How many Garands out there?


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gbw
April 12, 2013, 12:03 AM
Just something to speculate over perhaps...

Looking on the CMP site recently, the better grade Garand rifles are now selling for upwards of $1000, and unusual samples for several times that cost, and they cannot ship them fast enough.

I wonder why. I'm a fan, and Garands are cool for sure, but they aren't terribly practical these days. Yes, I know the Patton comment and that we used them in WWII and Korea. But they are big, heavy, bulky, hard to mount a scope on, reasonably accurate but nothing special.

I get the value of rare samples to collectors, but in general it's hard to see the value for run-of-the-mill rifles.

They aren't rare, not even close. See them at every gun show, from CMP, and so on. Well over 5 million made. And for well used, obsolescent rifles they are quite costly.

So they really cannot be a good investment? How many are still around, do you think? I'm guessing several million.

(M1 Carbines otoh are a different story - they are light, handy, and seem quite relevant even today.)

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cyclopsshooter
April 12, 2013, 12:32 AM
Good points, don't know the numbers. I love the Garand but it's practicality to me is limited to its place in history and is mechanical design.. also like the ping... and the fact that they are a little more resilient to a ban than other semi-auto rifles. The Carbine would be more practical to me as a pinker and SD weapon. It has a pretty cool history too though :)

cfullgraf
April 12, 2013, 01:48 AM
It has to do with the "ping".

Garands are an importance piece of history.

They are not too high priced to obtain that piece of history. Yes, the value will not go up much in the short term, but they are not made any more and government surplus will come to an end.

Ammunition is still easily available. Ammunition for Garands is easily reloaded.

While I feel a 30 Carbine is a dandy defense rifle, i would not put a USGI carbine in that service. They are too valuable. A modern 30 Carbine such as Auto Ordinance or a 300 BLK would be a better choice in my opinion.

If the SHTF, the M1 would be a great long range rifle to have on hand.

Did I mention the "ping".

With parts or a spare rifle or two, it is easy to keep a Garand running.

No, Garands are not M4gerys, but who wants them to be.

tahunua001
April 12, 2013, 02:09 AM
you place too much value on practicality and total numbers.

30 years ago a springfield 1903 cost $30, now they run the same price as M1s. between all of the different variants there was well over 5 million made.

30 years ago $25 bought you a K98 Mauser, now a non sporterizeds, numbers matching K98 runs over $1500 on a good day.

lets play a little closer to home. 10 years ago a Russian SKS cost a fellow $75 and a sealed spam can cost him $50. now that matched pair hits $1000 easily.

you may see a run of the mill service grade as an impractical, heavy, clunky, low capacity rifle with little aftermarket support anymore but to a person that collects WWII era firearms $650 for a CMP garand is a steal. most people that buy garands don't do it because they are looking for a badass terrorist slayer to show all their friends at the gun range... they buy it because it is an iconic US service arm that served in 2 major conflicts and on into a third in limited fielding. if you want a 30-06 semi auto that can take a scope and kill deer without toting around a 12 pound rifle then go out and buy a remington 7600. if you are looking for a gun to sit alongside grampa's Springfield and the Arisaka that he brought back from the war then get the garand.

ObsidianOne
April 12, 2013, 02:23 AM
I personally love M1 Garands, but I agree, they are indeed quite expensive. Feeding them can't be cheap either, 30-06 isn't a cheap round, especially not in a semi-auto.
I'd say it's more of a novelty, and as previously stated, a piece of history.
I tend to lean more towards the Russian surplus guns (Mosin Nagant, SKS) because they, and their ammo, are more plentiful and inexpensive.
If I could afford one though, you bet your bottom dollar there would be a Garand in my gun safe though :) And an M1 Carbine to keep it company!

SFCRandall
April 12, 2013, 02:46 AM
Don't sell the Garand short just because its old. It's still a badass rifle. Much less expensive to own and shoot than its replacement, the M1A. Surplus 30 06 about half the price of factory .308, an abundance of inexpensive clips instead of expensive and sometimes scarce magazines. I can't think of a realistic scenario where I would feel under armed with a Garand and a couple dozen enblock clips.

Devonai
April 12, 2013, 02:58 AM
I wouldn't feel under-gunned with my M1 as long as I wasn't trying to provide my own covering fire. The weight of the weapon isn't all that far from an M4 with a PEQ-2A, M68, and thirty round magazine anyway.

Welding Rod
April 12, 2013, 03:13 AM
Not enough!

Late production SA Garands were some of the finest mass produced firearms ever built. They are accurate, reliable, have a nice 2-stage tigger, some of the best sights ever put on any rifle, possess significant firepower and long range capability, are easy to take apart, and the buld quality has been really outstanding on all the samples I have examined or owned.

The build quality on the Garand makes the M1A look quite lame, and a like new M1 cost about 50 percent less.

To really appreciate any firearm one needs some time with examples that haven't already been worn out. Worn out M1s never impressed me, but then again neither did worn out M 16s or 1911s.

Personally I have hard time feeling like I would be under gunned with one.

rondog
April 12, 2013, 03:19 AM
My '43 M1 will probably be the last gun that I let slip away when I get too old to shoot anymore. But, if there's room in the box for it to go with me.....

Reloadron
April 12, 2013, 05:31 AM
The M1 Garand is just one of those rifles with a cult like following. I have known people to get one and sell it within a week of shooting it while others add another, then another and then another. They served extremely well in various high power match and competition shooting for years and many still use them in matches. Obviously including the John C Garand matches.

Weighing in around 10 pounds while not practical for some shooters many have an ongoing love affair with the rifle. Just a matter of taste and preferences. Finally, yes, I have a few. :)

Ron

highorder
April 12, 2013, 08:38 AM
If you're curious, heres a ink to the M1 Garand Master List. It's far from complete, and user info can be input by owners themselves. (I listed mine)

There are some interesting notes too.

http://usriflecal30m1.com/MasterList/List.aspx?action=home

Welding Rod
April 12, 2013, 04:34 PM
The M1 Garand is just one of those rifles with a cult like following. I have known people to get one and sell it within a week of shooting it while others add another, then another and then another.

Finally, yes, I have a few. :)

Ron

I bought a Miltec rebuild and didn't like it, primarly because I didn't shoot it much.

Some time later I went to the CMP North Store and bought one. I started shooting it in High Power, Old Soldiers, and M1 Garand Matches. I also started loading for it, and shooting it alot.

I learned the simple trick of making sure the handguards were properly fit and the stock clearanced if the op-rod rubbed. (This is using commercial stocks). Piece of cake.

These guns are easy to shoot accurately. Also they have a very mild recoil impulse.

Once proficient with the manual of arms the gun is barrels of fun.

I have a few now too.

Orlando
April 12, 2013, 06:28 PM
To the OP:

What CMP has in stock now is their higher end rifles
When in stock you can get a Garand for $525 for Feild Grade and $625 for a Service Grade

seasmoke
April 12, 2013, 09:32 PM
30.06 military semi is heavy? huh..

GBExpat
April 12, 2013, 09:43 PM
How many Garands out there?

Easily several millions ... and 15 of them are at my house. :D

G'dale Mike
April 12, 2013, 09:43 PM
I know there is at least one left, it's in my safe.

Ignition Override
April 12, 2013, 09:56 PM
Just one.
Even with a decent group of rifles, the only gun objective is to acquire a second Service Grade Garand, which Will also come from the CMP.

Growing up with weekly shows such as Combat and many movies featuring M-1s, it's impossible for me to imagine the lack of appeal
among the younger guys (includes my son).

tahunua001
April 12, 2013, 10:45 PM
I personally only own one M1.

one thing I noted and I feel obligated to mention THE M1 WAS NOT REPLACED BY THE M1A!!
the M1A is a civilian rifle based on the M14(which did replace the M1) which entered the market long after the M16 was adopted by the US armed forces. are they similar? yes, are the the same? no and anyone that says otherwise is a moron.

now as for semi auto rifles based on the M1, the M1A is a much better option IMO, if you are looking for a utilitarian and practical rifle. 308 gives more reach and more stopping power over an AK, SKS, AR or most other semi autos. the ammo capacity isn't much to sniff at, 20 rounds can do a lot if well placed and against the right targets. it's lighter weight than the M1 and more readily accepts a scope...

BUT...
the M1A would never have existed if not for the M1 garand. removing the front piece of wood making it lighter, modifying the design to take mags instead of en blocs, and conversion to a lighter recoiling round that still has the ability to kill anything in north america are the major differences between the M1A and M1.

many people love their Ruger M77s, and Winchester model 70s and remington model 700s but they wouldn't have ever existed if not for the Mauser which by today's standards is heavy, not particularly accurate, and doesn't readily accept the use of a scope.

one thing that can be said for the M1 is that there is not a single semi auto rifle made today that has the ammo capacity of the M1, that fires a round as powerful as 30-06 and has served any military quite so well for any period of time.

Hacker15E
April 13, 2013, 09:19 AM
I think they are a very well-built, well-designed rifle that fires one of the most popular cartridges on the planet. Add to that the historical value, and it makes it a desirable rifle.

That being said, there are certainly a lot of "gun people" who don't know or appreciate the Garand. Throughout my military career I've had the discussion with tons of gun owners who have no knowledge of, or desire to own, the Garand.

Many of them I've 're-educated' on their responsibility to put down their poodle-shooter, obtain a CMP Garand, and learn real marksmanship...but some of them don't take notice.

Fishbed77
April 13, 2013, 10:01 AM
That being said, there are certainly a lot of "gun people" who don't know or appreciate the Garand.

My guess is that the vast majority of these folks have never fired a Garand.

I can think of few firearms that a more fun to shoot than a Garand. I don't know if it's the ping, the amazingly low recoil for such a powerful cartridge, the wonderful balance, the great sights, or the world-saving history, but everything adds up to an experience that is pure fun.

And this coming from a guy who shoots and enjoys his ARs, AKs, pistols, and a slew of delightful rimfires. The Garand tops them all in the fun department.

.

Caliper_RWVA
April 13, 2013, 10:46 AM
... But they are big, heavy, bulky, hard to mount a scope on, reasonably accurate but nothing special.

...

So they really cannot be a good investment? How many are still around, do you think? I'm guessing several million.


First, why must every rifles value be determined by how easy it is to put glass on it? Heck, most hunting rifles only have an easy system to mount a scope if you only care that the scope is attached firmly. Getting the scope far enough forward for proper shooting form and having some sort of a cheekweld is plenty problematic as well. The Garand has among the best iron sights available, why mess with that?

Second, you say "million" like it is a big number or something... Consider there were nearly 20 million NICS checks run last year. The US population is over 300 million. With around 6 million Garands made there are surely other, more rare rifles out there, but I see many more Rem 700's in the gun shop than Garands.

Besides, it is priceless to take a Garand out to shoot steel with friends who have AR's... plink... plink... plink... CLANG! No mistaking it with the Garand - when you hit something, it don't need hitting again!

Welding Rod
April 13, 2013, 02:30 PM
Come yo think of it, i can only remember seeing one Garand EVER in a gun shop, and except for during hi-power matches, I can't remember ever seeing one on a shooting range.

It may be because I live so far from CMP, out here in the Western states, but they have seemed quite rare to me. They also seem to attract ttention when you bust one out as it seems many people have never seen one in person before.

tahunua001
April 13, 2013, 03:13 PM
I have had the same experience as welding rod. never once have I seen one in a gun shop. I found a single mix master that was beat to hell with mis matched wood in a pawn shop for $700. other than that the only time I see M1s is when there's a gun show in town.

GCBurner
April 14, 2013, 12:54 AM
The CMP has some more that just got repatriated from Turkey through the US Army, and they are in the process of sorting and grading them. According to Orest Michaels at the CMP, they should still have about a 2-year supply of rifles at current sales levels. Assuming new laws don't come along to stop or further restrict their sale.

Havok7416
April 14, 2013, 04:44 AM
My M1 turns heads every time I pull it out - which is often. It is a fantastic piece of history and certainly looks very cool sitting at the range among all the black plastic. If I had to have just one gun, it would be my M1 Garand.

stubbicatt
April 15, 2013, 07:48 PM
I have a friend who is very much a Garand fan. He once told me that he was aware of a test where a couple of guys had to shoot a relatively high number of rounds through each a M14 and a Garand, and each of them cleared the Garand faster than they did changing box magazines on the M14.

I do not know anything more about this subject, but the individual who told me this I find to be a believable man, and so I take it as true.

Do with it as you will.

Caliper_RWVA
April 15, 2013, 11:51 PM
Hmmm.... Let's say that it is 40 rounds. Two 20 round M14/M1A mags vs five enbloc clips.
Or, with 30 round mags we can do four mags vs 15 enbloc clips and have an even number of rounds.

Sounds like a fun race. Only thing is if the final group size is to be measured, I think the M1A may have an advantage. Thinking of firing from field positions as in a CMP or NRA match, I always have to unshoulder the Garand to jam the clip in whereas it seems a mag change on an M1A could be done without breaking position aside from your trigger hand.

housecat
April 17, 2013, 07:17 PM
My interest in the M1 came from my dad. He carried one in New Guinea, the Philippines,and Japan before coming home in 1946. He was so impressed with the rifle that I bought a Winchester from a pawn shop when I became an adult. That was nearly forty years ago, and I have never regretted buying it. It is utterly reliable, more accurate than I am capable of shooting, and is a real pleasure to shoot. It is heavy, but that makes the recoil insignificant. Its historical significance, and the connection with my dad insures that whoever settles my estate may sell the rifle, but I won't.

22250Rem
April 18, 2013, 08:38 PM
One of my late uncles carried a Garand as a Marine in the Pacific Theater during 1944 and '45. Showed him my CMP Garand back in 2007 a couple years before he passed away. It was the first time he'd touched one since the end of WWII. He spoke well of them... with adjectives like "dependable", "tough" and "accurate". I got mine in 1996 from CMP and jokingly refer to it as "the semi-automatic .30-06 that I got from Bill Clinton". Don't shoot it as much as I used to but thankfully I reload .30-06 otherwise it would be too expensive to "feed". Used to shoot some NRA Hi-Power and CMP matches with it and with the correct loads that duplicate the military loadings they are indeed pretty accurate for an old, iron-sighted, battle rifle. Even worked up a hunting load with 150 gr. soft points and one of these years plan to use it in a rifle zone (with a 5 round hunting clip) come deer season.

Cosmoline
April 18, 2013, 09:22 PM
Supply and demand. Far more than 8 million guys would like to have a Garand, I suspect. The attention on WWII starting with Saving Private Ryan seemed to have a direct impact on their price as well. There are surplus arms that are both much rarer and had a much higher percentage of front line use. But they're not Garands.

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