whole bill today? Or just amendments?

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 05:32 PM
No they will pick up in the morning

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 05:35 PM
My Sen. Warner voted no. Thats... interesting.

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 05:40 PM
Fienstein Amendment dies an agonizing death 40-60

jbrown50
April 17, 2013, 05:40 PM
40 YEA - 60 NAY. Feinstein amendment crashes and burns.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 05:40 PM
Ahhh that was satisfying.

Inebriated
April 17, 2013, 05:41 PM
Did I just hear it right? DiFi bill down 40-60?

I'm new to all this.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 05:41 PM
AWB goes down in flames 40-60

Inebriated
April 17, 2013, 05:42 PM
Is it the whole Bill, or amendments to it?

Is it dead? *pokes it with the military-style flash hider on my military-style AK*

Also, I've never been a massive fan of Richard Burr, but I have to say... I like what he said.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 05:42 PM
They are just voting on the amendments in my post #114.

Schumer arguing that it is better 100,000 veterans on NICS is good and they should be for ed to appeal if they want off the list :barf:

Currently, they are just voting on amendments; but the bill needs 60 votes to pass. Since no amendment yet has gotten 60 votes, this bill is likely dead. The White House, Bloomberg, etal are already in full hissyfit mode.

cfullgraf
April 17, 2013, 05:42 PM
Right, AWB failed. Ms Feinstein was fussing before the vote that the amendments needed 60 vote to pass and not just a majority.

Well, her amendment did not even get the 51 votes.

tootall
April 17, 2013, 05:43 PM
Reid voted for it

Inebriated
April 17, 2013, 05:44 PM
They are just voting on the amendments in my post #114.

Schumer arguing that it is better 100,000 veterans on NICS is good and they should be for ed to appeal if they want off the list

I think you mean post #144.

And thank you for it, by the way.

morcey2
April 17, 2013, 05:45 PM
Schumer just equated number of people on the NICS list with improvement. Not as to whether they should be there or not, but the more that we can get on there, the more gooder the system is.

jbrown50
April 17, 2013, 05:48 PM
Schumer up to his old tricks. Says that 130K vets will simply be removed from the restricted list, when the bill says that it will be done by a court order. :scrutiny:

gunslinger15
April 17, 2013, 05:51 PM
Schumer is scum I cant stand hearing him speak I feel greasy afterwards.

jbrown50
April 17, 2013, 06:00 PM
56 YEA - 44 NAY. Burr amendment fails

AlexanderA
April 17, 2013, 06:03 PM
They're now voting on the Lautenberg hi-cap magazine ban. Expected to fail as well.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 06:04 PM
Some retard says "high capacity" magazines used in half of crimes since 1982... Maybe because what you are calling "high capacity" is the magazine the firearm was originally designed to use?

Inebriated
April 17, 2013, 06:05 PM
You tell 'em, guy from Ohio.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 06:09 PM
Looks like Reid may pull S.649 with no final vote tomorrow. The bill will just sit on the legislative calendar to await return.

jbrown50
April 17, 2013, 06:23 PM
46 YEA - 54 NAY. Lautenberg-Blumenthal amendment (high capacity magazine ban) fails.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 17, 2013, 06:28 PM
Current status as of 4/18/2013 1:40 Eastern: All amendments required 60 votes to pass. The amendments to protect gun owner privacy and improve the mental health system oassed by solid majorities. The AWB and mag bans failed to achieve even 50 votes. The underlying S.649 bill is still horrible and not something we would want to pass; however it is also unlikely to pass and needs 60 votes. The Senate is going to take up judicial nominations when they return. There is still a rumor that Reid may pull the bill from the floor rather than see it die in a final vote and put it on the legislative calendar for later.

Manchin-Toomey amendment #715. Failed 54-46 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00097)

Grassley substitute amendment consistent with the summary which is at the desk; Failed 52-48 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00098)

Leahy-Collins amendment #713 (trafficking) Failed 58-42 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00099)

Cornyn amendment #719 (conceal carry) Failed 57-43 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00100)

Feinstein amendment #711 (assault weapons/clip bans) Failed 40-60 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00101)

Burr amendment #720 (veterans/guns) Failed 56-44 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00102)

Lautenberg-Blumenthal amendment #714 (high capacity clip ban) Failed 46-54 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00103)

Barrasso amendment #717 (privacy) Passed 67-30 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00104)

Harkin-Alexander amendment relative to mental health Passed 95-2 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00105)

JFtheGR8
April 17, 2013, 06:29 PM
Time to call/write our senators and either thank them for the way they voted or ask them what they were thinking. Durbin and Kirk will get the "what were you thinking" letter from me.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

longknife12
April 17, 2013, 06:30 PM
Off topic, think I'm gonna make a drink.....been a long fight!
Dan
;)

USAF_Vet
April 17, 2013, 06:36 PM
Off topic, think I'm gonna make a drink.....been a long fight!
Dan
;)
The fight ain't over. Just this round, and the bell hasn't rung just yet.

Twmaster
April 17, 2013, 06:50 PM
I'll take this win for now. Keep up the vigilance and be ready for the rest of this battle. It's obvious the losers are not going to accept defeat like good sports.

barnbwt
April 17, 2013, 06:52 PM
Christ, 39 other Sentors voted for the AWB? Not to mention that most of the amendments actually got majorities. Far from a victory, this is only a rebuff--This monster's far from put to bed. All this has shown them is they'll have to act faster next time an attacker goes off the deep end, or play around with the filibuster rules. If the Dems truly ever think they a lock on long-term power (the glorious One-Party system they've been pining after for years) don't think for a second they wouldn't muzzle filibusters.

I'd feel much better if I believed that everyone with their name on one of these bills was getting bum-rushed out of town next year. If we actually wish to make something out of this mess, we need to keep on our reps, perhaps more than before, about the need to disband old worthless laws. Repealing Hughes probably can't happen, but de-regulating suppressors and mandating reciprocity (without Gubmint "encouragement" coercing states into setting their bar higher) of carry should be rammed right back down their throats. Just because the Prez and senate probably won't go for it is no excuse--look how long DF's been pushing her bill, and she actually got scarily close to success through shear persistence.

Remember that only 4% of people even think this is a very important issue right now (Gallup) so any claim of victory is pure hubris.

TCB

Captains1911
April 17, 2013, 06:52 PM
Technically it's never over, but lets admit that this was a nice victory today.

tyeo098
April 17, 2013, 08:33 PM
I am rather pleased with the way Sen. Warner voted on the AWB and Mag Cap amendments.

I sent him a little congratulatory email. If he voted NAY on the big bill S649... I might just vote for him come next year. We'll see how he voes though.

Sen Kaine... Ohhh I'm a bit cross with him.

Contact your Senators and thank them for voting NAY on any bad amendments
If they voted AYE on any bad amendments... give them the 3rd degree.

If they're up for reelection... let them know you're not happy.

tyeo098
April 18, 2013, 12:01 AM
I'll probably get fired for watch CSPAN all day at work.

I have school tomorrow from 12-4, right when debates start, so you guys are on your own when it comes to live thread updates.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 18, 2013, 11:55 AM
They are still debating this morning; but nothing substantive happening. Just the usual mix of blood dancing, shame on you, cold dead hands, etc.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 18, 2013, 12:01 PM
Voting resumes. Barrasco amendment on privacy for private gun owner info now. Passed 67-30

Voting on bipartisan amendment (Harkins-Alexander) to improve mental health. Haven't seen the text. Mike Lee and Rand Paul just voted against it though.

dab102999
April 18, 2013, 12:47 PM
Barrasso admendment #717 passed 67-30...Harkin admendment mental health #630 passed 95-2...

7 admendments down..two passed. Recess now till 2:30

Bartholomew Roberts
April 18, 2013, 12:58 PM
When they come back, they are taking up judicial nominations instead of guns. Probably a slow day for gun stuff.

bhesler
April 18, 2013, 01:05 PM
Saw this posted at keepandbeararms.com today. That didn't take long.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/345866/senator-introduce-legislation-requiring-background-checks-sale-explosive-powder

Lautenberg is planning to introduce background checks for black powder / gunpowder, as an amendment to S.649, which is pretty much DOA, and possible as a standalone bill.

I guess he didn't bother to research the fact that black powder is easily made from readily available chemicals.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 18, 2013, 02:42 PM
Reid up. Lecturing on guns again. Says they will come back to bill.

Stabenow - mental health
Coburn - UBC
Veterans issues

Reid pulled S.649. Promises it will be back. Senate moving on to S.743 for now.

AlexanderA
April 18, 2013, 04:06 PM
Now that the pressure is off, the Coburn so-called "UBC" plan is something that gun owners could support. After all, it's practically voluntary in its actual application. On the other hand, the gun-control crowd, after suitable reflection, could come to support it when they realize that it's either that, or nothing at all. (At least some of them could reach that conclusion.) Couple the Coburn plan with national reciprocity (which, btw, got 57 votes yesterday) and repeal of the Hughes Amendment, and this whole thing could be a net gain for gun owners.

JRH6856
April 18, 2013, 05:39 PM
A final curtain. Can we cue Steven Sondheim's, Send in the Clowns?
Send in the Clowns? What have we been watching?

Twmaster
April 18, 2013, 05:47 PM
Send in the Clowns? What have we been watching?

Rocky Horror Picture Show?

gc70
April 18, 2013, 05:52 PM
Now that the pressure is off, the Coburn so-called "UBC" plan is something that gun owners could support.

Coburn's plan will never see a vote in the Senate. The last thing gun control advocates want is relatively comprehensive background check coverage without recordkeeping requirements.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 18, 2013, 06:18 PM
Yet you'll notice that Reid didn't schedule a vote on Coburn's amendment, even though it was the only proposed amendment with a chance left of salvaging the bill. I find it hard to believe but it appears the Schumer/Bloomberg wing wants a paper trail more than they want a background check.

It is amazing how they managed to sell all the media that the NRA is to blame without mentioning that little tidbit or how they voted down improved NICS funding to make that system better and prosecute people who violate it. They sit there and roll in the blood of children and lecture us righteously while they prevent several effective measures that do exactly what they claim they want..,

Texshooter
April 18, 2013, 08:02 PM
Now that the pressure is off, the Coburn so-called "UBC" plan is something that gun owners could support. After all, it's practically voluntary in its actual application. On the other hand, the gun-control crowd, after suitable reflection, could come to support it when they realize that it's either that, or nothing at all. (At least some of them could reach that conclusion.) Couple the Coburn plan with national reciprocity (which, btw, got 57 votes yesterday) and repeal of the Hughes Amendment, and this whole thing could be a net gain for gun owners.
Honestly, sir, I can not imagine supporting ANY firearms legislation unless we are given something common sense BACK TO US.

We have got to start fighting the media, antis, and politicians who keep using the "common sense" lie.

If they want something - I want something back.

Old Fuff
April 18, 2013, 08:14 PM
I find it hard to believe but it appears the Schumer/Bloomberg wing wants a paper trail more than they want a background check.

I'm sure they do. Background checks were and are a smoke screen. Keep in mind that for all practical purposes they can't track firearms made and sold before 1968 unless they go through an FFL as a used gun, and in those cases only the retailer might have a record. An awful lot of still serviceable firearms were sold between... say, 1900 and 1968.

Then you have the 10-of-thousands (and maybe more) of military small arms that were brought back by servicemen after World Wars One and Two; or imported later during the early-mid 1950's. Almost all of the remaining stores of .303 SMLE rifles and .38 and .455 revolvers ended up on our shores.

Without some way to bring all of these into the fold, an effective database couldn't be assembled.

This is the reason the anti's, from the president on down, absolutely refused to consider any kind of background check proposal that wouldn't leave a paper trail. The simple, easy way (for them) to accomplish this was to have all legal private transfers brokered through an FFL.

AlexanderA
April 18, 2013, 09:24 PM
If they want something - I want something back.

That was the whole point of my suggestion. I've been waiting a long time for the repeal of the Hughes Amendment.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 19, 2013, 06:30 PM
Here is a great article by the Wall Street Journal that not only goes into the politics but has a decent, fair history as well:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324493704578430672176449846.html

cfullgraf
April 19, 2013, 10:43 PM
Yes, the Wall Street Journal article is a good read. Thanks Bartholomew Roberts.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 20, 2013, 05:14 PM
You are welcome. Thanks to everyone who took a moment out of their lives to act on the information! You all make it worth the effort!

If you enjoyed reading about "S.649 Live Debate Thread - CSPAN2" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!